Dunning-kruger effect - why incompetent people think they're amazing

[backseatjuan]

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority comes from the inability of low-ability people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence.[1]

As described by social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."

Studies of the Dunning–Kruger effect usually have been of North Americans, but studies of Japanese people suggest that cultural forces have a role in the occurrence of the effect.

Simply put in the context of online, forums, and social media - people with least amount of knowledge talk the most, while people with a lot of knowledge talk less.

 

[zekko]

I've never heard of this effect, but it demonstrates exactly what I've been thinking all along!
It's never made sense to me how women are attracted to confidence (despite people trying to explain it to me over and over).
And it STILL doesn't make sense to me. And this graph demonstrates why:

Who is the most confident person on that graph? The most incompetent person (well, the second most incompetent person, I guess).
Why would a woman be attracted to the most incompetent person (well, the second most incompetent person)?

 

[Who Dares Win]

I've never heard of this effect, but it demonstrates exactly what I've been thinking all along!
It's never made sense to me how women are attracted to confidence (despite people trying to explain it to me over and over).
And it STILL doesn't make sense to me. And this graph demonstrates why:

Who is the most confident person on that graph? The most incompetent person (well, the second most incompetent person, I guess).
Why would a woman be attracted to the most incompetent person (well, the second most incompetent person)?

Thats a really interesting question, I asked myself the same many times.

My opinion is that confidence usually comes from past success more than from ability therefore a confident man probably signals that he is usually successful.

Basically an average real estate agent which sells house cause he is goodlooking and social rather than skilled, is to the average woman a better option than a great seller that doesnt happen to seel as much cause being ugly sabotage his negotiations.

Also confidence whatever the source of that is, allows men to take initiative and that is mandatory to obtain anything in this world.

Basically the third guy achieves more than the fifth one despite his inferior knowledge in the subject.

 

[zekko]

Thats a really interesting question, I asked myself the same many times.

Really? I thought I was one of the only guys who ever questioned this, or was confused by it. Although there is a common saying on these forums, which goes something like "An attractive guy with confidence is hot, an unattractive guy with confidence is creepy".

Plus I feel like a lot of the time women are responding to over the top demonstrations of confidence, like swagger, which to my mind actually indicates insecurity. So you could just as easily say women are attracted to insecurity (which can't be right, because they're usually repulsed by it).

Also confidence whatever the source of that is, allows men to take initiative and that is mandatory to obtain anything in this world.

I've often said that it makes more sense to me to say that women are attracted to bold action in men, rather than confidence.
Men need a certain amount of confidence to play the male initiator role. Although I remember when I was younger, I had very little confidence, but I would still make the approach - not because I was confident, but because I was driven by hormones lol.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Really? I thought I was one of the only guys who ever questioned this, or was confused by it. Although there is a common saying on these forums, which goes something like "An attractive guy with confidence is hot, an unattractive guy with confidence is creepy".

Plus I feel like a lot of the time women are responding to over the top demonstrations of confidence, like swagger, which to my mind actually indicates insecurity. So you could just as easily say women are attracted to insecurity (which can't be right, because they're usually repulsed by it).


I've often said that it makes more sense to me to say that women are attracted to bold action in men, rather than confidence.
Men need a certain amount of confidence to play the male initiator role. Although I remember when I was younger, I had very little confidence, but I would still make the approach - not because I was confident, but because I was driven by hormones lol.

Agree on both the concepts, Im one of those who doesnt preech confidence as a god unlike many other users on this board.

That quote you put, I share 100% its meaning while many other users dont; I always had the same doubt you have about it.

The point about bold action is interesting, the more I think about it the more I recall dumb guys scoring points after such actions.
The two things may be connected but not necessarily, sometime being confident may even lead to a non action.

I think of confident people not picking up fights while insecure people being willing and ready to do it.

It's an interesting topic, we should open a thread about it but I'm afraid the "confidence rulezzzz" brigade will come and call names whoever disagree.

 

[zekko]

The point about bold action is interesting, the more I think about it the more I recall dumb guys scoring points after such actions.
The two things may be connected but not necessarily, sometime being confident may even lead to a non action.

I think of confident people not picking up fights while insecure people being willing and ready to do it.

The thing about bold action is, IMO, that women tend to be passive, and thus their feminine polarity is naturally drawn to the masculine polarity (of bold action, of taking what you want).

Regarding picking fights, if you were a champion MMA fighter, a judge might well throw the book at you because your body is a weapon, even if the other person started it. That and having nothing to prove might stop someone from picking a fight. Still, a woman might be turned on by a guy's aggressive behavior simply because it's manly, even if it is based in insecurity.

It's not that I don't think confidence can be attractive, I just don't think it's the big #1 end all be all a lot of people promote it to be. You don't hear women say "I like this guy over here, he's confident, but that guy over there looks even more confident".

As you said, TRUE confidence comes from experience. Women appreciate experience, but they can also go for the false front type of behaviors, like c0ckiness, smirking, swagger, and strutting, which are more likely to be based in insecurity.

But true confidence usually presents itself as being very relaxed, because you know you can handle it. A woman isn't going to like it if a guy is nervous and stammering, asking for a date, she wants him to be relaxed and comfortable, which will tend to make her comfortable. But beyond having an easy going approach, that's not a big demonstration.

A certain amount of confidence can help a guy do what he wants to do - but that's more courage than anything, if you don't have the experience.
Also, confidence is more of a masculine trait. Even though a woman who is confident in her sexuality CAN be sexy - it might enable her to "flaunt it" in certain ways, if you know what I mean. But a little of that goes a long way in a woman, and too much can be unappealing.

I remember reading something once where a girl said that after a guy asked her to dance, he "should show his confidence in his dancing". Which I guess means he is comfortable with himself, has the nerve to get up and do it, and is comfortable doing it. I guess I can see that, but it seems more about dancing really than confidence. But I guess such women want a guy who is comfortable in social situations and can dance in a bar or at a wedding or whatever.

 

[Atom Smasher]

My observation is that both genders are attracted to that which they lack.

Women are timid by nature. Therefore they are attracted to boldness. Men are usually repulsed by excessive boldness in a female.

Women move in curves, men move in straight lines. Each is attracted to the others' movements.

Women lack confidence and question themselves to the point of paralysis. Men are decision-makers, therefore women are attracted to this. Confidence is mysterious and is lacking in their wiring, hence their fascination with it.

Women retain a child's voice all their lives. Men's voices deepen. Men find women's voices attractive because they are childlike (implies need to submit and overall weakness), and women are naturally attracted to the male voice because it projects strength and confidence and ability to protect, all of which women lack.

It is human nature to be intrigued and attracted to that which is completely lacking in their wiring. Our Creator made sure that the two genders are two puzzle pieces that fit together just right, each acting as a catalyst to create a complete "couple". It is mankind who through nonsensical social experiments, mis-shapes the puzzle pieces so they no longer fit together.

As the old but true saying goes, nature abhors a vacuum. We are greatly attracted to that which we lack.

 

[zekko]

Women move in curves, men move in straight lines. Each is attracted to the others' movements.

That's an interesting statement, I've never heard that one before. I'll have to remember that one.

I've also noticed that women tend to be indecisive, at least more so than men. Generally speaking, anyway. I also see confidence as a masculine trait, but women will also tell other women that they need to be confident to be sexy, that there's nothing sexier than confidence.

I still think that a lot of what women are attracted to is not really confidence, but something else, whatever that might be (like bold action). As for decisiveness, a guy may not be confident in his decision necessarily, but he is more likely to pick a direction and go with it anyway.

But again, check out that graph. The most confident guy is the most incompetent. It reminds me of another saying "He knows just enough to be dangerous".

 

[speed dawg]

But again, check out that graph. The most confident guy is the most incompetent. It reminds me of another saying "He knows just enough to be dangerous".

That first peak of confidence is arrogance, not confidence.

You had it right earlier. Arrogance can contain many of the same qualities as confidence. Fake it til you make it, or whatever. Insecure girls can easily be fooled by idiot boys, many just want some excitement. As a woman's confidence grows, so do the desired qualities in the men that she is attracted towards.

Beyond that, I would default to Atom Smasher's post.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

We are greatly attracted to that which we lack.

This must be why zombies are always chasing the living...

(but why not the other way around?)

 

[zekko]

This must be why zombies are always chasing the living...

(but why not the other way around?)

One has to be the pursuer, the other the pursued. Too bad they're trying to make pursuing illegal (but only if they don't like the pursuer).

 

[Atom Smasher]

According to Gillette, this is so.