Do 10s need more comfort?

[OnTheWayUp]

Hey guys,

Last night I went to a party with a group of friends which included this new girl who's just arrived in my city. She is as close to a 10 as I've ever seen. Absolutely stunning, long blonde hair, perfect figure - but not at all stuck-up and makes good conversation.

It was a very interesting evening game-wise. She arrived at the party at about 11pm and left (with me and others) about 6:30am. Between that time, she barely left my side. We talked and talked and talked, most often just the two of us, sometimes with other third wheels as well.

In conversation, she was very receptive to my advances. She was flirty, engaged in lots of banter, created a few in jokes (often a sign of mutual attraction in my experience) and made lots of subtle sexual jokes. She followed me round rather than the other way round. There were times when I either wanted to include other people in the conversation or go home - she was resistent to both these things. She also isolated herself with me on a couch (her suggestion, not mine) at the club we went to. Every girl that has ever pulled this move on me has ended up in my bed. The way she was talking to me, looking at me, and staying with me throughout the whole evening suggests high interest. She even did the odd submissive look where she meets your gaze, bites her lip, and then looks down at the ground. Huge IOI in my experience, and very sexy. She gave me several verbal compliments as well.

Here's the odd thing: she was very unreceptive to kino and physical escalation. I made progress throughout the night with a little bit of incidental touching, playfully hitting her with a funny cushion we were talking about etc. But it was a real struggle, more so than any other girl that I've been with. Several times when I hit her leg playfully to mark the high point of a conversation (something I do a lot to great success with other girls), she physically recoiled. She said many times that she doesn't like being touched. Dancing with her was a massive struggle. I was able to pull her in to a normal club-style dance with sheer persistence. She said "I don't dance with strangers" - I said "too bad, I do." I had most success combining an intellectual topic with compliments about her level of English and background and physical escalation.

Any explanations of her behaviour?

-It's her culture (she is Turkish)
-She finds me engaging as a friend, but not romantically
-She is sexually inexperienced, maybe even a virgin, and needs time and comfort. This is how it felt to me.
-Gaming 10s is different to gaming other girls, as they can afford to really get to know the guy. They know they have near-infinite options, so vet each guy very carefully.
-She sees me as bf material, and wants to build things up slowly.
-She knows I have a gf (I didn't tell her this, but maybe a friend did), and doesn't want to cause a scene.
-We will work together from Monday.

Cheers SS.

 

[csycpr]

It could be any and all of those things, really. Not much of a help, I know, but I guess you "want answers" because there you were, so close yet so far. Only thing I'd add to your suggestions is if this girl is way hotter than any girl you're used to getting maybe you weren't as much as yourself as when you succeed with other girls.

Also, I doubt it's going to help to generalize from your experience with this girl to all 10s out there.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Of course her religion and backround have a part but this part decrease proportionally to the distance from her country and family.
Does the meeting happened far from it? in that case dont bet too much on this religion thing.

Regarding her avoiding physical contact and not reciprocating I use it as a bench mark to distinguish between girls attracted to me and willing to get physical and attention wh0res ot girls with an agenda.

Considering all this data I would opt that she is simply trying to find a support for her new working experience, she probably considers you a competant man which would be very useful to her now that you are starting to work togheter.

She is probably more interested in protection and support than sexual intimacy but it could be also that she wants to take things slowly and before taking a final choice to see how things proceed at work and with you.

The fact that she is good looking means that the amount of tricks and sh1t tests she could provide is much highter than any average girl, keep in mind also that women in turkey are much more subjected to pick-up attempt and such, turkish guys are no pussies when it comes of try to get a girl.
So dont rely too much on those behaviour she shown, certain girls are oscar material.

The suggestion I can give you is to keep doing what you are doing but keep your game and guard up, dont let yourself be bullsh1tted and be much more vigilant on this girl than usual, as obviously trust your gut.

ps. in my experience turkish girls are very forward and proactive once far from country and family, dont believe girls give a fvck about religion/culture if they are not forced to, hypergamy doesnt care.

 

[Burroughs]

if johnny depp talked to her she'd fvck him within 3 hours.

'building slowly' only applies to normal dudes :yes:

 

[StepItUp]

I am Turkish living in Australia and born here, blonde hair turkish girl must of been dyed .

I have cousins and they are not slutty at all, for that reason she may actually genuinely might not put out? She could be a virgin, I know for a fact my cousin at least one would be very wierded out if someone touched them even if they liked them especially early on.

Kino won't make them not want you, just they won't be receptive meaning you may think things aren't working. You must rememeber everyone is different including her, different horses for differents courses.

Give me a bit more information and/or keep me updated.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Of course her religion and backround have a part but this part decrease proportionally to the distance from her country and family.
Does the meeting happened far from it? in that case dont bet too much on this religion thing.

Regarding her avoiding physical contact and not reciprocating I use it as a bench mark to distinguish between girls attracted to me and willing to get physical and attention wh0res ot girls with an agenda.

Considering all this data I would opt that she is simply trying to find a support for her new working experience, she probably considers you a competant man which would be very useful to her now that you are starting to work togheter.

She is probably more interested in protection and support than sexual intimacy but it could be also that she wants to take things slowly and before taking a final choice to see how things proceed at work and with you.

The fact that she is good looking means that the amount of tricks and sh1t tests she could provide is much highter than any average girl, keep in mind also that women in turkey are much more subjected to pick-up attempt and such, turkish guys are no pussies when it comes of try to get a girl.
So dont rely too much on those behaviour she shown, certain girls are oscar material.

The suggestion I can give you is to keep doing what you are doing but keep your game and guard up, dont let yourself be bullsh1tted and be much more vigilant on this girl than usual, as obviously trust your gut.

ps. in my experience turkish girls are very forward and proactive once far from country and family, dont believe girls give a fvck about religion/culture if they are not forced to, hypergamy doesnt care.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, thanks for your insights. She is indeed much more socially aware than other girls I know, and I felt myself getting tested left right and centre, mostly for congruence. I asked her about both Turkish dating culture and her religion, as both of these were ways of explaining her behaviour that I thought of during our conversation. She is not religious, and lives far away from home. She did mention how she has to be wary of aggressive Turkish guys hitting on her, as being a blonde hot Turkish girl is pretty rare. But tbh this could just as easily have been a typical female power grab along the lines of "look at me, I get so much male attention, I'm higher value than you." You get that a lot with the hotter girls- that's something universal rather than just Turkish culture.

"Regarding her avoiding physical contact and not reciprocating I use it as a bench mark to distinguish between girls attracted to me and willing to get physical and attention wh0res ot girls with an agenda."

^^ Could you break this theory down for me, not quite sure I understand.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

I am Turkish living in Australia and born here, blonde hair turkish girl must of been dyed .

I have cousins and they are not slutty at all, for that reason she may actually genuinely might not put out? She could be a virgin, I know for a fact my cousin at least one would be very wierded out if someone touched them even if they liked them especially early on.

Kino won't make them not want you, just they won't be receptive meaning you may think things aren't working. You must rememeber everyone is different including her, different horses for differents courses.

Give me a bit more information and/or keep me updated.

Yeah, I think sometimes we lose track on SS that there are many different types of girl. Whilst the general principles of attraction are the same, the art of seduction is tailoring your actions to the individual girl.

She's half German, so that explains the blonde hair, haha. She said she had a bf for two years when she was 20 (now 23), so she's had some experience of men before. But maybe her and her ex stopped short of sex? Who knows. What other information do you want me to provide you with man? And can you give me any more insights into Turkish dating culture?

 

[nismo-4]

Do you realize that when a woman wants to take it slow, you're not her most desirable option? Do you realize that women always have options?

10's need more comfort? Here's my verdict. If you're her most desirable option, all of that religious sh*t and cultural norms won't really matter. A woman who wants to get physical with you will find a way to do so. Not the case here.

She's trying to friendzone you through teasing. In other words, a Turkish attention wh0re. Judge nismo's ruling.

Case closed.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

-It's her culture (she is Turkish)

Is she Muslim? Many Turkish people are Muslim. Islam is a VERY conservative religion. If she grew up on traditional values, there is great shame in the idea of being a "slut". It could be tightly integrated into her psyche. Find out more on these grounds.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Do you realize that when a woman wants to take it slow, you're not her most desirable option? Do you realize that women always have options?

10's need more comfort? Here's my verdict. If you're her most desirable option, all of that religious sh*t and cultural norms won't really matter. A woman who wants to get physical with you will find a way to do so. Not the case here.

She's trying to friendzone you through teasing. In other words, a Turkish attention wh0re. Judge nismo's ruling.

Case closed.

I thought you might get in on this thread, nismo

Yes and yes to your questions. She's extremely attractive and, at 23, in her prime as a woman, so obviously there are other guys hitting on her apart from me.

I feel these days I've got enough experience to know whether a girl is leading me on or not. I've dealt with enough attention hos to be able to sniff it out quickly- I even had one mess me around last week. A pattern typical of an attention ho is displaying the same flirtatiousness to everyone, and giving lots of sexual attention without actual intimacy. This girl spent the whole evening isolated with me. She's into me, I'm pretty sure of that. You can tell if you're friendzoned because of the vibe between you and the girl- I don't sense that here. There's just something holding her back, and I'm not sure what that is.

I think it stands to reason that an extremely attractive girl would want to vet guys more extensively than others. She knows that guys want her, and how easy it is for her to have sex. She wants to make sure that the guy she gets intimate with has as much sexual value as her. Because she has so much value herself, she can afford to play the waiting game longer than most. It's a way of screening out the guys who put on a front of gimmicky PUA tricks to try and get in her pants, so that she ends up with a guy whose personality she knows to be genuine. Not white knight genuine, but a genuine manly man of real value. I felt all the time like she was testing me for congruency to make sure that everything I said added up. She knows she can wait before getting physical. Put yourself in her position- I think I'd do the same.

 

[SeymourCake]

Don't treat 10s any more different than 9s, 8s, 7s, 6s, 5s, 4s, 3s, 2s, 1s.

 

[Who Dares Win]

"Regarding her avoiding physical contact and not reciprocating I use it as a bench mark to distinguish between girls attracted to me and willing to get physical and attention wh0res ot girls with an agenda."

^^ Could you break this theory down for me, not quite sure I understand.

The concept of using physical contact as a bench mark goes in pair with the one regarding evalueting a woman according to her action and not her words.

When Im close with a girl like your case and she seems to be interested in me I proceed to isolate and escalate (its more complicate but lets make it short), at that point I see if her casual touches or flirting are a bait or an invite to take lead.

I found out in 100% of the cases that girls who are interested in be intimate with me allow my escalation (the speed depends from girl to girl) and none of them come out with excuses as long as I have provided a safe environment.

Conversely girls looking for an ego boost (like getting a desired guy and the reject him) or for some attention from a high status male simply start the process of flirting but block any attempt to escalate beyond certain points, attention wh0res sometime allow you to kiss them on their lips but not continuously and in most of the cases not even that.

They come out with the most creative excuses like that she takes her time to make sure you dont wanna use her, to the fact that she just came out of a relationship or that she is shy or whatever.

A girl which is interested and wants to get physical will not stop you or even dare to establish a escalation schedule like verbally telling you that you have to date them at least for a month before doing anything.
Those are baits for suckers, never underestimate tricks women know, many girls are oscar material they could fake interest like pro actresses and fake real reason for "keeping it light" once you try to close the deal.

I give you a suggestion, no matter how game aware you are a girl who knows how to manipulate will always have an edge mostly because she create certain emotions on you which will weaken your critical thinking and will, in this case always ask for feedbacks.
I do the same as you can see in this board,despite getting ONs commonly and have no problem approaching girls I still keep in mind that and come here for feedbacks for uninvested guys.

I can tell you with total certainty that a girl who wants you would do anything and take risks, she would lie to her family and friends to make it happen.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Don't treat 10s any more different than 9s, 8s, 7s, 6s, 5s, 4s, 3s, 2s, 1s.

A little bit too simplistic here. You're right in the sense that you shouldn't put the more attractive girls on a pedestal and supplicate to them. Just because a girl is hot doesn't mean she should become the centre of your world. Just because a girl is hot doesn't mean you should allow her to control you or emotionally abuse you. If a girl cheats on you or flakes on you more than once without a good excuse, you shouldn't give her another chance just because she is a 9.

On the other hand, it is self-evident that it takes a different level of effort to sleep with a 10 than it does to sleep with 1. For those who like to fvck fatties, it is sufficient to give them the attention that their more attractive friends take for granted, throw in a few compliments, and escalate physically. The average girls will take a bit more effort: they require more charm, the man to be better looking, more socially dominant etc. It stands to reason due to simple economics: they are more in demand, so they in turn can demand more from a man. The best quality girls demand the highest level of frame control, looks, social status, social proof. You have to show her that you're not just an average guy, whereas the average guy with a bit of game can pull a 5 without too much difficulty. Men of higher value also expect more from their women, the only difference being that attractive men typically care much more about the quality of woman they form a LTR with, whereas attractive women care more about the quality of man they get intimate with.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Is she Muslim? Many Turkish people are Muslim. Islam is a VERY conservative religion. If she grew up on traditional values, there is great shame in the idea of being a "slut". It could be tightly integrated into her psyche. Find out more on these grounds.

Surprisingly she's not, no- she's a secular Buddhist. That said, having lived in Turkey for a while, she would obviously have been surrounded by plenty of conservative-thinking people. Perhaps some of that has rubbed off on her.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Anyone else have any ideas as to what I should do?

 

[nismo-4]

Remember these things.

1. She always has options.
2. She can have a boyfriend at the drop of a dime.
3. She knows the power of her beauty.
4. She has orbiters.
5. She's in high demand, so she can demand a better man.
6. She's the gatekeeper to you having a relationship and sex with her.

Therefore, she's long decided what status you have with her and how far you're gonna get. She rejected your physical advances. Not good. Try again, and if she rejects, you eject.

Also, I hope you're spinning more plates. Go for girls who have more interest in you. Not attention wh0res.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Remember these things.

1. She always has options.
2. She can have a boyfriend at the drop of a dime.
3. She knows the power of her beauty.
4. She has orbiters.
5. She's in high demand, so she can demand a better man.
6. She's the gatekeeper to you having a relationship and sex with her.

Therefore, she's long decided what status you have with her and how far you're gonna get. She rejected your physical advances. Not good. Try again, and if she rejects, you eject.

Also, I hope you're spinning more plates. Go for girls who have more interest in you. Not attention wh0res.

On 1-4 I agree completely.

5 and 6 are too black and white, and set men up with a kind of inferiority complex which is unhealthy at the best of times, all the more so with the most attractive girls.

Yes, she is in high demand, which means she can demand a lot from a man. But hey, I happen to think myself quite a catch too, and I also expect a lot from girls I see for more than just one night of fun. With a healthy ethos of self-improvement, there's no reason why I should't see myself as that better man you mention.

6 gives her waaaaaaaaay too much power. Way too much, man. It takes two to tango: it is one of the most frequent misconceptions that one or other party controls everything in the seduction process. Humans are not bodies with no agency; they are living beings with a say in their own actions. Yes, a girl can decide to reject your advances. But she can only do this if you as a man have decided that she's worth your advances in the first place. Yes, sex is normally a woman's favourite card to play. But men should realise that it is very often them who have more of a say in when to transition to a relationship.

Your point about women deciding how far they want to go with a man very quickly is half-right. Women will know whether they see a man as a sexual option within a few minutes of meeting them - there are studies floating around proving this. But women are typically not like men, who will sleep with someone of the opposite sex they find attractive at the soonest opportunity. They often require comfort and an emotional connection as well as attraction, and the amount of time it takes to create these feelings will depend on the individual girl. You can't reasonably expect every girl who is attracted to you to respond to your physical escalation immediately.

I actually have a gf at the moment, so this girl is just a bit of fun. I like the challenge of attracting new types of girls, so I'm going to take your advice to keep perservering. I'm getting good vibes from her.

 

[floydb25]

This sounds like an attention *****, but also someone who wants you to prove your worth to her. As in, youre not good enough to "touch" the holy princess. But maybe if you wait around, jump through hoops, etc. She sounds like the typical high class girl.

I disagree with your not being stuck up assessment. Youre thinking of the term snobby. She might be easy going, shy, pleasant, nice, etc, but that does NOT mean shes not conceited, stuck up, believing to be better than everyone else, having high standards, viewing herself as the prize, etc. This just comes naturally with being extremely attractive.

Shes used to getting her way, so of course shes going to follow you around, flirt, not want you to leave, etc. Thats how they act - you cant leave if theyre talking to you, your attention must be on her (not your friends), you cant leave her side to be alone for a minute, and heaven forbid SHE is left alone by you... Doesnt work that way. Everything must be on her terms, but what happens when YOU want something, or you try to advance and escalate? You get rejected - only to have them come right back - until your services are no longer required. Better get used to that. This is all typical behavior of a stuck up hottie.

The main thing is, these girls KNOW theyre attractive and in-demand, and can act like this (or like complete *****es, which she may be hiding from you). Guys like you pedestalize, over-analyze, assume the best, and excuse all rejections and poor behaviors. This is what happens when you fall in love with a vision after getting some attention from a hottie. Which is what enables this behavior. They know this; theyre not stupid. She knows shes of high class, and probably does this **** every day, everywhere, with everyone. All it takes is some conversation, attention, and flirting, and she has guys wrapped around her finger. Then she decides who's good enough, makes demands, expects everything on her terms, pouts and whines...

****ing hotties, man. Theyre all high maintenance, stuck up, and entitled in some form. People (men) mistake this for being hurt, afraid, not ready, etc. I did the same thing for YEARS, and it always ended the same. It was always about THEM. All of that analyzing, excusing, sympathizing, etc for nothing. And yes, they do get around and know the game. They have hot friends, go to parties, date constantly, blah blah.

Whatever. Keep your hotties. Done with all that noise. Its all about the 7s, *****es. Woo Woo! :woo:

 

[Bossman90]

Going after a ten is no different than another girl. The only thing you need to not do is put her on a pedestal. That will push her away. Also, in my experience with women from other countries is that they have not grown up with a lot of the stuff we have, meaning that if you try and bust on her with a bugs bunny joke she may not understand it.

 

[Bossman90]

A little bit too simplistic here. You're right in the sense that you shouldn't put the more attractive girls on a pedestal and supplicate to them. Just because a girl is hot doesn't mean she should become the centre of your world. Just because a girl is hot doesn't mean you should allow her to control you or emotionally abuse you. If a girl cheats on you or flakes on you more than once without a good excuse, you shouldn't give her another chance just because she is a 9.

On the other hand, it is self-evident that it takes a different level of effort to sleep with a 10 than it does to sleep with 1. For those who like to fvck fatties, it is sufficient to give them the attention that their more attractive friends take for granted, throw in a few compliments, and escalate physically. The average girls will take a bit more effort: they require more charm, the man to be better looking, more socially dominant etc. It stands to reason due to simple economics: they are more in demand, so they in turn can demand more from a man. The best quality girls demand the highest level of frame control, looks, social status, social proof. You have to show her that you're not just an average guy, whereas the average guy with a bit of game can pull a 5 without too much difficulty. Men of higher value also expect more from their women, the only difference being that attractive men typically care much more about the quality of woman they form a LTR with, whereas attractive women care more about the quality of man they get intimate with.

Agreed, just don't talk to 1,2,3's or 4's.