DIESEL:focus more on the LIFT or the WEIGHT?

[sstype]

I read an article on gaining-mass.com that "cheating" will not help you bulk up at all. When I say "cheating" I mean;

-Using your arms to lift bench press
-Bending your back at all during any excercise
-Bending your posture while doing bar curls

So, I decided to give it a try. I cut down the weight I did my bench press from 165 lbs to 135 lbs. I slowly did each rep, BUT instead of focusing on getting the bar up as quickly as I could, I just focused on letting my chest do ALL the work.

Needless to say, I was sore as hell when I finished doing this.

Now, even though I did less weight, It still felt heavy as hell going on the 6th rep. I focused on my chest, using only my arms as SUPPORT.

DIESEL, do you see any benefits of this?
I know lifting a lot of weight may satsify your ego....but does it really provide any real results if you cheat?

 

[sfalexi]

I know it's addressed to diesel, but I'm going to answer my view anyway.

lighter weights and perfect form is better than heavier weights and sloppy form. It's safer, and works the muscles better.

I can't stand when you see people doing bench press with a bunch of 45s on each side, and they literally almost bounce the thing off their chest. That's how you hurt yourself. Cause one day the stress of the quick down coupled with trying to reverse its direction instantaneously is gonna **** you up.

It's much better (and safer) to do lower weight, but lower and raise it slowly. I say take about four seconds per rep. Two seconds down, two seconds up. It'll look like less weight on the bar, but it'll provide better results in a safer manner.

Alexi

 

[M2k961]

Perfect form definitely is more important than weight. Get the form right, then deal with weight. I just realized today that I wasn't keeping my elbows in while benching and as a result took stress off my chest - BIG NO-NO!

 

[madgame]

I think Diesel has been gone for a long time now hasnt he?

Anyways..I think mass gaining wise it doesnt really matter too much. Say u do barbell curls with 100lbs or whateva and u can do 7 reps with PERFECT form. Now do 7 reps with 105lbs but not completely perfect form...I think both ways will work your muscle out pretty much as intensively as the other way unless its some exercise where you can cheat by using some other muscle more thant it should be...however I dont really see how you can NOT use your arms if you bench press..and I dont really see how you can cheat yourself and bench more weight by sticking your ellbows out?! If I had my ellbows sticking out while benchpressing I think the weight i could bench would be lower not higher...

Anyways. In my opinion you think about this part of working out too much (its no wonder though with all those rumours going on and everything...so the fact that u do research and anaylze stuff like this is definetly a plus all in all). Ive always used..lets say "pretty good" form...I just did/do the movement Im supposed to with the bar (and neither do it specifically slowly or fast...just at a normal CONTROLLED pace) and keep trying to increase the weight i lift as often as possible (after increasing the reps with a certain weight first of course)...but I will never cheat myself by leaning back during curls or anything like that just to think to myself im able to lift more weight...cause id know it wasnt real progress anyways. Oh and my bench press and other lifts have increased significantly ever since i started working out (that way)

 

[Grandor]

Originally posted by sfalexi
I can't stand when you see people doing bench press with a bunch of 45s on each side, and they literally almost bounce the thing off their chest.

+ 1.
Technique comes first.

As for 'using your arms' in bench?
In Bench all you need to do is take it easy and keep the bar level.
There is essentially no way to cheat bench press except for going to quickly (which will just **** the rest of your workout, so even that isnt much).
The fact is bench is one of the most natural excercises - its why so many people love it. Your body is fully supported, no strain anywhere- except on your Triceps, Chest and sometimes Wrists.

 

[sstype]

good advice.
its amazing how i was able to feel my chest burning for once.

my technique was always good, but I was doing it too quickly, which was not getting me results

 

[prosemont]

Diesel hasn't been on these boards for months.

 

[madgame]

Maybe thats because hes too busy playing ball for the heat now?

Anyways..Diesel come back I need u!!

 

[semag]

What you don't realize is that the heavy weight advocated with these posts is heavy weight WITH GOOD FORM.

If you don't have good form, lower the weight until you do. When your stabalizer muscles become stronger, it will increase the amount of weight you can do while maintaining good form, until you reach a point where you can do lots of weight with good form.

Never has anyone said to sacrifice form for high weight, but that doesn't mean you should pvssy out and never go for high weights Just get yourself to the ability to do that heavy weight.

As Ronnie Coleman once said, "Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, ain't no one wanna lift no heavy ass weight."

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Originally posted by sstype
I read an article on gaining-mass.com that "cheating" will not help you bulk up at all. When I say "cheating" I mean;

-Using your arms to lift bench press
-Bending your back at all during any excercise
-Bending your posture while doing bar curls

So, I decided to give it a try. I cut down the weight I did my bench press from 165 lbs to 135 lbs. I slowly did each rep, BUT instead of focusing on getting the bar up as quickly as I could, I just focused on letting my chest do ALL the work.

Needless to say, I was sore as hell when I finished doing this.

Now, even though I did less weight, It still felt heavy as hell going on the 6th rep. I focused on my chest, using only my arms as SUPPORT.

DIESEL, do you see any benefits of this?
I know lifting a lot of weight may satsify your ego....but does it really provide any real results if you cheat?

Cheating helps to a certain extent, as long as you minimize it, and know exactly "how" to cheat. Bad form is not the same thing as cheating. And that's the problem...most of time you'll probably be just executing the exercises using bad form, fool yourself into thinking you're properly "cheating," and end up hurting yourself in the long run.

I wouldn't suggest cheating. Continue to focus on correct form, and on hitting the exact muscles you're trying to work, instead of trying to lift the most weight.

 

[sstype]

Re: Re: DIESEL:focus more on the LIFT or the WEIGHT?

Originally posted by WORKEROUTER
Cheating helps to a certain extent, as long as you minimize it, and know exactly "how" to cheat. Bad form is not the same thing as cheating. And that's the problem...most of time you'll probably be just executing the exercises using bad form, fool yourself into thinking you're properly "cheating," and end up hurting yourself in the long run.

I wouldn't suggest cheating. Continue to focus on correct form, and on hitting the exact muscles you're trying to work, instead of trying to lift the most weight.

Yeah, i know bad form is out of the question. That is dangerous.

But cheating your muscles on normal basis will only result in minimal gains

As i mentioned numerous times earlier, when I bench pressed, I would always keep good form, however I let my arms do a great deal of the work. I used the momentum to complete the lift. Now I am totally concentrating on the concentric (positive) and the eccentric (negative) movements of the lift.
My arms are only providing minimal assistance, and then I am contracting and squeezing my chest to get the full range of the muscle.

This way I stimulate my muscles more, which is necessary for growth.

I believe that article I read stressed the importance of being more a body builder and less a "weight lifter"

Any other comments or additonal feedback would be appreciated