Diesel-4-8 rep philosophy?

[Lost]

You say that you should have 4-8 reps...
and go real heavy
but everytime i go heavy i dont slowly start to overload/fatigue...
its not like i go rep 5 is startin to get hard.. 6 harder.. 7 real hard.. 8 last possible one i can do ..
its more like.... 1,2,3,4 and then i have to stop all of a sudden..wheras the ones before it didnt seem hard.. and it wasny slowly progressing up.. it was just an immediate stop..?

whatsup with that?

for gaining mass wouldnt u suggest to maybe go a little lighter so u can get around 8 reps while theyre slowly progressing up??

please inform my confused self.

 

[DIESEL]

that's why you keep a training diary.

In your example, it seems as if the weight is too heavy. Take whatever you did in your example. Take 10-15% off the weight and try again.

The training diary takes away any guesswork, after you work out the initial kinks finding where your "strength curve" is at for each exercise.

D

 

[Lost]

do u want it to be getting progressively harder for each rep every week? or just one week out of a month or wut..? isnt that training to failure?

 

[DIESEL]

Originally posted by Lost
do u want it to be getting progressively harder for each rep every week? or just one week out of a month or wut..? isnt that training to failure?

Why do you insist on making things difficult for yourself?

If you are going to do my routine - JUST FUKKIN' DO IT TO THE LETTER - and stop worrying about bullshyt about training to failure and all that other crap.

You want to grow? YOU HAVE TO OVERLOAD THE MUSCLE. YOU OVERLOAD THE MUSCLE BY PUSHING IT TO ITS LIMIT. SOME MAY CALL IT 'FAILURE' - whatever, I call it 'INDUCING GROWTH' the one week of down time you will have between workouts is more than enough time for recovery. And the week off every 8 weeks will erase any concern those CNS wankers would caution you about.

Is it crystal now?

and to answer your question: yes, ideally each set is progressively harder. again: YOU NEED A TRAINING DIARY TO REMOVE ALL THE GUESSWORK AND INSURE THAT YOU ARE NOT REPEATING YOUR WORKOUTS.

D

 

[Lost]

why r u so mad damn.

the reason im asking is because ive tried **** before and i barely ever get any gains.. and no im not saying o its been a day and im not bigger.. im saying its been a year and im not bigger.

normally it just goes 1 easy, 2 easy, 3 easy, 4easy, 5 easy, 6 cant do it.. or something like that.. it hasnt been getting progressively harder.. so im wondering if im putting ot much weight or what the problem is.. cuz im not getting gains.

 

[NMMWCR]

Originally posted by Lost
why r u so mad damn.
im saying its been a year and im not bigger.

Mass isn't built using a bar. It is built using your fork. If you aren't gaining, you aren't eating enough.

Eat more, work harder on leg days (leg days being 3 20 rep sets of squat, deadlift, and legpress) The rest will come easy. Believe me, diet and legs are the hard parts. How much you bench doesn't mean much.

 

[DIESEL]

Originally posted by Lost
why r u so mad damn.

the reason im asking is because ive tried **** before and i barely ever get any gains.. and no im not saying o its been a day and im not bigger.. im saying its been a year and im not bigger.

normally it just goes 1 easy, 2 easy, 3 easy, 4easy, 5 easy, 6 cant do it.. or something like that.. it hasnt been getting progressively harder.. so im wondering if im putting ot much weight or what the problem is.. cuz im not getting gains.

I'm not mad - it's just that you ask a lot of silly questions. Think first, then ask.

1. You have not been on my program for a year. It is obvious from the questions you post, that your training knowledge is limited, at best. Thus, throw out what you did last year.. it was probably hella wrong on many levels.

2. I don't even understand the point of this comment. What are you expecting? You fail at 6 - that's a perfect weight. And?

3. "I'm not getting gains" - yes, how long have you been doing my program? A week, two... and what do you consider gains. 20 lbs. in a month ? Wake the fukk up! 20 lbs. in a YEAR is considered a good year.

 

[Lost]

dude.. i get gains in a year that ppl get in 2 months.

im saying i thought its supposed to get progressively harder.. not EVERY rep is EASY then one of them is impossible all of a sudden.. i want to make sure im training right and that im not doing something thats not gonna get me gains.. dieting is rather easy, as i have started bulking andi just eat every 2 hrs high in protein and carbs and have been watching my diet.. even tho ppl tell me to eat all this crap i still stick to healthy.

 

[Metaphor]

See Lost I'm not the only one that can get annoyed by some of the questions. It's alright though, you're a cool guy.

 

[Lost]

its not that difficult of a question..

its not like i get to 8 reps and i cant go
i get to like 4 or 5 and cant go.. but all the ones before it were easy.. u dudes r missin the point of the question

 

[chim_chim]

If you want to get more reps before failure, do a little less weight. It's that simple.

 

[anakin]

Let's me attempt at clarifying what you said:

You can do the 1st 5 reps fairly easily and then suddenly you fail on the sixth. You're wondering why you fail so quickly on the sixth after doing the first five so easily??

1) How is your breathing during the reps?? I speculate that maybe you don't breath so well while undertaking the exercises.

2) Do you have a training partner? Perhaps you can do another rep with some slight help ... if you don't have a training partner perhaps you should get one so you can strain out another one.

3) Do you undertake most of your exercises using free weights as opposed to machines??

If you're doing everything according to plan, including keeping a good diet and training frequently, you just need one more thing - PATIENCE. Diesel's plan does work..cheers bro.

 

[Lost]

yes...
i think it used to be like i would slowly get tired out.. like each rep would be harder.. bt now theyre all the same and then 1 of them is just impossible for some reaosn... and i dont usually get up high.. its usually around 4-6 i guess

 

[Alpha male Female Catcher]

I don't see what the problem is here. I experience the sudden drop in strength after so many reps too. For example for bench press I'm curently doing 4 sets of 4 reps with 140kg (308lb). The first four reps seem like I could do more (and indeed I can if I want to do lower reps) but after the forth rep (or sometimes the third on a bad week) my strength suddenly dies. I experience the sudden death phenomenon with bicep curls and other exercises too. I know what you are talking about and it is quite normal (for me any way).

The reason for it is not a mystery however. Not to me any way. The physiology I learnt in P.E. class some 20 years ago explains it at any rate (though for all I know PE theories have changed by now). What I was taught (those 20 years ago) was that your muscles contain 3 different energy systems (ie chemical pathways for converting glucose or what ever into energy the muscle can use - terms like ATP and krebs cycle come to mind but I can't remember the details). Your muscles also contain two fiber types fast twitch and slow twitch.

The three energy systems are known as the phosphate energy system (at least it was back then, probably called something else now), the anerobic energy system and the aerobic energy system.

Aerobic Energy System: The aerobic energy system goes through the whole Krebs cycle to convert fat or glucose or whatever (don't remember exactly) into the ATP (Adenosine Tri Phosphate) that the muscles use for energy (the muscles are powered by converting ATP into ADP - Adenosine Di Phosphate). This aerobic energy sytem which as the name suggests involves reaction with oxygen, goes through the whole Krebs cycle and is extremly efficient and produces no or very little waste products such as lactic acid (its only products are water and carbon dioxide I think). It is however a slow process (compared to the other two systems I will describe). The bottom line is that your aerobic energy sytem can power your muscles for hours on end thanks to the fact that it produces little lactic acid. It is the system long distance runners rely on. However because it is a slow process it doesn't produce much power compared to the other two energy systems. The aerobic energy sytem is the system that takes over when your enaerobic and phosphate energy systems have failed.

Anearobic Energy System: As the name implies this system involves a chemical pathway of reactions that does not involve reaction with oxygen. It short circuits parts of the Krebs cycle by not involving oxygen in the reaction. The advantage of the anearobic short circuit is that it is a much quicker reaction than the aerobic one and as a result gives your muscles much more power in their contraction than the aerobic one does. The disadvantage of the oxygen-less short circuit of the Krebs cycle is that lactic acid is produced as a waste product. The lactic acid accumulates in the muscle and greatly reduces its ability to contract. So this system only runs for a limited time. The bottom line is that your anerobic energy sytem can only power your muscles for one to five mins (can't remeber the exact figures but it was something like this). It is the system 400meter and 800meter runners rely on. The anaerobic energy sytem takes over after the phosphate energy system has failed (or you may start in it if you aren't pushing your muscles hard enough to activate the phosphate system).

Phosphate energy system: This system is the fastest and most powerful system of the lot. It doesn't involve converting glucose into ATP and infact doesn't involve the Krebs cycle at all but just involves the muscles using the ATP already stored in them. The down side is that your phosphate energy system only lasts for around 10secs depending on your training. The up side is that unlike the anerobic energy system and like the aerobic energy system your phosphate energy system doesn't produce waste prodcuts like lactic acid and so it doesn't gunk your muscles up with lactic acid. The result is that after a 3 to 5 minute rest - the time it takes your muscles to replenish their ATP stores (not to be confused with glycogen stores) your muscles are ready to use the phosphate energy system all over again. In other words you can if you have five minutes rest between sets pretty much use your phosphate energy system all day even if it only lasts for 10sec at a time (which is why I can spend an hour bench pressing 3 to 4 reps of 308lb provided I have 5min rest between each set). Your phospate energy system is the energy system 100meter sprinters use.

The reason why you experience lifting the weight as easy for the first 4 reps then suddenly die is that for the first four reps you are using your phosphate energy system which gives you heaps of power but then after around 10s of use it suddenly dies and you are left relying on your much weaker anerobic and aerobic energy systems. You can apparently increase the length of time your phosphate system lasts for with training but you will never get it to last much longer than around 10sec. (By the way you increase the amount of time your phosphate energy system lasts for by increasing the amount of ATP that your cells store - by the way making your cells store more ATP is what makes them appear bigger).

(some of the above is based on remembering stuff taught me 20 years ago when I was around 16 so don't take it as the gospel truth but its probably largely correct).

I'm not exactly sure what the relation between the above three energy systems (chemical pathways to energy release) and the two muscle fiber types (slow twitch / fast twitch) are but I suspect its that slow twitch fibers are optimised for aerobic reactions and fast twitch for anearobic ones (though I think you'll find that both types of fiber are capable of all three energy release mechanisms albeit with different levels of efficiency).





By the way I don't think I've ever grown more than about 4kg (9 lb) per year myself. Some years I didn't gain anything. My average was probably closer to 2kg per year. It took me 6 years to go from starting at 67kg at around 10% body fat to 100kg at around 20% body fat. (Unfortunatley I've maintained the 20% fat level ever since). I'm a hard gainer too. I'm currently 115kg (253lb) at 22% body fat - which would translate to 95kg (210lb) if I cut to body builder level 5% body fat. The point being that despite being a hard gainer I've stuck with body building long enough (17 years) that I have still gained an impressive physique. You just have to be patient in the body building game, especially if your not a mesomorph with great genes and on steroids. Its worth it in the end though so hang in there. Also as someone else mentioned failure to eat enough due to fear of getting fat is I think what holds a lot of people back).

 

[semag]

wow... now THAT was a reply.

*standing ovation*