David DeaAngelo

MachineGunJack

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In 2004, I began reading David DeAngelo's e-mail newsletter. I thought
he had some interesting points but I began to notice a couple of patterns:

1: Repeating old material with but a word change or throwing in old stories
with very brief new items.

2: Responding to any criticism by ad hominem attacks. A woman once said
that his vaunted ****y & Funny techniques were wearing thin
on her by various men she met in social settings. Rather than address
the matter on its merit, he went into a tirade saying her boyfriend
was probably some crack addict or crack dealer wussy boy. He did
not use good business sense by asking what the exact context was
and then address the issue by saying that his work has been at times
used incorrectly.

While I enjoy his articles, I also know they are contain some sense
of dramatic license; exaggerations of things that may have happened
in order to weave a better story.

Also, I disagree with his assertion that his techniques can overcome
one's ingrained preferences. Let's put that claim to the test by first
putting the shoe on the other foot.

A man who looks like Matt Damon or a younger Mark Harmon; young,
handsome and athletic is approached by a woman who looks like
Madeline Albright or Janet Reno. She is ****y and funny up the
wazoo. However, our gentleman is attracted to athletic Polynesian
females. No amount of C&F is going to break through his prejudices.

Using David D's logic, a man who looks like Danny DeVito or the late
Chris Farley should be able to attract a woman who looks like
Lindsay Lohan or Jessica Simpson just by using his C&F and other
techniques even if the woman in question is attracted to men who
are over 6 feet with blonde or light brown hair (think Peyton Manning
here).

I once asked out a gal and used a tad of ****y and Funny and guess what?
She likes guys who are 6 feet tall with blonde hair and blue eyes. When
you're me, a ruddy/swarthy SOB with dark hair and dark eyes, using
any number of techniques is going to be a cumbersome effort in
overcoming prejudices and preferences that have manifested themselves
into one's psyche over years.

My point is is that while I think techniques like C&F are good as general
pointers to pull out of the bag at appropriate moments, it really is
a case by case basis. Different people have different wants or needs;
different people will respond differently to any technique, just like
different people watching the same movie will walk out with a different
opinion or experience of the movie. I once used ****y and funny in
a brash, ball busting way and the woman I did it to took affront, thinking
I was an immature smart ass/jackass. Another person may have
laughed with me and ate it up. As I said, just depends on the
situation.
 

Ace of Flames

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He never claimed it will work on any and every girl. No one has a technique or line that can claim that. Its impossible.

When you really think about it, C+F is about opening up your personality and learning to be more playful. If a girl doesn't like your particular brand of C+F (i.e., your personality and playfulness), then you didn't want her anyway.
 

white belt

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MachineGunJack said:
In 2004, I began reading David DeAngelo's e-mail newsletter. I thought
he had some interesting points but I began to notice a couple of patterns:

1: Repeating old material with but a word change or throwing in old stories
with very brief new items.

2: Responding to any criticism by ad hominem attacks. A woman once said
that his vaunted ****y & Funny techniques were wearing thin
on her by various men she met in social settings. Rather than address
the matter on its merit, he went into a tirade saying her boyfriend
was probably some crack addict or crack dealer wussy boy. He did
not use good business sense by asking what the exact context was
and then address the issue by saying that his work has been at times
used incorrectly.

While I enjoy his articles, I also know they are contain some sense
of dramatic license; exaggerations of things that may have happened
in order to weave a better story.

Also, I disagree with his assertion that his techniques can overcome
one's ingrained preferences. Let's put that claim to the test by first
putting the shoe on the other foot.

A man who looks like Matt Damon or a younger Mark Harmon; young,
handsome and athletic is approached by a woman who looks like
Madeline Albright or Janet Reno. She is ****y and funny up the
wazoo. However, our gentleman is attracted to athletic Polynesian
females. No amount of C&F is going to break through his prejudices.

Using David D's logic, a man who looks like Danny DeVito or the late
Chris Farley should be able to attract a woman who looks like
Lindsay Lohan or Jessica Simpson just by using his C&F and other
techniques even if the woman in question is attracted to men who
are over 6 feet with blonde or light brown hair (think Peyton Manning
here).

I once asked out a gal and used a tad of ****y and Funny and guess what?
She likes guys who are 6 feet tall with blonde hair and blue eyes. When
you're me, a ruddy/swarthy SOB with dark hair and dark eyes, using
any number of techniques is going to be a cumbersome effort in
overcoming prejudices and preferences that have manifested themselves
into one's psyche over years.

My point is is that while I think techniques like C&F are good as general
pointers to pull out of the bag at appropriate moments, it really is
a case by case basis. Different people have different wants or needs;
different people will respond differently to any technique, just like
different people watching the same movie will walk out with a different
opinion or experience of the movie. I once used ****y and funny in
a brash, ball busting way and the woman I did it to took affront, thinking
I was an immature smart ass/jackass. Another person may have
laughed with me and ate it up. As I said, just depends on the
situation.
There are alot of David DeAngelo bashers out there but I think that his advice is sound. He advises you to use them smartly and do alot of self discovery I think that you have been using his advice wrongly sometimes. However David DeAngelo does repeat his material I'm sure that I have newsletters that are identical. He is good and has helped me but just because it works for him doesn't mean it works for everyone, he points you in the right direction and often that is all what is needed.
 

wayword

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MachineGunJack said:
While I enjoy his articles, I also know they are contain some sense of dramatic license; exaggerations of things that may have happened in order to weave a better story.
Yes, I've stopped reading his letters due to the repetition. I mean, how many articles can you write about C&F? Tha's just one piece of the puzzle. Next?

Most pro-PUAs lie a lot about their stories. Sad, but true. There's a new website every week and they are in very stiff competition to attract consumers. So, I'd take all their boasting and testimonials with a big shaker of salt.
 

Lucas718

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I think too many guys get hung up on using the C&F technique as if it will always work 100% of the time. It doesn't. Nothing does. It should just be part of your overall game, not your ENTIRE game.

If you read DeAngelo's stuff you'll see that he often says "attraction isn't a choice". Women don't choose who they are and are not attracted to. DeAngelo's theory is that attraction is triggered deep inside and he presents some of the things guys can do to trigger attraction in a woman. Things like being aloof, a little mysterious, calm, confident, and a little c&f, are things that have been shown to work a lot better than being an ass-kissing wussy. Women aren't attracted to wussy men... wussy men get the LJBF speech.

Just because you may have tried it once and it didn't work doesn't mean there isn't something to his theories. DeAngelo's stuff seems geared towards helping shy guys break out of their shell and get them talking to women, c&f is the easiest way for them to do that. From what I've seen, these things do tend to work better than approval seeking methods such as giving a lot of compliments, buyings gifts, and letting the woman control the relationship. But nothing works in very situation. Even DeAngelo admits that once you get into a relationship you might want to scale back the c&f a bit, but not to the point where you become her ass-kissing, approval seeking, lap dog.

Let's face it, there are enough women in the world for even a Woody Allen type to eventually get a girlfriend. But there are many many more that would go for James Bond.

Bottom line is to find whatever works for you and keep doing it.
 

Holland

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IF you check out his programs and e-books, he doesn't even adress ****y and funny that much. It's just that everyone talks about it that people start to think it's everything. It's just that some ****y and funny is just so great to do and a lot of fun to talk about the situations.

If you take the advances dating series for instance. There isn't that much about ****y and funny in there. He starts of with the how things work and how it evolved. Then he points out how you can apply things to yourself and about self improvement. He talks about body language, voice tone and techniques to transition from phase to phase. He talks about beliefs , chivalry and he lets guests talk about what they do. And he talks about ****y and funny, just another piece to the puzzle.

You judge him based on his newsletter. That's not even the real stuff. It's only people talking about the stuff that he teaches and yes, the letters are filled with ****y and funny stuff, that's because that's the stuff that's gets you laughing.
 

everywomanshero

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D.D. makes some interesting points and occasionally has a really good guest speaker. I think he's more useful for getting your head in the right general direction than for an ending point. He (and his guest speakers) provide a general baseline like using movies to secure the makeout, little things around the house to provide DHVs, basic mind set, etc.

In general, a lot of guys just don't seem to be all that comfortable asking women out when using *any* advice. The thing is, you really don't ever have to. If you really want you can just talk to women. Join organizations and go to activities you know women will be at, and things will jst start to happen. I have lots of women I meet in daily life very interested. It's so very easy, they will give you many, many signals to let you know they are interested. David D can be a starting place learning to listen for the signals, but there isn't much he can do, it's something that mostly has to be learned, all he can do is let you know you should be looking for them.
 

MachineGunJack

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Lucas718 said:
I think too many guys get hung up on using the C&F technique as if it will always work 100% of the time. It doesn't. Nothing does. It should just be part of your overall game, not your ENTIRE game.

If you read DeAngelo's stuff you'll see that he often says "attraction isn't a choice".

Alright, if attraction is not a choice, how does one explain profiling, which
is really just another way of saying preferences? He never has addressed
that topic because it is one that requires a bit of investigation which goes
beyond technique.

While most people have innate or just natural instinct preferences for
what makes their heart beat a little faster, that innate preference
manifests itself into one's psyche.

Example: One of my best friends likes women who are 5'7'' and waif
thin. While that is a natural gut response and what makes his ****
hard, it has become part of his psychological profile: Hispanic male,
25-30; thin himself and a metrosexual with aversion to manual labor.
Female preferences: Waif or very thin; Eastern European; 5'7" to
5'9" and quasi dependent on the male. He does not consider
Lindsay Lohan or Britney Spears attractive; saying Lohan is too
Plain Jane for the international standard and Spears is just
packaged correctly but is really backwoods white trash.

David DeAngelo usually just repeats the claim of attraction and while
he is for the most part correct, he never addresses the issue of
profile preferences or individual prejudices. So in one way, he is correct
but in another way, females do have somewhat of a choice because
their preferences have become prejudices and they have a picture of
who and what they are attracted to. In turn, that creates the
market segment they will incline towards.

Anyone who has ever studied either basic psychology or basic
marketing knows that people have habits, which are driven by
their innate preferences and prejudices. While the initial attraction
to an item or concept may not be a choice (I like Coke better
than Pepsi just because...), the fact that it becomes part of the
personality makeup takes it into the realm of making choices; seeking
and obtaining and an unwillingness to deviate from that preference.
 

Sean O

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David D isn't totally useless... although he's far from being a god of seduction, IMO. Also, the whole attraction is not a choice thing is BS.
 

BigFoot

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David D. is good at one thing: making money on this stuff. Occasionally he get's something right on his subject matter.
 

Bubs

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You gave a good rant MGJack. So what have you learned from it?

I agree with you on the profiling thing. I ask so many guys what they like on a girl and they say "i love blondes with big boobs." Yet for me, i love a girl who is petite with long dark hair.
It's different for every guy. And its the same for every girl.

D.D just had to find a marketing techinque. Thats why i dont agree with people following one method from one person. This whole community seems to be getting scientific and trying to find the one thing that works - but they'll never find it.

Each girl is an individual. Some may find C&F as arrogant. It's up to you to match the situation and see what works.

But i do agree that D.D has given us the right direction. Compliments and kissing ass do not work. So many of us were going down the right path. And by reading his work, it's giving us a whole new perspective. The trouble for him now is that he's a one trick pony. What else is there to offer?

With that direction that he's shared with us though, you need to sensitise yourself to a girls responses. And you only do that by getting out there.

Would you expect to buy a book on "how to draw" and not even put pencil to paper?
 
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