"Dating system", European style

Oscar Wilde

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Hi all.

Things are way different over this side of the pond regards dating. For one thing, we don't. Date, that is.

There's no formal "get her number, give her a call, go on dates 1, 2, 3, bang" going on here.

You're more likely to have a ONS than that happen.

Also, forget about home phone numbers? Why the hell would I want it, even if they gave it to me? 90% of the entire population have cells, and that's including kids, So 99.999R% of our HB target population are going to have cells, and use them regularly.

These facts change a couple of things: for one, when you ask for a number, she doesn't know with any reasonable certainty whether you're going to call her, and even if she does, she will not know *for what reason* you're going to call (I'm not joking).

So girls tend to give out their number more often, but fail to respond or no-show to the setup date on the other hand.

It's a lot easier to get someone to go to a bar with you (this is Ireland, we have a social pub culture).

I'll post some more thoughts later detailing more differences. Most of these points should be true for Ireland, UK and some or most of Western Europe.

Oscar.
 

G_S

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I don't think your culture makes a difference as long as you have a noticable ray of confidence. Ask her to if she'd like to have a Guiness with you. Maybe get pissed together. If she's in the middle of something get her cell # and make future plans.
 

Aurelio Tiziano

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.....

You know,

I can't think of a word in any language that resembles "date".

I think it is an American invention under many aspects.

I can tell you one thing, I know of basically no guy who walks up to a chic he likes and starts and conversation, then gets the number, goes on the date etc etc

I think people just come together some how, withut asking each other out or anything around here.

If it were like America, I would be getting hundreds of chics.....




Cheers ;)
 

Oscar Wilde

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G_S: no, the culture doesn't make any difference in the confident initial approach, but the whole number close thing is way more important in your culture than ours. I'm not sure why, but I think it's because your dating population all know "the rules".

No chick over here is going to fall for a line like "Hey, it was great talking to you - give me your number so we can get together and continue this conversation sometime!"! It's funny even considering it, but it just aint gonna happen :)

But yes, this advice in the bible regarding confidence, who the prize is, etc, that's all relevant.

Aurelio: agreed 100%. btw, damn but I love italian girls :)

More to come.

Oscar.
 
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question to Tiziano:

is there any message board similar to this in Italian ?

so far I have found only nlp based websites in Italian, and they are pointless

or maybe any seduction website is pointless...
 

Charm

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If the culture is truly so different, perhaps it is your responsibility to educate DJ's on how to deal with certain situations in your culture.

However, keep in mind DJing is a state of being, a type of presence that sends out an aura that attracts women to you, similar to the alpha-wolf or the tough blue-jay bird who puffs its chest out and all the female blue-jays come flocking to.

The techniques may be different, just like the techniques involved in plumbing and roof repair are different, but the quality of the workmanship can still be excellent in both cases. It's all up to you.
 

Oscar Wilde

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Charm: absolutely, shall try to return the lessons I've learnt from this.

btw, Alaska? Much talent? :)
 

Oscar Wilde

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btw a note about the difference between Ireland and the Brits...

Irish people are less reserved and much more outgoing and likely to start a conversation with J Random Stranger, whereas the Brits generally do not. (This is observed behaviour, not opinion, I am not judging so don't get mad you UK guys.)

Therefore here people are more receptive to cold pick-ups. Strangers just having a chat with them is normal, but at the same time they will probably have no clue that you're trying it on with them.

In the UK, I've noticed that girls are more likely to know from the word go what you're up to. So you're more likely to get rejected straight out, but also you're more likely to have a higher IL in those girls who don't reject straight off.

More to add to this thread, could be a long one... :)

Oscar.
 

Blaaaaat

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Yes, smae thing here in holland (netherlands). Dating is not something we do... Well, we do date, but it doesn't have the same (romantic) meaning as in the USA.

But the discussion about attraction makes a lot!!! of sense, and it works.
 

Shiftkey

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No chick over here is going to fall for a line like "Hey, it was great talking to you - give me your number so we can get together and continue this conversation sometime!"! It's funny even considering it, but it just aint gonna happen
Have you actually given this an honest try more than a couple of times? I'm not trying to discredit what you say because you could be right, I've never been to Europe (yet). But I've heard guys over here in the US say the exact same thing, when obviously they're wrong.

BTW, I'm going on a "date" this week with a girl who was raised in Germany and moved here 4 years ago, so any advice you have I might be able to use.
 

Oscar Wilde

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Originally posted by Shiftkey
Have you actually given this an honest try more than a couple of times? I'm not trying to discredit what you say because you could be right, I've never been to Europe (yet). But I've heard guys over here in the US say the exact same thing, when obviously they're wrong.

BTW, I'm going on a "date" this week with a girl who was raised in Germany and moved here 4 years ago, so any advice you have I might be able to use.
No, you're right, I haven't given it much effort. But it's like one of those things that just doesn't sit right on me, which prolly doesn't help me pull it off.

Re: the German girl... hmm, dunno. They can be cool, but sometimes quite strange too. Since she's been in US a while you should be fine :)
 

Oscar Wilde

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ok, I think I've got one, an important difference between US and Euro style. The other Europeans here can tell me if this is just .IE or widespread:

Our approach to the date 1,2,3 system is completely different in the sense that a girl who gives her number after 5 - 10 mins of conversation *will not* want to go on a date with you if you call her back. She'd prefer to talk to you for 30 - 40 mins in the first place, and have a really good idea of who you are before she'd risk going out on that 1st date.

That, in a nutshell, is the major difference I think.

Comments?
 

Shiftkey

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No, you're right, I haven't given it much effort. But it's like one of those things that just doesn't sit right on me, which prolly doesn't help me pull it off.
It takes some adjusting to here also, but don't knock it til you try it. If I was there right now I'd bet you $20 I could get a date using this method.

She'd prefer to talk to you for 30 - 40 mins in the first place, and have a really good idea of who you are before she'd risk going out on that 1st date.
Even if the 1st date was something casual like coffee or lunch? That's what I typically do.
 

anakin

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Oscar,

I'm in total agreement with ya, one has to adapt their style of what the Bible says in order to succeed in Europe, generally speaking.

In fact, dating in Europe is really an interesting topic...I remember when I first cam on this site and i was reading some of the information ... and then you think about applying that to Europe and you think WTF??!!! LOL. Of course, the DJ technique IS universal, but it requires some modification when you are in Europe for example.

Approach: I'm at the moment in northern Germany and if a guy approached a girl at the mall for example, flirted for 5 minutes to get her number...he would in most cases fail...esp. as this is not the CULTURE, and attempting something like that would come off as desperate. In order to succeed at something like that, you have to establish a context and get talking from there...

Certain environments are however easier..such as Uni (esp. since I have to say, sadly, most of the guys I have seen are real AFCs - I remember hearing a story how one guy really liked a girl, and before anything else, he took off his clothes in her office...in order to seduce her... he failed miserably...hahaha)..

Nevertheless, the universal DJ rules, such as for example, confidence, charisma, having fun, having a great sense of humour...are all aspects that will work, anywhere, anytime, with any woman.

Originally posted by ShiftKey:
I'm going on a "date" this week with a girl who was raised in Germany and moved here 4 years ago, so any advice you have I might be able to use.
Ahh..the German chick! Hard to define actually...but let's have a go.

- Try to establish which part of Germany she is from. Girls from the north tend to be more conservative (that's where I am at the mo :rolleyes: LOL, although it pushes my skills further). Girls from more southern parts are generally really cool...as I found out when I was in Munich...really cool and far less conservative...and are more cool about their sexuality and sleeping around.

- Don't mention the war. Don't mention politics or the Germany economy! :D

- Determine her 'conservativeness' and her 'personality' by the way she dresses...I've seen especially that people really dress to show their character, more so than other European states. Something like a tattoo or a body piercing (except an ear piercing) may give some clues.

IMO, German chicks are generally "handsome" but not "beautiful". Generally, they have good bodies, cutish faces, but there's that something missing - it's hard to describe...they also are quite money conscious...

Also, there are just so many types of chicks that it is impossible to give more specific tips...it really comes down to how outgoing and cool she is...especially regarding sex. I mean, generally, German girls are more likely to have sexual relations in a relationship...rather than just for the sake of a ONS (although those do exist..you just have to use your power of observations in seeing those types of chicks). German girls are generally more cautious. . . but the good news is that the general DJ skills do work. If you can exude confidence, charisma, humour, and show that you have direction in your life, purposeful, you can get the girl.

Also, the fact that she's been in the US for the last 3 years will have had an impact on her.

Anakin
 

Shiftkey

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- Try to establish which part of Germany she is from. Girls from the north tend to be more conservative (that's where I am at the mo LOL, although it pushes my skills further). Girls from more southern parts are generally really cool...as I found out when I was in Munich...really cool and far less conservative...and are more cool about their sexuality and sleeping around.

- Don't mention the war. Don't mention politics or the Germany economy!
This will help alot actually :D

- Determine her 'conservativeness' and her 'personality' by the way she dresses...I've seen especially that people really dress to show their character, more so than other European states. Something like a tattoo or a body piercing (except an ear piercing) may give some clues.
Well she has her navel peirced and dresses in tight (yet classy) clothes, so here's hoping she's not too conservative sexually ;)

IMO, German chicks are generally "handsome" but not "beautiful". Generally, they have good bodies, cutish faces, but there's that something missing - it's hard to describe...they also are quite money conscious...
She's actually half German, half something else (forgot which...). She wasn't even born in Germany, just raised there since she was 1 year old. Overall I'd give her an 8 on my scale - nice body, really pretty face, and she carries herself really well. I don't really know what you mean by German girls being "handsome." Fortunately I don't think she fits this description lmao

Your advice will really help anakin, thanks!
 

anakin

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I don't really know what you mean by German girls being "handsome." Fortunately I don't think she fits this description lmao
LOL - that's funny. For me, German chicks are good...but not, generally speaking, really amazingly gorgeous (except one half-German half-Greek girl I saw...:))...Yep, the mixed ones can be really hot. I'm more attracted by the southern look Italian, Greek, Spanish.

Good luck with the date!


anakin
 

desert_dweller5

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Spanish culture

I'm planning a trip to spain for a year. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with the girls there. Are they conservative? do they have ONS's? Does the Jenifer Lopez rule apply to the spaniards or is that latin America? Just thought i'd ask.

Desert_dweller5
 

Atratus

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Hoi Blaaat. 'Oe is 'ie?

I think cold pickups might be a tad more difficult here in the netherlands than in the US, but can otherwise be pulled off, especially in shops, public transport, or on the bicycle. I've gotten used to talking with people around me, but haven't closed yet, and haven't met anyone i'd be much interested in or who has very much in common with me. That is, of course, aside from sex. However, it's considered to be very important to 'network' around here, so i guess most people should jump at the opportunity.

Addition: come to think of it, not a day outside passes without some shallow-seeming girl suddenly noticing me and immediately finding some distraction near myself to anchor to. They're undoubtedly fishing for attention, so i suspect they wouldn't be shy of a cold pick-up on my behalf.

Also, i have noticed dark-skinned guys (dunno the dutch politically correct word for 'african-dutchmen'. We aren't bothered very much with that.) doing cold-pickups, basically called out to women passing by about having some fun. Haven't seen any white people, or 'cheeseheads', do any of that. Haven't seen it work either, but i suspect it does once in while.

On the other hand, i've usually found my simplest proposals of tea or beer at a terrace, or icecream, quite well received. This is similar to a simple first date, except we don't call it that. We don't call it anything, unless were meeting up somewhere, then it's an 'afspraak', which means agreement or date. But people aren't as touchy feely here, so no kiss as far as i know.
I've often been asked wether i'm also going to this or that club or cafe' (or 'kroeg'). This is called 'Uitgaan', or going out. Spending alot of time with someone on such a night can often be considered date, but since this is a small country, don't expect it to a private, just the two of you kind of time, especially in popular cafe's or clubs. Movies, theaters and dinners are usually more private, but i are usually kept for later when they're intimate.

Now this may sound familiar and very easy for all the alledgedly difficult european standards, but Oscar Wilde hit it right on the head when he said chicks "prefer to talk about 30-40 minutes to know you before considering dating (he's such a. Maybe this isn't true with some people, but it sure is for me. Since i'm clad in black and a mysterious stranger to the average cloggie chick, i've found chicks want to build some rapport first before deciding on anything.

Most people here are very individualistic; they have their own opinions about stuff, and like to express their uniqueness. With this in mind, i think it helps when i can clearly express what i'm going to do, and why i should (have this drink, buy this book, etc). Their slight tendency for narcissism is much compensated by their appreciation for being caring and charitable to people and to the enviroment, as well as for practical mindedness. This is also important when getting a girl to do what you want. Tell her she should also go out on friday, because she'd like it, and because one should relax and have fun now and then, and sweat out all the useless shyte from the body.

Being honest and straightforward will allow you more freedom to be assertive and take the lead; she will follow consciously and willingly. Most cloggie chicks are very lazy, so they'll be grateful when you do lead, but they need to trust you first, and know that you're not
1. dumb and 'unauthentic'.
2. a psycho
In that order. So here, we need to show alot of value in, and one of the things that enamours the chicks here is being authentic. This basically means being all the stuff we stay a DJ should be, with one crucial added ingredient: being original. And i must say some people here have rather funny ideas about what is original. For example, a player who is original isn't called a player anymore. To many people, confidence must go hand in hand with originality, or they would see you as having small-minded and a swollen ego.

So i think being creative with your time together is much more important here than in the US. I think that learning dance moves and making dates would be considered forced and awkward admired much less than one would naturally develop their own way to dance or spend time together.

This has a very definite plus: so long as one is original and practical-minded, or down to earth, chicks willingly do just about anything. They're very liberal that way, so long as you can present your prefered course of action to be a work of art that is sure to lead to a state well-being and emotional gratification. They won't give it up when you tell them you can bring them to ecstacy, but they will when you tell them about the good it does to one's bodily and mental health to **** alot. A dutch chick could say she still wants an LTR, but an ONS would balance her a bit against that want, or reinforce it, so that would be good too. Hell, i might even agree.

For most people i know, all this boils down to putting more attention into the people you really like and less into sifting the masses for them. To them, the picking up and dating effort isn't really worth it. For the DJ's it means paradise because most people are willing to do their best for you and give a little even when they know they can't have you. The chicks are usually individualistic and perhaps confident enough to walk away pleased with what they've gained than worry about what other's might think. They usually do all their worrying before their decision. Hell, even when the regret their decision, alot have the guts to accept it and admit it.

Although all in all i'm very much satisfied with the chicks and the culture (but not the climate) around here, i'd like to experience how it is in the US without the reserved-until-identified-by-proof-of-authenticity-badge-attitude that i perceive. I'd like to know wether i'd have to follow the rules of the dating game or wether just the DJ principles and my game will suffice. Besides, i get the impression alot of chicks in the US are air-headed, as they get called stuff like bimbo, broad, etc. We've got people like that too, of course, but if only half of what i hear is true, i'll feel alot better about dutch chicks when i get back.

Needless to say, these are my own observations. I'm really curious wether others reckognize them, so i'd love to hear what you think blaaat, and any other DJ's van Oranje that might be reading. Do not allow the lion to be left standing in his shorts!

Atratus
 

Charm

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Alaska and the UK are not that much different, except we pick our dates up on a polar bear that we ride, wheraas you have cars, and we have sex inside of Igloos, whereas you have houses, and of course we use the ivory tusk of a sea otter, whereas you use a dildo.
 

TBR

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Originally posted by Shiftkey
Try to establish which part of Germany she is from. Girls from the north tend to be more conservative (that's where I am at the mo LOL, although it pushes my skills further). Girls from more southern parts are generally really cool...as I found out when I was in Munich...really cool and far less conservative...and are more cool about their sexuality and sleeping around.
Hmm, I think that is the other way round. Generally people from the South are much more conservative (those Bavarians) than people from the North. That applies to girls too. Maybe it was just the kind of girls you met or because it is a big city, where people mostly are more progressive.
 
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