Damage control advice

Bladerunner

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Background info: this girl and I have known each other for something like 14 years, but didn't really start talking until this last summer

I asked her to Homecoming, she said yes. However, the next day she came over to me and said "Hey, I just wanted to clarify that we're going as friends, right? Otherwise it would be awkward." Now it must have been that I got four hours of sleep the night before and was completely out of it, because I just nodded my agreement and went to class. The next day I realized how badly I'd screwed this one up.

How should I go about getting on a non-friendship level with her?

All advice greatly appreciated.
 

DarthNihilus

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Dude...

You just make your move on her like you would any other chick.

If she wants you in return her biology will take over.

What women say means nothing, its all about their actions so see what she does if you go to kiss her or put your hands on her ass while you're dancing with her.

If she rejects you and brings up the supposed agreement you two had to just be friends explain to her how tired you were on that day and you hardly remember agreeing to anything or doing anything your mind was so fvcked from sleepiness.

Also if she rejects you go ice cold no contact and don't bother going indepth explaining to her why either let the b!tch figure it out on her own as covert communication is what gets through to women, trying to talk anything out and explain sh!t to them just helps them to solidify your weak douchebag status in their minds.

Left brained nerds on here argue this point all the time but they are idiots and they are wrong.

No contact whatsoever is what you do when a chick pulls the friends card on you.

You do this so she can not benefit from your company without giving you something worthwhile in return, namely her on her knees sucking your c0ck as well taking it up the ass from you.

There's nothing free in this life and for the clued in man his time is not free either.

Friendship with women is for beta male f@ggots.
 

ENIGMA16

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Darth is pretty much dead on. Just treat her like any other girl you want; otherwise you're putting too much thought into it and that's not a good thing.

DarthNihilus said:
Friendship with women is for beta male f@ggots.
I don't agree with this. If I want to **** a girl I'm obviously not going to become friends with her because that ****'s stupid. But if I don't then I see nothing wrong with being friends with women; I'm friends with a bunch of women that I'm not really interested in doing anything with and it's perfectly cool. Plus a lot of them have hot friends that I can go for. :cool:
 

DarthNihilus

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Rollo Tomassi said:
I just hang out with them like they were guys.

,...every time man, every time.

First off lets cover the common term "hang out." This is a catch-all term many AFCs use to justify their behaviors. "Me and my girl-friends hang out together all the time, what's the big deal?" So, what exactly are you doing when you're hanging out? More talking perhaps? You see 'hanging out' is a nice general term, but you've got to be doing something, right? What is it that you do? Is there a difference in what you do with your same sex friends? You see if I tell my wife "Honey, I'm taking my friend Alice to church on Sunday morning" that's a whole lot different than me saying "Honey, I meeting up with Alice for drinks on Friday night," the difference is in what we're doing.

Of course the next thing a prepared AFC will trot out is 'common interests'. Common interest means a mutuality of interest; in other words she's into what you are and you're into what she is. Thus if you're into pro wrestling and muscle cars she must also be. If she's into painting her toenails and talking about cute boys on her bed on a Thursday night you must be also. Now that's black & white, but it comes back to what exactly it is you're doing together - as friends. You see, when two guys are into doing the same thing it's called 'common interest', but when a man and a woman enjoy the same thing it's called 'compatibility'. This of course dovetails into how men will make concessions based on sex. How many guys suddenly have an epiphany about modern art because their female 'friend' does in comparison to if their male friend asked them to go along to the museum? Once again, friendship mitigated by gender differences.

Men and women cannot be friends, but let me qualify that. They cannot be friends in the same degree that most people perceive same sex friendship to be. Now the natural resoponse to this from a well conditioned AFC is "I have lots of female friends" or "what are you trying to say, I can't have female friends, they're all enemies?" Which of course is the standard binary (black or white, all or nothing) retort, and the well trained AFC thinks anyone suggesting that men and women's relations as friends could be anything less than equitable and fulfilling is just a neanderthal chauvinist thinking thawed out from cryogenic freeze in the 1950s. But you are incorrect - not because you wouldn't want to be a woman's friend, but because she cannot be yours. There are fundamental differences in the ways men and women view friendship within their own sex and the ways this transfers to the concept of intergender friendship.

Quite simply there are limitations on the degree to which a friendship can develop between men and women. The easy illustration of this is that at some point your female "friend" will become intimately involved with another male; at which point the quality of what you perceived as a legitimate friendship will decay. It must decay for her new intimate relationship to mature. For instance, I've been married for about 13 years now; were I to entertain a deep freindship with another female (particualrly an attractive female) other than my wife, despite my most platonic intentions, my interest in this woman automatically becomes suspect of infidelity - and of course the same holds true for women with man-friends.

It's not to say that you cannot have female aquaintances, or that you must necessarily be rude or ignore all women with contempt, that is binary thinking once again, but it is to say that the degree of friendship that you can experience with women (as a man) in comparison to same sex friendships will always be limited due to sexual differences. Most men will only ever engage in friendships with women that they find attractive and/or interesting which of course is colored by their attraction to that woman. Now I'm sure you'll play the "not in my case" card and attempt to tell me how much an exception to the rule you are, to which I'll say, even if you legitimately are, it makes no difference. Because the very nature of an intergender friendship is ALWAYS going to be limited by sexual differences.

Even the best, most asexual, platonic, male-female friendships will be subject to mitigation based on sex. The easy example is that I'm sure you'd be jealous and suspect of your girlfriend were she to be spending any "quality time" with another 'male-friend'. It's simply time spent with another male who isn't you and you'll always question her desire to do so in favor of spending time with you.

So get out of your head now that there even is a so called "friend zone" with any woman. You're either intimate with her or you're not. Women have boyfriends and girlfriends, if you're not ƒucking her, you're her girlfriend, simple as that. There is no friend zone - there is only the limbo between you being fooled that a girl is actually a friend on an equitable level to your same sex friends, and you understanding that as soon as she becomes intimate with another guy your attentions will become a liability to any relationship she might want to have with the new sexual interest and she puts you off, or you do the same when you become so involved with another girl.
Rollo explains this better than I can. :yes:

So perhaps "f@ggots" was not the best term for me to use to describe males that entertain "friendship" with women.

A more appropriate description I think would be "self defeating idiots" since its far more intelligent to be friends with someone who will always be able to be your friend on a steady level with the same wholesome friend intensity as always rather than someone of the opposite gender whose friendship with you wanes or becomes compromised the moment she becomes intimate with a guy due to needing to inspire the necessary confidence within him to move the relationship forward which hanging out with "guy friends" does not do since other guys in the picture sparks immediate suspicion of infidelity or high potential of infidelity from the clued in man.

Also being friends with chicks so they can introduce you to their hot chick friends just serves to weaken your game.

In other words you can become dependent on a certain chick's social circle to draw from but what if you and she have a falling out over some stupid sh!t eventually?

Then you're stuck having to figure the game out all over again completely rusty having to generate a new social group for yourself which is why its better to not depend on a certain person to draw options from and simply find new ways to generate options yourself from new people continually since that keeps you sharp not stuck in the lazy complacency of continuing to draw from a certain well.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Woah, slow down there, no need to lay it on so thick for a high school noob.

BLADERUNNER, the situation you're describing here is very similar to what a call a Boyfriend Disclaimer (when a girl mentions she has a BF in casual conversation) or a Preemptive LJBF:

Rollo Tomassi said:
What you're describing is the Boyfriend Disclaimer, also known as a Preemptive LJBF. The Boyfriend Disclaimer rejection occurs when a woman slips the information of her unavailability (due to the BF) covertly into casual conversation. I've covered this countless times with frustrated guys asking me why a woman would tell him she had a boyfriend in the middle of a sarge. It's simply a communication methodology with the latent purpose of proactively rejecting him (where a LJBF is a reactive rejection). Men have a tendency to think women are abstract and scattered when in fact they are very calculating, it's just that covert communication is second nature for them.

The idea behind the Boyfriend Disclaimer is that you've telegraphed your interest in her overtly enough that she wants to save herself (and possibly you) the potential embarrassment and discomfort of having to needlessly go through the process of you asking her out. As I said, it's proactive - "Hey lets save us both the trouble of you trying to hook up with me and get to the part where we agree to LJBF." This is a very common practice for exceptionally attractive women who, through frequency, more readily read the approach behaviors of guys who are attracted to her.

Now bear in mind you're dealing with an adolescent girl here so her social skills are still in that awkward adolescence too. Lets look what's happened: You asked her to Homecoming, she accepted. A day later she realizes that it's a date on a more than a platonic level so she rewinds her acceptance and OVERTLY tells you that your 'date' is only to be platonic. This is the message; "I will go with you to this with the understanding that I do not find you attractive, nor do I want to become intimate with you." If she were interested on some base level you'd never have started this thread. Essentially she's agreeing to you buying the tickets, buying the limo, buying the corsage, tipping, etc. Now that may or may not be the entire situation, but you get my point - since she's implicitly stated there is no possibility of you becoming even marginally intimate during the evening, you are relegated to being another accessory for her this night. So the question then is, do you WANT to become intimate with a girl who'd expect this?
 

eaglez1177

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Wow excellent posts by Nihilus and Tomassi!

Take this valuable advice Bladerunner.
 

Bladerunner

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Good advice from all. However, I'm still in something of a bind here. I can't really just completely ditch her because she's friends with a bunch of my friends and it's not worth giving myself the social trouble that would result from that.

These are the options I have as I see it:
1. Work on gaming her and creating attraction to the point where she'll look past the "friends date" thing. This is really where I screwed up in the first place by not doing much to mak sure she liked me before I asked her.
2. Call it a loss, lose all of $15 on her ticket, go out and have a fun night anyways with friends.
3. You guys tell me. That's why I'm here asking for advice.
 

chuk15

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Why not say you don't want to go as friends, and then find another chick to go with. (or what nihilus said in his first post with you being tired and not actually meaning to agree with her friend contract thingy)

or go to the dance and pick up a chick there, or go to the dance and go hang with ur compadres, whatever floats your boat.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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From what you're describing here, you're feeling socially obligated to going through with this "date". That's understandable, and unfortunately a judgement call you'll have to make. Undoubtedly your more feminized male friends and all of your mutual female friends will side with your "date" if you choose to decline her for reasons that you wanted it to be more than a 'friends' date.

You could try to recover with her and run a tighter game on her, but let me advise against that. Here's why; adolescent girls don't have the depth of maturity to really see another adolescent guy in a different light once she has an impression of him. I say that because you're in a constant setting of social proof (i.e. school) daily, so that first impression is almost always a permanent one. I realize that's frustrating, but she really doesn't have the prior experience to appreciate your reframing her, or her reconsidering. Perception and appearance is everything in high school and into your first years of college - women simply don't have the capacity to second guess themselves until they mature more (24 to 28 y.o. generally). In fact they hate having to experience that second guessing doubt because it's an affront to their young egos.

That said, I say your best option is to go through the "date", and at least give her something to think about. From your OP you mentioned knowing her for 14 some years. I'll guess this includes part of your childhood, so that a pretty long time for her to solidify a perception of your character. My assumption is that she sees you as beta, non-sexual and not a candidate for her intimacy beyond you being "a good friend" like her brother or something. If she'd had a better option, she'd have simply turned you down. Bear this in mind and make an effort to let her know COVERTLY that you are aware of this. You wont game her into being your GF (which you really don't want anyway), but you can reframe her perception of you.
 
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