Crossroads

[Yo'Mama]

I'm at a weird crossroads personally and professionally.

Professionally I spent the last 10 years working pretty hard in big law. I saved some money, travelled around, and had some fairly interesting times but I'm fed up of it. To me it's soulless. I've taken a few months out and I'm so much happier away from the office. Maybe most people are, I don't know, but I just feel more and more that I want to do something that makes me truly happy. I haven't wasted time (well some of it i have). I've been working out, travelling, etc. The thing I've been doing most though is writing. I love it and have almost finished a novel, which I'm happy with. I know the chances of it even getting published are really low but I've never felt so right doing something before. So now I'm at a point where I have to decide whether to take another law job (great money) or carry on writing. I know which I want to do but at the same time it seems almost foolhardy.

Personally, I've been with my girlfriend for about 8 years. We split a couple of times, most recently because she wanted to get married and I didn't. She is a really great girl. She's attractive (although the lust has worn off, I can't deny that), smart, has a great job, no games, no sordid history, good family, etc. Basically most of the things guys on here are looking for in a serious girlfriend. She's traditional though and believes in marriage. I really don't, I think it's pointless and doesn't benefit guys at all. She knows I think that but she wasn't willing to be flexible on that point. So we split.
While we split I dated other people, quite a few actually. Some were hotter but none of them compared overall - a few were just awful. So I came back. I actually bought a ring for her (we argued about that too, i think a ring is a stupid waste of money but she doesn't, she sees it as something that normal people do and i think she expected something similar to what her friends got. So the ring cost quite a bit, about $10k. I hated spending that much on a diamond, i mean WTF?).
I still haven't given her the ring. Lately we've been talking about kids and I honestly don't want them, for various reasons. She doesn't want them now but says she may well in the future (wer'e both 35). I am on the point of telling her that if she wants to be with me, she has to accept i may never want kids. Needless to say this is a problem for her. We're trying to figure this out but having problems. She even suggested we get married now then if in a couple of years she wants kids and i still don't we get divorced. I told her no way, that's stupid. She actually earns more than me so i don't think I'd get financially screwed over. I trust her anyway but i'm not so naive to think that many men haven't been reamed by women they once trusted.
Now I'm wavering again. Part of me is thinking we should just go our separate ways. I never really wanted to get married but i agreed because that was the price of being with her and i didn't want to lose her. But now i'm having second thoughts about that, even ignoring the kids issue.
I'm in a quandary. Part of me thinks I should settle down, part of me just wants to stay free and single, not so much to bone other women but just to be my own man. I'm lost.
I should also say that I do feel like a bad guy. I have probably wasted the best years of this girls life and she is a great girl. I don't mind if people want to cal me a scumbag in replies to this post, I'm just saying that I already suspect that is the case, so it isn't really necessary. I want her to be happy, i really do, but i don't want to screw up my own life either. The marriage thing is something i can probably come to terms with, but not the kids thing. Again, I know many people will say how wonderful kids are and how i should just have them. I think kids are great for some people but i've thought about it a lot and it's just not something i want, i'm very sure about that.
I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys have. Sometimes I do think i should just be selfless and put her before me. She has given me enough, really. She has really been there for me when I've been physically ill and also when I've been through some terrible mental times. She loves me a lot but at the same time she has very preconceived notions about marriage, etc (she's Catholic) and isn't willing to show much flexibility, even though she knows it makes me uncomfortable.

 

[SecondHalf]

Ahhhh, the crossroads ...
I'm going to comment on a couple quotes and reflect a little at the end...

I have probably wasted the best years of this girls life and she is a great girl.

I, Wasted ... hmmm, that would suggest that there were no good times, that her being in love had no value, and those years spent were all conditional to an agreement you made early on. Somehow, I think not.

That lovely little "best years" quote is a shaming quote. Are those your words, hers or a third parties? If they are yours, you need to erase that mindset. From your story I never got the impression that you wronged this woman. You've been honest and mature in stating your beliefs.

I don't mind if people want to cal me a scumbag in replies to this post, I'm just saying that I already suspect that is the case, so it isn't really necessary.

You have that covered. But again, why? I know ... because someone you love, is or is going to be hurting and you're the cause. But "YOU" are not the cause. Again, you've been true to this woman.

I want her to be happy, i really do, but i don't want to screw up my own life either. The marriage thing is something i can probably come to terms with, but not the kids thing.

Seriously, what you don't want to do is screw up this woman's life by marrying her when you are not ready or don't like some of the unwritten vows that are grey areas (like children).

Again, I know many people will say how wonderful kids are and how i should just have them.

They're lying. Kids are a pain in the a55! However ... you do love them and you do raise them and try your best. They're crazy expensive though. I'm counting the months until mine becomes an adult and leaves the nest.
Can't comment what it's like to be very old and not have a family Christmas to go to as I'm not there yet.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys have. Sometimes I do think i should just be selfless and put her before me. She has given me enough, really.

You've got some soul searching to do friend! What would a selfless act be here?
a) marry and risk enduring life you don't want because you wanted to put her before you as she has ... given you enough?
b) leave her allowing her to find someone more suited to her day dream future life style rather than losing years in a marriage that may end up resentful and loveless?

Think very carefully about this one!

She has really been there for me when I've been physically ill and also when I've been through some terrible mental times. She loves me a lot but at the same time she has very preconceived notions about marriage, etc (she's Catholic) and isn't willing to show much flexibility, even though she knows it makes me uncomfortable.

You're not wrong here OP. Neither is she. Should you feel guilty? Should she then if you married her? Somehow I don't think she would. However, if I'm picking up your state of mind correctly ... might you end up feeling more guilty later? What about when she's approaching 40 and has to deal with the no kids thing. What will be her prospects then compared to now?

I don't know you OP. I don't know if you're nervous and venting a little to sort out a certain fork in the road or if this is eating you up inside and you're looking for justification to push you in a direction that you are reluctant to take on your own.

I will offer you something else to think about ...
I've seen men who were convinced that didn't want children. Absolutely no way but when being around other fathers and seeing their joy, began to open up to the idea and eventually pressured the wife/mate to rethink they're previous agreement of no kids. I've seen men that didn't really care until they had them. It was the change in their wife that brought them as much joy as the children.

So ... in short ... my advice is ... if you don't want this life, my god man, don't go there! You must find the courage to do what may be the hardest thing you've ever done!

If the scale is really an even balance and there are pros and cons to each fork in the road ... you may never find another one quite like her. Maybe you'll be fine.

A bunch of venom from marriage haters (and yep, I'm one of them) is not what you need to help you make the correct decision for yourself.
You need to weigh the risks, be very honest with yourself and find the courage to do what you must (either fork). Just don't waver when you take a direction, for that is a waste of time.

ps: Stop beating yourself up already. You're not being a "scumbag", you're being a logical, honest, sensitive man.

SH

 

[KarmaSutra]

The thing I've been doing most though is writing. I love it and have almost finished a novel, which I'm happy with. I know the chances of it even getting published are really low but I've never felt so right doing something before. So now I'm at a point where I have to decide whether to take another law job (great money) or carry on writing. I know which I want to do but at the same time it seems almost foolhardy.

"When you die you're going to regret the things you don't do. You think you're queer? Let me tell you something, we're all queer. You fvck little girls. So be it."
Ricky Roma.

What you have, Sir, is the ache of regret. It's a seed now, but it's growing. It's growing like your prostate. Soon, your balls, your zest for experience, your reason for waking up every morning, your life essence; all of the reasons we men struggle to maintain our collective kingdoms, will be so overrun with the vines of regret, you'll never be able to cut free of them.

Here's some love from a brother who's worn out the step in your shoes: Walk away.

It sounds easy. It sounds as if it's something mere mortals can do. It reeks of inexperience. But, I did it. I walked away from white America's perfect life. I regret nothing.

You have to own your life. You've already discovered corporate life is as meaningful as acupuncture up your dirtchute. You realize, without any prodding from us men here, that the promise of a future between you and this sweet girl aren't what you truly want. You want sin, a supreme spiritual sin, but you have no way to go about achieving that.

Sin, in the honest definition, is following your heart's desire. Your purpose. What I know now is this: we aren't afforded too many chances in our lives to take a different path when we come to our crossroads. Choice, and the internalized acceptance of that choice, are what separate the wheat from the sh!t. You contemplate your options then make a decision. Whether it's good or bad at that moment is irrelevant. What's paramount is the realization that you accept that choice then never look back.

Now then, you've stated you feel most alive when your thoughts are being poured out through your fingers. I'm the same way. In my old life, I listened to my ex bag-of-b!tch and submerged my writing endeavors in the thought that I had an obligation to raise her up to the highest.

And I was the most miserable bastard for it. So one day I came to a crossroads of my own. Do I wake up and put a pillow over her face until the thrashing stops, or do I tell her to go fvck herself? Though the former would've been more fun, I chose to leave. I walked out with my Lovesac, my tv, my laptop, clothes, cookware, and my French Press. I kissed my kid and told her Daddy will always love her, but he has to have space in order to learn to live again.

That was in 2005, this is significant as it's when I joined SoSuave. This place changed my life and, though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still pop in on occasion to write posts like these. Nothing distresses me more than seeing a brother down. Some of the old-timers around here will remember when we changed lives. There's no better feeling.

I'm a writer. I'm a published writer. You can be this too. You have the want and the drive, and these are the two prime ingredients in your verbal soup but you can't get a little bit pregnant. You're either all-in, or out. Dedication above everything.

She loves me a lot but at the same time she has very preconceived notions about marriage, etc (she's Catholic) and isn't willing to show much flexibility, even though she knows it makes me uncomfortable.

I was raised Catholic so I can say this: Get away. Nothing will change. She'll always bleed Vatican blue. Catholic women are some of the most self-loathing women you will encounter in this life. Not only do they want you to accept, without question, their outdated dogmatic medieval belief system, but you will have no choice but to indoctrinate your offspring with their bile.

In ending let me tell you how I am now. I'm great. Both my heart and my tongue are great. My wife is fully supportive of my decisions, and I of hers. We have separate passions, and we have our lives together. We continue to hang-out with our single-life friends and we have our marriage friends.

My decisions led me to the life I merely dreamed and reached for. Choose wisely my friend.

 

[Yo'Mama]

Wow KarmaSutra and SecondHalf. Those were two amazing replies. I'm going to read them over and over again. Thank you so much.

With the kids thing I do know that when people have them, kids bring them unbelievable joy, transcendental. But actually when weighed up against all of the negatives, I think it's not certain at all that kids actually make your life better. More joyous yes, but better not necessarily.

I know I don't want kids. I'm extremely sure about that. She says she doesn't want them at the moment but she is pretty sure she will want them in the future. She seems pretty prepared to leave me on this issue, so I suppose I should be too.

The marriage thing was enough. Since I was 18, I felt in my bones that I didn't want to get married and I assumed I would change. But in my mid thirties I feel the same. Yet I bought the ring. I can't even bring myself to give it to her.

I should have just been straight from the beginning. Actually I WAS completely straight but I allowed myself to come round because I didn't want to lose this girl. I just hate screwing over and causing pain to someone who is so good and who has been so good to me. On the other hand it doesn't seem to bother her too much that I don't want marriage, so it's not like she's giving my feelings as much thought. The kids thing I can understand though, it's a natural urge after all, I can't really deny her that. I mean I can't deny that it's fair enough if she leaves me over that issue so she can have them with someone else.

I kind of know what I want, which is to not get married and not have kids, I just know it's going to be so hard. Some people would deal with this easily but I'm prone to depression and I can see this plunging me headlong into a lengthy one. I'll be worried about her all the time, worried that she's not happy, that I've ruined her life, etc. I feel absolutely wretched. I wish she was a complete bvtch, so I could cackle, rub my hands in glee, tell her to hit the road and then kick back and think about all the cool things I'm going to do.

Corporate life is awful for me. I don't know how people do it anymore. I did it for 10 years but now I've been out of it for a few months I think back tot he mindless tasks, the stifling environment, the bosses that make my skin crawl, etc and I just don't want to go back. I love writing and I think the stuff I write is pretty good but everybody keeps telling me you can't make money writing novels (unless you happen to be that Harry Potter or Fifty Shades woman).

Am actually panicking slightly as I'm writing this, but it's a bad day generally.

SecondHalf, thanks for saying I'm not a reprehensible individual. I should have ended this or allowed it to end years ago. Hell it did end when I didn't give in to the marriage ultimatum but I came crawling back because I missed her. It was shortsighted. I have to be honest, this girl is a great person but I don't think our interests are particularly aligned.

I'm really glad you are doing great now. I'm a marriage hater too. I'm so strongly opposed to it but I feel like I owe it to this girl now. I bought the ring and everything (she knows I bought it) but trying to give it to her is like Frodo trying to throw the ring of power into the fires of Mount Doom.

KarmaSutra, do you write novels? Kudos to you man. I would love to make a living doing what I enjoy instead of having to go into a damn prison (office) every day, counting down the seconds to freedom. I know i should feel lucky given that many people would kill for a job, especially a high paying one, but it's destroying my soul bit by bit.

I think I know what I have to do, it's just going to hurt like hell.

Thanks guys.

 

[Yo'Mama]

Hi samspade,

I know you're right. I'm going to have to do this aren't I? Seriously I'm going to hell for this. I split up with this girl before after the marriage ultimatum, then came back saying I was ready. She took me back after a while. Now I'm doing the same thing again. To a really, really good person. How the hell can I do this?

I think I may be posting a lot in the next few days, weeks. Any of you guys mind if I pm you occasionally?

 

[Colossus]

^I agree with Sam.

I can understand why you feel like a bad guy, but look at this through clear lenses: She MAY be a good woman who has treated you well and been loyal. But she is not stopping until she gets what she wants. She has drawn a line in the sand saying "marry me, or I'm out". Furthermore, say you did marry and it turned out to be fine. What about kids? She is on the cusp of maternal viability, lets be real. Most women don't have kids beyond 40, and if they do genetic problems are likely. In marriage you are contractually bound to her and have no easy way out. You may find fatherhood is alright, but you may also be miserable and trapped, like so many other men in America.

In reality, SHE is putting you up against a wall here. Why should you feel bad? You owe her NOTHING. You are not indebted to give her offspring and marriage. After all, she no longer gives 2 sh!ts about your feelings. She is now saying marriage with the option of kids----or else. That ain't no way to live my man. And she is not necessarily wrong in this, she is just saying that this is what she wants and she is not really willing to compromise anymore. So that does indeed put you at a crossroads.

And the most telling fact of all is that you are painfully hesitant to give her that ring. That is all I need to hear to tell you to chose freedom over guilt.

 

[Yo'Mama]

Thanks Colossus. This is one thing I had thought about before and it's interesting, actually very reassuring, to see the thought echoed here, which is that she is a really, really good girl but only as long as she gets what she wants. She has never given a fvck that I told her repeatedly that marriage made no sense at all to me. The first time we discussed it things came to a head when she left me because I wasn't willing to tie the knot.

However, and here is the kicker, it was ME who came back. After splitting up with her I dated arond. It was fun actually but none of the girls were relationship material. After a while I got tired of the psychos, the sluts, the flakes, the airheads and started getting nostalgic about what I had. So I came back to her and after a while she relented. It was on the understanding that I no longer had any problems with marriage. So that is definitely my fault. Actually I was sincere though (enough to buy the damn goddamn ring). Still, after the kids discussion I've realised I don't want to even be married, so i'm backtracking. But it's more because I'm seeing how caving in on one thing just sets up a potential lifetime of compromises, each of which is going to take more and more from the person I want to be and life I want to have.

I just don't believe in marriage, like many guys on here. I don't see one single benefit for a guy in getting married. And those on here who do advocate marriage seem to think it only makes sense when you want to have kids within two to three years. Well i don't want kids!

She is very strong minded, much more so than me. She doesn't introspect and doesn't feel guilt like I do. She treats me so well in many ways but I don't think she truly cares that I don't want marriage (she knows full well i don't and that I relented in the end because it was the only way to be with her). I'm just not going to cave on the kids thing.

I can see it from her perspective and don't really blame her but a couple of the replies to my post have made me think that maybe not all the blame is with me (if it's with anyone). That said I still feel awful. She is supportive of me, even of me wanting to pack in law and write. Although how would that work when there is another mouth to feed!

Guys, is life as a single guy really not so bad after mid thirties? Some people seem to love it and others not so much. I'm pretty independent and very happy spending time on my own so I think I'll be ok, except that I'll be haunted by memories of this girl, the one that got away. But as a couple of people have said, the key is not to look back.

Walking away from this is going to be painful and will leave deep scars but i don't see many alternatives. Even if I could somehow persuade her that marriage and kids aren't necessary she would end up resenting me. On the other hand if she persuades me to have kids (it's not going to happen) I will damn sure resent her. I know I will love my kids because that's how humans work right? But it's not the life I want, no way.

Thanks so much.