Could this whey be holding me back?

[silverwex]

Right, so I was looking at my tub of protein today and I noticed that its 65% isolate and 35% casein - I know casein stays longer in your system and is ideal for before bedtime, while isolate is great for post workout to get to your muscles quicker - but could this possibly be holding my gains back compared to 99-100% whey isolate?

Heres what I use:

http://www.nutrisport.co.uk/estorepro/proddetail.asp?productid=90P

thanks

 

[brucevangeorge]

Umm you shouldnt depend on whey for your gains. Whey is a supplement. A SUPPLEMENT. That means you use it as EXTRA. You should be getting enough protein from your diet. And on top of that you add the whey.

The whey is not your diet.

 

[manuva]

A protein blend is far superior to a tub of whey protein isolate.

Isolate is absorbed very fast by the body, which is a good thing post workout. The problem is that Isolate is absorbed so fast that its overall effect can even be catabolic unless slower acting proteins are present, or unless you eat again within an hour of your PWO fix. Basically if you take isolate on its own, amino acids start flowing to your muscles at an incredible rate - this is a good thing - until the isolate is completely diminished. The body, however, doesn't know to slow down the stream of amino acids going to your muscles and so it starts sourcing other stored amino acids within the body to maintain the flow to your muscles.

This is catabolic and obviously needs to be avoided, either by eating again within an hour of an isolate shake, or by taking a blend of isolate and concentrate/casein. The latter two protein chains break down slower and are there to provide necessary amino acids long after the isolate has been absorbed.

Stick with your blend. It looks good, although I'd recommend something with concentrate in it as well.

 

[silverwex]

umm, brucevangeorge i know that whey is only a supplement - thats not what i was asking...

cheers manuva, so i suppose my blend is ok. did i hear somewhere that concentrate isn't really any good?

 

[brucevangeorge]

If youre using it as a supplement thats fine. As long as your body is getting adequate protein you are making gains.

So the question you were asking is... "I am eating enough protein from my diet. I am also taking alot of whey on top of that. Is the extra whey protein holding back my gains? Or is it cause Im a dip**** and dont know what Im doing?"

 

[Heizen]

Originally posted by brucevangeorge
Umm you shouldnt depend on whey for your gains. Whey is a supplement. A SUPPLEMENT. That means you use it as EXTRA. You should be getting enough protein from your diet. And on top of that you add the whey.

The whey is not your diet.

*ahem* not really.

If you don't get enough protein then using whey is a good way to SUPPLEMENT your intake. Look at the definition of supplement smart one:
a quantity added (e.g. to make up for a deficiency)
Link here
There is no point to take in extra protein if you are already getting enough.

Now, to the question, I don't think that the difference between 60% and 100% are going to hold you back unless your diet is dependant on whey to get enough protein. Caseine take 3-4 hours to get in your system, whey takes 30 minutes, I don't think the 3 hours difference is breaking your gains. How is your diet looking?

 

[silverwex]

thanks for the reply heizen.

diet is ok, going through a cutting phase at the moment.

 

[silverwex]

So the question you were asking is... "I am eating enough protein from my diet. I am also taking alot of whey on top of that. Is the extra whey protein holding back my gains? Or is it cause Im a dip**** and dont know what Im doing?"

No, the question i was asking was:

For gains, is it ok if my whey is 65% isolate and 35% casein, compared to 100% isolate.

 

[manuva]

Yes, it is.

And in response to another question of yours, cocentrate is just fine. It fits somewhere in between isolate and casein in terms of effective digestion time etc.

 

[silverwex]

Cheers manuva

 

[brucevangeorge]

Okay so I was wrong about the supplement being EXTRA. Bit he should be getting enough protein from his diet. Much more than his muscles need. He needs a positive nitrogen balance in his bloodstream. As long as that happens it doesnt matter what type of whey he uses. The gains wil be constant.

If hes having difficulty with gains because of the whey. Then diet is the first thing to fix.

 

[silverwex]

thanks for the info bruce. Yeah my diet has to get better and it will soon.

ps - whats your workout routine, i remember you saying that you perform between 1-3reps per set. can you list your programme?

cheers

 

[brucevangeorge]

of course i can

its really a very simple program.

heres how it goes:

get a weight. perform reps. if you can do more than 3 reps, get a bigger weight that floors you at 3 reps.

( !do not go less than 3 reps. this means a ****load of weight. may damage ligaments and such, be careful! )

now keep the 3 reps range until you plateau. the 3 rep range increases neuromuscular efficency (mind to muscle connection) since youre focusing alot on strength

once you peak and cannot move up the weight, its time to start increasing reps. use the weight you plateaued at and perform more reps every workout day.

next day aim for 4 reps, then 5 reps, then 6 reps

eventually when you reach around 6-8 reps with what used to be a 3rep weight, you restart the whole thing.
(go back to top)

pick a heavier weight with which you cannot do more than 3reps.

then do it again. increase the reps and then the weight, and then the reps, and so on.

thats pretty much it. oh and sets dont matter. i find that i crap out after around 3-4 sets using this. if you can only do 2 sets, or 1set, do not decrease the weight. your stamina will build over time.... patience grasshopper.

try to do more reps for legs though, you may want some more endurance in them. start at 4-5 reps for legs and move to a max of 10-12.

try the program for a couple of weeks and let me know how well it works for you. so far i got great results with it.

oh and stick with compound movements. no isolation. isolation exercises are when you notice that you have an imbalance eg. "holy **** my chest is huge but i have no biceps" and do lots of squats and deadlifts. i finally found the joy of deadlifting and it REALLY helps with muscle size since the legs release alot of steroids into your system.... like testosterone


have fun and dont break yourself

 

[silverwex]

cheers, i might try that routine somewhere down the line.

 

[brucevangeorge]

hey it worked for me, its worth a shot

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by silverwex
Right, so I was looking at my tub of protein today and I noticed that its 65% isolate and 35% casein - I know casein stays longer in your system and is ideal for before bedtime, while isolate is great for post workout to get to your muscles quicker - but could this possibly be holding my gains back compared to 99-100% whey isolate?

Heres what I use:

http://www.nutrisport.co.uk/estorepro/proddetail.asp?productid=90P

thanks

your body doesn't doesnt "hold back" the casein and use up the isolate first, given its all digested at the same time, casein simply stays in your blood longer, but when you have both your body doesn't differientate so benefits of either of the components (whey's fact acting, and caseins long lasting) are diminished.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by manuva
The body, however, doesn't know to slow down the stream of amino acids going to your muscles and so it starts sourcing other stored amino acids within the body to maintain the flow to your muscles.

hahaha, stop reading the hyped up ads in the muscle mags bro, LOL, your body wont start catabolizing yourself faster jsut cause you gave it a quick burst of protein, oh man, excuse me for laughing.
anyways most important for pwo is carbs, so you wanna grab 30-100g with your shake post-workout, depending on the intensity and your own overall size.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by silverwex
No, the question i was asking was:

For gains, is it ok if my whey is 65% isolate and 35% casein, compared to 100% isolate.

for post-workout its actually worse,
as a meal replacement, it would be better, and for bed-time it wont make much of a difference it is still too quick acting. cottage cheese with a dose of unsaturated fat is best.

 

[manuva]

Originally posted by RaWBLooD
hahaha, stop reading the hyped up ads in the muscle mags bro, LOL

I don't read muscle mags.

 

[RaWBLooD]

Originally posted by manuva
I don't read muscle mags.

it was still an outrageous post, its like saying if you add a load of sticks to red hot embers they will cool faster, likewise your body wont suddenly metabolize a bunch of protein from within your tissues because it was fed with something fast digesting.