Consulting the evidence: The Fraud Files

[everywomanshero]

I haven't done an exhaustive search, but here are some frauds I've uncovered. Many of them seem very believable, others smell like BS from a distance.

1. Men are from MArs...(dozens of sources on the net and elsewhere regarding this, google). Anything to do with John Grey. I remember this guy being on a morning talk show (liza or something like that), and even the host was like... that would be totally weird if my husband did that. lol. I later learned he graduated from a non-accredited instution that has had to relocate and change names. In the academic community, he is considered a joke. Tannen is the recommend replacement for people who otherwise would purchase Grey's book.

2. NLP. (http://www.quackwatch.org/, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming#Criticism, etc). This stuff is pretty much crap. In controlled studies, NLP has fared poorly. Although, those with a vested interest in keeping NLP alive have made excuses for it's poor performance, by scientific standards the book seems closed on much of NLP. A great deal of NLP claims just simply isn't factual, again, it's only dangerous in that it makes people feel like they are getting somewhere when in reality they would (likely) be far better off using something that the evidence shows is effective. If subjective bias and placebo effects are all one needs, hey, it just might do the trick.

3. Subliminal Messages: I posted on this earlier today. Not "dangerous" as some claim, just Ineffective. Again, it does tend to make (many) people feel like they have made progress, but on measured tests/abilities/functions there has been no progress.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I've personally seen NLP work in several instances. Also, if used correctly it's much more effective than old world regression therapy when used to adjust previous perceptions of personal incidents.

 

[myspacepickupguide]

I've personally seen NLP work in several instances. Also, if used correctly it's much more effective than old world regression therapy when used to adjust previous perceptions of personal incidents.

You have seen it work because you want to believe that it works.

The mind is very powerful. Sometimes more powerful than we like to admit to ourselves.

 

[myspacepickupguide]

I haven't done an exhaustive search, but here are some frauds I've uncovered. Many of them seem very believable, others smell like BS from a distance.

Similarly, the statements you have made reveal that you 'feel' that you do not want them to be true.

It could be something you feel even subconsciously, because you could very easily believe them if you made the conscious decision to.

I have personally found that believing in things such as "NLP," for example is far more beneficial than choosing to refute. In other words, I would rather believe in the "magic" of life than analyze every reason why something CANNOT possibly be.

It is a mindset that will help you achieve more success.

As for the Men are from Mars comments, I have no idea what that is even about.

 

[Delta]

he's right to remain SKEPTICAL THOUGH.

the mindset of WANTING TO BELIEVE makes for ripe pickings for people who want to sell you stuff.

as i said in another thread, the PUA community is packed with people who promise you "MASSIVE SUCCESS" but such promises are usually not true. and when people are telling you exactly what you are DESPERATE to hear, chances are, these gurus have learned the art of seduction too well but on how to seduce US with their carefully worded rhetoric from our hard earned cash.

the truth about everything is usually much less miraculous and far more prosaic than we would like... and this applies to the stuff OP wrote about.

i think we must always maintain a balance between being open minded but not gullible... and being ESPECIALLY SKEPTICAL when someone comes calling on your wallet.

delta

 

[Nighthawk]

Back when I was a troll-for-hire, guardian hack/sexpert Dr Petra Boynton got me to troll the Men Are From Mars site.

Here, I just found it

http://www.marsvenus.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=724&st=0&

 

[everywomanshero]

Delta's point is exactly why I made the post. When people are desperate to hear something, they often aren't too fast to question it.

On one extreme, skeptics will spend a lifetime debating the truth of something and never make any progress. On the other extreme, some people will try things that have almost no chance of success because they are simply false.

The human mind is undergoing intense study. Yes, it's true we are a long way from understanding it all. Fields like Social Psychology are very young. Today, we have procedures to minimize biases, knowledge of how to produce ecological validity and generalizibility, we can base a reliable poll on who will be our next presient on 1,000 people using advanced survey techniques, we have things like EEG, PET scans, fMRI... we can literally see what is going on in the mind and how long processes take and what parts of the brain are activated. Our ability to learn reliably and quickly is vastly increasing. As a result of all this, a great body of evidence already exists. It would be incredibly naive to ignore this information and continue down the path of the the one eyed man being king in the land of the blind. In fact, much of the background info people such as Mystery based their beliefs on came from fields like Social Psychology. On the plus side we've had some really good stuff come out, on the negative side we've had people like Ross Jefferies who believe in Black Magic. As delta pointed out, there is also an incredible markup that is only likely to further increase with time. Do I really believe a weekend with a PUA is worth thousands and thousands of dollars to most men? Absolutely not! Do I think it's worth the time to sign up for PAIRS and meet a few duds to find someone who can help you develop better habits, absolutely! The really good thing is most guys are still doing nothing, so the bar is set incredibly low right now for guys who are willing to learn what works with women.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

I've personally seen NLP work in several instances. Also, if used correctly it's much more effective than old world regression therapy when used to adjust previous perceptions of personal incidents.

wow, you are delusional? Did you not read his post or visit the links? NLP has been scientifically proven to be 100% pure golden bullshyte. placebo effect explains any people who have apparently experienced good results from it (also scientifically proven). go educate yourself on what the placebo effect is.

 

[Dean]

this was a good site,now most of you are beyond a joke and have no lue
good bye

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

wow, you are delusional? Did you not read his post or visit the links? NLP has been scientifically proven to be 100% pure golden bullshyte. placebo effect explains any people who have apparently experienced good results from it (also scientifically proven). go educate yourself on what the placebo effect is.

No, actually working in hospitals in a psychiatric ward providing successful therapy using NLP concepts actually is my evidence. It's a bit more empirical than second hand knowledge from a link. So what's your actual experience with it?

...as if I'd care about the thoughts of a guy with a screen name professing he's some type of diety...

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

No, actually working in hospitals in a psychiatric ward providing successful therapy using NLP concepts actually is my evidence. It's a bit more empirical than second hand knowledge from a link. So what's your actual experience with it?

...as if I'd care about the thoughts of a guy with a screen name professing he's some type of diety...

oh, so it was your second hand experience working in a hospital eh? I wouldnt exactly call that a controlled experiment or valid empirical evidence. ITs based on your experience, which is subject to the placebo effect. Although the link provides a report of the results of a controlled experiment that was actually caried out, which has a million times more weight to it than your experience in some hospital. Besides, NLP is bull****. correct me if Im wrong, but isnt it based on the same concepts as hypnosis? hypnosis is crap too.

experiments have been done with hypnosis where they did the memory regression thing, they took them back to a time where they were 3 months old and asked them what they saw, and hypnosis magically made them remember seeing their baby crib, toy etc. which seems all cool and all. but the problem is, explicit memory doesnt develop until after 3 months, so its impossible for them to have those memeories, proving hypnosis to be bull****. if hypnosis kind of works, then NLP definitely wont work!

Its crap! NLP is crap!!!!!!!!!

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

oh, so it was your second hand experience working in a hospital eh? I wouldnt exactly call that a controlled experiment or valid empirical evidence. ITs based on your experience, which is subject to the placebo effect. Although the link provides a report of the results of a controlled experiment that was actually caried out, which has a million times more weight to it than your experience in some hospital. Besides, NLP is bull****. correct me if Im wrong, but isnt it based on the same concepts as hypnosis? hypnosis is crap too.

experiments have been done with hypnosis where they did the memory regression thing, they took them back to a time where they were 3 months old and asked them what they saw, and hypnosis magically made them remember seeing their baby crib, toy etc. which seems all cool and all. but the problem is, explicit memory doesnt develop until after 3 months, so its impossible for them to have those memeories, proving hypnosis to be bull****. if hypnosis kind of works, then NLP definitely wont work!

Its crap! NLP is crap!!!!!!!!!

And here's empirical evidence that people are not capable of understanding what they do not believe. You can tell by the myriad of posts ranting of how things don't work. These people attempt to substantiate their failures by posting their diatribes in hopes that other people will agree with them. As if they need just one area in their lives to be right about something, anything.

It's doubtful that these people will ever post anything of their own experiences with success. They have no belief in anything successful, just failure and their posts substantiate it.

By the way I'll explain something to you, I have used NLP first hand on patients and my evidence is their documented success. But I wouldn't be surprised if you'd find a reason for denouncing their success. Maybe you should substantiate it with evidence of your own failures instead of quoting things second hand.

 

[Shiftkey]

My opinion on NLP is that it works with women because it's entertaining, and women enjoy being entertained. A lot of it uses obvious little psychology tricks, which women also enjoy playing along with (just look at the 50 million myspace personality quizes). Using NLP is just like telling a nice little story.

It's also worth noting that I have no experience using NLP in pickup.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

My opinion on NLP is that it works with women because it's entertaining, and women enjoy being entertained. A lot of it uses obvious little psychology tricks, which women also enjoy playing along with (just look at the 50 million myspace personality quizes). Using NLP is just like telling a nice little story.

It's also worth noting that I have no experience using NLP in pickup.

Not ragging on you Shiftkey just pointing out an blatant misconception by a lot of guys. NLP is not a pickup tool nor is it a type of new age hypnotism that many make it out to be from the limited knowledge that they have (mainly via dating gurus). Without going into a long explanation about what NLP really is just understand that NLP is successful when used with (not on) a willing subject who has recognized a perception or experience that s/he would like to change.

 

[Shiftkey]

No worries. Like I said, I don't know much about it.

 

[timeforacatnap]

subliminal messaging...a varient form of NLP was used to great success in the 80s i beleive, also it is an esablished part of business esp sales trainning...its more about communicationskills and rapport buiding that hypnoism as such although that is also possible, the problem however is that there are no accrrediting bodies so like in PU there are alot of ppl who claim to be NLP gurus and arnt actually that good.


as for wether it works, personally i am a strong advocate for it and have seen it work. i'm actually seen girls go into trance like states etc.

how ever thats not to say its works compleatly and that there arnt flaws.

consider anchors: have you every had a bad kiss?...the kiss is one of the most powerful anchors there is, and thats why it has so much significance between the difference in friends and relationships...not sure if that makes sense but i'm sure you get the gist.


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