bullies at bars

[Jeremymichael]

Hello everyone,

I know this is slightly off tangent, but it does count when you are out trying to pull the chicks. How does everyone handle other aggressive males. My local bar is pretty good but just recently a few builder types have started visiting and can be quite intimidating, some of them look like they might cause a fight.

It kind of puts me off because if you are talking to some girls they interject. One guy who I know (he actually a policeman and they don't know it) had is drink taken from him when he went to the toilet.

Basically its putting me off going to that bar now because I feel intimated.

Many thanks,

Jez

 

[phillyb]

dont back down dude.


meaning, dont look for fights, which is the last thing I would advise. But dont be a pushover......Many of those dudes like that have small penises, and are just trying to make themselves feel better by trying to intimidate people.


Eff that sh-t. Dont mind them, and if one try's to start crap with you approach the situation like a man would do, calmly. Use your intellect.....but by god, if they start swingin, dont back down either.

 

[christopher09]

yep

I agree. The best thing about this is ....say your talking with a girl and one of these guys interjects and then starts acting like a moron. If she's worth a second of your time, she will reconize his pathetic actions and, in the end, respect your coolness in light of the situation. Also, if it was me....i would handle it like this...try talking one of the muscle heads up. I like working out, yet im not huge...but i could definately talk anyone up, part of knowing your game. I would chat one of them up about working out. take 5 or 15 minutes, get names, chat about protien lol whatever man, just build a quick relationship with them. In the future when u see them say " hey jimmy, whats up man? everything alright with you? All the while knowing you dont give a crap about them, but only you know this. Hey just think...not only will you look cooler to the girls your hitting on, you will have muscle backup in case a fight breaks your way, and they will not step on your gameplan huh??? what do you think?

 

[SoCalMike]

depends bro. how crazy are these dudes? there are big guys who look intimidating but aren't really that crazy. then there are guys who spend half their lives in prison, are in gangs, etc. you have a lot more to lose than they do, so keep that in mind.

if it's just some jocks, don't sweat it. don't act aggressive, but if they act that way toward you react accordingly.

and another big one: how many are there? you should be with at least that many dudes too, and preferably more.

there is no 100% correct answer to your situation, you have to consider all these factors and decide the best route.

 

[NewMan]

try talking one of the muscle heads up. I like working out, yet im not huge...but i could definately talk anyone up, part of knowing your game. I would chat one of them up about working out. take 5 or 15 minutes, get names, chat about protien lol whatever man, just build a quick relationship with them. In the future when u see them say " hey jimmy, whats up man? everything alright with you? All the while knowing you dont give a crap about them, but only you know this. Hey just think...not only will you look cooler to the girls your hitting on, you will have muscle backup in case a fight breaks your way, and they will not step on your gameplan huh??? what do you think?

Golden advice.

 

[Mike32ct]

This is a concern of mine too. I'm glad you brought it up. Honestly, I would try the following:

1. Arrive early as someone mentioned. Meathead punks and their buddies tend to arrive late, and the later it gets, the more drunk and belligerent they may become. Arriving early also lets you see which girls came in with whom. You are then less likely to hit on someone's gf by mistake. Girls are also friendlier early on because they are bored and not swamped by guys. The downside is the girls are relatively sober because they have just started drinking.

2. Also, the sooner you can get the number or pull the girl from the bar, the better off you are. You don't want to stay until closing time. It's like a military exercise, sneak in behind enemy lines, complete the mission, and GET OUT before the enemy knows you're there lol.

3. Don't expect bouncers to protect you UNLESS you are really good friends with them. Most only want to pick up girls and couldn't care less about protecting male customers. Notwithstanding, if he seems like a decent guy, become a regular and chat him up. If you become good friends with him, then he's more inclined to look out for you.

4. Go to more expensive/mature places. What is the age range at the place you are going to? While we all like young hotties, to me, dealing with the 18 to 24 y/o guys is sometimes more trouble than its worth. No offense to the younger guys out there, but fights are less common at more mature places. Nice safe places include: hotel or casino bars/clubs, upscale lounges, etc.

5. I use the "non-reactive frame" a lot and it seems to work well. When some belligerent guy (or even your boss for that matter) is yelling at you, simply just look at them with a bored, blank look on your face and say nothing. This confuses the hell out of them. Most people either act cowardly and start apologizing, or yell back and escalate a bad situation. When you don't do either, it throws them off balance. The unspoken message with this frame is, "Dude, I'm not impressed. You're not scaring me. I'm not going to waste my time/breath on you." It's also based on the principle that someone can't keep yelling at you if you say nothing because they run out of steam. Plus it makes them look stupid and try-hard to everyone else. Furthermore, you CAN'T "win" an argument with a drunk belligerent punk. Whatever you say he will twist it around and use it as "justiifcation" to start a fight. There is one caveat though. If he is really close (i.e. in your face), be careful, his yelling may be a distraction so he can sucker punch you. Never let someone stay in your face for more than a few seconds.

5. Lastly, I would only fight as an absolute LAST resort and for self-defense ONLY. Never fight for ego or to impress some bar wh*re you just met that night. No piece of a** is worth you getting injured. If you have to walk away, run away, or just sit at the bar in front of the staff until the trouble-makers leave, then do so. Just be careful that they aren't waiting for you outside. Maybe call a friend (or several friends) and have them come pick you up and escort you out. Your safety is #1, picking up girls is a distant second.

Mike

 

[02hero]

This is a concern of mine too. I'm glad you brought it up. Honestly, I would try the following:

1. Arrive early as someone mentioned. Meathead punks and their buddies tend to arrive late, and the later it gets, the more drunk and belligerent they may become. Arriving early also lets you see which girls came in with whom. You are then less likely to hit on someone's gf by mistake. Girls are also friendlier early on because they are bored and not swamped by guys. The downside is the girls are relatively sober because they have just started drinking.

2. Also, the sooner you can get the number or pull the girl from the bar, the better off you are. You don't want to stay until closing time. It's like a military exercise, sneak in behind enemy lines, complete the mission, and GET OUT before the enemy knows you're there lol.

3. Don't expect bouncers to protect you UNLESS you are really good friends with them. Most only want to pick up girls and couldn't care less about protecting male customers. Notwithstanding, if he seems like a decent guy, become a regular and chat him up. If you become good friends with him, then he's more inclined to look out for you.

4. Go to more expensive/mature places. What is the age range at the place you are going to? While we all like young hotties, to me, dealing with the 18 to 24 y/o guys is sometimes more trouble than its worth. No offense to the younger guys out there, but fights are less common at more mature places. Nice safe places include: hotel or casino bars/clubs, upscale lounges, etc.

5. I use the "non-reactive frame" a lot and it seems to work well. When some belligerent guy (or even your boss for that matter) is yelling at you, simply just look at them with a bored, blank look on your face and say nothing. This confuses the hell out of them. Most people either act cowardly and start apologizing, or yell back and escalate a bad situation. When you don't do either, it throws them off balance. The unspoken message with this frame is, "Dude, I'm not impressed. You're not scaring me. I'm not going to waste my time/breath on you." It's also based on the principle that someone can't keep yelling at you if you say nothing because they run out of steam. Plus it makes them look stupid and try-hard to everyone else. Furthermore, you CAN'T "win" an argument with a drunk belligerent punk. Whatever you say he will twist it around and use it as "justiifcation" to start a fight. There is one caveat though. If he is really close (i.e. in your face), be careful, his yelling may be a distraction so he can sucker punch you. Never let someone stay in your face for more than a few seconds.

5. Lastly, I would only fight as an absolute LAST resort and for self-defense ONLY. Never fight for ego or to impress some bar wh*re you just met that night. No piece of a** is worth you getting injured. If you have to walk away, run away, or just sit at the bar in front of the staff until the trouble-makers leave, then do so. Just be careful that they aren't waiting for you outside. Maybe call a friend (or several friends) and have them come pick you up and escort you out. Your safety is #1, picking up girls is a distant second.

Mike

^^Some great tips here.
To be fair the place sounds like a sh1thole, just go somewhere else man. Hotel bars are pretty cool, if you pull a guest you get a free room for the night......

 

[mrRuckus]

Many of those dudes like that have small penises
.

No they don't.

Silly female shaming 'joke.'

Meathead punks and their buddies tend to arrive late

More shaming. Sorry you aren't jacked too.

 

[Duffdog]

Does anyone know what constitutes self defense? Say I get punched and then I smash a beer bottle over the offenders head, do I go to jail even though its clearly self defense?

If you actually go to court, you have to claim equal force. Meaning, you both have to have the same class of weapon: Fist to fist, knife to knife, gun to gun. If you happen to be the guy with the deadlier weapon, its automatically not self defense. Yes, you go to jail for using pretty much anything as a weapon. And you still might have to go to court if you win and cause the other guy to go to the hospital.

I feel that I should probably chime in on this subject. I am not a small person, 6'2" 225 athletic. I have been in more fights at bars and streets than I know what to do with. When I was younger and bigger ( I used to wiegh 240 in 2004 ) I was a target for fights. It was as if other guys wanted to see if they could beat up a guy like me just to try it. I would just be standing there and someone would start a fight with me-- could be the gas station or a fancy nightclub or the parking lot at Denny's or whatever.

In my opinion, there are 2 ways to handle this. Most likely its a guy who is bigger than you trying to intimidate you, correct? In that case, I used to just stop, turn to face him and say "What do you want!?" You will get all sorts of words coming out of his mouth that don't mean anything-- at the end of it something along the lines of: "hey man, I don't know you, you don't know me so lets just chill" If its a drunk college athlete or something, I do anything to not fight, because they really don't want to fight, they just want to be physical and intense and impress someone (friends, GF). In that case, its never them picking a fight, its a misunderstanding and I have been known to say "sorry, dude, relax. I wasn't going to deck you or anything" If you do get into a fight with an athlete, they are usually on the defensive because they assumed that you wouldn't do anything to begin with.

Now, there is the other way of dealing with it. When you have NO choice and a group of dudes is planning on trying to beat your ass when you are by yourself. In that case, go for the leader. And when I say go for the leader I mean GO for the leader. If there is only one big guy in your face, he's the leader. Be the guy who started it-- no throwing up arms and yelling, just be mean and break his nose with no warning. Don't be afraid to get hit, cause you will. Especially if there is a group of them. This isn't the movies, if you deck someone in the nose-- they are on the ground blowing blood out of it, they are not still fighting you anymore. Most fighting only last 20 seconds or less and then ends up as wrestling on the floor or something. If you are the victor and you succeed, do not hang around. A dear friend of mine got shot at after he beat the crap out of 3 gang members in downtown sacramento.
I have had a gang member pull a gun on me after I smashed his friends face into a trailer hitch. But that situation is rare and won't happen inside a respectable bar, only on the street.


If you are super frustrated and actually mad at this guy-- just let it out. This is the third option and It does work. Face the guy and say "Fvcking hit me, you first, get this overwith, DO IT!" The fight typically ends before it begins if the other guy is concerned about you hurting him. A little side effect of this tactic, some girls are very turned on by bravery. You might just get laid from that girl you were talking to after doing this, and especially if she sees you standing up to someone bigger than you.

This is my advise on the subject. It feels much better to say "I Fvcking decked that fool!" than "I should have done something"

 

[christopher09]

Lmao

"Say I get punched and then I smash a beer bottle over the offenders head, do I go to jail even though its clearly self defense?"

oh man THAT WAS HALRIOUS!!!

Lightning...ill tell you, it mostly depends on the situation, presiding judge, and the extent of defense or injury. Let me explain, im at a bar with some friends a while back...we leave the bar..a guy and his buddy come whipping into the bar parking lot, and into a parking spot next to the entrance doorway and almost hit one of the guys who's with us. Obviously our friend takes offense to this and him and the driver start having words..the driver pops his trunk with car remote and states" F this i got something for you", so i walk to his trunk and shut it. Now the driver and our friend are arguing...they start fighting..our friend is on the ground, losing. I step in, and grab driver off friend. Driver steps away and is still huffing and shouting..u know the "who else wants some stuff etc.." as im helping my buddy up, he comes at me agressively(certainly had plans to sucker punch me)...and i stepped up. he squared up and so did i. he throws a punch and misses...i throw 1 ONE punch and knock him out standing up(could see eyes roll into head). This guy goes limp, falls backward like hawian punch man ansd hits his head on concrete. We walk away, go to breakfast. Police come(apparenty we were overheard inside the bar of where we were going to be eating). Cops says...u guys at the bar in a fight? The police matched license plate. I was initially charged with Attempted murder bcz of that one punch and im serious....listen...im getting booked and im like look, this is a joke. this guy was agressive to US, i used minimal force as he was about to punch me and then later did but missed...THE cops then says..."well, i understand but right now hes being airlifted to Univerisity of Michigan hospital and he may not make it. Turns out he had a broken cheek bone(from punch) and numerous skull fractures(from fall). In the end, it got plead down to a misdemeanor asssult....BUT we wanted to go to trial, however my lawyer, who was WELL PAID AND KNOWN, advised not to bcz the presiding judge was unpredicable. So moral to the story is, this cost me a boat load of money..and it was self defense by my standards and probably most here...but understand...every situation is different, but best to avoid the fighting man bcz, unless u have witnesses than can attest to what happened, yo dont necessarliy want to win lol.

 

[Jeremymichael]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your advise, very much welcomed. I'm off to the bar tonight hoping for some results.

This girl who I have been talking to will hopefully be there. We exchanged numbers a fews ago, she goes to this bar on sundays because of the live music. I am going to to ask her out on a date if everything goes well. The problem with having these drunken yobs is that it puts me off my game. I'm hoping they will not be there.

Its looking quite hopeful, last sunday I was in Switzerland on business and the girl in question sent me a text message " Hi how you dong, wondered where you are tonight, how are you?, wondered if you coming down the band is playing".

I'm getting to an age where I find drunken people very annoying and a bit imature. I guess if it goes wrong tonight I will move on from this bar, and inform her of this and suggest meeting up elsewhere in the future.

Wish me luck

 

[Bible_Belt]

Street fighting is dumb, but at the same time, everyone would be better off to at least train a little self-defense.

I train in mma with the best dojo of cage fighters around. It is always some unfortunate guys who pick fights with them. A lot of fighters are not very big guys, so they sometimes get picked on by bullies who don't know any better. One of my friends was being picked on at a construction site at lunch by a big guy who told him he was too little to be a cage fighter, so my buddy jumped on his back and literally put him to sleep with a rear naked choke. That guy woke up later to all of his friends staring down at him in horror. Our smallest guy got challenged to a fight in public by a guy who wanted to fight him because he heard that he was a fighter. Our guy walked away, and did not want to fight. Then as his back was turned getting into his car, that guy pushed him and his girlfriend against the car and started swinging...and within a few seconds the fighter who didn't want to fight was sitting on his chest punching him in the face. Both of these guys were under 150 pounds and beating up big bullies.

Train just a little, and that will help you a lot. You learn to fight so that you don't have to fight, but it does come in handy when you do.

 

[christopher09]

I'm a pretty serious recreational boxer and have practised martial arts all my life.

Doesn't mean i go around knocking people out or starting fights, i don't. I do whatever is necessary to avoid fights, only hitting someone if hit first.

But it has given me a level of confidence that says to others "don't **** with this guy". I'm not overly big or muscular but how you carry yourself determines if you can be pushed around or not.

If i encounter any bullies, i usually say in a very calm but commanding voice "look pal, i'm not here for any trouble, just here to have a good time with my mates, let me buy you a drink". almost all cases, the agro is diffused. The few times the bullies kept coming forward, i use a self defence technique called the fence which shows to any security cameras that you are the one trying to diffuse the fight and avoid trouble, then if they throw a punch, i drop them. Had to do that a few times in the last few years. In all cases i wasn't charged by the cops even though the other guy was a mess and i was unharmed.

That is interesting Peter...can you tell us a brief description of "the fence". Im assuming you're putting your arms out as to signify an invisible line of personal space not to be xrossed...?

 

[thedeparted]

Imagine you got a 2" snubby on your ankle. How would you respond to the bully?

I'll tell you: You don't give a ****. You don't feel fear. You don't feel any need to prove yourself. You're just like "okay, sorry dude" and you move away. Sincere. Uninvolved. Uninterested.

But if this happens again then don't just imagine it. Wear it. A bottle or even a fist can be a deadly weapon. Not to mention a knife. You owe it to yourself and your girl to have some .38+P hollow points on your side if the bully turns into a bad guy.

 

[backbreaker]

weights.. they are your friend.

I'm not Jay Culter or anything but i'm big enough where you will think twice about stepping to me... which has it's perks.

 

[Jeremymichael]

Thanks for the advice everyone. There was only one clown in the bar last night. On the whole a nice set of educated people with live music. Unfortunately one meat head came in about 10-30pm. Not a big guy, quite short about 5ft 4 but pretty muscular. He was extremely drunk, aged about late twenties, and suprisingly they served him. He was exactly the kind of the thing I'm trying to avoid, loud, drunk, swearing and generally making a nuisance of himself. I think he is on pub watch, and at one stage he came over and said you've become fat. Quiet funny really because I don't know him and if anything I've lost weight. Later on as he was barging in on peoples conversation he came over again said, do you want trouble buddy?. I said no and he said well give us a kiss then brother and then proceeded to kiss me on the cheek. Eventually he was asked to leave as he became aggressive, at one point starting on some older boy of about 60. Pathetic. The scary thing for me is that some of these characters could be high on drugs, and it's not worth the confrontation, but it does ruin the evening. I wonder what he would have said if I had tackled him head on?!!!. By the way I'm about 6ft 3, fairly big, maybe a little overweight, so was not too scared of him.

 

[kingwilliam]

I would grab one by the ****ing throat and squeeze until his pathetic body collapsed to the floor.

Seriously, people like that piss me off.

 

[Flatnose]

My old man was in the forces. Every two years I was thrown into another school playground and had to deal with the school bullies. When I left school, I was often targeted because I wore glasses. I have forgotten the number of fights I have been involved with when younger. During my early thirties I had three serious street fights. All three lasted less than a minute (one was against two guys) and I was the victor in all. This is what I have learnt in my time. Also I am only 5'10 and 11 stone...but no fat. I am also a mental health nurse, have been in charge of 32 seriously ill young men all convicted of violent crimes and used to dealing with angry males...always, always attempt to deescalate before you resort to violence, often they do not want to fight either.

1) The larger man will almost always defeat a smaller opponent of equal skill/fitness. They can take more damage. If deescalation doesn't work and you cannot walk out of the situation, bluff and posture your opponent to the edge and attack with all your heart if the situation demands it...don't go in half hearted but...before making that decision remember one punch can sometimes kill a man...sometimes it just ain't worth it.

2) Learn how and where to punch. Best way is to go down a boxing club and train on a heavy bag. Aim for the nose or the point of the jaw and as you throw your right, twist your right foot on its ball, rotating your hip forward as you throw. Combinations are also good. I took a big bastard down with a jab on the nose and then two rights to the point of the jaw...very satisfying as he was a bully and at least three stones heavier than me (however he had no talent but looked intimidating).

3) Have a physical boundary and once they cross it in their aggression lamp them...then you have one of two scenarios. They either drop or they don't...either way if you have hit them right they will be stunned. If they are still standing you have a choice...lamp them again or briskly walk out the door, (heh, or lamp them again and then walk out the door) as soon as you are out of sight run as fast as you can...cos their mates may be behind you...make your decision quickly and stick to it.

3) Get fit and do weights, do a dangerous port, climbing, potholing, keeps you cool under pressure and you can often used your relaxed state to deescalate/chill out the aggressor.

4) Lean some simple but effective ju-jitsu. I had a guy attack me when I was sitting down with my back to him. He just started flailing blows on me because I refused to give my gf's chair to him while she was in the bathroom. I was able to look at his feet, work out his centre-line line leading to his groin and elbowed him in the genitals...he flew back and somersaulted over a table...he was immobilised for more than enough time for me to finish my drink, my woman to come back from the toilet and for me to then escort her out of the pub slowly with dignity. She never knew what had happened, but did comment on why people were looking at me. That bloke was never able to look into my eyes again. Ju-jitsu throat work is effective and simple to learn...you can often use that to get past an aggressive male in order to reach an exit and walk away.

5) Remember there are dudes out there who have made a science of how to take you apart... do not rush into violence.

6) Read Sun Tzu: The Art of War. I had a paratrooper friend who was challenged in a pub by the local bully. He walked away but then observed the guys habits, hid behind the guys back door in winter, when the guy came out in the early morning he threw a black bag over the guys head and whacked him around the knee with a hammer. The bully pissed himself with fear and had no proof who had done the crime although enough clues were dropped so he had an idea.

7) Women are more interested in how you protect/defend them from danger than how hard you are...getting your woman out of a sticky situation, scores more points than brawling because your ego has been insulted.

 

[The_411]

Bottomline if you being acosted at your nightlife spots you need to find better spots because while there are always drunken idiots they're not as concentrated where there are filters/barriers to entry and their behavior is not tolerated.

 

[Borknagar]

Oh jeeze, guys with smart mouths at the bar, annoying. Especially if you're talking to a chick, even if she comes to you they love to get in the way. If it really is there girlfriend, and they respectfully tell you so, and keep it cool it's fine, if they are a douche, you can let them know of their insecurities in from of their women heh heh. If they're the violent when they're drunk type, let the bouncers do their job, assuming they know how appropriately. If it comes to throwing down, do so in self defense, especially if there are witnesses. I don't have ANY REMORSE WHAT SO EVER, so ANY kind of physical injury someone gets if they are the angry I wanna fight drunk type, they deserve, even if it involves getting themselves killed, though I would never go that far for obvious reason( they aren't worth it). Cause if they were any kind of decent human being, they would know drinking is a problem for them and they get that way.

I usually don't get into it with too many males, and when I do it's small and I'm like whatever go **** yourself. I've never been kicked out for fighting, but have seen bouncers pull a couple people out for trying to start with me. Like once I was gaming some chicks and some douche came up and said "Hey get away they're not interested" in a rude tone, I simply shoved his ass to the ground, hell they started talking to me, so go **** yourself, LOL. Bouncers came over but seemed more interested in keeping him at bey than me, probably cause they seem him provoke it I don't know.

Another time I walk walking of a bar and a girl comes up to me tells me I'm cute we start making out, and start talking and some idiot comes up and says shes not interested, obviously he just wanted to **** block. Would have probably thrown him to the ground but there were police near by, no thanks.

I can keep my cool for the most part, bouncers do sometimes hit a nerve with me when they try to be badass and take their job too far, but they have other bouncers and club management on their side, not worth it.

Had one random jackass come slap me at the bar, couldn't do much as there was a bouncer right behind him that through his ass out. Thanked the bouncer cause I didn't wanna deal with it, I'm there to enjoy myself, simple as that. I could have EASILY taken the idiot out(he was like 5'5 skinny, I'm 6'2 kinda buff).

One douche got up and literally puked on me with all the intentions. I told him to back the **** up, unless he wants to get hurt, in a firm yet calm voice, he was obviously wasted, yelling at me calling me a ****** and a fag. Bouncers grabbed him and police took him away. That guy kinda struck a nerve with being such a idiot,especially when it caused my chick of the night to run off.
Don't really have any major stories though, only punched a dude once I knew back when we got into it cause he wouldn't calm down, he went down fast and got thrown out cause he hit me first, I was cut off, but it was fine cause it was a near a camp ground I was drinkin at anyway so I never got anything there but chicken wings, I ****ed him up pretty good lol.