Biceps.. are not working properly?

[al77]

I started working out biceps just two months ago (didn't work out before). I do a preacher curl on two different machines.

The odd thing is that the most part of the biceps are never sore or tired. But muscles next to the inner elbow, i.e. lower part of the bicep and other muscles in the forearm are very sore.

This figure showes the part of the bicep that is sore:
http://www.gwc.maricopa.edu/class/bio201/muscle/arm/frma.htm

Am I doing somehting wrong? I guess I should feel sore in the whole biceps and not only next to the elbow.
Any advice?

 

[Shiftkey]

You might just have weak forearms so your forarms feel more sore than your biceps. Most likely though, I'd guess that you're not doing good exercises. Try using free weights instead of machines. You also should work your entire body and not just your biceps. Stress to your entire body (especially your legs) tends to help overall muscle growth. Don't neglect your triceps either - I see guys focus so much on biceps to get bigger arms when the tricep takes up twice as much space

 

[Criminal Mind]

Have a go with barbell bicep curls. Choose a weight that you can to 8-12 reps and go till failure. Do three sets.


The go down about 10KG and keep doing until faiure (you should be able to fit in 20 reps)


You'll definitely feel the burn.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Criminal Mind
Have a go with barbell bicep curls. Choose a weight that you can to 8-12 reps and go till failure. Do three sets.

The go down about 10KG and keep doing until faiure (you should be able to fit in 20 reps)
You'll definitely feel the burn.

I feel the burn, a lot. But it is all concentrated ONLY in the small part of the biceps which is next to elbows, and in forearms next to elbows.
No matter what weight I choose, if I do a drop set or not - still I feel teh burn only in those parts of the muscles, and never in the biceps.

I am assuming that I'll just have to continue doing what I am doing until forearms would not lag?

 

[Criminal Mind]

Sounds like it. If you're going till failure, just make sure you are doing it with correct form. It's not how much you lift but how you lift it.

Don't rock your body, straight back, and keep your elbows tucked in.

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by Criminal Mind
Have a go with barbell bicep curls. Choose a weight that you can to 8-12 reps and go till failure. Do three sets.


The go down about 10KG and keep doing until faiure (you should be able to fit in 20 reps)


You'll definitely feel the burn.

That's too much volume. One rest-paused set to failure of a curl (EG barbell curl, preacher curl) and one rest-paused set to failure of a compound bicep-back workout (I.E. chins, rack chins) should be enough. And by rest paused, I mean DC style.

 

[al77]

Is it true that the first half of preacher curl when you start the rep and up to the middle of it works out lower part of biceps and the other "higher" half from the middle to the end of it works out the higher part of biceps next to shoulders?

 

[DonJuanMonk]

I think you're lifting too fast.

 

[bcherb2]

Originally posted by MetalFortress
That's too much volume. One rest-paused set to failure of a curl (EG barbell curl, preacher curl) and one rest-paused set to failure of a compound bicep-back workout (I.E. chins, rack chins) should be enough. And by rest paused, I mean DC style.

2 sets total to get your biceps sore???
When I used to do biceps it'd take me like 10 sets and burnouts to get them nice and sore the next day. Thank god I gave up doing biceps

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by bcherb2
2 sets total to get your biceps sore???
When I used to do biceps it'd take me like 10 sets and burnouts to get them nice and sore the next day. Thank god I gave up doing biceps

Rest pause is this...

Go til failure. Take about 15 breaths, and go to failure again. Take about 15 breaths and go to failure again.

That's one set. If that doesn't make you sore, you aren't doing it right. And burnouts are a joke. Everyone who gets sore off of burnouts, strangely never experiences any real bicep growth. Conversely, nobody with 19 inch arms does burnouts.

Get strong and you'll get big. If you get to the point where you can BB curl 160 pounds for 15 reps with good form, trust me, your biceps will be massive.

 

[al77]

I think I got it

I guess I found the answer what was happening.

Look at this pic and the comment:
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachialis.html

What they are saying is the brachialis becomes more readily activated during isometric elbow flexion. By isometric they mean
static tension which is hannpeing during exercies using machines.

"During a dynamic elbow flexion, the biceps is more readily activated than the brachialis." Essentially it means during exercises using free weights.

I have been doing biceps curl using different machines, not using free weights and my brachialis was very sore, but biceps didn't feel much at all.
So my conclusion it is much better to use free weights (well known thing anyway) for biceps exercises since machine target a small muscle brachialis insted of the bicep.
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachialis.html

 

[AgonyUncle]

Machines are the enemy. Hammer Strength is a different story, but your best bet, not just for arms but your entire body, is to use free weights as often as possible.

If you looking to put a bit of size on your biceps, you need to curl!!!! Barbell or dumbell, but curl, and curl heavy. Bench press is to chest what deadlifts are to back what barbell curls are to biceps. Make them a staple in your routine.

 

[Centaurion]

There is no relation between 'the burn' and how well you hit a mucsle. Same thing with soreness. I rarely do any direct biceps work, maybe a set or two of BB curls a week.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Actually, as my powerlifting coach once said...

If you ever fawking do Bicep Exercises here, don't ever come back again, because I'll kick your azz.

And most PL'ers feel the same way.

My buddy who's on gear has the same misconception.

How little is the bicep muscle when compared to OTHER muscles on the body? Pretty small. Plus it doesn't contribute much to the size of the arm.

The real trick is doing larger compound movements, since the bicep will get lots of work in back movements, IF, you're doing them heavy enough.

When doing pulldowns-behind the neck or bent-over rows, or deadlifts, you'll feel it. No problem there. 30lb db curls, or 70lb preacher curls, won't do what good deadlifts, pulldowns, bentovers, and the like will do to build your arms.

I say this because:

strength = size.

Not trying to rip your workout to pieces, but the fact is, I'm not going to bullshyt that "it's only a slight modification in the angle by which you do biceps" that will change the burn. I agree, bicep work by db's can get very warped, and bicep work has its place, but by and large, if your body lifts more, you are bigger. If your chest lifts more, triceps grew. They have to, they support every other movement the body does. That's the beauty of compound movements.

Problem is, you can work your tri's, shoulders, and bi's and never see growth. My Powerlifting coach, rarely did any bicep exercises, only as he needed if his deadlifts were stuck, and he sported 17" guns @ 50+. Here was a guy 5'6" or so. He could bench like crazy, but deads weren't his forte since he was sort short, he didn't get the leverage a larger person can get.

Just my thoughts, but it isn't sets, or or angles, or how you execute, it's philosophy on strength.

If I do bi's, I do machine curls with a barbell and go with a 8-10 negative, and blast up with about 100+ for around 10 reps. Then I stop and go again. I do this for 2 rest pauses, and effectively 3 sets. Each week I try to get higher in weight, and just push myself more. I don't count them as sets, and it's modified DC because the gym I attend doesn't have a rack squat so I have to modify everything right now. But I get tons of work from pulldowns, bentover rows, and deads, so by the time I get to bi's, they're already done.



A-Unit

 

[GropeDope]

Yes, A-Unit is 100% correct. You don't need to do curls for your biceps to grow.

Drop the bullsh!t with the preacher curls, and do 3 sets of underhand grip chin-ups (aka pull-ups with your palms facing you). Afterwards just do rows (dumbbell or barbell) for 3 sets of 8.

For the rows, all of the sets have to be done to failure, and you should use a weight that makes you fail by the 7th or 8th rep each set (obviously).

For the chin ups, just do as many as you can for each set until you fail. If you manage to do more than 10 or 12, put on a weight belt next time.

Those two exercises will give you ALL the bicep work you need as long as you put all your effort into every set. It's all about compound exercises, biatch. Forget about the isolated sh!t

 

[MindOverMatter]

next time you do bicep curls, look at your wrist. do bend your wrist upwards on every curl? many people do this and it's why they feel this elbow soreness. they overinvolve their flexors during the curl movement.

if it's not that, then I don't know. try doing less sets (I don't know how many you do).

however, if you want your biceps to grow, I'd recommend focusing on chin-ups (first with body weight, then by adding weigths to your dip belt), and heavy barbell rows.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by GropeDope
Yes, A-Unit is 100% correct. You don't need to do curls for your biceps to grow.

Drop the bullsh!t with the preacher curls, and do 3 sets of underhand grip chin-ups (aka pull-ups with your palms facing you). Afterwards just do rows (dumbbell or barbell) for 3 sets of 8.

I am doing pull-ups, since I am very light weighted\very small frame (155-160lb, 5'10'', about 16% BF) I can do about 6 pull-ups and maybe 8-10 chin-ups.
If I continue doing more of them the biceps will see just more reps out of 10-12 range. Which I guess is not very beneficial.
I am a bit lazy to get a weight belt and carry weight from the other side of the gym: it'd take me like 4 min for one set and about 3 min carry the weight back..

So I am going to do chin-ups, but not for biceps, I guess it is not going to work for me.

I do rows, it is working well, i.e. I have gains, but what I feel is biceps are not working much, lats do most of the work.

So I am going to stick to barbell curls for a while, athough still I feel like every other muscle is working except themiddle part of the biceps.I think I'll have to wait for other muscle to catch up.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
next time you do bicep curls, look at your wrist. do bend your wrist upwards on every curl? many people do this and it's why they feel this elbow soreness. they overinvolve their flexors during the curl movement.

however, if you want your biceps to grow, I'd recommend focusing on chin-ups (first with body weight, then by adding weigths to your dip belt), and heavy barbell rows.

Yes, at first I did bend my wrists. Sure it contributed.
But later I switched to a different bicpe curl machine where you cannot even bend your wrists: it has two handles which are parralel to the body (instead of a bar), so basically there is not much freedom to bend anything.
Still lowe biceps is sore and tired as hell, the middle biceps do not feel anything, at least they recover too quickly.
I am doing barbell curls, hoping evenutaly it will fix the problem.

I do dumbell rows, one dumbell at a time which is more heavy than a barbell I'd use.
Target muscles feel right, but I don't enough grip to hold the dumbell for long, and it seems it is a bit heavy for my untrained frame: the should give me very odd feelings.
Should I just wear gloves with wrist bands to strengethn my grip and continue?

Chinups seems easy for the biceps (lats are doing more work), but weighted chinups are too time consuming, can't I simply supplement it with standing barbell curls?

 

[Double]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
next time you do bicep curls, look at your wrist. do bend your wrist upwards on every curl? many people do this and it's why they feel this elbow soreness. they overinvolve their flexors during the curl movement.

if it's not that, then I don't know. try doing less sets (I don't know how many you do).

however, if you want your biceps to grow, I'd recommend focusing on chin-ups (first with body weight, then by adding weigths to your dip belt), and heavy barbell rows.

whats up Mind hows the DC training going so far? good to see a sign of life from you

 

[AgonyUncle]

Re: Re:

Originally posted by A-Unit


Not trying to rip your workout to pieces, but the fact is, I'm not going to bullshyt that "it's only a slight modification in the angle by which you do biceps" that will change the burn. I agree, bicep work by db's can get very warped, and bicep work has its place, but by and large, if your body lifts more, you are bigger. If your chest lifts more, triceps grew. They have to, they support every other movement the body does. That's the beauty of compound movements.

Problem is, you can work your tri's, shoulders, and bi's and never see growth. My Powerlifting coach, rarely did any bicep exercises, only as he needed if his deadlifts were stuck, and he sported 17" guns @ 50+. Here was a guy 5'6" or so. He could bench like crazy, but deads weren't his forte since he was sort short, he didn't get the leverage a larger person can get.

Just my thoughts, but it isn't sets, or or angles, or how you execute, it's philosophy on strength.

If I do bi's, I do machine curls with a barbell and go with a 8-10 negative, and blast up with about 100+ for around 10 reps. Then I stop and go again. I do this for 2 rest pauses, and effectively 3 sets. Each week I try to get higher in weight, and just push myself more. I don't count them as sets, and it's modified DC because the gym I attend doesn't have a rack squat so I have to modify everything right now. But I get tons of work from pulldowns, bentover rows, and deads, so by the time I get to bi's, they're already done.



A-Unit [/B]

You cannot compare powerlifting to Bodybuilding. Ill agree that there is arm and delt/trap growth with all upper body compund movements. And I will agree that if you are pulling/pushing more weight consistently, you have put on more muscle.

But strength training is totally different in aim and outcome IMHO.

If you are doing triceps on your chest day, or biceps on your back day, you are wasting your time. Bottom line, if you are training at the correct intensity level, your biceps are going to be cooked after a decent back workout. Same goes for Chest and Triceps on the same day.

Your arms (like calves, and delts to a smaller extent) require less recovery time as you gain more experience. You can train them more often. Powerlifters need more rest then bodybuilders, simply because of the weight that they are throwing around and with the rep ranges that they use. Most powerlifters I know work on a 3 day split, 4 day max if they are juiced.

As for never seeing growth by working your tri's and bi's as a seperate group, I have to disagree. Adequate rest and an smart training split will help you reach your goals that much quicker, without putting too much strain on the body.

I believe AL77's problem is 3 fold.

1) Form is a problem
2) Still a bit inexperienced. Some people take time adapting to certain exercises, and it can put strain on joints/tendons that will improve over time
3) His routine is not correct. I just wish some of these "personal trainers" at the gyms would spend more time encouraging people to use free weights instead of machines. Machines have their place, but free weights are vital for any beginner if they want their body to adjust and adapt quickly.