Best Places to Live in Europe?

~attrACTION~

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I think I want to move to Europe, for a couple years or permanently. Either right after I graduate college or a year after. I'm considering France, England, or Germany. Possibly other countries as well, as long as I can find a job.

The thing is, I am not sure what kind of jobs are available in these countries. How do I find out about the job markets, real estate, lifestyles, etc? Sure, there is Google, but if someone could recommend good websites to start, that would be great.

To everyone who lives in Europe, how do you like it? What are some great places to live? What is the process to become a citizen of another country, etc?

Sparky talks a lot about Ukraine - is it actually a good place to live? How is the job market, what is the typical occupation, industry like there? I really want to find out more about life in European countries.

I'm not moving for the women though, not at all. Although that could be one of the benefits. However, I want to move because from what I see, the European quality of life is more relaxed, and life seems more simple over there. I just want to see what it's all about.
 

Adone

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If you are not moving for the women, I don't think you would like Ukraine.

I can tell you about Italy, which sùcks a lot, except for Sardinia.

I think your best chance is to stay in America, unless you're like broke or something. America is the best place on earth, IMO
 

Rudra

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Come to St. Petersburg. One of the most beautiful cities of the world, and you´re in London, Paris, Berlin in 2h flight time, and lots of low cost airlines flying to and fro.
East European chicks in their natural environment are great. Mentioned that several times already. No emancipation whatsof0ckingever, no role mixup of men acting female and women growing balls. In a way, DJ bootcamp on the level of a whole country))) acting wimpy you won´t get the time of day from chicks here.
Minus - long cold winter, but as I said you can fly out anytime. Second minus - the city has become frigging expensive, last rating - 12th expensive city of the world. But apart from that - great.
 

CGE333

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Not sure what kind of job you are looking for when you get there, but one of my best friends moved to Grenoble, France around 11 months ago. He loves it. If I remember correctly the beach is around 90 minutes in one direction, close by in another direction is Italy. He said that Grenoble is like the tech center of France, similar to our Silicon Valley with all the tech companies. Not to move there or anything, put I plan on going there next year to check it and other parts of Europe out as I have never been.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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It really depends on the lifestyle that you want to lead. I enjoy the urban lifestyle of the UK, the passionate style of Italy and the serene laid back style of Spain. You should figure out the type of life you'd like to lead and find out which areas that lead that quality of life but also allows you to sustain it.
 

sparky0000

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Adone said:
If you are not moving for the women, I don't think you would like Ukraine.

I can tell you about Italy, which sùcks a lot, except for Sardinia.

I think your best chance is to stay in America, unless you're like broke or something. America is the best place on earth, IMO
I have yet to hear any heterosexual guy proclaim that America is the place to be (at least among those who have done some travelling). America is for gay men. I am VERY serious about that.

Ukraine is MUCH more than just girls. Obviously you have never been.

How in the hell would you know what somebody would like? My parents wouldn't have thought I would have loved Ukraine. How are you able to tell some dude from an Internet forum what he would like?

My only advice is to do SOMETHING. Sitting on your a$$ doesn't cut it. Go to the bookstore and buy some language books. Go visit websites from other countries. Quit MySpace. Every country has a similar social networking portal. If you are serious about leaving you should start now. Dedicate all of your free time to finding a place that you would like. Others won't know what is right for you. If you find yourself wanting to go out on Friday night with friends - DON'T! Stay home or go to the bookstore. You must start NOW. That is the only way you will ever do it. The idea is to build up so much momentum that you can't stop.

The benefits of much of Eastern Europe is that it will un-DJ you. It will make you into a tougher man whose last concern is getting a female. Cute boys in flip-flops get s***! Six pack abs will get squat! Being around wealthy thugs in fancy luxury cars/suvs will force you to act with more authority. If you don't, you will feel like a little ant among anteaters. After a month "in country" you will have more confidence than you could have ever had imagined. That will help you when you go back home to visit. You will be more focused. Trust me, if you go to a place like Ukraine you WILL come back. I have yet to meet one Western male that hasn't or isn't planning to come back. Whatever you do, DON'T neg girls. DON'T expect them to pay for things. Treat them well. All of this feminist crap that guys on here spout is foolish. I will ALWAYS pay for a date. I will ALWAYS give her a rose. I will ALWAYS hold the door for her and take her coat. In saying that, she won't look or act like anything that most of you see at your schools :crackup: .

Did you boys know that not all of us in Ukraine are old bald dudes with big stomachs? You might be surprised ;) .
 

mahon83050

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That depends on what you look like Attraction.

If you are a minority or look Mediterrenean (like myself) you might be treated differently by the local population.

I look Italian and can pass for many other things (including Turkish, whom the Germans loathe) and I swear it affected the way I was treated while living in Berlin, Germany.

I don't think Italians, Greeks, Armenians, Turks etc. are considered "white" in some of the Northern European or Eastern European countries.

I would say, England would be the best. Great history, but bad weather.
 

SmoothTalker

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I've done a fair bit of traveling in Europe, and also lived both in Canada and Moscow, so I suppose I am somewhat qualified to make some suggestions.

First of all, if you currently live in North America, no matter where you go in Europe be prepared for an adjustment.

In Western Europe people have good lifestyles, but not in the way many Americans think of it. Be prepared for a LOT more taxation and government regulation. Be prepared for much smaller living spaces (the homes we have in Canada and the states are mansions compared to what most Europeans live in.) Likewise, if you're a fan of big cars like SUV's, it might not be the place for you, and in fact in most countries in Europe you can get by just fine on public transit alone. This is great in many ways, but takes some getting used to as these things are on set routes and schedules, so you can't just get up and go wherever/whenever.

The upside of Europe is that with less effort put into getting material goods, you have more free time. As the saying goes, Europeans work to live, Americans live to work.

Personally from what I've been hearing of in terms of government in the UK lately it is not very promising in terms of mens rights/feminism, etc, so I would stay away. Besides, the UK is the most America-like place in Europe, so why go there if you're looking for a change.

As for Eastern Europe, frankly I think you would be shocked. When my family first moved to Canada, I always use to yearn to go back to Russia. However, last summer I went for a 2 week visit, and if it wasn't for the fact that all of my extended family is still there, I doubt I would ever go back.

For eastern Europe, take everything I've said about the smaller spaces and cars, and times it by 2. The vast majority of the population in cities lives in small apartments, and unless you're making some serious $$, these are very, very small. Lets just say that most apartments have futons instead of couches in the living room, because usually there just aren't enough rooms for everyone, and the rooms are too small to sleep multiple people in them.

Also, it is dirty. Nobody gives a **** about the environment, they still think it is inexhaustible. Outside of the business district of Moscow and St. Petersburg, its not uncommon to have to walk through mud and huge puddles, garbage, dog crap, etc. There's also something about the gasoline they burn there, that just smells so toxic. At first I thought it was just inefficient old cars, but then I noticed that even new foreign cars like a Ford Focus smell the same.

On the bright side, government regulation and taxes are pretty much nonexistent, if you like that freedom. On the downside, there's rampant corruption, and since nobody cares, there's vandalism, drunk people and kids on the street any time of day, etc.

Also if you are planning to move to Eastern Europe, make sure you have a GOOD job. There is virtually no middle class, you are either so poor that you as a sheltered north American can't imagine, or you're quite well off. The people I know there with good jobs frankly have more disposable income than most people here, because again, taxes are nonexistent, rent is pretty cheap (for the tiny apartments of course), and many other expenses are very low too. For example, car insurance is pennies compared to here, and if you get a speeding ticket, 50 rubles (about $2.50) is usually enough.

So there you have it, sorry if it got a bit long.
If you aren't a seasoned traveler, I would recommend Western Europe, unless you're either looking for a COMPLETE change, or really interested in a challenge.

Just be prepared with some of the things I mentioned about Western Europe. Still, it is a good place to live, though so is America, so it really depends on what you're looking for, as other people have said. If you want laid back, try southern Europe. Hard working? try Germany. The great thing about Europe compared to North American is that they have dozens of countries while we have 3. And each of their countries has a unique culture and attitude, so just figure out what you're looking for, and the right country will become pretty clear.
 

Bible_Belt

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what kind of jobs are available in these countries.

Assuming that you are not an EU citizen, you need the EU equivalent of a Green Card to be able to legally work. I don't think that's especially easy to get. What you can do is get a job for a U.S. company that pays you to work someplace in Europe. Such a scenario, I don't think, requires the 'green card' type of papers (obviously, double-check that). You might consider teaching English as a foreign language or somehow making use of being a fluent English speaker.
 

Gaucho

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Barcelona and Paris, two best cities in Europe I beleive.
 

TheoTiger

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Attraction, do you speak another language than English ?
Although many Europeans are becoming more and more bilingual, it most certainly does not apply to everybody. I found that in France (where they are especially proud of their language, which is really beautiful) and Spain most students I met hardly spoke any English at all and if it was the case, their level of English speaking was very poor.

Trust me, if you won't be able to communicate with the people around you, you better prepare yourself for some very frustrating moments.
 

Adone

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sparky0000 said:
I have yet to hear any heterosexual guy proclaim that America is the place to be (at least among those who have done some travelling). America is for gay men. I am VERY serious about that.

Ukraine is MUCH more than just girls. Obviously you have never been.

How in the hell would you know what somebody would like? My parents wouldn't have thought I would have loved Ukraine. How are you able to tell some dude from an Internet forum what he would like?

My only advice is to do SOMETHING. Sitting on your a$$ doesn't cut it. Go to the bookstore and buy some language books. Go visit websites from other countries. Quit MySpace. Every country has a similar social networking portal. If you are serious about leaving you should start now. Dedicate all of your free time to finding a place that you would like. Others won't know what is right for you. If you find yourself wanting to go out on Friday night with friends - DON'T! Stay home or go to the bookstore. You must start NOW. That is the only way you will ever do it. The idea is to build up so much momentum that you can't stop.

The benefits of much of Eastern Europe is that it will un-DJ you. It will make you into a tougher man whose last concern is getting a female. Cute boys in flip-flops get s***! Six pack abs will get squat! Being around wealthy thugs in fancy luxury cars/suvs will force you to act with more authority. If you don't, you will feel like a little ant among anteaters. After a month "in country" you will have more confidence than you could have ever had imagined. That will help you when you go back home to visit. You will be more focused. Trust me, if you go to a place like Ukraine you WILL come back. I have yet to meet one Western male that hasn't or isn't planning to come back. Whatever you do, DON'T neg girls. DON'T expect them to pay for things. Treat them well. All of this feminist crap that guys on here spout is foolish. I will ALWAYS pay for a date. I will ALWAYS give her a rose. I will ALWAYS hold the door for her and take her coat. In saying that, she won't look or act like anything that most of you see at your schools :crackup: .

Did you boys know that not all of us in Ukraine are old bald dudes with big stomachs? You might be surprised ;) .

You didn't get me. What I mean is, the lifestyle in the USA is a lot better than in Ukraine, that is a fact. Do you think that Ukrainian clubs are comparable to NY's, LA's or Miami's? Do you think that you could find the same variety of ambients that you find in the States (desert, woods, mountains, ocean) in Ukraine?

If my reasoning is wrong, then why TONS of eastern europe billionaires move to the USA and basically none of american billionaires move to Ukraine?
 

SmoothTalker

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Haha very true TheoTiger. I had to deal with the same thing only worse when I first came to Canada. I spoke no English, and unlike Europeans, most North Americans don't give a **** about being bilingual. The few Canadians that are, speak French, which didn't really help me much.

On the bright side, you get very good at using gesturing and body language to get your message across.
 

DrMetallica

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I am an EU citizen and am convinced Vienna is the best Western European city to live in and Prague is the best Eastern European city to live in (even though Vienna is actually east of Prague!!).

I believe it is difficult now to become a EU citizen through naturalisation. Places like the UK and ROI now said one of your parents has to be a British/Irish citizen in order to for you to become a citizen, no longer just being born in that country qualifies for citizenship. Some places in the EU though are filled with non-European descendant peoples such as in London or Paris so if you are interested you might want to figure out how they did it. Also some countries however have liberal "citizenship by descent" laws, such as Ireland or Greece, so if your immediate ancestors are from those countries you should contact their consulates for more information. Also remember that once you become a citizen of one EU country, you become a citizen of them all, with privileges to work, live, and vote in whatever EU country you want...
 

bigappledj

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DrMetallica said:
I am an EU citizen and am convinced Vienna is the best Western European city to live in and Prague is the best Eastern European city to live in (even though Vienna is actually east of Prague!!).

I believe it is difficult now to become a EU citizen through naturalisation. Places like the UK and ROI now said one of your parents has to be a British/Irish citizen in order to for you to become a citizen, no longer just being born in that country qualifies for citizenship. Some places in the EU though are filled with non-European descendant peoples such as in London or Paris so if you are interested you might want to figure out how they did it. Also some countries however have liberal "citizenship by descent" laws, such as Ireland or Greece, so if your immediate ancestors are from those countries you should contact their consulates for more information. Also remember that once you become a citizen of one EU country, you become a citizen of them all, with privileges to work, live, and vote in whatever EU country you want...
Not true. The newer EU member countries do not have those rigths. This is only is for the wealthy older member countries. Prague is a Central European city. Czechs will tell you that they are not Eastern.
 

Adone

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bigappledj said:
Not true. The newer EU member countries do not have those rigths. This is only is for the wealthy older member countries. Prague is a Central European city. Czechs will tell you that they are not Eastern.

That's not true, even Bulgarian and Romanian citizens can now work and live all over the EU.

Even the second sentence is not true, since Central Europe is a geographic definition, while we are talking about socio-economic topics, which see the Europe usually divided in 2 branches: Western Europe and Eastern Europe, divided by the old iron curtain, period.
 

DrMetallica

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There are temporary work restrictions that member states can place on new member states... it just means that people will need a work permit just like before. The restrictions last for 2 years, then can be renewed for 3 years, then can be renewed again for another 2 years, but after that, labour markets are open. Germany, Austria and the UK opted in to these for example, however, that is just work... you can still live/study/visit in any EU country you want
 

bigappledj

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A Romanian cannot get a job in most of EU. This is just not possible. This is totally false information. They will never be able to get a work permit. Baltic countries can get jobs in Ireland and Scotland now. They cannot get work in places like France and Italy. They still do not have EU passports. Try to come from Romania to Germany. You see how easy you have it to get into the country.
 

Adone

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bigappledj said:
A Romanian cannot get a job in most of EU. This is just not possible. This is totally false information. They will never be able to get a work permit. Baltic countries can get jobs in Ireland and Scotland now. They cannot get work in places like France and Italy. They still do not have EU passports. Try to come from Romania to Germany. You see how easy you have it to get into the country.

You can be sure that Romanians and Bulgarians can now work in Italy (since the beginning of this year), I know since I live here.
 

Play the Game

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Ehh i got a EU citizenship but i don't intend on using it. Anyone want it? :D
Went back to europe this summer and found everyone to be really fake, the food terrible, and lifestyle to be tiring. Girls were less dumb but that was the only positive point. Since my life no longer revolves around finding "the one" it was hardly an issue for me since i'm no longer a gentleman, but a full blown hustler.

I thought i was going to come back to this utopia that some of these people talked about. But no, i found girls maybe to be a bit nicer. But they were ugly in another way for me. They had this hot headed attitude that i really hate.

After that whole trip i can't tell you how glad i was to be back in the civilized world. Now i really do believe America is the greatest country in the world. And to all the america bashers... get the fvck out already! :)

I love this country, there might be a lot of stupid women who think that they're hot **** even though they're fat. That's not my problem, i don't care anymore. What i love about this country is the lifestyle. Anyone can buy a V8 sports car, anyone can get a huge mansion, even a nobody like Paris Hilton can be seen around the world. Only because she is an American.

It's funny how you guys want to get out of America so badly, everyone else wants to get in and get a chance at the opportunity it offers. If i'm reading you right, you hate money and the greed associated with it. But there's not too many places you can run away to due to globalization. Everyone is becoming a money hungry consumer even your soviet satellites states will slowly come to terms with prosperity. Its happening in parts of eastern europe already. Women there too will become shallow. You can't escape it. Money corrupts.
 
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