Becoming something you're not

[Fruitbat]

Much of DJ advice is connected to being the bad boy a hole women love.

This is surely true. Most women j date say that men who are a holes are attractive - arrogance, attitude, aggression etc. Even women I would have thought better of.

While I like women who are kind caring etc it seems that to get them hot, we must basically become all that's bad in the world. I literally hate these people. I've had to deal with them my whole life - wankers who make your life difficult. Men who victimise other men, men who deliberately hurt others. Men who lie, scheme and cheat the system. I despise these people. When I encounter men trying to play these games, esp in front of women I notice, my reaction is to beat the **** out of there caniving, stupid faces! I burn and seethe with resentment that all the qualities I despise in other men, are a source of sexual stimulation for women. Not only do these people fvck up the whole world with greed and negativity, but they are REWARDED by having lovely girls fvck them.

I don't have serious afc tendencies - I totally get that being needy, weak and feminine is rightfully unattractive - but I'm realising that you can eliminate negatives like this, to be truly DJ you must become an anti social utter bastard. This stuff has a huge effect on women.

The guy who talks to you like you're a fool.
The guy who deliberately lies and misrepresents you in work for advantage.
The guy who picks a fight with a little guy or a teenager
The guy who does shady deals and renegs on legal agreements
Generally guys who fvck with other guys and women for no good reason

I have to make a choice really. Do I go against my morals and better judgement and begin becoming something I'm not, a person I feel is a waste of human DNA or do I remain steadfast to my beliefs?

Evolutionary speaking, I don't get why women would chose to breed with these men - true leaders of men are not selfish, arrogant bastards. Men do not follow men they do not trust. The real leaders have grit and determination but do not abuse their lessers. They look out for them if anything. This is my observation - I am willing to hear a contradiction if you feel this isn't a corect premise.

I want tons of ass more than anything but I'm disgusted by the route map to this.

I meet arrogant sods at work all day and I see the effect this has - yet for me, I will always work covertly to sabotage these individuals. I would not contract or do business with them.

Have I got this wrong? Is the choice of being a good man or being a ******* with lots of pvssy the true choice or is there a subtlety I am missing?

 

[grayclif]

Well thought out post fruitbat. I think you are looking at an extreme end 9f the spectrum. The operative word in all this I think is gentleman. This person is both. He is considerate, understanding, caring and loyal (gentle) yet at the same time he is confident, charismatic, protective and ambitious (man).
All traits that rarely present themselves together in a total package until a man is in his 30's or 40's. A quality woman will recognize a man that posseses these qualities all day. Fine tune yourself. You'll see.

 

[Fruitbat]

I feel I have all of this in spades but I see lesser men, men driven by an all consuming ego, pride arrogance and dominance receiving more ass than me.

I can't make up my mind if it's just other qualities they hold - these men I know tend to me naturally better looking - it's a general characteristic of these men I find that they are better aesthetically than the better men I know.

I have some female friends who wax lyrical about how they hate the patriarchy, aggressive men and wish men could be less like this, but all their partners are exactly that. It feels like a cruel joke.

 

[Fruitbat]

An example - at a conference I was chatting to a very nice single woman. We were getting along fine. I was not kissing ass, just flirting in my usual manner. Colleague of mine (to be fair, he's a good looking bloke) who has an M3, does kickboxing - that type of guy, basically joins us and acts about as aloof an arrogant to the point I actually felt like - you're not usually like this, why have you suddenly turned in to a **** - and I said so out loud - why are you acting like a prick for so suddenly! But! I saw this woman's body language warm to this man. Even though I'd basically called him out on his game.

To me, he's the weak one who cannot be his authentic self! Yet this behaviour draws women, and even those who are consciously aware of it, seem to chose decent men in SPITE of these feelings!

I'm going to a party tonight and for one night, I am considering road testing being the most arrogant, obnoxious **** I can be...

 

[Tictac]

You do not need to be an arrogant prick. You do not need to try to be something you are not. You couldn't sustain that anyways. Neither can anyone else.

You simply need to stand up for yourself, tactfully speak your mind and take no sh*t for it. That qualifies those around you to be around you. It also polarizes people, especially women, so that you know which ones are worth your time. Be the guy you want to be and the rest takes care of itself. 'Calling people out' is a waste of your time.

You do that and you will be different from more than 90% of the people in your life. And no one will fail to notice.

 

[HoneyHitter]

I'm mean towards dishonorable men.
I'm a jerk to deceiving women.
I'm good to honorable men and women.

In presence of honorable men I will STILL be a jerk to a deceiving woman.

So what do you think I am?.

 

[FairShake]

Knowledge of self is important to being a "mature man."

When i was a boy I tried to be a bad ass street guy. But most of my tales of fights and crime were taller than I was. And people knew. I got the reputation as a liar and kind of a joke.

Oh, I got laid sometimes. Sometimes girls bought it or wanted to buy it for the night. But I didn't have lasting connections with girls and less with friends since the ones I chose weren't much like me at all.

Once I started being me and opening up myself a little bit I was able to build better connections with everyone. The kind of people I needed around me started coming around me. Honest people, good people.

 

[zekko]

While I like women who are kind caring etc it seems that to get them hot, we must basically become all that's bad in the world.

This is one of them most ridiculous, but also one of the most common, statements on this board that I have read. I have had women head over heels in love with me, and I promise you I have never tried to act like I am a bad person, or ever tried to do or be anything that was not congruent with the way that I actually feel, or with my convictions. In fact, I refuse to be anything other than myself. Let me clarify that doesn't mean I've never done anything wrong, but when I have it's been out of my own weakness, not because I was trying to act a certain way to get a chick.

I don't have serious afc tendencies - I totally get that being needy, weak and feminine is rightfully unattractive - but I'm realizing that you can eliminate negatives like this, to be truly DJ you must become an anti social utter bastard.

Here's your problem. You're right that you should not be needy, weak, or feminine. I don't know why any man would want to be those things. But you are completely wrong if you think you have to go to the extreme of becoming an anti-social bastard to eliminate those tendencies. Just don't be a big pvssy, is that really so hard?

 

[Fruitbat]

Well social experiment is over.

I road tested the ******* thing at a party and things didn't go well at all.

In fact, worse than usual. I lost out to "nice guys" and didn't pull a single bird.

The one unifying factor in all these interaction was:

I am the tubby one.

Seems that whether you're an ******* or a nice guy, it doesn't really matter. If you're lower bf and more handsome, it doesn't really matter.

Lesson learned. I am off the gym today:

The dudes I lost out to had ****ter jobs, worse clothes and I would say were lower in the social order than me.

 

[Fruitbat]

This is one of them most ridiculous, but also one of the most common, statements on this board that I have read. I have had women head over heels in love with me, and I promise you I have never tried to act like I am a bad person, or ever tried to do or be anything that was not congruent with the way that I actually feel, or with my convictions. In fact, I refuse to be anything other than myself. Let me clarify that doesn't mean I've never done anything wrong, but when I have it's been out of my own weakness, not because I was trying to act a certain way to get a chick.


Here's your problem. You're right that you should not be needy, weak, or feminine. I don't know why any man would want to be those things. But you are completely wrong if you think you have to go to the extreme of becoming an anti-social bastard to eliminate those tendencies. Just don't be a big pvssy, is that really so hard?

Zekko - spot on. I know first hand now.

I guess this is the same as c and f is for me, and "negs" or "kino"

C and f, negs and kino come completely nAturally to me - I am a bit of a joker and banter giver naturally and I understand that for those of us who are a little more introverted, it's a way of explaining this to those who do not posses that ability naturally.

my above posts clearly are me misunderstanding in the same way.

Only through your own experience do you learn. My friends have told me to not overdo being ****y.

So, I live and learn, lesson learned

 

[DragonBlood]

true leaders of men are not selfish, arrogant bastards. Men do not follow men they do not trust.

I meet arrogant sods at work all day and [...] I will always work covertly to sabotage these individuals. I would not contract or do business with them.

[...] is there a subtlety I am missing?

YES. There is a subtlety you are missing. The fact that you are judging and hating on other people, even sabotaging them in sneaky and small ways shows it is you who cannot be trusted and should be treated with disdain. Do you really go around thinking people are below you because they have different beliefs? You are being nice and following some kind of code in the hopes of a reward... and feel disgruntled when that reward never comes. A woman could never live up to that code. Its too much pressure and quite frankly, not alot of fun. Which is what women value.

I want tons of ass more than anything

This line is great because you actually answer your own question. We all want tons of ass.

The reason the girls like the bad boys is because they are bluntly honest about their desires. They dont pretend to be better than others and come across as pretty relateable flawed individuals, as the woman also has flaws. Im sure you feel more at ease around your arrogant coworkers than the "nice" ones as at least you know what you are getting is the real thing. That this person is being congruent to their true self.

I should also add as an aside, all that arrogance and bravado definitely translates into better sex in the bedroom.

 

[Fruitbat]

YES. There is a subtlety you are missing. The fact that you are judging and hating on other people, even sabotaging them in sneaky and small ways shows it is you who cannot be trusted and should be treated with disdain. Do you really go around thinking people are below you because they have different beliefs? You are being nice and following some kind of code in the hopes of a reward... and feel disgruntled when that reward never comes. A woman could never live up to that code. Its too much pressure and quite frankly, not alot of fun. Which is what women value.



This line is great because you actually answer your own question. We all want tons of ass.

The reason the girls like the bad boys is because they are bluntly honest about their desires. They dont pretend to be better than others and come across as pretty relateable flawed individuals, as the woman also has flaws. Im sure you feel more at ease around your arrogant coworkers than the "nice" ones as at least you know what you are getting is the real thing. That this person is being congruent to their true self.

I should also add as an aside, all that arrogance and bravado definitely translates into better sex in the bedroom.

Last point, of course, even the most meekly mannered loser understands the impact of a little bravado.

I think you have misunderstood the point. I have no issue stating my own desires, and actually it's not uncommon for someone to do so. Again, this seems like ascribing false qualities to people. For example, the man who has a gf who is attractive but it's her "infectious personality" of course. The woman with the 6 pack endowed boyfriend who "knows what he wants". I've seen it over and over.

Being "bluntly honest" in ones desires is not what this is about - the individuals I am talking about are NOT bluntly honest, in an open forum. The type of individual I am talking about would have one version of events while ass was present, another when the boss is present, another when around the lads etc.

If defining bad boy is about being honest about ones desires, then what an open and large community that would be.

I think if you are defining "true self" as the realistic nature of everyone that is repressed by "nice guys" then this is, IMO the last line of defence of the anti social person - "im just getting what I want and you don't have the balls to". I think some people are just basically selfish, abrasive people who weren't raised correctly. "I did it to you before you could do it to me"

Wherever the love in for lowlife scum began, all the hogwash above is just a mere cover for lowlifery.

...and yes, I do strongly "go around" thinking others are below me for holding different beliefs. If I detect an ounce of "me first", "look out for #1" attitude in others, it tells me directly that this is not an individual with which one can make lasting social or business partnerships with - this is a bad egg, and should be marginalised or at least not contracted with. I think that's a better frame of reference on decision making on the character of others than making excuses for self interested scrotes.

I am far more of the opinion that the b boy thing is less to do with the supposed virtues of a b boy - there are few. It appears more of the elixir of forbidden fruit, and the reinforcing behaviour of extremely high value males who have been corrupted by their own good fortune and have never had to work on social skills or working as a team.

It's also the apex of sex roles differences - males have had to do the nasty work of killing animals and rivals and women child rearing - traits of aggression and victimisation are strong traits when you need a meal.

Thank you for helping me get to this point, but the cover story above is EXACTLY the same cover story given by the woman who returns to her convict husband for the 4th time and is nothing more than that. Objectively, there are no positive traits to this personality from a societal point of view, they are a pollock on the anus of humanity but, in the same way dumb broads serve a sexual purpose to us, they serve a purpose to females.

 

[Fruitbat]

The unvarnished reality is, mother nature did not include "honor" or a value system when she built our DNA structures.

You are having a moral crisis because what you want to achieve is in conflict with your moral values. This is similar to what is happening in the Christian world for the religions men who cannot or do not learn game.

Ultimately, you have to recognize what gets results and balance that with who you want to be. There is sure to be a happy medium where you can attract women, and fvk up the douchebags while still not being a total @ss to the entire world.

Good post fruitbat.

Thank you danger.

To move this on a stage further, Mother Nature could be argued to have given us a value or honour system, by virtue of the fact if I am sat here discussing this with you! Our dna is the reason we are here, and if morals and ethics exist in the abstract, as does religion, then it's as part and parcel of our route to survival as teeth, hair and a smaller jaw capable of speech.

Indeed, we crawled away from our evolutionary subordinates by working together, developing language and existing as a social species.

Personally, I think much of this is a nature of life's constant evolution and flux and generational reactions.

I would wager a woman from 1930 would not place the esteem she does today on pond life. The world was a real place then, and it's the REMOVAL of survival essentials through the state sponsorship of illiegitmate children which have rapidly changed their behaviour. Much like a roller coaster is fun despite mimicking dangerous situations, so can be relationships and partnering.

Don't get this post wrong. There is merit in success, there is merit in winning. There is merit in out shining ones peers.

However, the more I learn of the specifics of game, the more I am dumbstruck by the reality.

I began thinking "I've been conditioned in to being a nice pvssy - I need to swindle and gouge my rivals"

This is true - the truly devious and nastiest specimens I have encountered have more success with ass. Not good quality ass for the long term, but a flavour of dark triad seems to be directly responsible for female interests.

I've recently come full circle in questioning if it is a price worth paying.

Deep down, I know it's not me. I'm too reasonable, fair minded and intelligent to truly submit to becoming a narcicistic ass and I hope that there are some women (clearly they exist, all my exes I suppose) that don't and i would rather date in this pool than the pond of feted scum the others are in.

...and whilst talking of game, perhaps this is the pinnacle. I've spent many hours, weeks and months wondering how I modify to attract women a or woman b. The true position of power is knowing who to reject and perhaps that selective attitude will enhance my game by the back door.

 

[Reykhel]

An example - at a conference I was chatting to a very nice single woman. We were getting along fine. I was not kissing ass, just flirting in my usual manner. Colleague of mine (to be fair, he's a good looking bloke) who has an M3, does kickboxing - that type of guy, basically joins us and acts about as aloof an arrogant to the point I actually felt like - you're not usually like this, why have you suddenly turned in to a **** - and I said so out loud - why are you acting like a prick for so suddenly! But! I saw this woman's body language warm to this man. Even though I'd basically called him out on his game.

To me, he's the weak one who cannot be his authentic self! Yet this behaviour draws women, and even those who are consciously aware of it, seem to chose decent men in SPITE of these feelings!

I'm going to a party tonight and for one night, I am considering road testing being the most arrogant, obnoxious **** I can be...

Wow seems so unfair doesn't it? you called him out on his behaviour!! killing the sexual competition eh? how do you think you came across? like a butt hurt beta? a passive aggressive nice guy?

your post is very angry and bitter but at least you acknowledge that....

Rollo kind of touched on this topic in the rational male. about when you start developing your personality, when you start learning game, when you start changing.....there's always going to be people who try to pull you back down and tell you to "be yourself"

but what is "be yourself"? personality is maleable. The sign of life is growth. If in one years time you can look back and barely recognise your old self you are truly growing.....is that no longer being yourself?

If you were to read 10 pages of a positive book every day.....if you applied that knowledge to your life...then read another Ten pages with your mind that has learned from previous learning and reading.....and you repeat this pattern......learned knowledge, applied knowledge, learned knowledg, applied knowledge....until you have master.........you will have developed and changed your personality.....are you no longer being authentic?

you remind me of the introduction to the 48 laws of power.....honesty is a blunt knife that bloodies more than it cuts....or something like that...

beware of those who claim to be not playing the game. their honesty is often just dust being thrown in your eyes.....

 

[glass half full]

This is a great topic Fruitbat. Good answers too. All I can add is that some folks are just that way, and the best thing for our soul's sake is to stay away from them. Christ says to pray for them, I've found this tough to do, but I've learned it's best. By nature I'm a warrior, I used to call people like this out for an argument or fight in front of their followers. They usually fold.

From watching good DJ's I know, the best attitude is a passive one. Best way I can describe it is to acknoledge their silliness (nicely) to the woman, then be polite but masculine to her. Like it doesn't really matter.Charisma? Keeping your frame? I think this is what I'm referring to.

 

[Fruitbat]

Wow seems so unfair doesn't it? you called him out on his behaviour!! killing the sexual competition eh? how do you think you came across? like a butt hurt beta? a passive aggressive nice guy?

your post is very angry and bitter but at least you acknowledge that....

Rollo kind of touched on this topic in the rational male. about when you start developing your personality, when you start learning game, when you start changing.....there's always going to be people who try to pull you back down and tell you to "be yourself"

but what is "be yourself"? personality is maleable. The sign of life is growth. If in one years time you can look back and barely recognise your old self you are truly growing.....is that no longer being yourself?

If you were to read 10 pages of a positive book every day.....if you applied that knowledge to your life...then read another Ten pages with your mind that has learned from previous learning and reading.....and you repeat this pattern......learned knowledge, applied knowledge, learned knowledg, applied knowledge....until you have master.........you will have developed and changed your personality.....are you no longer being authentic?

you remind me of the introduction to the 48 laws of power.....honesty is a blunt knife that bloodies more than it cuts....or something like that...

beware of those who claim to be not playing the game. their honesty is often just dust being thrown in your eyes.....

Very interesting post but calling someone out on their behaviour is not merely motivated by killing the sexual competition. His behaviour changed to make an impact. You can stand there and try to pretend it isn't happening, or do what you would do in ALL circumstances. If one of your colleagues became a random douche in a 1 on 1 conversation, you'd be damn sure to raise it, hence my immediate reaction is to call out the ridiculous behaviour that some men start displaying on auto pilot when a female enters the room.

 

[Solomon]

YES. There is a subtlety you are missing. The fact that you are judging and hating on other people, even sabotaging them in sneaky and small ways shows it is you who cannot be trusted and should be treated with disdain. Do you really go around thinking people are below you because they have different beliefs? You are being nice and following some kind of code in the hopes of a reward... and feel disgruntled when that reward never comes. A woman could never live up to that code. Its too much pressure and quite frankly, not alot of fun. Which is what women value.



This line is great because you actually answer your own question. We all want tons of ass.

The reason the girls like the bad boys is because they are bluntly honest about their desires. They dont pretend to be better than others and come across as pretty relateable flawed individuals, as the woman also has flaws. Im sure you feel more at ease around your arrogant coworkers than the "nice" ones as at least you know what you are getting is the real thing. That this person is being congruent to their true self.

I should also add as an aside, all that arrogance and bravado definitely translates into better sex in the bedroom.

OP needs to internalise this....advice is spot on

 

[Reykhel]

Very interesting post but calling someone out on their behaviour is not merely motivated by killing the sexual competition. His behaviour changed to make an impact. You can stand there and try to pretend it isn't happening, or do what you would do in ALL circumstances. If one of your colleagues became a random douche in a 1 on 1 conversation, you'd be damn sure to raise it, hence my immediate reaction is to call out the ridiculous behaviour that some men start displaying on auto pilot when a female enters the room.

Ok.....why do you feel the need to call out people's behaviour? what is your true motivation? If you can find your true motivation behind this need, you'll probably find a couple of dragons gaurding some inherent fear. Get passed those dragons and confront those fears Xavier and your path to personal growth and riches lies just beyond.

Who defines what a douche is? you? so when people are not living up to your expectations about how you think they should behave....you feel the need to correct their behaviour. No wonder your post is full of resentment (your word) and I imagine you're quite frustrated. And probably not a lot of fun to be around.

Ask 10 people to define what it means "to be rude" and I'll bet you'll not get the same definition. For some people it's difficult to put into words? France and the French have a reputation for being "rude" but it's total ignorance of their culture. Usually when an american visits France and they ask for directions....in English....and without using the proper forms of address....maybe the French person doesn't fully understand English....maybe they are surprised with the informality of the American addressing them as buddy (when all their life they've been raised to address strangers with the formal version of "you" and "mister/madame". Often both will leave the conversation with a feeling of frustration and a feeling of "what a rude person!" who's right? neither it's subjective......when there's a disparity between expected behaviour and received behaviour......in that gap a perceived rudeness is felt.....

would you rather be right or happy?

for me your jumping into other people's frames....and losing your own