Bad Financial Advice

Juggerr

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I lurk.
I like to lurk.
I know I'm going to get my ass flamed to hell...

However, I see many people that have begun to espouse the Rich Dad etc. books. For those of you who have never had the oppurtunity to read these books, I warn you to take the advice with a grain of salt if you actually do read it.

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

The aforementioned link is something that I think every reader of Kiyosaki's financial 'advice' should read.

What I'd like to point out about the Kiyosaki novels is...
Rich Dad, Poor Dad contains much wrong advice, much bad advice, some dangerous advice, and virtually no good advice.

If you're interested in real estate read here:
http://www.johntreed.com/basics.html

Being proactive in your education is a good thing. Learn about what you jump into instead of going with both eyes closed, clutching some worthless book and expect to make it big.
 
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Francisco d'Anconia

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Without reading Mr. Reed's diatribe can you answer the following:

1. Has he actually tried Mr. Kiyosaki's suggestions?
2. Have you tried any of his suggestions?
3. If either of you have tried them, what exactly did not work? Also, was the advice taken with the guidance of people that are well trained in those areas as he suggests?

Yeah, you may get flamed but not by everyone. However, your advice will be taken with a grain of salt with substantiation of only regurgitated verbiage of some third party instead of first hand experience.
 

Engetsu

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Good stuff. I've seen Kiyosaki's infomercials on T.V. and they seem pretty sketchy... The way he talks is vague and there's this mysterious aura around him... He may be a fraud and a bad advisor, but there's some DJ in that guy.
 

Juggerr

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If I may quote from the great Pook
"Foresight teaches gently; error teaches brutally"

In response to Francisco
Without reading Mr. Reed's diatribe can you answer the following:

1. Has he actually tried Mr. Kiyosaki's suggestions?
2. Have you tried any of his suggestions?
3. If either of you have tried them, what exactly did not work? Also, was the advice taken with the guidance of people that are well trained in those areas as he suggests?

1. John is yet another real estate 'guru'. Yes, if you read his analysis, he is bitter in some of his criticism. However, good information should never be spurned.

2. Have I tried any of his suggestions?
I am a bit conservative for the following reasons:
I come from old money.
I don't want to recklessly give my money to any smooth talker.
I have good advisors already.

3. If either of you have tried them, what exactly did not work?
The main gripe that I have about Kiyosaki is his way of making every thing overly simplified. Making money is not as easy as he likes to make it or else there would be millionares everywhere.

Also, if you read Reed's analysis, there is much good evidence that Kiyosaki was never as successful as everyone claims. That is until his book sales shot up...

Therefore, I want to give warning to people who purchase this book to read it Critically . Yes, Kiyosaki can be inspiring. Yet, it smatters of the boasting of one who is actually impersonating wealth.
 

Omega

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The point I got out of the book was:

Assets > Liabilities

That website was ownage though.
 

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diplomatic_lie

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This is beyond stupid. So because Kiyosaki used fiction in his books, this means they are worthless?

By this judgement the title "Don Juan" should make this site irrevelant, as there is no scientific proof a Don Juan ever existed, or was popular with women.

I don't like Kiyosaki's books much, mainly because I'm more interested in something with more advanced techniques, but for many people who're new to the whole investing/business concept, they are absolutely invaluable.

And if Kiyosaki doesn't even exist - if his real name is Bob Brown - I wouldn't give a rats ass.

Stop wasting your time analysing people, and start learning something.
 

m4a1

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Read this

A REPLY FROM ROBERT KIYOSAKI

SUB: JOHN T. REED'S COMMENTS ABOUT RICH DAD POOR DAD

I normally do not reply to comments about me or my books and products. But many friends called me with concern about John T. Reed's comments on his personal web site, so I decided to glance over his in depth report on my book.

First of all, I support our right to the freedom of speech. When I read comments on my company's bulletin board, I weigh both compliments and criticisms equally and welcome both. I make no comments simply because both compliments and criticism are important and I do not want to encourage or discourage either. I reply to John T. Reed's report simply because it is much more than a criticism. I find it more of an angry attack and I wonder why. I wonder why someone so smart and so rich would spend so much time writing a lengthy heated report on my simple little book.

So rather than say nothing I thought it best to offer you my view on his report and let you come to your own conclusions.

The following are my points to you, not him, on some of the points he raised:

1. First of all, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is a very simple book. It was not meant to be a textbook for the Harvard Business School.

2. Second of all, RDPD was meant to take a very complex subject and make it simple. It seems he took what was simple and made it complex.

3. "Rich Dad Poor Dad" is a true story of a man who did not graduate from high school, yet ultimately became one of the richest men in Hawaii.

4. As my rich dad said, "In school, your measure of success is your report card. In the real world, your report card is your financial statement." My rich dad did not have a good report card but he had a good financial statement.

5. "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is a story of a simple man teaching two 9 year old boys his 6 basic lessons about money. As I said earlier, this book was not meant for students of the Harvard Business School. If "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" raised the hair on John T. Reed's back, my next book, "Rich Dad's Guide to Investing", which is now due out on May 1, 2000, will cause him to write an even longer report. I can't wait to read his next document.

6. And finally, his accusations about my college education are worthy of comment. I considered going to the school he went to, which was West Point. It is the federal military academy that trains officers for the U.S. Army. I did not apply for a congressional appointment to his school, although it is a fine school. I chose my school, the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, New York for two reasons. And they are:
I wanted to learn about international trade. Kings Point trains officers to sail ships such as tankers, cargo ships, and passenger liners to carry on commerce throughout the world. At Kings Point I studied subjects I love such as Naval Architecture, International Trade, Sailing, Navigation, Admiralty Law, International Law, Business Law, as well as the regular hard sciences. I also spent a year abroad, sailing on passenger ships like the Love Boat and sailing to places such as Hong Kong, Thailand, Alaska, and Tahiti. I was being paid to go to school while I sailed the world. It was a great way to get a college education.

Kings Pointers were at that time, some of the highest paid graduates in the world. In 1964, when I had to choose between Kings Point and West Point, a West Point graduate was making about $200 a month. A Kings Point graduate was starting out at over $2,000 a month and higher. So although Kings Point is not as prestigious a school as West Point, a 1000% ROI difference per month for the same 4 year education seemed like a smart financial decision to me.
The reason King Pointers were paid more upon graduation than West Pointers was because Kings Pointers graduated as civilians and West Pointers graduated as military officers. Kings Pointers were paid by private shipping companies while West Pointers were paid by the federal government. That is why, when I graduated and went to work for Standard Oil of California, my pay was $42,000 a year, in 1969. West Pointers were making a little less than $5,000 a year. My classmates who sailed civilian cargo ships in Vietnam were paid double combat pay, although, they were not in much danger, which meant that many were paid $80,000 to $120,000 a year upon graduation. Not too bad for a 22 year old kid in 1969.

Although I was draft exempt and did not have to go to Vietnam because I was a Merchant Marine Officer, I chose to resign from my high paying job and join the U.S. Marine Corps. I went to flight school and then on to fight in Vietnam. Both of my dads thought it was the duty of a young man to defend his country in time of war and that is what I did in 1969. So I only had that high paying job for only a short period of time.

And that is my reply to John T. Reed's report. It is written to you, not to him. I suspect he would only get angrier if I tried to reason with him.

I replied because what he said seemed much more than a criticism of my Book, it seemed like a personal attack. He has some valid points and I am sure he is a very smart man.

In fact, he acknowledges that the Thunderbird School of International Management of Arizona is one of the top schools in international business. Should we tell him that Thunderbird uses "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" as part of its curriculum in its entrepreneur program, and that I have been invited to speak to its students on several occasions? Please refer to the testimonial from Thunderbird on our website.

Yet, my book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" while technically accurate, was not meant to be a technical book. It is a simple book about an often complicated and technical subject. "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" was written primarily to offer hope to people who wanted to find their own path to financial freedom rather than to be a slave to money all their lives.

It was written to let people know that regardless if you did well in school or not, regardless if you had a high paying job or not, that each and everyone of us has the ability to reach the land of financial freedom if we have the proper financial education.

As a final note, there is a new book out that I highly recommend, written by Thomas J. Stanley the author of "The Millionaire Next Door". In his new book, "The Millionaire Mind", Stanley surveyed over a thousand millionaires and found that most were B and C students and had an average SAT score of 1190. In fact, most of the millionaires would not have qualified for admission to most of the top academic institutions. Quoting from the book, "I find no correlation between SAT scores, grade-point averages and economic achievement. None." says Stanley.

And I say, "Keep learning, keep an open mind, and thank you for taking an interest in your own financial education."
 

Spike_the_Dragon

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I liked the book. It was simple, direct and loaded with good information. Really, the mindset he describes for getting rich isn't all that different from the DJ mindset.

I'm using the advice and it is starting to pay off... don't knock it.:cool:
 

A-Unit

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Re:

While I appreciate what you're saying, a major point is missed...

Kiyosaki IS NOT a HOW TO GURU, he is a WHY WHAT GURU. He gives you the big picture, the motivation, the concepts, hence his game. He doesn't purport SPECIFIC strategies, as he advocates finding your own route to wealth and financial freedom. This should be enlightening for people, as they can achieve the "types" of income and structures he speaks about.

I've seen T. Reed's site, and I've met people who are die hard supporters of either speaker, so be it. That does not invalidate his message, and it should not deter any person from seeking their happiness in life achievable through financial independence and knowledge.

Please tell me.

What harm has Kiyosaki done that you have not done, dear poster?

Stating he's bogus on serves to deter people from motivating themselves to better circumstances, it is does not offer them an ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION to what he espouses. Unless one say...

"Well, RK had it wrong, here's what and why you should do this, and what and why he was wrong," what motivating factor is there for anyone to believe otherwise? Sell your point.

I've read RK. and from the get go knew he wasn't a HOW TO guy, but he certainly gives you a better way to think about finances. He shows you the guys who have done it before and tells you to go get mentors who know how to do it. By not believing you've killed the creative process before it's begun.

Personally, I went out and recruited a R/E mentor and a business mentor, so to speak as if it doesn't work is horse manure. Moreover, go buy what he suggests.

It isn't like doing nothing helps improve your situation.

And if you're concerned about the $, then borrow the books, go the library, or surf his site until you're content with the information.

If you search around the self-improvement, self-help, or financial industries, you'll find a plethora of advice that contradicts one another. It's how people "hook" you in and sell their view point. This is why reading multiple sources and forming YOUR OWN opinion is the most valid route to pure, unadulterated wisdom.

Try also:
Richest Man in Babylon
Missed Fortune
Any books by Buffet or Benjamin Graham
Any books by Peter Lynch
Any books by Dr Van Tharp
The Wealthy Pauper by Fabman Marciano
Any books by or about Jesse Livermore
And so forth...




A-Unit
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Originally posted by m4a1
Read this

A REPLY FROM ROBERT KIYOSAKI

SUB: JOHN T. REED'S COMMENTS ABOUT RICH DAD POOR DAD

I normally do not reply to comments about me or my books and products. But many friends called me with concern about John T. Reed's comments on his personal web site, so I decided to glance over his in depth report on my book.

First of all, I support our right to the freedom of speech. When I read comments on my company's bulletin board, I weigh both compliments and criticisms equally and welcome both. I make no comments simply because both compliments and criticism are important and I do not want to encourage or discourage either. I reply to John T. Reed's report simply because it is much more than a criticism. I find it more of an angry attack and I wonder why. I wonder why someone so smart and so rich would spend so much time writing a lengthy heated report on my simple little book....
M4, thanks for posting this. It does hit upon several questions about Mr. Reed that I was going to ask myself. Also, Robert's explanation on the purpose of the RDPD books was exactly what I was going to post.

I don't understand why people take the time to snipe at one another because of different ways to gain success, h3ll it happens in this forum every day. Instead of questioning and providing information and explanations, people quickly denounce what they don't understand. I say that they don't understand it only because many do not state specific reasons for not believing in the process, they seem to be reacting on only personal emotions (much like a woman :p).

Personally, I've read either four or five of the RDPD books. They did teach me a few things but even more so they prompted me to explore and research his ideas even further. What I discovered through talking with several people who have actually achieved the success he expounds, is that much of his ideas are sound but only at a high level. Much due diligence is needed to actually make it work.

So now, two years later, I can see that the seeds that I have planted are beginning to bear fruit. Am I following all of his advice? No, not more than 50% of it but I'm not interested in all of his methods. Not that I don't believe that they will work, I'm just not interested.

I've said this is other threads on this site and I'm restating it here; definitely question the suggestions you read to get a better understanding. Try them out and comment reasonably on your experience. Too often people have personal beliefs that are tainted from previous negative experiences and so they denounce a method without being receptive to the possibility of understanding it from another perspective.

Being that closed to ideas is a tell tale sign of an AFC. He keeps doing the same things over and over even though they he's not being successful. He doesn't take the time to try alternative methods and just denounces the method because it's easier to put something down than to get up off of their @ss and make a change or do something different.

The soap box if free if anyone else wants to retort.
 

Juggerr

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I posted this as a warning to not take everything literally. Some people have read RDPD as inspiration. Fine. Thats great, now go and find something that is substantial so you CAN learn how to make money.

Learn from the greats. Be proactive.

Now, Francisco.
I dislike Kiyosaki because I am still not convinced that he was successful UNTIL he started selling books on BEING successful. Reed's explanation of reasons why you should be wary of people like Kiyosaki is well founded.

As for being close minded?
I have had great exposure to successful people.

John Arrilaga. He went into real estate without a huge bankroll. However, he was successful because he had vision and determination. He is a much better example than Kiyosaki's fictional Rich Dad. Oh btw Arrilaga is a Billionaire and is a good family friend.

Yet another successful person is Don Valentine. This man also had vision. He has great timing. He is THE GREAT Venture Capitalist of our times. My family has put money into his funds of Sequoia for the last 4 rounds. We've got first round shares in that little known company called Google. Oh yeah, Don Valentine is also a billionaire and his advising has kept my family rich.

As for me being unsuccessful? Doing things that don't work?
I don't understand how from the investing that my family has done within the last 15 years is not working. I mean we've only had a 20 to 1 return...

So as to your assertion that I keep closing my eyes and saying lalala, is patently untrue. I just question the mentality of burning bridges and not going to college that so many adherents of Kiyosaki seem to espouse. Also, the number of people who keep hawking this book to me is increasing. In fact, I've gotten offerred this book more often than Dianetics!(Church of Scientology)

I have had many exposures to failures. In my famly alone, three stand prominently out as object lessons.

Grandfather 1:
Was stupid. married gold digger. Did not have a good pre-nup. Practically led family into ruins. Almost squandered 3 generations of wealth.

Uncle 2:
Favored son of Grandfather 1, also inherited poor business sense because of his recklessness in business. He never did enough due diligence and was repeatedly swept by smooth talkers. He is also the one that has kept offerring RDPD to me. Its annoying since he is the biggest loser the family has known.

Uncle 3:
Son of grandfather 1 from another wife. Husbanded his money carefully. However, has never done anything except for putting his money into bank. Rather boring, never made money work for him. Now Uncle 3 is not really a 'failure'. Its just that he's boring. His actions speak for themselves.

The only reason why I have posted this is because I have friends who now scorn the tried and true route. I fully believe it is because of their reading of RDPD. I am frustrated that they are going to potentially throw away a perfectly fine life for a life FULL of uncertainty. There is ABSOLUTELY no guarantee that if you take the path less traveled by that you will be successful. Yeah sure, some do, but there are so many failures that one should exercise the ugly grey thing in your head.

The path of success that has worked for my family?
(Dad's generation and mine)

Using one's brain.

Taking advantage of oppurtunity. (nothing wrong with tried and true route of college. Networking is imporant)

Being wary(not closed minded) of the suave smooth talking operator. He is often the one that will lead to misfortune. normally.
 

m4a1

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I agree that Robert Kiyosaki got a lot richer after he sold those books and his CASH FLOW products, but that's obvious, he's talking about money to make more money, but why should he lose credibility because of that??? If it's that easy, let me see any of you write a so-called BS book and make millions out of it.
Any best-seller book is written by someone who is in it for the money and the fame. RDPD is the book that changed my life completely, it was the first step to actually being 'financially conscience', then I decided to follow-up on many cash-related books, most cash-related books go into complete details that confuse the novice reader, honestly now, I don't care much if 'rich dad' really exists or if the story is totally fiction, it doesn't matter.
 

Juggerr

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So you used it as inspiration. As I said thats great.

You've obviously got your head screwed on right. It just disgusts me that people would buy books on success from someone who was not successful...

If it is acknowledged that his books are fiction then why are they still in the non-fiction area? Seriously... people should be getting the facts presented to them in a straightforward and not in an obfuscated fashion.

IT DOES matter whether Rich Dad exists or not because I believe that if one thing is tainted, then you should be wary about the rest and his examples are infantile at best.

Anyhow, its not the person that takes RDPD as inspiration that I'm worried about.
 

diplomatic_lie

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I love the fact that this John Reed fella hawks his own "real estate guru" books and products on his site. Reminds me of sleazy salesmen using contraversial issues to sell their own products.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Sounds like someone is taking things personally. I was speaking in generalities however I seem to have stuck a cord... If you feel you are successful great, kudos to you. Do I care how you became successful be it via old money or however you deem success, not really. At least I care as little as I do as about how RK became successful.

RK is selling information. People have benefited from that information so what's the problem? It's the knowledge learned from that information that dictates a person's success, isn't it?

It's interesting the amount of self proclaimed 'super heroes' that are in the states nowadays. They go out of their way to protect everyone from the evils of the world, as if people will cease to exist because they were not capable of taking information and judging for themselves whether it's viable for their own needs.

Luckily, there are those who do analyze all of the information that they come across and determine it's usefulness to them.
 

Chilli_pimp

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i've skimmed thru this thread, and those who disagree obivously never took the time to read or understand the content... the book basically broadens your reality of possibilities rather than keep the mindset of "i gotta look for employment to survive" ...

theres no point arguing w/ you slaves to employment.. keep doing what your doing... we still need employees...
as for the people who understand the philosophies, i'll meet you at the top
 
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