Attraction

[drZaius09]

I come to this board every day to find the same topics on the same subjects, and everyone runs circles around themselves and makes zero progress. Even amongst the more mature 25-and-over crowd, the fundamental rules of attraction are still not completely understood. I am going to break it down for all of you in a plain, easy-to-follow language:

Attraction is an entity. It either exists or does not exist from the moment you meet a person. Attraction cannot be created through the clever manipulation of DJ 'tricks & tips.' If attraction is not present at the very first encounter, it almost never will be. If attraction IS present, it can be nourished and sustained, or it can be beaten to death with AFC mistakes. Once attraction is dead, it can almost never be revived.

I am hoping the simple and concise paragraph above can put an end to the constant gluttony of posts I keep seeing on here. The ones that read "Why won't she return my calls?" or "How should I respond to this email where I get clearly rejected?" This is like asking what play to run when you're down by 6 touchdowns with 10 seconds left in the fourth quarter. It doesn't matter because the game is over! Now is the time to make your adjustments and move on to next week's gameplan. But unlike football, your season is not going to end. There will always be another chance to make the playoffs right around the corner.

 

[SAYNO]

Loved it!

Hey, man that was a great post.

Personally, I don't see how anyone else can find any fault with it.

Good work!




Sayno'

 

[thesynergist]

Great post! Very Pragmatic. However...

I disagree with one point. I think that although sometimes either instant attraction or instant disgust occur, often a womans perception of a man the second you meet is one of nonchalant neutrality. Unless you hit one of the rare instances of instant disgust, effectively presenting yourself and interacting with her can build attraction from neutrality. There's not a doubt in my mind this is the case.

I do agree with your point on loss of attraction though. Once it either occurs or is generated through physical and mental interaction then dissappears there's almost no way to rekindle it. You're dead on about this part of your post being a concise, ultimate answer for all the bewildered "why did she whatever" posts. Once it dies or you somehow kill it it's pointless to try to get it back, or even think about why. It's so simple, so obvious...Who cares why!! Who cares what she's doing now that she doesn't want to have monkey sex with you every week!!
It took me way too long to realize that, but it's true. The only reasonable thing to do is move forward.

 

[Ricky]

Well the thing is, people get back with their exes all the time

People also have a horrible reaction a person the first time and then end up dating.

Attraction is important but who really knows.

For instance, say an ugly guy meets a beautiful girl for the first time. Of course she won't be attracted to him, but he will be attracted to her.

After time they get to know each other. She finds that she actually is attracted to alot of things about him and they date and get married.

It can happen. Just ask Billy Joel and Christy Brinkley.

 

[Ricky]

Guys I appreciate the intention behind this post as well.

The thing is we need to ask ourselves, does this belief serve me in the way i want it to.

If yes, keep the belief, in no don't.

 

[drZaius09]

I didn't mean to give the impression that attraction is born the very *second* you first say 'hello' to somebody. Obviously the first encounter should give each person involved a chance to digest what the other is all about. Of course, the very instant a woman lays eyes on you, she's already made 90% of her decision, whether you guys like it or not, or whether you choose to believe it or not.

I think the real point I'm trying to make here is that if attraction isn't there, nothing you can do will change that. Attraction will NEVER magically appear after a romantic evening under a starry sky. Attraction will NEVER magically appear after employing the latest killer DJ maneuver written about on these boards.

 

[Eddy]

I totally agree with Dr. Zaius. Lots of experience has shown me this. I'm a pretty good-looking guy. I used to practice all of the techniques until I got really good at them. Don Juan, DYD, NLP, you name it, I tried them all. I became almost as good as most naturals. I later learned all the techniques are mainly a crutch. Without her being attracted to you, NOTHING starts.

But, in spite of being good at techniques, I would still get rejected. I went out with a friend of mine one night. He was really into a hot girl who hung out at a particular bar. He thought I should go after her, because he didn't think he was good-looking enough. I went and talked to her, and sure enough found out that she was more interested in him. Later she told him that even though I was really handsome and had a great personality, I didn't make her go "WOW!" , the way that he did.

There's no accounting for taste. What one person finds attractive, another will not. Women are much more unusual in the varations of what they find attractive in guys. I had one ex who predictibly drooled over Pitt, Cruise, and Clooney. I had another ex who thought those guys were "alright", but she thought Matt Damon and Kevin Spacey were the hottest guys on the planet. You never know whether you have the look and style a girl will be into, until you meet her and give her a chance.

Though, women are more attracted by a guy's personality, don't fool yourself into believing that physical attraction isn't as important to women. But, on the good side, everyone else might think you're ugly and she might think you make Brad Pitt look like a dog.

 

[MrLuvr]

This is similar to something that David Deangelo says in his Double you Dating seminars.

Basically, his premise is that "Attraction is not a choice."

So, if a woman is not attracted to you, there is nothing you can do to change her mind. No amount of flowers or wooing or dinner dates will change her attraction level. Now, from experience we know that is not strictly true. Sometimes, women do get swayed after a prolonged period of pursuit. But, then the question becomes, is it worth it? Yes, you can eventually get her, but after paying a heavy price in your time, finances and mental energy. So, for all practical purposes, his initial premise that attraction is not a choice is somewhat valid.

Now, this premise that attraction is not a choice can also work in your favour. Because the converse of it is that, once a woman is attracted to you, there is nothing anyone can say or do to change her mind. It is beyond her control. And that is where this whole idea becomes very powerful and one that men can exploit.

 

[stevera004]

Originally posted by Ricky

After time they get to know each other. She finds that she actually is attracted to a lot of things about him and they date and get married.

It can happen. Just ask Billy Joel and Christy Brinkley.

You're feeding into the chump view of relationships. Somehow, that a guy a chick isn't turned on by will be able to build that attraction. Well, it just doesn't happen. Even if you 'build' the attraction, you will have to work like a ba$tard your whole life to maintain it. Just not worth it.

And your Billy Joel example is shyte. Bill Joel is an ugly puss, but he's Billy freakin' Joel, and has line ups of chicks that want him. Why? Status of course. And that attracts women, he does not need to work hard to build it.

 

[Ricky]

Guys, let's put this in a frame that helps everyone.

Say I'm a woman and I want a guy that looks like Brad Pitt. If no Brad Pitt wannabees try to pick me up, I have to move down the list to other guys.

Attraction can be increased by flirting, ****y and funny and all of these things.

Yeah being a girls type helps things. My recent ex, the one I still love told me the first night "You are so my type". I guess I fit her normal type which was great. We still broke up due to distance, but it is nice to have a girl that's hot for you.

This month I'm set a goal to meet 100 new women. They all are different in terms of their reaction. Some girls are very open to being met and some aren't. I think it is the time that you catch them at. If they are in between relationships and looking for a rebound guy, any guy may do. If they are looking for a certain type of guy they may be picky. They do have an advantage over us. Many of them simply don't have the sex drive we do. So they can wait.

I banged a girl last year that was very hot. She said it had been a year since she had sex. There were other issues at hand that were responsible for that that I won't go into.

Just go out to meet girls, get detached from the outcome. Use a few techniques, but do realize that you are the one that has a choice in this as well.

And attraction is weird. I met a girl from online that is attractive, but I felt no attraction with her the more I talked with her. That can happen too. Personality counts for both sexes.

 

[drZaius09]

Originally posted by Ricky
Guys, let's put this in a frame that helps everyone.

I already did that before you polluted this thread with your "chump view of relationships." (thanks to stevera004)

Say I'm a woman and I want a guy that looks like Brad Pitt. If no Brad Pitt wannabees try to pick me up, I have to move down the list to other guys.

Are you saying you're satisfied being a girl's second choice, or third, or even fourth? "The guys I really like pay no attention to me, so I guess I'll settle for Ricky..." Does that sound like a position you'd like to be in?

Attraction can be increased by flirting, ****y and funny and all of these things.

That was clearly stipulated in my first post. "INCREASED" being the operative word, not "created."

Just go out to meet girls, get detached from the outcome... but do realize that you are the one that has a choice in this as well.

THIS is a worthwhile contribution. Both parties have a choice, but they each must make the same choice from the outset for a successful sexual relationship to result.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by drZaius09
Of course, the very instant a woman lays eyes on you, she's already made 90% of her decision, whether you guys like it or not, or whether you choose to believe it or not.

That was about initial attraction. Lets imagine: a geeky type with glasses, styleless haircut and shoulders shorter than his hips... Attractive guy? No? Let me introduce him: Bill Gates.
Oh, her IL changed already....

What matters is ultimately is her IL, not so much attraction. A super good looking dude with tons of muscle...might be very attractive until he opens his mouth. Her IL? Down.
If some broad bases 90% of her decision on his looks only, she's a good candidate for ONS. But if she is good in bed, wouldn't you want to fvck her again? Sadly, the game she is playing is ONS. One night, not more.
Conclusion? A loyal, good pvssy will try to figure out what kind of man you are, and not based her decision on looks only.
There is one simple problem there though... (very) good looking broads are not loyal and not good. They do judge you on looks. And those are women who are to be.... avoided.

 

[MrLuvr]

Originally posted by stevera004
You're feeding into the chump view of relationships. Somehow, that a guy a chick isn't turned on by will be able to build that attraction. Well, it just doesn't happen. Even if you 'build' the attraction, you will have to work like a ba$tard your whole life to maintain it. Just not worth it.

And your Billy Joel example is shyte. Bill Joel is an ugly puss, but he's Billy freakin' Joel, and has line ups of chicks that want him. Why? Status of course. And that attracts women, he does not need to work hard to build it.

I think you are confusing being physically attractive and the concept of attraction.

Yes, women do judge men by their phsical appearance, BUT it is not nearly as important for it as it is for men.

Witness the countless number of good looking women with average to below average looking guys. It is not something that is an anomaly, it happens and it happens A LOT.

 

[MrLuvr]

Originally posted by al77
That was about initial attraction. Lets imagine: a geeky type with glasses, styleless haircut and shoulders shorter than his hips... Attractive guy? No? Let me introduce him: Bill Gates.
Oh, her IL changed already....

That is an extreme example, but it could be anything similar. Maybe he is a movie director, all of a sudden she is interested. Or he is an artist or a musician, women dig those types.. interest up. Or maybe he drives a harley and the woman digs motorbikes. It could be any one of a number of things.

 

[drZaius09]

Thanks for your response, but the issue at hand is building successful sexual relationships. Attraction is the basis of any real interest, especially as it relates to sexual relationships.

If you're satisfied with a woman who is more concerned with what you can provide for her than how much she legitimately desires you, all the more power to you. But ultimately no amount of material possessions will ever spark attraction in a woman. More often than not your token wife or girlfriend has no choice but to prowl the town looking for men she actually wants to have sex with. That's when the guys who understand how to qualify women for sexual attraction step in and bury that bone.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by drZaius09

If you're satisfied with a woman who is more concerned with what you can provide for her than how much she legitimately desires you, all the more power to you. But ultimately no amount of material possessions will ever spark attraction in a woman. More often than not your token wife or girlfriend has no choice but to prowl the town looking for men she actually wants to have sex with. That's when the guys who understand how to qualify women for sexual attraction step in and bury that bone.

Man's status cannot turn her on? It is not about money, it is about her IL that have many components: his looks, his status, his body, his charm,his money his wit, his confidence etc etc.

I am sure what you say works 100% with women. But the question is it works with what kind of women? Those who are super shallow, who discard everything about a guy besides his looks. That kind of woman is not into any kind of relationship, she is into being a sl*t and have a series of ONSs.
It may work out of course if you are planning to have mostly ONS, but something tells me it is not the best way to go.

Somehting tells me it is not about ONS at all, since guys who go to bars, pick up broads there and fvck them the same night never ask anything remotely close to what is being dicussed here. It is about a different scenario that they have in their minds. If that kind of guy would try to fit a "bar fly" into his scenario, it is not going to work.

 

[drZaius09]

Ok, I've actually been putting some thought into this, and I want to build on something al77 may be trying to say here.

Attraction and interest are exclusive entities. Attraction can indeed exist without interest, and vice versa. I don't think this is a revolutionary concept by any means, but I think once you can learn to recognize and exploit the difference, you can find ultimate success. This concept explains some of the more frustrating inter-gender predicaments we often find ourselves in. Such as the case when we meet a girl, game her well, and guage her attraction as high. But yet, we get no return phone call or get blown-off. Such as also the case when we date a girl once or twice, game her well, guage her attraction as high, and maybe even score a piece of ass or two. But yet, the next time you try to get together, she disappears and you never hear from her again. Both these situations can be defined as attraction without interest. Conversely, I'm sure everyone here has been LJBF'd enough times that I don't have to explain the concept of interest without attraction.

The key is to qualify attraction immediately and act on it immediately before a possible lack of interest seals your fate. Just as different girls have a different sense of what's attractive, they also have a different sense of what's interesting.

 

[Vince]

Witness the countless number of good looking women with average to below average looking guys. It is not something that is an anomaly, it happens and it happens A LOT. [/B]

That's true... however, a lot of women WILL NOT date great looking men... epsecially ones who look better than them.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Vince
a lot of women WILL NOT date great looking men... epsecially ones who look better than them.

Cuz those good looking dudes simply will not date unattractive women. They can do better.
Yes, women can get insecure in that case, but a good looking guy simply will not pursue a not so good looking chick persistently.
So you are right, lots of women (who look not great) will not date great looking men.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by drZaius09

Attraction and interest are exclusive entities.

Attraction can indeed exist without interest, and vice versa.

Such as the case when we meet a girl, game her well, and guage her attraction as high. But yet, we get no return phone call or get blown-off. Such as also the case when we date a girl once or twice, game her well, guage her attraction as high, and maybe even score a piece of ass or two. But yet, the next time you try to get together, she disappears and you never hear from her again. Both these situations can be defined as attraction without interest. Conversely, I'm sure everyone here has been LJBF'd enough times that I don't have to explain the concept of interest without attraction.

The key is to qualify attraction immediately and act on it immediately before a possible lack of interest seals your fate. Just as different girls have a different sense of what's attractive, they also have a different sense of what's interesting.

I think there are more to it.
Attraction could be in terms of a) looks. Many chick dig tall dark muscular guys, they think it is cool to date them. In this case attraction is almost artificial, it is almost IL "oh cool, I got such a great looking guy!" b) attraction on a deeper level, certainly not looks. This works good, but chicks cannot figure that out instantly, thats why it is wise to talk to her for sometime to let her feel it. This is certainly a very rare case.

And separately we have c) her IL.

Now how can we judge what kind of "attraction she feels? Type a) Type b) or type c)? There is no way of knowing that fast.

What you suggest sure work - if you are good looking, sure, you gotta act on it fast, since she may not like eveything else for various reasons.
The problem here is most men are NOT good looking, they have nothing to "act on" fast. In fact they seem want to aim at b), i.e. try to talk to her more and hope that the illusive type b will show up.