Assume The Rejection (i.e. Because She'll Never Say "No" Directly)

[Harry Wilmington]

Well, the title of this post pretty much says it all. But I'll expand on its premise a bit...

If you're bold enough to ask a girl out, there's a 98% chance you're going hear one of two answers: "Yes," or (insert excuse). That excuse usually translates to a "no."

You would think a concept like this would be obvious, but apparently it isn't. Day after day, I see guys on this board posting up stories that involve them asking a girl out (usually in a weak AFC manner) and her giving them an excuse that concludes with her not being able to meet up with him.

Here's an example of a typical story:

"So, I met this girl at a party, and we talked great, even made out with each other, and I got the digits. After x-amount of text messages (which they shouldn't be doing - texting KILLS relationships) I asked her if she wanted to meet up with me at a party on Friday. She replied back that she's busy this whole weekend but that we should get together soon. What should I do next?"

And my normal thought is: the guy should do NOTHING next, 'cause she just blew him off. She gave an excuse - i.e. no - and then she didn't counter-offer - i.e. no interest.

Now, guys have this thing called an "ego" that hates to get bruised. And the last thing a guy's ego wants to admit is that a girl doesn't find him attractive enough to go out with.

So, when a guy asks a girl out and she rejects his offer, his ego goes into defense mode: "Well, she must like me - after all, she made out with me at so-and-so's party! Besides, if she didn't want to go out with me, she'd just say 'NO' to me directly, right?"

Nope, wrong again!

Girls know about our egos, guys! They've heard countless horror stories about guys who killed themselves just because a girl left them or wouldn't go out.

Therefore, if they're going to reject you, they're going to do it in the safest way their minds know how to: by gently rejecting your date offer with some bogus excuse in hopes that you get the hint they're just not interested.

Don't believe me? Think back to some of the excuses you've heard over the years when asking a girl out: "oh, I have a big test the next day;" "my family's coming in town to visit me;" "I'm not feeling so well..." Think hard: would ANY of those things prevent you from finding at least an hour to spend with a girl you were that into?

Furthermore, even if you DID have a legit excuse for rejecting a date, didn't you at LEAST give her a counter-offer day where you COULD meet up with her?

If a girl is interested in you, she WANTS to see you, and will find a reason to do it, regardless of what's going on in her life. I once asked a girl out and she couldn't see me because one of her aunts had died... yet, despite her grief, she STILL managed to make a counter-offer date for the next week. Why? 'Cause she liked me.

The opposite is also true. When they DON'T like you, and DON'T want to go out with you, they try to throw every single reason they can at you as to why they can't see you. The only thing they won't normally throw at you is a direct "NO."

So, what do you do?

Well, if you want to have less stress involving a potential girl you're interested in, do this: ASSUME THE REJECTION. Anytime you ask a girl out and she says anything other than "yes," assume she's rejecting you. Don't take it personally, and don't lash out at her; just listen to her excuse, say "okay, cool," then hang up and throw her number away.

"But Harry," you may be asking yourself, "what if she really DOES like me, and her excuse is legit?"

One, the phone works both ways. If she has something else occupying her time on the day you want the date to happen, and she really DOES like you, she'll call you and set up another date.

Two, if you're not getting a counter-offer, 9 times out of 10 it's because she's NOT interested. (And that 1 time out of 10 is because she doesn't know dating etiquette and isn't aware of the whole "counter-offer" concept - but again, girls that really want to be with you will do this instinctively because they know if they don't, you may not contact them to ask them out again.)

At any rate, assuming the rejection is meant to de-stress YOU from thinking day in and day out about whether or not this girl likes you. Think of how simple of a concept it is: if she says yes, INTEREST; if she says anything other than yes, it equals "NO," as in NO INTEREST.

The bottom line is, women have a hard time spewing out the word "NO," and chances are you're not going to hear it. You have to learn to start listening for other language that indicates a lack of interest on her part so you can recognize it instead of going paranoid analyzing the actions of a girl you THINK is interested in you when she's really not. It will suck at first, but in the long run you'll be glad that you're able to decipher what she's saying so that you can concentrate on the girls who DO want to go out with you.

Hope this helps!

-Harry Wilmington

 

[BeDJ]

When you have interest in a woman, you make your intentions clear. A woman who has interest in you will make her intentions clear.

Unless you are a fool who stupidly deludes himself for the sake of pride, you can EASILY identify an interested woman.

 

[Who Dares Win]

I agree with what has been said, a girl which is interested in you would do anything possible to make it happen, she would not confuse you, playing games or make complicate what is simple.

A suggestion for the guys who want to be sure with no doubt is to be straight and make their intention clear, I do that all the time and the good thing is that girls which are not sure tend to appreciate the boldness and some which dont like me somehow decide to give a shot to see whats being it.

An other good conseguence is that rejections are much more straigh, there are no such things as "I dont know because there are exams", the rejections are more likely as "in your dreams" or "I will not even pick up the phone", which make it much simple to forget them and move on.

I don't know you but when a girl make clear that she doesnt want me, I stop ask myself how would it be (mind) nor considering a potential fvck (d1ck).

 

[msi]

If a girl rejects my offer with an excuse that sounds possibly legitimate and doesn't give me a counter-offer, I do not assume she isn't interested. And I don't assume she is playing games. I just take it for what it is -- maybe she has something going on. Who cares? It's usually dates that can easily lead to sex that are declined without a counter-offer in my opinion, which for me means I haven't built enough comfort/attraction, so I'll just work on that and try again. If she's declining something really simple like coffee without a counter-offer, you might be SOL. This is why I usually say something like, "We should get together for coffee this week. When are you free?" Trying to be "alpha" and being like, "Me. You. Drinks Thursday night." will come out awful if she's actually busy on Thursday. Then you have to ask her out again sometime, and now you're chasing her.

The bottom line is that I don't always counter-offer plans I decline. Some of my friends don't either. It doesn't mean we're never going to hang out... it just means people are busy, we'll eventually be free, then we'll hang. I agree a woman who is super-interested will counter-offer 100% of the time. I've seen this. But I think instantly writing her off is a bit much, especially if you can see her in person soon. Another element I find intriguing is how so many pieces of dating/whatever literature suggest being indifferent, not being too available to increase value, not jumping at her messages/invites/etc. There is no way in hell women do not do this same crap. When a women rejects my advances with some warmth, it drives me ****ing nuts and I feel like she's challenging me and I go berserk. If there's no warmth in her rejection, I move on. The vast majority of college women who truly reject me will simply avoid me, that seems to be the norm.

From what I have seen in my efforts to really increase my success with women, some actually won't go out with you right away. They want to "get to know you" a bit before the date. Yes this is counter-intuitive, but some women are shy, or introverted, or have an abusive history -- you don't know, I don't know, again, who cares, talk a bit more, ask again if you like her, no big deal.

Writing women off so quickly goes against "spinning more plates" in my opinion. If you really are spinning a few plates, and the girl you really want rejects your first offer, why would it hurt you to maybe talk to her a little more then ask her out again? If a women thinks you're just trying to get into her pants, and she declines for whatever reason (hey, maybe she really likes you and doesn't want to get hurt), and you persist a little, I bet she'd really like that.

Now if a woman totally avoids you or there is ZERO warmth in her invitation decline, you might want to totally forget about her. I equate warmth with a counter-offer in most situations.

I feel that even if a woman rejects me once, assuming I can talk to her in person a little more, she will eventually see how awesome I am and come around. You may say, "well she's just going to make you an orbiter." But women don't decide which men are orbiters... the men decide how they're going to behave. As long as you have a cut-off line, I think you'll be OK.

 

[EastWind]

The problem is the numbers game. Not enough women will be interested enough in you to make their intentions known. Furthermore, I don't think its as easily identified as you think. It probably depends on the IL, desperation(because you are not in her league so she has nothing to lose pride-wise) and experience of the woman. Most women who you could attract via approaching will be very passive without you demonstrating interest first.

In a social circle or with a female friend, the girl is more likely to make her intentions known. In a club, a girl who comes right up to you and makes her intentions known overtly is usually a slvt or AW!

Re: the OP, while it is technically accurate, it is a dangerous rule of thumb for the AFC because it provides and excuse to not be aggressive and assertive.

99% of the time, even for experienced men, "being aggressive and assertive" leads to them spending too much time and effort on a specific girl. Maybe I wasn't aggressive enough? Maybe I didn't make myself clear? Her lack of interest is then masked quite easily.

There's actually very little besides calling her to set up a date that you can do. That's what Harry's point was. You call her, tell her you want to see her, and make an offer for a time and a place. If she says no, it doesn't matter what her reason is: provided the date would have been something fun for you, she either isn't willing to make the time for you or thinks your idea is boring, and in both cases she isn't for you.

I agree with Harry. Pook actually said this in one of his posts; we assign mystery to women in our head, a woman is a sphinx without a riddle, the riddle is in our mind.

The beautiful thing is that this is free from any "what if's". You cannot say "but what if it's because she's young and wants a guy who likes to party?" because if you aren't that guy she's not for you. You cannot say "but what if she's shy?" because if you're not to guy to know how to deal with that and she can't get out of her shell to even accept a date she's not for you.

It has nothing to do with lack of aggression and assertion, provided you actually did call her. Everything else is just forlorn hope.

 

[marmel75]

I have fvcked 2 chicks on a first date after they rejected my first offer and didn't counter. Left them alone for a week or so, contacted them again, talked for a little more and asked again. Both accepted and went. Both got fvcked that night.

One of them told me she was impressed the way I handled the situation. Not all girls are going to drop what they are doing for a dude they barely know, especially if they actually have things going on.

Yes, a lot of times it means no interest, but it doesn't hurt to act cool and try again.

 

[Mr. Bond]

I have fvcked 2 chicks on a first date after they rejected my first offer and didn't counter. Left them alone for a week or so, contacted them again, talked for a little more and asked again. Both accepted and went. Both got fvcked that night.

One of them told me she was impressed the way I handled the situation. Not all girls are going to drop what they are doing for a dude they barely know, especially if they actually have things going on.

Yes, a lot of times it means no interest, but it doesn't hurt to act cool and try again.

Agreed.

 

[Fatal Jay]

That's my problem I text entirely too much, stupid sh*t too, stuff like "what you doing" etc.

I know I need to start calling,and only call to meet up, but what if the girl text me, do I keep it short or do I just ignore it?

This was a good post, in my younger days I thought getting the number was a yes they like you, poor young dumb me, they can not be interested and still give you the number lol.

 

[NewAndImproved]

delete

 

[NewAndImproved]

I feel that even if a woman rejects me once, assuming I can talk to her in person a little more, she will eventually see how awesome I am and come around. You may say, "well she's just going to make you an orbiter." But women don't decide which men are orbiters... the men decide how they're going to behave. As long as you have a cut-off line, I think you'll be OK.

This has happened to me a few times and for my friends too.

However, I think sometimes it's better to just lay low and go NC. Sometimes we think pursuing will get the girl to "change her mind" and "see the light." Really, often, it's just the opposite, assuming there's a sufficient connection and amount of investment.

A guy continuing to work is ass off in pursuit of a girl is common. If the girl is hot, especially, it's happened before. She's supposed to realize that you're this one of a kind dude who she just has to go out with this way?!

A guy, however, withdrawing not rudely but simply not the one putting in all the effort to meet up anymore, isn't common.

A natural friend of mine went on five or six dates with a girl and then we happened to see her out at a bar, after lying that she was staying in for the night. The girl tried to avoid him but my friend approached her, was friendly and left it at that. Last time he contacted her. Done.

6 months later she reached out to him when she was visiting his home country and now they've been together for almost a year. When asked about what happened that night, she claims she "was afraid of getting hurt." Take it for what you will (backwards-rationalization probably) but I think it's a good example.

 

[Fatal Jay]

Woman are fudged up once you got them figured out, it's not hard to figure them out either.

 

[\O/]

There is a fine line between nexting too soon and confident persistence.

MOST of the time any flake (without conter offering) is a sign of low interest. In your mind you should at this point disregard the plate and consider it lost. However, IF there is some warmth to the way she flakes or declines, there really isn't anything to lose by trying one final time. Most likely she will flake again or withdraw, but now and again you will be able to meet her again and have the opportunity to raise her interest face to face.

Many guys who struggle with women does not yet have the abundance necessary to enforce the strict nexting you are suggesting.

I agree with assuming the rejection, but i don't agree with cutting your losses at the first sign of slight disinterest. I also believe your gut will tell you when the ship has sailed. At this point it is important to stop contacting, delete her number and move on to the next. Keep your self respect.

When to next her also has to be seen in context with how much contact you have had with her prior to the flake. Did you just get her number at a bar while under the influence, did you make out with her, did you fvck her, how many dates etc.

I think 2 strikes and you're out is a good rule. I give them one last chance if they flake on me the first time. If they flake or come up with an excuse again, i delete number and move on.

 

[Huffman]

Now, guys have this thing called an "ego" that hates to get bruised. And the last thing a guy's ego wants to admit is that a girl doesn't find him attractive enough to go out with.

I want to touch on this, because it's huge. Sometimes, every man comes to a point where he realises he's just not as good as he thought he was. And it hurts. I know because I have a huge ego.

Now the challenge lies in
a) accepting you're not there yet
b) not getting demotivated because you're still not there yet!

This may be the biggest issue in overcoming the ego; being humble without losing confidence at the same time.

Sadly I don't really have a formula, I just know I'm a really sore loser and when I realize I'm bad at something I prided myself on, I feel like punching walls and smashing stuff.... :box:

 

[Darth]

When you have interest in a woman, you make your intentions clear. A woman who has interest in you will make her intentions clear.

Unless you are a fool who stupidly deludes himself for the sake of pride, you can EASILY identify an interested woman.

Just because you can do something and I can do something doesn't mean everybody can. This is where I think personality comes in. We all have different personalities and therefore we should use different approaches- not a cookie cutter approach.

Some of us can quickly, easily, and accurately identify what girls are thinking through pure intuition. For us it is pretty easy to determine if we will be rejected before we even ask, so we don't really have to put ourselves out there. We can accurately interpret all of the little hints that women send out, and can send them back.

But there are others that either do not easily pick up subtle hints- or they do pick them up but their intuition is simply wrong so often that they learn to disregard their gut feelings. It's not their fault and I'm sure that they have their own natural abilities that we lack. For these guys, it is a numbers game, and they must actually ask the girl out and listen to her response in order to determine interest (among other things). Based on the approach where you are listening to the content of her response (rather than reading feelings), I think this post seems like a good rule of thumb.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Before I respond to msi's post, I must say this: Although I disagree with much of his response, I have to commend him for stating his opinions without being disrespectful. Also, due to the length of this reply, I'm dividing it into two parts.

Okay, here goes...

If a girl rejects my offer with an excuse that sounds possibly legitimate and doesn't give me a counter-offer, I do not assume she isn't interested. And I don't assume she is playing games. I just take it for what it is -- maybe she has something going on. Who cares?

Usually, the guy asking for the date cares. By not giving him a direct "no, i'm not interested," the girl leaves the guy in limbo land. Sure, she MIGHT be interested, but her statement of "oh, I can't go with you on x-day for x-date" with no counter-offer didn't give any indication of that. So now, he has to go back and forth with himself about whether or not he should continue perusing her.

I'm an odds man, so I don't really care about the 2-5% of the time where a girl that doesn't counter offer but still likes me. What I care about is the remaining 95% of the time where, when a girl doesn't provide you with a counter-offer, it means she's NOT interested. Again, you can look at the majority of the stories on these boards, and most of the ones where the girl gives an excuse not to go on a date with a guy with no counter-offer are the ones where she ended up not being interested in him in the first place.

It's usually dates that can easily lead to sex that are declined without a counter-offer in my opinion, which for me means I haven't built enough comfort/attraction, so I'll just work on that and try again.

Not true. I've been on plenty of first/second dates where neither me nor her expected sex to happen. And these were dates where we went out someplace and, due to circumstances, couldn't even meet up in either one of our places to have sex, so it wasn't planned on in advance. (Thank goodness for car sex!)

Girls decline guys for a wide variety of reasons; dates that may lead to sex aren't one of them. If she doesn't want sex, she can always suggest a date that wouldn't end up with her back at your apartment. The only reason she's not accepting the date is because, at the time you ask her, she's either not interested or has better stuff to do with her time - and if the 2nd one is true, it's usually the result of the first thing being true as well.

If she's declining something really simple like coffee without a counter-offer, you might be SOL. This is why I usually say something like, "We should get together for coffee this week. When are you free?" Trying to be "alpha" and being like, "Me. You. Drinks Thursday night." will come out awful if she's actually busy on Thursday. Then you have to ask her out again sometime, and now you're chasing her.

I actually agree. I always tell them the activity we should do, and give them the option of two different times. If neither of those times work, she is free to COUNTER-OFFER with a different day/time that would work for her. As long as she's helping to establish a time when she can see me, it's showing she WANTS to see you; if she's not, she has LOW interest.

The bottom line is that I don't always counter-offer plans I decline. Some of my friends don't either. It doesn't mean we're never going to hang out... it just means people are busy, we'll eventually be free, then we'll hang.

Not counter-offering in general is pretty rude. With that said, though, how you treat your buddies should be, at times, different than how you treat someone you're trying to go out with. Like, just 'cause I cuss around my guy friends doesn't mean I'll be able to do the same around my Mom.

Anytime I have to cancel plans with a woman, I ALWAYS let her know a day I can make it up; and, I expect the same from her. No woman that has dated me and not counter-offered stayed around for long - it ends up being a tell-tale sign that she's losing interest. On the other hand, all the girls that have been really, REALLY interested in me rarely broke dates, and always counter-offered when they did. Again, I'm going for the MOST INTERESTED girls, not the ones I have to keep reminding to spend time with me.

I agree a woman who is super-interested will counter-offer 100% of the time. I've seen this. But I think instantly writing her off is a bit much, especially if you can see her in person soon.

Okay, so we agree. So, what's the worst thing that can happen if you write her off right away?

Well, I've played this game before, so I'll tell you what happens. You call the girl up and ask her for a date twice (note: I DO agree with the "2 tries" theory of rejection). The first time, she says she's busy, no counter-offer. The second time, you call her a week later and she says "oh man, I have a friend coming into town so I can't do it this weekend, sorry." Again, no counter offer.

So, I write her off. I stop calling her and asking for dates. Now, when I see her in person, I'm cordial to her, and talk to her like nothing's wrong. But I stop asking her out.

You know what happens? Well, if we go by your theory and it turns out she actually DID have interest in me, what happens is she starts realizing that I've stopped asking her out. And then, she starts seeing that I'm flirting with other girls, and she's wondering if I'm going out with any of these girls.

Eventually - and again, this is based on experience - SHE is the one that comes to me and asks me to do something with her. At this point, I don't call her out on previous rejections or mention to her that she never made counter-offers; I simply ask her what she had in mind; what day and time; and set up transportation details.

I go on these dates and don't pay for anything, and I end up banging her later that night.

So, in short: by cutting her off, I'm showing that I'm (a) not needy, (b) don't get all emotional when a girl doesn't accept my dates, and (c) that it's ME, not her, that is the prize - so why would I care if she's in my life or not anyway?

By having this mindset, as well as the ability to write a chick off that's not showing me the behaviors I deem necessary to ensure her interest in me, it gives me peace of mind and prevents one-i-tis from setting in.

Another element I find intriguing is how so many pieces of dating/whatever literature suggest being indifferent, not being too available to increase value, not jumping at her messages/invites/etc. There is no way in hell women do not do this same crap.

Ah, but there's the rub!

Unlike men, women have a harder time finding the "right guy" due to the long list of necessities she feels her man must have. Aside from looking good, he needs to be able to take care of her and any kids they may produce; he needs to be able to show he can protect her; support her financially; and not be an abusive jerk who's going to beat her to death* (*this applies only to sane girls).

Finding all these qualities in a man can be tough for them. Therefore, when a guy comes along that has the majority of the qualities she's looking for, it is NEVER in her best interest to be indifferent, unavailable, or not answer his messages/invites. Why? Because, in her mind, if she does, he might go away, and she'll be left pining for someone she can't have.

That's why I say: if she's not accepting dates or counter-offering, it's due to LOW INTEREST, meaning the guy that's asking her isn't showing off all the things she needs in her man to be interested in him.

Keep reading below...

 

[Harry Wilmington]

When a women rejects my advances with some warmth, it drives me ****ing nuts and I feel like she's challenging me and I go berserk. If there's no warmth in her rejection, I move on.

Um... okay, this makes no sense. Rejection is rejection. It doesn't matter if she's rejecting you with a smile on her face or while hitting you with a shovel - it's still a "NO."

And when they do this, they're not challenging you. Once again, this is the male ego making an excuse for her behavior so he can try at it again. 9 times out of 10, they're doing this because they don't want to date you at the time.

Now, could she come back a few months later and change her mind? Of course. Until that actually happens, though, you still need to ASSUME THE REJECTION, or risk driving yourself crazy going after someone that, for that time, doesn't want you being the guy she dates.

From what I have seen in my efforts to really increase my success with women, some actually won't go out with you right away. They want to "get to know you" a bit before the date. Yes this is counter-intuitive, but some women are shy, or introverted, or have an abusive history -- you don't know, I don't know, again, who cares, talk a bit more, ask again if you like her, no big deal.

And again, that's fine - but it's still a REJECTION. I don't care about the reason behind their rejection - the bottom line is, I'm still not getting the date in. Like I said in the OP, the phone works both ways - if she decides she wants to see me at some point, she can reach out to ME. I'll be too busy hitting on other prospects to even be thinking about her that hard by the time she asks me out, and may not even be available!

Writing women off so quickly goes against "spinning more plates" in my opinion. If you really are spinning a few plates, and the girl you really want rejects your first offer, why would it hurt you to maybe talk to her a little more then ask her out again? If a women thinks you're just trying to get into her pants, and she declines for whatever reason (hey, maybe she really likes you and doesn't want to get hurt), and you persist a little, I bet she'd really like that.

Once again, I'm playing the odds. And the odds state, if you ask her out twice and she rejects both offers, she's probably not interested.

Now, if you're spinning plates and are confident in yourself, you shouldn't be so hung up on whether or not this girl you "really" want comes back to you because you shouldn't be so infatuated with her in the first place.

And, let's be real: women think EVERY guy is just trying to get into her pants, so that argument is bogus. Women WANT a guy to get into their pants at some point - it just has to be the guy they view as the RIGHT guy for them. I've had girls tell me before that they didn't want to get hurt, and I still ended up banging them. Why? 'Cause they viewed me as the guy that wouldn't hurt them, all within the span of 1 or 2 dates.

It wasn't about them knowing I wanted to get in their pants; it was about them TRUSTING me that I wanted more than that. That's the part of the game a guy's gotta get right if he wants to take girls out and bang them.

Now if a woman totally avoids you or there is ZERO warmth in her invitation decline, you might want to totally forget about her. I equate warmth with a counter-offer in most situations.

Warmth does not equal a counter-offer. Only a counter-offer equals a counter-offer. Warmth just provides guys with the rationalization to ask an uninterested chick out on another date, which, after two invites, is just a waste of time.

I feel that even if a woman rejects me once, assuming I can talk to her in person a little more, she will eventually see how awesome I am and come around. You may say, "well she's just going to make you an orbiter." But women don't decide which men are orbiters... the men decide how they're going to behave. As long as you have a cut-off line, I think you'll be OK.

Again - and this is just from personal experience - talking to a woman once she's rejected dates from you eventually puts you in the dredded "LJBF" zone.

When girls reject my date offers, I do the opposite and stop paying them so much attention. They might see me from time to time, and when they do I tell stories about all the fun things I'm doing, but I never invite them out. What I have found, though, is that if I do this enough they start trying to invite themselves along. That's when I see that they may be growing interested in me.

But until that happens, I still ASSUME THE REJECTION, if not only for my own peace of mind. I don't have time to keep talking to a chick that isn't giving me the signs at the moment that indicate she wants to go out - it's just not worth it. And, unless she has a golden pvssy I don't know about, I can always find other girls that ARE ready to accept dates from me.

 

[nismo-4]

Women who are interested in you WON'T confuse you. When a woman confuses a man, she knows why she is. Because she can't tell him to get lost without hurting his feelings or he gives the girl a black eye.

Um... okay, this makes no sense. Rejection is rejection. It doesn't matter if she's rejecting you with a smile on her face or while hitting you with a shovel - it's still a "NO."

Damn right.

And when they do this, they're not challenging you. Once again, this is the male ego making an excuse for her behavior so he can try at it again. 9 times out of 10, they're doing this because they don't want to date you at the time.

The truth! Bolded is the truth squared!

Now, could she come back a few months later and change her mind? Of course. Until that actually happens, though, you still need to ASSUME THE REJECTION, or risk driving yourself crazy going after someone that, for that time, doesn't want you being the guy she dates.

Why would a man want to chase the carrot anyway? Sh*t happens.

And again, that's fine - but it's still a REJECTION. I don't care about the reason behind their rejection - the bottom line is, I'm still not getting the date in. Like I said in the OP, the phone works both ways - if she decides she wants to see me at some point, she can reach out to ME. I'll be too busy hitting on other prospects to even be thinking about her that hard by the time she asks me out, and may not even be available!

Rejection means no interest. Accept it as such.

Once again, I'm playing the odds. And the odds state, if you ask her out twice and she rejects both offers, she's probably not interested.

SHE'S NOT INTERESTED IF THIS HAPPENS!

Now, if you're spinning plates and are confident in yourself, you shouldn't be so hung up on whether or not this girl you "really" want comes back to you because you shouldn't be so infatuated with her in the first place.

Finally!

And, let's be real: women think EVERY guy is just trying to get into her pants, so that argument is bogus. Women WANT a guy to get into their pants at some point - it just has to be the guy they view as the RIGHT guy for them. I've had girls tell me before that they didn't want to get hurt, and I still ended up banging them. Why? 'Cause they viewed me as the guy that wouldn't hurt them, all within the span of 1 or 2 dates.

Since women always have options and women can get a man at any time they want, women want the top 10% of men. If you aren't there, you've got an uphill battle.

It wasn't about them knowing I wanted to get in their pants; it was about them TRUSTING me that I wanted more than that. That's the part of the game a guy's gotta get right if he wants to take girls out and bang them.

If only you could explain this to the community.

Warmth does not equal a counter-offer. Only a counter-offer equals a counter-offer. Warmth just provides guys with the rationalization to ask an uninterested chick out on another date, which, after two invites, is just a waste of time.

And said counter offer has to be followed through!

Again - and this is just from personal experience - talking to a woman once she's rejected dates from you eventually puts you in the dredded "LJBF" zone.

It actually puts you there if you drag out the rejection. More proof that the male penis has no social value.

When girls reject my date offers, I do the opposite and stop paying them so much attention. They might see me from time to time, and when they do I tell stories about all the fun things I'm doing, but I never invite them out. What I have found, though, is that if I do this enough they start trying to invite themselves along. That's when I see that they may be growing interested in me.

May being the key word. When I get rejected, they get no attention from me.

But until that happens, I still ASSUME THE REJECTION, if not only for my own peace of mind. I don't have time to keep talking to a chick that isn't giving me the signs at the moment that indicate she wants to go out - it's just not worth it. And, unless she has a golden pvssy I don't know about, I can always find other girls that ARE ready to accept dates from me.

The sad thing is that most women these days think that their pu$$ies are golden.

Read betwee-Long post.

Case closed.