Are womans just plain shallow by nature?

[Splendidostring]

Here's a question I ask myself a lot these days...are woman just plain shallow by nature?

If I take a look at all the relationships I have, all I've noticed is the following :

-woman want you to make them feel good at all times therefore BAD emotions are a NO NO (even if you're claims are legit, you look like an *******)
-Getting respect from her is a ***** for you always have to avoid tests she sends you (meaning if you plan on being honest, you're screwed since she's gonna use EVERY possible argument to win)
-Getting her to think your way is also quite impossible unless her brain is wired like yours.
-From my own experience, woman only want to know certain things about you. I you feel like sharing some life experiences you FEEL changed your life or just talk about your interests, good luck. The only way she'll listen to you is when she has high interest and even at this point she's not REALLY listening to you, she's just surfing on the feeling and appreciating it.

At this point in my life I realize that relationships are a waste of my time. I mean, the hard days are long gone so long-term relationships have no real value anymore. So what's next?

I'll admit that a part of me feels broken up inside. I've always wanted to meet a girl that would live up to my expectations and I always thought it was possible. Such bull****. I guess the only thing left is to enjoy my inner-male pleasures such as getting as much sex and ego boost as possible and them dump them.

 

[slaog]

Here's a question I ask myself a lot these days...are woman just plain shallow by nature?

No.

-woman want you to make them feel good at all times therefore BAD emotions are a NO NO (even if you're claims are legit, you look like an *******)

Nobody wants a moody person around them. When my GF is in a bad mood I tell her to change her attitude. When I'm in a bad mood I'm not whinging and moaning about things to people. Just as we don't want to be womens emotional tampons women certainly don't want to be emotional tampons to men.

-Getting respect from her is a ***** for you always have to avoid tests she sends you (meaning if you plan on being honest, you're screwed since she's gonna use EVERY possible argument to win)

Getting respect is simple and it should come naturally. If you respect yourself you won't tolerate anybody else disrespecting you. Women lose respect for weak men who they can easily control (AFC's).

-From my own experience, woman only want to know certain things about you. I you feel like sharing some life experiences you FEEL changed your life or just talk about your interests, good luck. The only way she'll listen to you is when she has high interest and even at this point she's not REALLY listening to you, she's just surfing on the feeling and appreciating it.

That makes sense. Would you have any interest in some of your neighbours lives? The more a person means to somebody the higher somebody will take an interest in that person.


All the things you mentioned are what happens to AFC's. Better yourself and choose a quality woman and those problems will go away.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Here's a question I ask myself a lot these days...are woman just plain shallow by nature?

The way I read your post, and the way slaog read it seems to be very different so I thought I should respond to see if I read you right.

-woman want you to make them feel good at all times therefore BAD emotions are a NO NO (even if you're claims are legit, you look like an *******)

I didn't read this as you being moody. Rather, I read this as pointing out how a lot of women can't deal with harsh truths in their life.

Personally I refuse to treat a woman like a child and because of that I know I miss a lot of opportunities. Too many women I've known have wanted the man in their life to take 100% responsibility for how that woman feels / how her life goes. Of course this is completely unrealistic and probably part of why there is such a high divorce rate.

-Getting respect from her is a ***** for you always have to avoid tests she sends you (meaning if you plan on being honest, you're screwed since she's gonna use EVERY possible argument to win)

A lot of women have a generally low opinion of men. It's probably best to avoid them.

-Getting her to think your way is also quite impossible unless her brain is wired like yours.

Stupid people are usually to dumb to know how ignorant they are.

-From my own experience, woman only want to know certain things about you. I you feel like sharing some life experiences you FEEL changed your life or just talk about your interests, good luck. The only way she'll listen to you is when she has high interest and even at this point she's not REALLY listening to you, she's just surfing on the feeling and appreciating it.

She's not listening because she doesn't really care about who the man is. You're probably old enough to have seen it by now: a woman gets married to a man not because she loves him, but rather because she loves the idea of being married. It's fvcked up, its inhumane but that's the way a lot of women are.

So what's next?

Do your best to get the other things you want in life.

 

[Splendidostring]

Following up

To Slaog :

Nobody wants a moody person around them. When my GF is in a bad mood I tell her to change her attitude. When I'm in a bad mood I'm not whinging and moaning about things to people. Just as we don't want to be womens emotional tampons women certainly don't want to be emotional tampons to men.

I definitely agree with you that but that's not my point. Maybe I didn't speak my mind properly. Here's an exemple of what I mean : A few weeks ago, I was supposed to do something with my now ex gf. We were only able to see each other on monday because of her schedule. Comes monday, she calls me and tells me she can't make it because she has some project to do. Then she asks me if it's fine with me. I tell her "no it's not ok with me but it's not your fault and there's nothing I can do right!" She tells me that she thinks i'm being rude and that it's not her fault. I told her she was right but here's what I was thinking : She should understand that it's impossible to create a solid relationship if I can't see her. The reason I said it wasn't ok was simply because that was the only night we could see each other during the week and I always had to be the one to bend over about it, she'd never come out with any plans of her own, I simply couldn't take it anymore. (This being the major reason why I pre-dumped her BTW, I'm never gonna date a career-driven woman again, I swear they're the worse kind to date, it's like they do EVERYTHING HUMANLY possible to make their schedule impossible to match)

Makes more sense?

Getting respect is simple and it should come naturally. If you respect yourself you won't tolerate anybody else disrespecting you. Women lose respect for weak men who they can easily control (AFC's).

That's the whole reason why we're not together anymore.

To Lex Luthor :

Yes, you got me right.

I'm not a moody person. I actually enjoy the company of woman, I love the ego-boost (I know ), the sex and I actually WANT them to enjoy themselves when they're with me. I want to make sure we BOTH get a good time.

She's not listening because she doesn't really care about who the man is. You're probably old enough to have seen it by now: a woman gets married to a man not because she loves him, but rather because she loves the idea of being married. It's fvcked up, its inhumane but that's the way a lot of women are.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. She's with you but at the same time she doesn't CARE about you the way you WANT her to. You want her to TRY to understand you! learn where you come from! What you love! And you want to do it for her too! You don't want to be a "quick fix" she can use to bring her closer to her stupid fantasy. I Don't want it to be like Ken and barbie you know?

 

[slaog]

I get what you're saying.

If I take a look at all the relationships I have, all I've noticed is the following :

After reading that its clear that you're the problem. You explained that you're not moody etc so it must be that or your choice of women. Theres plenty of quality women out there and its a matter of knowing where to find them.


Alot of guys have no clear idea of what type of woman they're looking for. Write out a list of things you like and don't like. This will help to make it clear in your mind what you're looking for. If you find women who ticks too many negative boxes then don't waste your time with them.

 

[Colossus]

Splendidostring-

You're at that point in life where we begin to realize the not-so-rosy truth about women and relationships.

Regarding your observations:

-woman want you to make them feel good at all times therefore BAD emotions are a NO NO (even if you're claims are legit, you look like an *******)

Many women, yes; but if she is a decent human being she will understand you have fvcking feelings just like she does. What women DON'T want is for a man to use her as a feelings-dump.

-Getting respect from her is a ***** for you always have to avoid tests she sends you (meaning if you plan on being honest, you're screwed since she's gonna use EVERY possible argument to win)

A lot of the respect issue depends on the girl, and how you treat yourself. But I agree that honesty is not always the best policy with women. Because once that cat's out of the bag....man it's out for good. You cant un-say something. There are many things I wish I hadn't said. They will take your truth and bend like a pretzel so they can use it against you for the rest of your life.

-Getting her to think your way is also quite impossible unless her brain is wired like yours

Accept it, don't fight it.

-From my own experience, woman only want to know certain things about you. I you feel like sharing some life experiences you FEEL changed your life or just talk about your interests, good luck. The only way she'll listen to you is when she has high interest and even at this point she's not REALLY listening to you, she's just surfing on the feeling and appreciating it.

Somewhat, yes; but think about how you listen to women. If you aren't that into a girl (you just want to bang), then you aren't going to give a crap about what she's talking about. Even half the stuff your gf says will go in one ear and out the other. They talk so much it's impossible to listen to everything anyway. BUT--if you are in a relationship with a chick and its obvious she doesn't give a sh!t about your problems, dump her selfish as$ and go find someone else. Provided she isnt a totally selfish westernized b!tch, when a girl cares about you she will also care about what's going on in your life.

One thing I have realized is that when a girl is over you, it doesnt matter if you saved her freaking life, bought her a home, and fathered her children....she will move on from you so fast it will crush your heart. In fact, they have usually "moved-on" (branch-swung) before you even realize it. Therefore, never feel guilty about entertaining other options. I'm not saying cheat on your girl, but don't hesitate to have one in the wings. And don't ever stop going out with your boys.

 

[Da Realist]

Sounds more like you want a woman who will think like a man or know how to let her logic take command over her feelings. It's not going to happen, at least in your prescence.

You have think for second about how human society came up. When something happened, men ran head first into danger while women rounded up the kids and took them off somewhere. The same thing sticks with how we deal with problems today. Men seek an immediate solution while women basically hide till the coast is clear to actaully solve the problem. I've been in a situation where I didn't do anything wrong, but because the woman I told the problem to was hurt by what happened, I got treated like I did something. Luckily one of her friends wasn't some bitter brat and it turned out alright.

The thing is that you can't rely on women to deal with somethings right there and then because it's just not them. Guys just have to realize that they can either be the bearer of bad news or let things reveal themselves. If you have to tell them something, get straight to the point, see if they need conforting, and back away to let them deal with stuff. Don't go in trying fix stuff or prove a point because it comes out to you being wrong or bad in someway. If they want to dispute reality, let them and keep moving. They'll repsect you when you're not pleading your case and they see that what you said stands while what they think means nothing.

 

[Splendidostring]

Hello guys,

Lots of interesting posts in there, thanks for your replies.

One thing I have realized is that when a girl is over you, it doesnt matter if you saved her freaking life, bought her a home, and fathered her children....she will move on from you so fast it will crush your heart. In fact, they have usually "moved-on" (branch-swung) before you even realize it. Therefore, never feel guilty about entertaining other options. I'm not saying cheat on your girl, but don't hesitate to have one in the wings. And don't ever stop going out with your boys.

You're right. "Bros before hoes" Amen to that

The thing is that you can't rely on women to deal with somethings right there and then because it's just not them. Guys just have to realize that they can either be the bearer of bad news or let things reveal themselves. If you have to tell them something, get straight to the point, see if they need conforting, and back away to let them deal with stuff. Don't go in trying fix stuff or prove a point because it comes out to you being wrong or bad in someway. If they want to dispute reality, let them and keep moving. They'll repsect you when you're not pleading your case and they see that what you said stands while what they think means nothing.

Learned it the hard way, learned it still

I think the bottom line of this is that deep down, I always wanted to find DA ONE. But now, with all the knowledge I learned through the years, I need to shift my attention to something that matters to me ...and that's it.

 

[Mr. Me]

>> I tell her "no it's not ok with me but it's not your fault and there's nothing I can do right!" She tells me that she thinks i'm being rude and that it's not her fault. >>

Based on how you answered her, as well as the expectations you expressed regarding women, I think what's happening to cause your disillusionment is that you're not getting that relationships don't work the way you'd like. It's about male/female dynamics, not a "I'd like her to appreciate my life-changing experiences" and "I'd like to get her to think like I do" or "I ought to be able to have bad emotions around her and that should be acceptable". You've got a totally wrong idea of what it means to have another human being in your life.

That being said, if you find you're the one doing all the work to keep something going, then something's wrong.
And if you find you're asking questions such as "are all women shallow", it means you've got the wrong idea of how things work and that you're not looking in the right direction for the root of the problem.
Part of the problem is in your set of expectations.

 

[jophil28]

I'll admit that a part of me feels broken up inside. I've always wanted to meet a girl that would live up to my expectations and I always thought it was possible.

Perhaps it is possible and perhaps such a girl would meet YOUR hopes ,and your definition or a "soulmate"..( that word does have a place and a legit meaning sometimes).. but be prepared for a long campaign.

I think that you (like a lot of guys) are really wanting to meet a woman who thinks like a man, has the same appreciation of honor, committment and loyalty as a good man has , BUT with a face like Jessica Alba, double D's and a smokin' body.

Are you disheartened or disillusioned so far ? Of course you are because a woman like that is RARE. If she exists at all.
It is not difficult to meet a hot looking woman. Good looks are common, but good character, not so much.The problems start when we expect women to act in ways that demonstrate maturity in thought and action.
Women are creatures of immediacy. They will usually act in ways that are led by the demands of their emotions and to hEll with the likely consequences..

Here is an example - I have always had an expectation that my LTR (whoever she was at the time) would place me at the top of her loyalty totem pole. LIke most men, I have a vertical belief in loyalty and it's apportionment.
I expect that the person closest to me will hold me, and our relationship,as her priority . I also expect her to have my back, defend me against snipes from others and generally "stand by her man".
Imagine my surprise a few years ago when my LTR verbally attacked me on the way home after I had a few unfriendly words with one of her girls. My LTR sided with her girl and blamed me for responding to a baitch comment which her girl initiated. Clearly, her loyalty was with her girlfriend ,and I was regarded as 'the problem' even though her girl had trumped up some drama in the first place to provoke me.

What did I do? I demoted LTR to casual FB. She had demonstrated that she was unfit for a committment from me and unsuitable to be in an LTR because she had shown loyalty to her girl over me. At the time I tried to explain to her why I was pulling back. She was having none of it. To her mind, she acted honorably toward her girl, and my feelings were irrelevant. So I explained to her that I was no longer willing to give what I was not getting - priority and loyalty.That incident was an eye opener for me I realized that most women have NO regard for the impact of their behavior on their men.
And the tragedy is that most men will stay in a relationship with a woman who betrays their relationship and transfers her loyalty to a third person because she FEELS the pull of an immediate emotion.

Ultimately you need to realize this - The higher your standards the fewer women are going to meet them. Just the way life is.

 

[Splendidostring]

To Mr.Me

Thanks for your answer

Based on how you answered her, as well as the expectations you expressed regarding women, I think what's happening to cause your disillusionment is that you're not getting that relationships don't work the way you'd like. It's about male/female dynamics, not a "I'd like her to appreciate my life-changing experiences" and "I'd like to get her to think like I do" or "I ought to be able to have bad emotions around her and that should be acceptable". You've got a totally wrong idea of what it means to have another human being in your life.

As of everyone (I suppose), I've watched how my parents behaved together. Both of my parents have flaws and I often wondered why they've been sticking together for so long (they're still together). I often witnessed my father acting like a REAL jerk toward her (my father has LEGIT issues BUT he can SNAP over nothing and start yelling and breaking things and hide for days without even talking). But in the end my mother was always there for him, she'd always pick up the pieces and try to make it work. (My mother also has flaws, I think she can't live alone *that's just me*) After his crisis my father would start "telling her" he is sorry by buying her expensive stuff and my mom always said she loves it (don't know if she means it or not, pretty sure it's an excuse). Now that I've said that (to be honest), I know that they're always there for each other ...if they have troubles they have each other's back. That's 1 thing I've learned from my parents and I guess that's the thing I expect the most in a relationship. I must also say in reference to what I said about my father that I don't want a woman so I can start acting like he does, I'll go see a psychiatrist if it comes to that.

Basically, here's where I come from.

As to my own relationships, let's just say they are no happy endings either.
Had to send 1 girl to the hospital (she was drunk and was *fooling around* with knives on her wrists) ---I wrote a post about that. She was crazy.

Lots of short-term relationships based on sex with no real meaning.

I've only been twice in a relationship, both lasted about 3 months. So yeah, I don't have much knowledge about them. I've always found myself (not that I wanted that) in short-term relationships.

To jophil28
Thanks for your answer BTW, you seem to have lots of experiences/baggage about relationships.

I think that you (like a lot of guys) are really wanting to meet a woman who thinks like a man, has the same appreciation of honor, committment and loyalty as a good man has , BUT with a face like Jessica Alba, double D's and a smokin' body.

You're right.

Are you disheartened or disillusioned so far ? Of course you are because a woman like that is RARE. If she exists at all.
It is not difficult to meet a hot looking woman. Good looks are common, but good character, not so much.The problems start when we expect women to act in ways that demonstrate maturity in thought and action.
Women are creatures of immediacy. They will usually act in ways that are led by the demands of their emotions and to hEll with the likely consequences..

I got to face the music, being honest with myself right now .... I don't think it exists anymore.

Imagine my surprise a few years ago when my LTR verbally attacked me on the way home after I had a few unfriendly words with one of her girls. My LTR sided with her girl and blamed me for responding to a baitch comment which her girl initiated.

*Stabbed in the back* would describe how I would have felt. Letting her go was a wise decision.

Well, the facts are there ...we can't expect a woman to understand a man's code of honor. There might be some but better not expect it.

Ultimately you need to realize this - The higher your standards the fewer women are going to meet them. Just the way life is.

I can't say I completely realize it ....I'd be lying BUT I understand that time will go by ....and one day I'll reach the point where I'll really understand it.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

First off, at 25 there is no way you should be concerning yourself about monogamy. Your frustration with your Ex, and in fact everything you've posted thus far, is indicative of a monogamy-as-goal, ONEitis-primed state of mind. You are far too overly focused on propagating a relationship for your stage of maturity.

Your focus on achieving that monogamy 'goal' is rooted in the mistaken idea that it will content you. It wont. A woman should only ever be a compliment to a man's life, NEVER the focus of it. You're pissed off now, not because life sucks or women are 'shallow', or feminists ruined the world for everyone, but rather because your "goal" is an illusion. The only thing waiting for you on the other side of achieving your idealized monogamy state is the "now what" question, and the responsibility, liability and accountability that comes with it. This girl did you a favor.

Women want a Man that other men want to be, and other women want to ƒuck. You have to be that Man. Don't follow success, make success follow you. You need to be the guy that women want to associate themselves with. Monogamy isn't the goal; it may be a later, unavoidable, byproduct of a woman who compliments your life, but it IS NOT A GOAL. You're upset because inso "losing" this girl as you did, not only did you fall short of that idealization, but your purpose of idealizing it in the first place is being challenged. THIS is the root of your frustration.

Spin more plates. You'll be better for it in experience, and maturity, and less likely to regret marrying 2 or 3 "soulmates" when you reach 50.

 

[Sinistar]

Here's a question I ask myself a lot these days...are woman just plain shallow by nature?

Sure, just like men are horny by nature. Lots of men will call women shallow, cowards, devious, etc. When I see this I read "he's still frustrated and confused." Why are you frustrated and confused, the answer is below....

I'll admit that a part of me feels broken up inside. I've always wanted to meet a girl that would live up to my expectations and I always thought it was possible.

It's unhealthy expectations. Jophil gives a great example of unhealthy (and typically more youthful) expectations:

I think that you (like a lot of guys) are really wanting to meet a woman who thinks like a man, has the same appreciation of honor, committment and loyalty as a good man has , BUT with a face like Jessica Alba, double D's and a smokin' body.

Where do guys get this expectation from? Everywhere around us. Movies, music, TV, books. And even worse, wussy parents and the peer pressure of other friends and influences who also buy into these types of expectations.

So you're frustrated and confused. It's actually a good thing. As Rollo explained, you're discovering another level of reality. It is incongruent with your current beliefs (which drive expectations). Its sucks when finally realize what you believed in does not exist.

But you now have a new found awareness (the knowledge from this site). You are now responsible for your next set of actions given your new awareness.

Sure, you can go ahead and gripe, complain, abstain, etc. I say do it on some other site where the rest of the world will either pat you on the back for "taking a break" or shun your for "blaming women". But they are just the millions still plugged in parroting back messages they've never given a lick of thought. Do you really want this answer?

Look at your language "...I've always wanted to meet a girl that would..." Is that a line from a movie? It might as well be. It wreaks of a beta, surrender the frame attitude.

You can beat yourself up over this for years and failed relationship after failed relationship or you can stop for a minute and listen. I mean listen...

Put your self first starting today and never once change. Focus on career, health, family, friends, goals, hobbies. You know, good ole' fashioned man sh!t. The very thing most of society will shun or shame you for. While you're at it, kill off any remaining relationship goal states.

Then allow yourself to be surprised at the quality of women that are drawn to you. Notice, no unhealthy expectations since your focus is on a healthy you and healthy life. You will be surprised. You will be able to see and filter women more clearly because your focus is not on them. The women you meet will have no choice but to surrender to your frame and goals. You will meet interesting, attractive women. You will be picking instead of "wanting".

You're young. Are you really giving up? Or are you the kind that gets back up to finish kickin' ass?

 

[Splendidostring]

Hiya back guys,

Sorry for taking my time to answer back but I actually needed some time out to process all of these informations.

Took some time to read Rollo's "swinging plates" post.

The first thing that comes in my mind right now : "Oh MY FU CKING GOD, why didn't I learn this sooner?"

I mean, hell ..it's like there is this conspiration NOT to let it go out .."Oh my god, what COULD happen if men WERE TO ACTUALLY PRACTICE THIS OUT!" (kidding but at the same time there's some truth in what I just said).

This stuff is actually powerful because it allows us to GET THE POWER BACK. Woman only need to have a ***** to get a man. (I figure that's because we LET it control us)

I also think that this theory should be applied in a lot of our life's area. Let us be in control instead of being dependant.

That's all I have to say about this for the moment. Still reading lots of posts on the topic.