Are these Chinese women "leftover" because they are hypergamic?

MatureDJ

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http://news.yahoo.com/leftover-women-china-face-tough-choices-looking-love-044726614.html

The term "shengnu" - directly translated as "leftover women" - was coined to refer to professional women who have not married by their late 20s.

"Chinese people often think males should be higher in a relationship in every sense, including height, age, education and salary," Ni Lin, who hosts a popular match-making television show in Shanghai, told Reuters.

"This leads to a phenomenon in which A-grade men marry B-grade women, B-grade men marry C-grade women and C-grade men marry D-grade women. Only A-grade women and D-grade men can't find partners."
My favorite comment:

Leftover women?
How do you reheat them?
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
 

LiveFreeX

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Nah Chinese women are left overs because of their culture. Their parents FORCE them to marry higher status men, not the ones they like. The whole dating game is completely different here then at home. Its like comparing an apple to a 4 course meal at a fancy restaurant.

The leftover woman is a special case. She is born to rich parents, has had the freedom to pursue whatever she wanted in high-school and has basically been free on the majority of the restraints of Chinese culture. Likely, she speaks English and has been outside the country or coddled at home with her parents and grandparents. Many have NON EXISTENT social skills and no ability to speak to strangers. This also exists for the men btw... so you have both men and women who have no ability to communicate with each other whatsoever. So if you take away that portion, then it really becomes a business deal. Their marriage/dating life is usually used by their parents to make money... Chinese people are generally used by their parents as objects to make money for them... its sick really.

Anyway, so you can imagine, you will be in an arranged marriage to a rich, ugly man who will eventually cheat on you and you MUST do it because your parents say so. Your life is work/clean up after a super spoiled rich guy who is used to having everything done for him by his mother... so the girl basically becomes his mother. Then he feels its ok to cheat with multiple other girls...
The leftover women get careers so that they don't have to subscribe to this and can pick a husband that they like instead of having one chosen for them.
Imagine a child that has never heard the word 'NO' in his entire life. No matter how many temper tantrums or how much bad behavior, he has never been hit, disciplined or even spoken to in a stern manner. He is usually patted on the head and given some candy to tide him over. Now imagine being married to that person. Welcome to the Heavenly Kingdom (The culture that the leftover's belong to).

Chinese cannot date/marry one of their own without the approval of mom/dad/grandpa/grandma. So the Chinese guy has to impress ALL of them and be wealthy enough to take care of all of them in their old age because they will ALL be living with the couple. Yuck. It all comes down to money in this regard. The first thing a man will require in order for a woman to look at him is a HOUSE and CAR, without a house they will have nowhere to live. Secondly the CAR, this shows face in Chinese culture and is a display of power and wealth over the peasantry. Without these two things, you cannot marry into the upper class (IF YOU ARE CHINESE).

Now, there exists one unfair loop hole. Chinese women will fvck and marry foreigners without any money. Why? Because foreign guys don't have all the cultural programming/parents/grandparents holding them down and generally accept a woman for her personality/looks. Money rarely factors into that equation and most of the time, the girl in question with said foreigner will undergo all sorts of insane pressure from her family and 'male' friends to drop him... I've never heard of this happening, most Chinese girls promptly tell their parents/grandparents to suck eggs as do the foreign bfs.

My brother in law, upon our first meeting, laid out all sorts of ground rules for our relationship, things I could do with her and things I couldn't. I told him to fvck off and mind his own business. This came as a shock to the system for him and the 100 or so people in the village where she comes from. I said, this is my life and hers only, if she wants to leave at any time, she can, no one else makes decisions for OUR life and left it at that. Was I well received by her parents and family? No, I'm still considered the 'white devil' but I could really care less what a bunch of uneducated farmers think about me and my wife. I make more money in one month than their entire village. That was a few years ago, things have improved a bit since then... I guess they just came to accept that they weren't getting any money for her...

oh yeah almost forgot. There is a BRIDE PRICE that men have to pay for the women... it can be anywhere from 1000 dollars up to a million depending on the type of family she comes from. Also in Chinese culture, you date once, marry forever... so the girl that lets you fvck her is generally the girl that will attach herself to you. This is China's culture but the westernized Chinese (Taiwan) tend to think a bit differently.


The East and The West are two different animals entirely. I think you'd find most women here would be shocked to know that the Western girls get to DECIDE who they want to be with. Chinese women generally marry for children and their life revolves entirely around their child as the majority rarely receive any other meaningful stimulation for their life. Yes this is the REAL life of half the people in the world. They don't understand how foreigners can live individualistic and free lives, they are programmed from birth to defer to higher authority at all times. Most Chinese never develop any sort of hobbies or past-times outside of work/school. A few lucky ones get into basketball or video games but that encompass 99% of the hobbies here. There is no room for art/creativity only financial gain and grind. So when a Chinese girl meets a foreign guy, worlds collide and she will do whatever it takes to lock him down and break the loop.
 

Jitterbug

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Preferable to the individual or to society? What's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other.
 

LiveFreeX

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Interesting. I really don't know much at all about Chinese culture, especially romance-wise.

So do you think that individualism is preferable, or do you believe you just have a personal bias toward that since you're Western? And are there any Chinese you've met who subscribe to "Western" style individualism? (Or am I just way off?)
I would say a marriage of western and eastern value systems makes for a very strong future. That might just be personal bias though. ;)

Eastern women are grateful for the Western independence but they a firmly grounded in their belief systems. So marriage to a foreigner is like a breath of fresh air once in awhile. It makes for highly compatible marriages. If you are a western red pill popper then this type of woman makes sense to you. She works for the family, puts her nose to the grind and doesn't openly question your authority. You have what I like to call a 'one, two punch' to the feminist agenda. I believe the marriage of old and new is the perfect combination for a healthy future. The man 'from the new system of thought' can hold himself in check and respects a woman who holds to her tradition. One works as an individual for the family the other works as a support for the family. Both can appreciate the other and understand the other's wants and needs.

Thus I recommend more men from the West coming to the East to select brides. It will make your richer and happier in the long run.

I was in Brazil before I was in China, would only ever consider going back for the food.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/videos/preferential-treatment-and-status-for-foreigners-in-china.html
 
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Scaramouche

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Dear MDJ,
The Chinese Womens Federation is concerned about this too,it calls these Women "Yellowed Pearls"it offers the following advice "When holding out for a man, if you say he must be rich and brilliant, romantic and hardworking ... this is just being willful. Does this kind of perfect man exist? Maybe he does exist, but why on earth would he want to marry you?"....And so we may gather the CWF is far from being a Feminist organisation,seems down to Earth realistic...But Hypergamic or not,if you got tied up with one of these Girls,there would be no trouble,she would be loyal unto death and make a lovely Wife if that is your thing.
 

AAAgent

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Being Chinese myself and having traveled to many of the Chinese countries and growing up in Chinatowns i'd say there are alot of Chinese single women/leftovers because of the feminism that has trickled over to China through western industrialization. It used to be that women would marry a man to better their lives, now with women being more educated and making more money, they can hold out for what they think are better options for them and therefore missing their opportunity. Same exact concept as here in America. They are starting to want their cake and eat it too.

Women in China are demanding that any guy that wants to date them must fulfill the 3 C's: Cash, Condo, and Car (i heard both men and women in and out of China say this about Chinese women in China). I'd say in Asia, women are probably more materialistic than in Western cultures so that makes them very difficult to please and also one of the major reasons why they're single. The women are so picky that men resort to marrying foreign women in other Asian countries like Vietnam. The materialistic trait may stem from the fact that the Chinese went through a humiliating 200 years of history where their country which used to be the so called "Middle Kingdom" turned into a diseased laughable nation, so alot of women and men tend to act bigger, louder, etc. to compensate for that. You'll see that alot of mainland Chinese, South Koreans, and Vietnamese. Flashing pretty things will help them to overcompensate for their poor family or coming from a non urban area.

The whole thing with any type of woman marrying a foreigner is because they're exotic and stand out. It isn't any more complicated than that and has nothing to do with programming that LiveFree is saying. White people also still reflect higher status so although it is preferable to Marry an Asian or Chinese, white men will also be acceptable by families. Marrying a foreigner for a woman is better than becoming a spinster and being shunned by society(gossiping is huge in Asian culture). Also in a culture which is still very passive, men rarely approach women and you meet people mainly through introduction. so when your pool is already small because of how big your social circle/time constraints and you're limiting it even more by asking for the 3 C's, that's why they're still single.

Arranged marriages are very infrequent now in urban areas and it's more freedom of choice but people still cling strongly to traditional values of family first. So the family generally needs to approve and they will not approve of a male that isn't more accomplished than the female and in a society where they push education to the brink of insanity that people committ suicide over the pressure of studies, how can you marry off your daughter who has a masters/PhD and expect that she will easily find someone of higher social status than her?

Also, it is tradition that the parents follow the oldest son into his marriage so girls generally will not have to worry about supporting their parents. However, in today's age with the one child policy still in effect and most familys having only one child, the female would have to support the parents.
 
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AAAgent

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LiveFreeX said:
I would say a marriage of western and eastern value systems makes for a very strong future. That might just be personal bias though. ;)

Eastern women are grateful for the Western independence but they a firmly grounded in their belief systems. So marriage to a foreigner is like a breath of fresh air once in awhile. It makes for highly compatible marriages. If you are a western red pill popper then this type of woman makes sense to you. She works for the family, puts her nose to the grind and doesn't openly question your authority. You have what I like to call a 'one, two punch' to the feminist agenda. I believe the marriage of old and new is the perfect combination for a healthy future. The man 'from the new system of thought' can hold himself in check and respects a woman who holds to her tradition. One works as an individual for the family the other works as a support for the family. Both can appreciate the other and understand the other's wants and needs.

Thus I recommend more men from the West coming to the East to select brides. It will make your richer and happier in the long run.

I was in Brazil before I was in China, would only ever consider going back for the food.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/videos/preferential-treatment-and-status-for-foreigners-in-china.html
From all the Western foreign men/Eastern women marriages that i've been exposed to, it is not a good mesh of cultures as the western culture generally just eclipses and destroys the eastern culture. Exactly like what western culture did to the native american people/culture.....killed them off or bred them out. Do you see anyone who is part native american with their native american values/culture.......nope.

Unless you are born/raised into Asian culture, it will be extremely hard to mesh the cultures well as you only know what you see and there is tons more behind that. I do see well meshed east/west cultures from Singapore/HK couples and that is what i would consider a well mesh of eastern and western cultures meshing together. I have a halfie niece and a full chinese niece and they are sisters. The halfie who is the younger one speaks no chinese and barely understands and she lives in a chinese house surround by all chinese people. The dad works 1.5 hours away and during the week lives down there by himself. My halfie niece hangs out with full chinese kids of her moms friends and they speak bits and pieces of Chinese. I've dated half chinese girls as well and they all want to be close to their roots but they don't feel close at all as they look more western than eastern.

Also, Chinese culture is more passive which means the women are more passive and in western society with women becoming more empowered, i can see why the more traditional passive woman is highly sought after.
 

MatureDJ

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AAAgent said:
Women in China are demanding that any guy that wants to date them must fulfill the 3 C's: Cash, Condo, and Car ...
I've heard it's called the 3 180's: 180 m^2 (apartment size), 180 cm (height), 180 mm (length) ;)
 
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Scaramouche

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Dear AAA,
I read your posts several times and found them most enlightening....My principal Plate is Chinese.....Her first Marriage was arranged,for many years they lived with her parents.....He worked as a Doctor for a Railway construction Team only came home for two days every month...Seems there was nothing really resembling love in their relationship,it was just a convenient way to exist,but she was loyal to him,never thought of playing up...Such were the economic and social constraints then,and still not greatly changed today,that adultery was unheard of.
 

AAAgent

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You should see culture change over the next few decades/centuries as China is in hardcore mode of redefining itself. The women will change with that.

On a side note, although i couldn't find anything in China about the 3 C's online, i did find the 5 C's coming from Singapore. Another Chinese country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_C's_of_Singapore
 

1stworldview

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Chinese “Leftovers” More Than Enough For American Appetites

The authors of the original bilateral trade agreements between the Peoples Republic of China and the Unites States never saw this coming: A Chinese export so tantalizing, American men would spend thousands of dollars to acquire it. And yet it’s popularity is only now catching on. It’s known as “Sheng Nu”. Leftovers.

Specifically: Chinese “leftover” women.

Despite a surplus of over 20 million men in Chinese society, Chinese women in their late 20’s and above are finding it difficult to find a husband. This, despite being attractive, professionally employed, and eager to settle down. China’s women have abundant opportunities to find work and earn a good living. What is it, then, that prevents so many from finding their way to the alter? In fact, it’s the very culture they thrive in.

For years, the Chinese government sponsored Women’s Federation has been pushing fast-tracking females to let go of professional pursuits in exchange for life as a stay-at-home wife and mother. “If you’re still unwed by age 27,” the widely-read Federation website says, “You’ll be ‘leftover’ and unwanted.” The negative connotation of the “Sheng Nu” label is so strong, many observers say, it renders a stigma that scares away potential suitors. And Chinese men, according to the South China Morning Post, are deeply obsessed with finding a less accomplished, more submissive women to marry.

Sociologist and author Leta Hong Fincher, writing for the New York Times Opinion pages, accuses China’s government of fomenting chauvinism by sponsoring tabloid articles like “Do Leftover Women Really Deserve Our Sympathy?” “Eight Moves to Escape the Leftover Women Trap.” And then there’s the article, published on – of all days – International Womens Day, which accuses single, independent women of having poor morals:

“Many highly educated ‘leftover women” are very progressive in their thinking and enjoy going to nightclubs to search for a one-night-stand, or they become the mistress of a high official or rich man. It is only when they have lost their youth and are kicked out by the man that they decide to search for a life partner.”

Is a smear campaign, designed to demean China’s most independent-minded women into marriage, the government’s answer to China’s staggering sex-ratio imbalance? Leta Hong Fincher thinks so. “What better way to upgrade population quality than to frighten ‘high-quality’ women into marrying and having a child for the good of the nation?” The chauvinist campaigns don’t stop at marriage. Post-nuptial relationship advice is also given. “When you find out he is having an affair, you may be in a towering rage, but you must know that if you make a fuss, you are denying him ‘face’ … no man is capable of spending a lifetime being loyal to an outmoded wife who never changes… Try changing your hairstyle or your fashion.”



A Foreign Affair, a.k.a. www.loveme.com, is planning to capitalize on the sudden availability of China’s best natural resource. The Phoenix, Arizona-based international marriage agency organizes group singles excursions, called ‘romance tours,” where love-hungry American men travel abroad to satisfy their appetites for exotic wives. AFA has established offices in Shenzhen and Chonqing, with possible expansion cities in development. “The whole concept of international romance tours has been around for almost twenty years,” says CEO John Adams. “What started in Russia, Ukraine and the Philippines in the mid 1990’s, has now expanded to China, Thailand and Latin America. Thousands of American men travel abroad to meet future wives every year.” Adams says the appeal of his China tours started out a bit slow but has started to catch on in the past year. “Our last tour to Shenzhen, for example, had 30 guys traveling with us.”

Why are so many American men looking overseas for wives? And do the women rejected by their Chinese counterparts hold the qualities American men are willing to spend thousands of dollars and travel half way around the world to find? Although the success of international marriage agencies like A Foreign Affair have been 20 years in the making, more and more singles are using the technology available to them to find love. American men complain of a lack of available, attractive women over age 30 who are interested in marriage. “I’ve used several local dating sites,” says Michael, a retired college professor from Detroit, “but few of the ladies I found attractive were even remotely interested in marriage. A lot of desirable women over 40 are looking for casual relationships with younger men. I’m a little too old for clubs and bars and I’ve always been fascinated by Chinese culture, so I figured why not take a singles vacation and see what happens.”

Cities like Shanghai, popular among expatriates and tourists, are seeing record numbers of women applying to agencies in hopes of finding a foreign husband. Unlike Latin or European women, Chinese women often pay fees to submit their profile. “It’s also fair to say,” says Adams, “that Chinese women are looking for men who are somewhat educated, professional and financially stable as they are. They believe such American men will be less insecure and more supportive of their values.” The stereotypical desperate loner who travels to Asia to meet simple, unsophisticated girls need not apply. Chinese ladies bring it all and have above average expectations.

But are Chinese women marrying American men merely exchanging one harsh stigma for another? For years, tabloid media reports have accused opportunistic “mail-order-brides” of making their way to America on the backs of American men, only to then dodge their husbands for the precarious life of an illegal immigrant on the lam. There’s virtually no evidence any such trend, in fact, AFA claims most international couples go on to be very happy. How, then, will the cultural misperceptions of international marriage impact Chinese ladies who follow their husbands to a new home? John Adams points out “There are millions of Chinese-Americans and a well developed Chinese subculture in America. There will be plenty of opportunities to make friends, find work and adjust to life in America over time.” Traveling back and forth from the USA to China has never been easier, so family ties needn’t be affected either. And besides, for the fine women of China, this experience is all about the end result: a loving husband and family.”
 

MatureDJ

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When you find out he is having an affair, you may be in a towering rage, but you must know that if you make a fuss, you are denying him ‘face’ … no man is capable of spending a lifetime being loyal to an outmoded wife who never changes… Try changing your hairstyle or your fashion.
Oh my, could you imagine that bile that would erupt from the matriarchy if someone in the USA said that? :eek: :rolling:
 

Malcontent

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Didn't read the whole thread but an older Chinese woman told me never to get into a relationship with a Chinese girl. She said they are cold and calculating. Basically she bashed her own culture at least as far as romantic relationships.

A friend of mine also got destroyed by a Chinese girl. She secretly did all kinds of financial stuff in the background in preparation for divorce when he thought everything was fine.

Only 2 examples, but that's been my insight.

They just sound like regular women. Ha ha.
 

Cloudtopsun2100

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Malcontent said:
Didn't read the whole thread but an older Chinese woman told me never to get into a relationship with a Chinese girl. She said they are cold and calculating. Basically she bashed her own culture at least as far as romantic relationships.

A friend of mine also got destroyed by a Chinese girl. She secretly did all kinds of financial stuff in the background in preparation for divorce when he thought everything was fine.

Only 2 examples, but that's been my insight.

They just sound like regular women. Ha ha.
Oh yes, you cannot underestimate them, they truly can be quite cunning but then again you should never 100% trust ANY woman not cause woman are bad but because you shouldn't ever leave your castle undefended
 
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