Are less educated women intimidated by more educated men?

[MDgood]

That's the question. Now here's the story, and I don't mean to make this sound like I'm busting on the guys who weren't able to attend college for whatever reasons...

I know a woman about 24 years old. She's a nurse and more than likely she makes more money than I do. However, she never went to college. I finished college and went halfway through law school. I know her through my church, and we get along great... she's very attractive and fun to be with. We've flirted before, kino'd, eye contact, and all that other good stuff, too. We were involved together in an adult church group (along with her total hottie HB 9.75 sister, which is another story in itself).

Oftentimes during this group she would sit back and do nothing more than listen to the college educated people talk, and of these I was the one who always seemed to know the most about what was going on. A few times she half-jokingly remarked, "I never went to college... I don't know anything!" I'm not claiming I'm the smartest person in the world, but I have a reputation for being pretty intelligent.

So earlier this year I asked her to a bar, and after initially enthusiastically saying yes, she kept cancelling, and she was hesitant to return my phone calls. (However, this may have been because I was, ummm, hitting on her sister at the same time!) After two weeks I figured she wasn't interested, so I nexted her. I didn't see her for about three months. However, because we're basically friends and on good terms, I called her last week out of the blue to see how she was doing, but I was not going to ask her out.

Turns out she's been seeing a trash collector since April. This is the second guy she's dated since I've known her who has not been college educated, and who she's literally laughed about when she mentioned him. Obviously, she is not proud of the guy, like she wasn't proud of the guy before him.

I mean, if I am there and willing to be hanging out with her, and we get along great, why is she not willing to even meet up with me to hang out once? Is it possible she's intimidated and doesn't think I'd be interested in her (my last two LTRs were both valedictorians of their high school classes), and could she be afraid that I'm going to ditch her after a few dates?

By the way, she suggested we meet up next weekend to go to a cookout at her friend's place. I'm not getting too excited about it because of the previous times she's cancelled on me, but I'm keepign an open mind about it and seeing what happens.

 

[WatchMeWalk]

More than likely she just can't find common ground with highbrow people. Maybe if you talked to her more about parties, gossip, etc. . .

 

[aBAzLLnA]

i dunno really, i guess you could say shes intimidated by you cuz ur "smarter" than she is. shes prolly wont go out with you cuz shes scared she wont meet up to ur expectations. a legit excuse i guess...

if anything, i dont think women would be intimidated by more educated men, but look up to them. well, both of u have to find middle ground in the conversations.

is she always there when u talk to the more intellectual ppl?

if more or less yes then maybe she thinks ur dumbing down just for her.

~ivan

 

[Ronin I]

I think so, yes.

One thing that I've learned is that we all (men and women) like to be around people that make us feel good about ourselves.

She is probably very conscious of the fact that you are "smarter" than she is and to some degree feels inferior. This doesn't exactly make her feel good about herself.

I had a similar problem with a girl about a year ago (she was clearly self-conscious about not being good enough for me and even said so - said she didn't understand why I would want to be with her - etc.). As much as I tried to reassure her that I thought she was great, she wound up dumping me for some AFC loser that lived in a trailer and makes $20K a year. (In comparison I'm Ivy League educated and currently attend a top MBA school ).

This actually fvcked my head up pretty good. But then I realized that it was due to her low self-esteem and really had nothing to do with me.

I remember after it all happened her telling me that one of the things she liked about this chump is that he would always tell her how smart she was. Whatever.

What it really comes down to is this - would you rather be the best player on a Single A baseball team or would you rather be a role player on a Major League team.

I often hear this theory that women are ALWAYS looking to "trade-up". Well this is not necessarily so. Some people are too afraid to try and "trade-up" because of their own insecurities and perceived inadequecies.

 

[BobbDobbs]

It is actually somewhat unusual.

I guess it matters what you think -- does she seem unintelligent to you? Not everybody is going to have the same interests, so they might have trouble determining each other's mental capabilities.

But if you feel she has some native intelligence, then you will eventually demonstrate that to her by the conversations you have.

My wife has a college degree. I do not. She is smart in some ways, but as with many women, dumber than a box of rocks in other ways.

 

[Doppler4000]

You have a four-year college degree and she doesn't. That's it. It's not really all that big of a difference. It's not like you have 2 PhD's or anything like that. All the posters so far have had good points that could be important in some cases, HOWEVER- If she's basically bright and has common sense (which is obviously the case because she's a nurse) then there's no reason she couldn't get along with you and your friends. I get the feeling from your post that you could be a little too high and full of yourself beyond the point of simply being a confident guy. Remember, if she's a nurse then she's often working around docs and other people who have a heck of a lot more education than you do, and maybe they're a lot more down-to-earth than you are. Did you actually TELL her that your ex-'s were valedictorians???? It's very possible that she found your attitude much more unattractive than the fact that you just went to school longer than she did.

 

[ApocalypseCow]

Originally posted by Doppler4000
You have a four-year college degree and she doesn't. That's it. It's not really all that big of a difference.

I disagree. I think there is a big difference between the people who go away to school for 4 years and the people who go work in a factory or store right after high school.

College definitely changes your worldview. I don't think I could get in a long-term relationship with someone who hasn't gone to college. This doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. Rather, it's about common life experiences. I've gone out with a couple girls who didn't go to school, and their lack of ambition was too much for me to take.

There are exceptions, of course, but this is my general opinion on the matter.

 

[OddTech]

This is interesting. I think a nurse requires some kind of education, right? Even though it may not be a formal 4-year college degree, it is still several years (in the USA, you need around 2 years to get an R.N. ??). Hence, it's more likely MDgood is making her feel uncomfortable. I don't know all the details, but she does feel insecure by his attitude and his reputation for being a brainy guy. Then this is more of her problem.

I have both types of experience. I go to an Ivy school. But I don't say much about it. Some girls get a little excited when they find out. These are the ones who likes to "move up" or show their girlfriend what a great catch they have. Others get a little intimidated because their insecurities are telling them that they're not good enough. Hmm, even now, I don't know how to handle those.

 

[MDgood]

All very good points, guys. Thanks.

She's certainly not dumb... I don't find myself attracted to the dumb ones for anything more than playing catch and release. She's a nurse at Johns Hopkins Hospital, so you know she can't be an idiot.

It must be a self-esteem thing. Somehow I'm making her feel self-conscious, and perhaps when I nexted her a few months back that fed into it.

***

Ronin, you're Ivy League educated and you got dumped for a guy in a trailer park? Oh my God, I'm sorry for the pain and all, but you gotta admit that's sort of funny.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

I have the same opinion as OddTech.

Being in the medical field myself, becoming a registered nurse (even at a technical college level) requires at least 4 years of post high school education. Usually 2 years prereqs, 2 years RN program, then taking the national board exams. If she's a registered nurse, then, she's VERY educated. I've met many RN's and none of them would ever take a back seat to their education and say "they don't know anything".

Maybe she isn't an RN, rather, a nurse's assistant or an LPN that only did 'training' for 6-9 months. Regardless of her employment at John Hopkins, nursing is in such a high demand that I'm sure JH would hire just about anyone with any formal training.

With that aside, there is a HUGE difference with those who have attended college/univ and those who haven't. It isn't a question of intellegence, rather, a question of common ground. She sounds a bit unsure if she can compete with you intellectually. Obviously from the men she dates, she is more comfortable with a man who she may feel intellectually more superior.

But, this is an easy fix. If you want to bed her, you have to come to her level. Talk less politics and more gossip. Watch less Court TV and more E! TV. Read less novels and more tabloids.

However, is she worth it?

 

[Helter Skelter]

Md Good I own a nursing agency. Do you know if she is an RN or LPN. The RN program is very difficult if she has that, her education would be on par with a 4 year degree. If she is a nursing assistant that requires very little education and would help answer your question better.

 

[myfriendblu]

Originally posted by ApocalypseCow
I disagree. I think there is a big difference between the people who go away to school for 4 years and the people who go work in a factory or store right after high school.

College definitely changes your worldview. I don't think I could get in a long-term relationship with someone who hasn't gone to college. This doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. Rather, it's about common life experiences. I've gone out with a couple girls who didn't go to school, and their lack of ambition was too much for me to take.

There are exceptions, of course, but this is my general opinion on the matter.

Dude your 100 percent right....Alot of people that havent been to college university for an extended period of time won't understand what were talking about. I never thought much about that but since you mention it, it really is true. I don't think i could ever seriously LTR a girl that wasn't college educated either.

 

[MDgood]

Originally posted by -HPNOTIQ-
I have the same opinion as OddTech.

Being in the medical field myself, becoming a registered nurse (even at a technical college level) requires at least 4 years of post high school education. Usually 2 years prereqs, 2 years RN program, then taking the national board exams. If she's a registered nurse, then, she's VERY educated.
I've met many RN's and none of them would ever take a back seat to their education and say "they don't know anything".

Regardless of her employment at John Hopkins, nursing is in such a high demand that I'm sure JH would hire just about anyone with any formal training.

I don't know where she is in her training. Besides, nursing certfication goes state by state. She never said she "doesn't know anything" in refernce to her medical training. She said she "doesn't know anything" in reference to the things we happened to be discussing in this group we were in... history, philosophy, science, etc.

Also, for the record, JHH did not get a reputation as the best hospital in the world by hiring "just anybody". You don't find many sub-par doctors, nurses, or even medical techs there. The mere fact that she is employed there says a lot for her.

But, this is an easy fix. If you want to bed her, you have to come to her level. Talk less politics and more gossip. Watch less Court TV and more E! TV. Read less novels and more tabloids.

Sorry, I don't change who I am for anybody, dude. I recommend the same to every other guy who visits this forum. This isn't a case where I just want to nail her.

However, is she worth it?

If she weren't, why would I have bother posting this in the first place?

 

[Doppler4000]

Originally posted by MDgood
Also, for the record, JHH did not get a reputation as the best hospital in the world by hiring "just anybody". You don't find many sub-par doctors, nurses, or even medical techs there. The mere fact that she is employed there says a lot for her.

Exactly, and based on the tone of your original post that's why I still think her lack of interest likely has a lot to do with the fact that she just wasn't into you and the way you acted around her and with your friends and all that stuff. I don't think there's any reason here to assume she bolted because she truly felt inferior or to bash her by saying she has some kind of self esteem problem. If you do go to this cookout with the same attitude, I suspect it will be the last time you see her, so just be a lot more casual, etc. and maybe it will work out better this time.

 

[Ricky]

In a word, YES, depending upon the girl.

My GF claims she gets bored by my conversations when I bring up anything regarding work or learning new things.

She, like many I know has no interest in continuing education. It is a very bad situation for me and may be one of the factors leading to breakup down the road.

She also feels that I look down on her and her friends because I'm "smarter" than the rest of them.

 

[KiInCollege]

I see great efficiency in examining how education may be a factor here, but is this the most effective route, MDgood? I enjoy your posts, but the focus may be off this time (in terms of getting the girl - now, in terms of educational debate this thread is excellent).

Most girls admire a man with an education and ambition. Generally only a girl with low self-esteem would consistently trade down. With that said, here are some details you mentioned that you may be underestimating:

1. You tried to date her sister. She knows her sister is hotter than her. Her sister may have said things about you. Sparking any brain plugs, yet?

2. When she cancelled a date, are you certain she wasn't seeing anyone else?

3. Can you safely say, "my education vs. hers is the only factor?"

4. You said that your intellectual reputation precedes you. Are you modest about this image? Have you ever stroked you ego, even in a subtle way? Women read communication well and any sign of arrogance hurts the cause.

I hope you succeed; a group cookout isn't really something she would back out of. Tell us how it goes.

 

[MDgood]

Doppler4000 and KiInCollege, you both bring very good points to the table here. It's quite possible that, hey, she just is not into me, and I'm looking for excuses to say that it's her who is having the problem. You know, like I'm saying to myself, "Hey, how can a chick actually not want ME?!?!?!?" Very possible. I thank you guys for your honest assessment of the situation.

When she cancelled the date, she was seeing somebody else, but it wasn't a serious thing. She had recently just gotten out of a 4 year LTR that turned very, very bad, with the guy stalking her and all. I don't think she wanted anything serious.

That having been said, yeah, I have a reputation for being on the brainy side, but it's not something I try to show off. When I was younger I would inadvertantly piss off people, even adults, when I started talking, and wanting to be accepted socially, I learned to keep my mouth shut. I have made it a point never to interrupt or outrightly correct somebody in a conversation, and I am always the first one to say when I don't know something. But even then, I still find some people (not even the majority) feel offended. I am very self conscious about it.

Anyway, regardless of what happens we'll still see each other from time to time. We know each other fairly well, we both like each other's company, so there's no reason eithe rof us would call it off totally.

Again, thanks for the honesty, it's always appreciated

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

Originally posted by MDgood

Also, for the record, JHH did not get a reputation as the best hospital in the world by hiring "just anybody". You don't find many sub-par doctors, nurses, or even medical techs there. The mere fact that she is employed there says a lot for her.

I'm quite aware of the reputation JH has in terms of medicine. I'm also quite aware of the depressed state of employment within the nursing community.

Originally posted by MDgood
Sorry, I don't change who I am for anybody, dude. I recommend the same to every other guy who visits this forum. This isn't a case where I just want to nail her.

(However, is she worth it?)

If she weren't, why would I have bother posting this in the first place?

So what the heck are you saying you want to do? Is she worth the change or not? She's worth the post here and getting this discussion going, but, I'm sure in your mind she isn't worth changing who you are. We have that figured out.

With that said, what's left? I'm not quite sure. I've met many guys who use their education and accelerated intellegence to come off as arrogant, ****y, and 'show-offish'.

As I recall, that was the main discussion regarding this thread. I personally don't think that women are intimitated by educated men. However, arrogant know-it-all's turn just about anyone off.

Rather than just plain intellegence, I feel a woman is more attracted to an educated, well rounded man who is always willing to learn more. I guess this goes without saying.

BTW ... here's a picture of me flexing my 'show-offish' nature.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/turnstylz/SOUNDESSENTIALS/asainjection.jpg

 

[BobbDobbs]

Originally posted by myfriendblu
I don't think i could ever seriously LTR a girl that wasn't college educated either.

That's silly. There are a lot of reason people don't go to college, IQ not being the only one.

There are family factors, money factors, esteem factors, etc. There are smart girls who didn't go to college because of money or family problems and there are party girls whose rich daddy paid their way through college.

Looking at credentials is a bad way to judge a LTR mate.

 

[MDgood]

First, I apologize for being a little pissy there... I had just hiked 10 miles and my feet were in shreds, so I came off a little poorly there.

You're right, arrogance is definitely bad, but the two of us have gotten along so well that I don't have reason to suspect that I'm been a know-it-all in her presence.

I am actually confused about what I want to accomplish here. I am very interested in her sister, who I know a lot better and for a lot longer, but who has been giving me signals so mixed up that most DJs on this board would give up trying to figure her out. The catch is that making a serious grab for one sister ruins my chance of ever being able to go for the other. I'm not saying I'm trying to score with both sisters, it just one of those things where, if they weren't related, they wouldn't have a problem with my seeing the other if we were just "dating". But just like I would not ever want to date a girl my brother was seeing, the fact that they are sisters makes things totally screwy, and honestly I do not as of yet know what I want.