Are Fairy Tales and Romance part of the Feminine Agenda?

[STR8UP]

General consensus is that women push agendas that are in their own best interest. Such as the shaming tactics used that "allow" then to party when they are young and still catch a somewhat desirable man as she approaches (or passes) her use-by date.

But what about the whole marriage/love/happily ever after/fantasy bullsh!t?

It would seem to me that this is not the SAME as a feminine agenda, however, when you look at it from the perspective that it mainly benefits women to have men believe all of that crap, it looks more and more like yet another way that women pull the wool over mens eyes so that they can try to have their cake and eat it too.

Think about it for a second. Women talk all of this garbage about "soulmates" and whatnot, but who are REALLY the hopeless romantics? I think it is MEN who are the deluded ones. Women SAY they want candlelit dinners and walks on the beach, but is that what they really want? Maybe in moderation, but I think it is much more about the warm fuzzies a woman gets when she THINKS about such things, than when she experiences them. then the man goeas out and tries to DO those things for her and shoots himself in the foot in the process.

Sounding more and more like yet another feminine agenda?

Who is usually the one who initiates a breakup or divorce? The WOMAN. You would think that the power of happily ever after would create a gravitational pull that would be hard to break away from, no?

I would go almost so far as to propose that this is another case where women simply believe their own bullsh!t, which makes it easy for them to sell it.

It's quite a boon for women to sell men on the fact that true love exists, but to reserve the right to promptly exit a situation that no longer suits them!

So what do you think? Is all of this crap about fairy tales and romance simply another way that women control and manipulate men for their own gain? Or does it go deeper?

 

[TheHumanist]

I caught this thread early. I got a feeling this is going to be a thread with many people agreeing with you with agreement that women are pushing the agenda or something on that line. I'm going to write my own thoughts before too many write here (and hopefully this post won't get deleted until some critical thought is made on my thoughts).

What I thought about this a long ago, one idea came is that the majority of romanticism is actually nostalgia. It is written in memory as romantic rather than during the moment itself. The memory itself could be a memory of f***ing in the back of the car drunk after a college party (ok, a little extreme), but can be look back like with nostalgia rather than during the moment itself.

Real romanticism itself (though not the real real one of 18th century arts and literary movement), it doesn't matter that you gave up a flower picked in front of her from the ground or a 10 dozen roses delievered by angels in the morning, it is when they tell others or thinking back in memory that it would be viewed as romantic or not. No one have to do anything out of the way to make one moment, it just have to looked back as such.

Your wording that romanticism as an agenda, a tactic, of something women use to control and manipulate men, I have to disagree. They believe it as much as men do. The fact that women initiate divorce more doesn't mean they aren't romantics, it just means such a belief won't keep them around. There are many more plausible reasons women divorce more than men then men believing in romanticism, like getting screwed over easier in a divorce.

Romanticism is not just men getting they eyes covered allowing women to have and eat their cake. Women believe it as well, I recalled past writings saying how many marriages enter with the sunshine patriot thinking. They believe just as much of the prince charming ideal swooping away to an eternity of joy in some castle. They enter relationships and marriages imaging happily ever after as well, only to find things are the same as before, quite a let down, and I say they believe as much. The funny thing in that fantasy, the princess is suppose to be a kind and compassionate angel as much as the the prince a good gentlemen who have masculanity that many afcs don't, how many of those women who want that prince try to act like that princess, how many princes truly act like the prince rather than just an afc who want to give flowers.

The real issue is that it is just an unrealistic belief rather than a manipulation of men, though I could agree that the myth itself does leads to men falling and allowing women to eat the cake, but I contend that many women believe it as much and men can take advantage of it too. It is more of a belief and those taking advantage of its existance then a feminine agenda conciously or unconciously formed to manipulate men.

 

[ketostix]

I know we've touched on this before, but this is a brillant and true realization IME. It is a feminine agenda to manipulate men into being providers and subserviant to women. Women are naturals at being propagandist and manipulating men into giving women power and resources.

When you say women may like the romantic "story" in moderation they sell to men, that is true. This is because they know they have a man they can get security and support from or at least that's what it represents. But the fundamental thing is they're not really as attracted to the romance or the man per se as they are the security and support it represents. Now that they've "conquered" one man romantically it's easy to move on to the next.

Women don't treat sex and romantic love like men do or how they'd like you to believe. For women, it's always about the opportunities and things he can bring her and not about the person. Where as for men, it is more about the woman as a person.

 

[thisishowitis]

General consensus is that women push agendas that are in their own best interest. Such as the shaming tactics used that "allow" then to party when they are young and still catch a somewhat desirable man as she approaches (or passes) her use-by date.

But what about the whole marriage/love/happily ever after/fantasy bullsh!t?

It would seem to me that this is not the SAME as a feminine agenda, however, when you look at it from the perspective that it mainly benefits women to have men believe all of that crap, it looks more and more like yet another way that women pull the wool over mens eyes so that they can try to have their cake and eat it too.

Think about it for a second. Women talk all of this garbage about "soulmates" and whatnot, but who are REALLY the hopeless romantics? I think it is MEN who are the deluded ones. Women SAY they want candlelit dinners and walks on the beach, but is that what they really want? Maybe in moderation, but I think it is much more about the warm fuzzies a woman gets when she THINKS about such things, than when she experiences them. then the man goeas out and tries to DO those things for her and shoots himself in the foot in the process.

Sounding more and more like yet another feminine agenda?

Who is usually the one who initiates a breakup or divorce? The WOMAN. You would think that the power of happily ever after would create a gravitational pull that would be hard to break away from, no?

I would go almost so far as to propose that this is another case where women simply believe their own bullsh!t, which makes it easy for them to sell it.

It's quite a boon for women to sell men on the fact that true love exists, but to reserve the right to promptly exit a situation that no longer suits them!

So what do you think? Is all of this crap about fairy tales and romance simply another way that women control and manipulate men for their own gain? Or does it go deeper?

I think people are searching for happiness and they might get the idea that marriage or romance will automatically make them happy.

I mean, people will do anything to be happy.

They'll join gangs. They'll try to become a rap-star. They'll get married to a person they don't give a **** about. They'll try to prove themself to everyone else. They'll go to church 5 days a week. They'll get plastic surgery. They'll do drugs. They'll wear flashy clothes. They'll try to act like somebody else. They'll fight MMA and get their nose broken 11 times.



I don't think fairy tales and romance are any part of an agenda. I think that people fantasize about what they think will make them happy, even if it won't. Nothing external can make you happy. Only belief in yourself, and belief in others, and belief in life can make you happy. And then, if you happen to fall in love and get married, you will actually be happy.

And really, most people are lost and confused. They are not happy and they are wondering why the **** they are not happy. They spend all day trying to think of that magical thing that will make everything okay.

I mean, I used to have zero self-esteem. I was full of hatred because I hated myself. I hated fat people. I hated ghetto black people. I hated big-boobed bimbos. I hated rich people. But the truth is, these are all people just trying to make it through their damn lives, and my judgementalness was only hurting myself.

I think that when a person breaks through the walls that they built up in their own mind, then they are truly free.

And you have to realize, most everyone else, goes through the same bull**** in their mind as well.

 

[STR8UP]

Before the happy brigade comes in here and accuses me of woman bashing, let me state for the record that I'm not bashing anyone.

I just feel that the raw truth should be exposed, even the unpleasant stuff.

We all have to hide behind some sort of a curtain to get through life (you have to have hope) but the truth of the matter is there are very few men who will ever find one woman who will be satisfied with them for a very long period of time.

The thought of how women rope a man into a relationship, filling HIM with hopes and dreams of what the future holds, filling him with HER emotion, just to turn around and shut her own emotions down at the drop of a hat doesn't sit well with me.

I think the whole love myth is a little different than other things women perpetuate for their own benefit, however I do believe that the end result is the same; leading a man to believe that she will be devoted to him forever just to be the one who usually cuts it off when she isn't "feeling it" is manipulative and self serving. And the worst part about it is, this is often in opposition to a man's outlook on a relationship at any given time. It is often when the man cares for a woman the most (and as a result becomes comfortable and complacent) that she is most likely to become disinterested and leave him.

I know men do PLENTY of things to lead a woman on, but we are speaking of one specific aspect of women here, not men.

I think this is an avenue that hasn't been fully explored.

 

[TheHumanist]

I know men do PLENTY of things to lead a woman on, but we are speaking of one specific aspect of women here, not men.

I think this is an avenue that hasn't been fully explored.

Then however, I may ask. What is the raw truth? The raw truth doesn't always have to be as dark as you put it, we have to explore it, but it is not complete. If you want the complete truth, the aspect of women is connected to all the other aspects of women and men. While it is important to look at the darkest aspects, to look at the whole truth, we have to look at the other aspects too and there's good too. Not every women is that extreme in calculation, there's plenty buying the same romantic thinking of love the person and forget everything else too.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I just feel that the raw truth should be exposed, even the unpleasant stuff.

Your interpretation of events, real or imagined is not truth. It is only your opinion. Once you label something as truth the mind tends to seek evidence for it, making it a self fulfilling prophecy. Watch your language.

But the truth of the matter is there are very few men who will ever find one woman who will be satisfied with them for a very long period of time.

actual facts= a large percentage of relationships fail, AND most people have more than one relationship in their life.

opinion1: (yours above)

opinion 2: very few men put in the effort to please one woman for a very long period of time, ensuring said woman will reciprocate.

opinion 3: very few men realize that as people grow older, their values change and their needs change.

opinion 4: very few men realize that it may take just as much effort to keep a woman as it does to attract her.

opinion 5: many men feel that a woman is another mommy, and it is her job to take care of the mans many selfish whims.

opinion 6: a man can't satisify a woman unless he can properly elicit her actual criteria for satisfaction.

The thought of how women rope a man into a relationship, filling HIM with hopes and dreams of what the future holds, filling him with HER emotion, just to turn around and shut her own emotions down at the drop of a hat doesn't sit well with me.

usually when I have a thought that doesn't sit well, I try to think of something else, like for example, the things I plan to accomlish in my life, the things I've enjoyed doing in the recent past, things I've done that I'm grateful for, etc etc, but that's just me. Please continue to think what you'd like, despite your reactions to said thoughts.

I think the whole love myth is a little different than other things women perpetuate for their own benefit

Maybe, the love "myth" is really based on a misguided and desperate attempt to re create a wonderful blissful fleeting feeling whose origin is unknown.

Can you honestly blame ANYONE for doing whateve they know how to do, using whatever tools are in their toolbox, for chasing that dragon?

Now if you could figure out how to CREATE that feeling in a woman, consciusly, boy howdy, you'd be king of the sandbox.

 

[STR8UP]

If either sex in life comes close to acting on their beliefs about love, it appears men are the closer.

Exactly. And that is the irony of it.

We all grew up influenced by society's beliefs on love, but as we all know it is mainly a woman's realm. So if this is the case, why is it that women are so often the ones running away from it?

They say men are commitment phobic? Women are relationship phobic. Or more accurately, they want it but once they get it they no longer want it. Not with YOU anyway. Things are great for awhile, then it's off to chase the next emotional high.

Why do you think it fukks a woman up so bad when they have feelings for you and you dump them? Hell hath no fury....

But once their attraction dimmer switch is turned below half, they will ACTIVELY pursue other options. Once they have SECURED another option, that switch goes from being a dimmer to an on-off. All they ned is that final assurance that the next branch is stable, and BAM! You're OFF in her mind.

Then she's off to swear all of the same "till death do us part" stuff to the next guy, until the cycle repeats itself.

But going back to the agenda thing. I think you guys are onto something when you say that it might be a manifestation of childhood fantasies, or at least the fantasies we grew up believing.

I will admit that it's a good to feel like a protector and a provider, like I am fulfilling my role as a man. And I know women get gratification from assuming their natural role as well. So why are they so often the ones to pull the plug?

And blame doesn't matter. Lets assume that 50% of the time the man is more to blame for the downfall of the relationship, and 50% of the time it's the woman. Realistically we know that it's often a cse of both people being to blame, or simply a case of incompatibility, but for arguments sake lets say its 50/50. So then why is it that women are usually the ones to end relationships?

You could say that it has to do with the fact that women have more to gain from divorce, but that doesn't account for non-married couples breaking up. I would guess that it is still the woman's choice the majority of the time, and often when it ISN'T the woman who actually initiates the breakup, it's the woman who did something to precipitate it, such as cheating. The man usually has so much of himself invested that he clings to the hope that things might "work out" when the woman is already halfway out the door.

It's just hard for me to fathom that women can be so dead set on this romantic ideal, yet it seems to be the man that usually tries to stick it out till the bitter end.

 

[Poonani Maker]

All I know is, Me as a viable thoroughbred bachelor, am skittish of knowing the financial Drain marrying a woman might bring. They ARE expensive products to please. I'm currently content SAVING money that I don't really NEED to use. I know that marrying a broad will all but forfeit that money. Living is dying. I'll continue to die to my living unless there's a woman so unbelievable and willing to do everything I say i.e. die.

 

[realsmoothie]

Marriage is NOT a "feminine agenda". It began as a way for early societies to bargain with each other, essentially trading women to establish relations.

Marriage for the longest time amounted to a man legally OWNING a woman. It actually existed this way in Canada right up until the early 1970's when progressive movements of the Age of Aquarius had it knocked down.

No question women in general want to get married. But to say it's because of some kind of "feminine agenda" is really pushing things, especially since the people pushing marriage are generally fundamentalist relgious groups that have women's agendas at the very bottom of their interest.

Ours being a capitalist society that has largely marginalized religion, there had to be other ways found to make marriage a socially desired thing. So, over the late 40's through the 60's, marriage, family and the house-with-a-white-picket-fence became normalized and promoted as economically and socially the best way to live.

Marriage isn't something concocted by women to domesticate men. It was originally created by men to facilitate male public life (and control women at the same time), and over time has become ingrained in the way we see living in society the best way.

So, all that pseudo-academic stuff aside, what I'm basically saying is that if there's someone to blame for marriage being such an important part of women's minds, it's our male ancestors. Women are taught from an early age that success in the home is the most important thing in life, so at the back of their mind (no matter how progressively they were raised) their self-worth is closely linked to just how well they can marry.

I'm not against marriage. I think it works great for some people, and probably makes our society run a little more smoothly (for taking care of kids, particularly). But all in all it's something that deserves a lot more criticial thinking than society overall gives it. That critical thinking is coming from both sides... from men who are tired of being shoehorned into long term relationships that rob them of freedom and opportunity, and from women who see it as a way in which women have been controlled by men for several thousand years.

We should band together with the real feminists!

 

[Luveno]

I do not really think there is a "feminine agenda". It is not like a cabal of powerful sexy women come together to discuss the most recent developments of male mind control.

What does exist is advertising and marketing. Since women have made inroads in the professional workplace(which is fine), advertisers see that they have a new money market on their hands. This is because:

1. women are making their own money

2. women are far more demanding in their wants(since they can succeed in the workplace like men do), and will command the use of her husband's paycheck for her own desires.

Thus, the current status quo is to empower women so that they spend more and thus make the sales companies richer. It's brilliant, really.

 

[ketostix]

It's just hard for me to fathom that women can be so dead set on this romantic ideal, yet it seems to be the man that usually tries to stick it out till the bitter end.

I think you've nailed to a T female's nature with romantic relationships. I think the reason for this female anarchy behavior is because women have too many options nowadays even for their own good. Women have too much financial leverage of their own, leverage in divorce and there's just no standards or consequences placed on women. Women need to be dependant on a man to remain attracted and loyal. Women can't be dependant and look up to a man when society is making them "equals" (more accurately equivalents). Society can take away men's status as a provider (not to be confused with a provisioner) but that doesn't change women's natural need to be dependant on a provider to remain attracted and loyal.

Think about it, when there's no standards and consequences it's human nature to go hog wild and even self destructive. Look to other cultures where women have no power and men have all the power and compare the behavior of women and men. All the standards and consequences are placed on men and little to none are placed on women.

 

[scottfall]

I dont think the fairytail life is something the media perpetuates to appease women, they do it to appease their greedy little hands. The idea of what a man "should be" has been used to con AFCs.

 

[slaog]

I don't agree.

The media are promoting being single. Sex and the city culture is what it's about these days and just having sex often with different people is considered normal. Far from the fairytales and romance of the past.

Before feminism there was real romance when men acted like real men and women like women but feminism is all about making women into men. Thats my opinion of it.

Theres alot more angry women about these days and both men and women have lower standards for themselves and others.

 

[STR8UP]

I think you've nailed to a T female's nature with romantic relationships. I think the reason for this female anarchy behavior is because women have too many options nowadays even for their own good. Women have too much financial leverage of their own, leverage in divorce and there's just no standards or consequences placed on women. Women need to be dependant on a man to remain attracted and loyal. Women can't be dependant and look up to a man when society is making them "equals" (more accurately equivalents). Society can take away men's status as a provider (not to be confused with a provisioner) but that doesn't change women's natural need to be dependant on a provider to remain attracted and loyal.

Think about it, when there's no standards and consequences it's human nature to go hog wild and even self destructive. Look to other cultures where women have no power and men have all the power and compare the behavior of women and men. All the standards and consequences are placed on men and little to none are placed on women.

This is golden.

It all goes back to the misguided use of feminism and the imbalance it has created which has given women "power" which upsets the natural order of things, creating a situation where women are constantly chasing their tails.

It's almost as if they CAN'T be satisfied, since they know their options. The problem is, even though they have many options they are much less satisfied, since feminized society tells them one thing, but their biology tells them something different. And biology always wins, thus, women LOSE.

I just thought about something.

This is why in today's world, there is unprecedented opportunities for the man who has a lot of money, power, and status.

I suppose men who are on top in the past always reaped the benefits of such, but it seems like in today's world that's what it really takes to secure long term, viable options.

Hell, a good friend of mine has a hot g/f of three years, and an EX g/f roommate who he also fukks. Just so happens he lives in a big house with a pool on a lake with a $$$$$ ski boat, an M3 and a crotch rocket in the garage. He also happens to be highly social and thus very desirable to women.

Do you think he would be able to pull off that kind of arrangement if he were a socially awkward janitor living in a one bedroom apartment on the wrong side of town? I think not.

 

[mrRuckus]

How is this any different than last man standing's "all women are hors!!!!!!!?"

 

[jophil28]

This is golden.

It all goes back to the misguided use of feminism and the imbalance it has created which has given women "power" which upsets the natural order of things, creating a situation where women are constantly chasing their tails.

Don't forget to factor in their insatiable need to be unsatisfied and their compulsive attempts to portray themselves as innocent victims.

What are the chances of forming an adult functional relationship with a woman who is invested in these beliefs?

 

[edger]

But once their attraction dimmer switch is turned below half, they will ACTIVELY pursue other options. Once they have SECURED another option, that switch goes from being a dimmer to an on-off. All they ned is that final assurance that the next branch is stable, and BAM! You're OFF in her mind.

See, that didn't happen in my case with my ex..there was no other branch for her to swing to before she broke up with me. That I'm 100% positive of. I think most women, once they lose attraction for you, they'll leave you regardless of whether they have another option or not.

 

[Ballie]

I was married once - but that was about 25 years ago when it was the done thing and it was very good in the beginning and I have my two kids - so it was worth it.

My single friends call me Rip van winkel as I had been asleep for 20 years and things have changed radically now. Today's women are very demanding and they do believe in this fairy tale that men are the providers and have to give you stuff to prove their love. If they don't, then bye bye, take half your cash and the kids.

I will never marry the modern western woman - they expect too much. My daughter of 16 is totally into this fairy tale. She does modelling, wins beauty shows and her whole purpose is to find a prince that will provide for her.

The whole feminist word buys into this charade - so do businesses as marriage and divorce is a huge money generating machine

 

[potato]

...It is a feminine agenda to manipulate men into being providers and subserviant to women. Women are naturals at being propagandist and manipulating men into giving women power and resources. ...Women don't treat sex and romantic love like men do or how they'd like you to believe. For women, it's always about the opportunities and things he can bring her and not about the person. Where as for men, it is more about the woman as a person.

Boy, you and STR8UP really crack me up.

Have either of you really had a real relationship with a woman? I mean really?

It must be amazing that all women have this amazing ability to manipulate, use, and abuse men on a whim. Amazing how us men are little more than toys in the hands of women, especially those devious feminists. Ever hear of the term sour grapes?

Quite regularly I am romantic, even to the point of acting out faery tales. It takes creativity and a playful attitude towards life. In it all I entertain myself and the women in my life. Women don’t use it to manipulate me, not in the least. If anything it is I doing the manipulating. It is I who choose to be romantic, or not, and it is I who choose which women to be romantic with. It is all in the spirit of enjoyment of each other.