Anyone find direct game less effective?

[illstep]

I know that the community is, and always will be massively divided over the direct vs indirect thing.

I personally wonder if the real reason for the disagreement is maybe because it is effected by things such as your location, your looks, how old the girl you're hitting on is, the culture etc etc

I know that RSD tend to advocate direct game in the day and indirect at night

Personally, i've found that direct game really doesn't seem to work at all for me as a UK guy who isn't blessed in the looks department, and who is hitting on hot girls in bars who are like 18-21, and are a bit younger than me

I just seem to get a reaction that the girls don't like this direct approach. Can't put my finger on it, but I wonder if it's in part due too a kind of lack of subtlety that girls like? Or that maybe they feel that reacting positively might lead you on too much or trigger their Anti slut defense? Or maybe they hear it all the time and it's boring? Or maybe it's just too forward for us Brits?

I honestly don't know. I experiment all the time and made tonnes of direct approaches last night and they all followed a similar pattern where I felt like the girls just didn't like the direct approach

The only exception seems to be if I get a strong IOI first. In them scenarios, i'd actually say direct game is superior.

I'm curious if anyone else finds direct game gets themm worse reactions in general, though.

 

[Medina]

I'm from UK

I don't think about direct or indirect

For me I am fun and social with everyone

You can gauge interest levels and escalate at your discretion

Good social skills with low investment seems to work

Calm and funny masculine guy.. but not in a rush to bed her

I highly doubt Tylers method would work in the UK

Even though I love him

Girls are far too "social circle" orientated and feminist here

But if you can get her friends to like you as well, that's a life saver

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Slightly indirect works better imho. You should be able to communicate it without directly saying it.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Direct game and carpet bombing approaches are what made 5s think they are 8s and act accordingly in the last 10 years, not even social networks alone could have made it.

 

[zekko]

Personally, i've found that direct game really doesn't seem to work at all for me as a UK guy who isn't blessed in the looks department, and who is hitting on hot girls in bars who are like 18-21, and are a bit younger than me

I think you're spot on that it depends on the person's situation. What you're saying makes sense. If you can't win them over immediately with your looks, it stands to reason that an indirect approach will at least give you some time to talk to them, possibly charm them, or "run some game" on them. A lot of guys do better when they get a chance to display their personality a bit.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I think you're spot on that it depends on the person's situation. What you're saying makes sense. If you can't win them over immediately with your looks, it stands to reason that an indirect approach will at least give you some time to talk to them, possibly charm them, or "run some game" on them. A lot of guys do better when they get a chance to display their personality a bit.

Looks dont beat status. Unless its the male strip club. And you need game to hook em and reel them in.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I have experienced this. Back in my fvkboy days, I always had women asking me "why are you here in this club? Shouldn't you already have a GF or a bunch of GF's? My looks was incongruent with me being at the sexual meat market. Women expect fvckboys and tools to be there, not acutal handsome guys with abundance. I never understood this until I finally made it out of the night clubs and saw a bunch of 8's and 9's chasing after my validation.

They actually do not want me to lower my status and chase. It ruins the game for them. They want the challenge of having to seduce me.

That's why now even when I go to the clubs, I assume status and qualify women off the a$$. I make them jump through hoops, buy me drinks, etc. This is actually what they want. They want to serve you. So let them.

I was saying unless your a male stripper in the male strip club.

 

[Mike32ct]

I've never tried direct game. I never found it necessary. Women aren't stupid. They know if you are attracted. I view indirect as the default setting.

Plus, I'm not good at complimenting people.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

I'm curious if anyone else finds direct game gets themm worse reactions in general, though.

Step mate, i 100% concur. Indirect > direct!

The UK much like western society is indoctrinated by feminism. It promotes slut walks and cratered SMV. Its cyclical. A generation of women who have been progammed to be combative and victimhood. Direct gives fuel to their cause when its NOT WARRANTED.

Outlier being IOIs, choosing signals, double take, and eye ****in. Not the norm. Its high risk even still and women are gifted everything do, why go direct.

Anybody else arguing otherwise is foolish. In terms of the culture, the false accusations, the promo for destroying a man's career and rep without proof, among other things is just reasons to detour.

I don't suggest men refrain from taking a shot. I highly recommend it. If anything at all but calibrate. Furthermore, theirs varying degrees of direct and indirect. You can do both. Hell, I'd argue my indirect is more direct than 99% of guys direct approach lulz. Its seeded the pull. Its man to woman. You can play with a combo.

The field is the best way to learn.

 

[Trump]

I thought this site was all about DIRECT game.

Isn’t this the site that promotes 1st date sex? Isn’t this the site that promotes LEADERSHIP, SUBMISSION, NO CONFUSION, STRONG MASCULINE MEN, GUYS WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT WITH WOMEN?

But when it comes to game, then it’s subtle, indirect, take it easy, smooth, player, charming type
approach?

I guess the type of advice sosuave gives regarding women depends on the day of the week.

 

[zekko]

I guess the type of advice sosuave gives regarding women depends on the day of the week.

I've noticed much of the advice here is cyclical. Different approaches seem to go in and out of style in the PUA world. Right now, guys are concerned about women being over-validated, so naturally they will favor indirect game, or actually letting the female initiate.

 

[Glassguy]

If you are attracting women (physical appearance, social skills, confidence, social status) then why do you need direct game if they are coming to you?

Low(er) value men need direct game. Higher value men dont.

Now I will 100% be direct in what I want in communication with women, but I dont think I use direct game that often.

Coming across too direct kills the mystery imo. Dont use it if you dont have too.

If you have to use direct game then you should be focusing on more self improvement to attract more women to begin with.

 

[zekko]

If you are attracting women (physical appearance, social skills, confidence, social status) then why do you need direct game if they are coming to you?

Low(er) value men need direct game. Higher value men dont

This seems to be the current state of the forum. Be high value, so that women approach you, women initiate with you, women ask for your number, women ask you out, women take you home to bang, etc. Men no longer do any of those things, men should just sit back and look high value. Men are fed up and now they demand to be wooed. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[In2theGame]

I believe in Direct and Ultra Direct.

My approaches were always laser focused and when I spotted a girl I thought was cute/sexy/hot/beautiful... I went over and told her exactly that. If she responds positively then it proceeds, if she responds negatively (rarely happened) then I'd always say "Ok, Nice meeting you" and I moved on to another girl.

Women are master time wasters when it comes to the dating scene. The more indirect you are the more room it leaves for her to play games and invite her to be more vague and wishy-washy with her behavior towards you. I cannot tell you how many Women have told me how much they loved my directness towards them in my initial interaction with them and throughout our FWB/Dating time span. They knew I was a -cut through the bullsh*t- type of guy.

Let Women know what you really want from them and it will save you time and bullsh*t, This is just my experience. Ultra direct is something I used when I was on a night out and would approach Women and tell them how much I loved their ass or tits or flat out invite them to hook up that night. You'd be surprised how positive the responses were. Yes it matters in how it is said but ultimately, it worked.

The only book I have ever read on this exact subject is a book called "The Possibility of Sex: How naive and lustful Men are manipulated by Women regularly" by author Alan Roger Currie. (Had the pleasure of speaking with him in late 2017) What he explained is that Women or what he calls "Manipulative Time Wasters" are those types who will neither reject you nor reciprocate your advances. So where does this leave you? It leaves you in limbo and wondering "is she down to meetup/hookup? or is she just wasting my time?" Being direct puts them in a position of either being down to hookup with you or not. I'm not talking about being aggressive and giving ultimatums, Far from it, but what i am saying is that it gives the impression that you are not trying to just bullsh*t around and you two are either going to fvck or not. if not, you're gone.

On this same subject, I have had many Women themselves tell me that this is what they do. Right from the horses mouth. They stay vague with multiple guys they are texting, snap chatting, DMing, etc. and they keep guys around for nothing more than attention and validation. Why do you think some Women text "Hey" and you think to yourself "Hmm." She's into me because she initiated the text when in reality after her initial "Hey" she replies with light comments and "LOL's" making it seem like you are gaining traction in your ultimate goal which is to bang her however.... close but no cigar. She stops texting, Texts you a day later or says she's not sure when she can meet up" <~~ Very Vague. All this is your fault though because of your lack of directness in telling her what you want, when you want it and how you want it. You can't out perform Women when it comes to "orbiting", They master the art of orbiting and can keep it up for weeks, months and in some insane cases, years. Again, Women themselves have admitted to me that this is what they do and I have been in groups of Women where I was the only guy and this is what they discuss a high percentage of the time. Guy A, Guy B, Guy C, Guy D ...etc.

After my success with a ton of Women, My advice overall about this is, when you're going out, Always smell good, look good and feel good. When you step into the bar/lounge/party or whatever... You see the girl that catches your attention... Go over to her... Excuse yourself in and simply tell her what you think about her. You think she's hot? Tell her exactly that. Think shes sexy? Tell her exactly that. Etc. if she rejects you.... You'll take an ego hit now and again but ultimately you are looking for a mutual attraction, not Women who just give you her number and never replies or replies one time and shes gone. The main issue with us Men is that no one wants to get rejected and believe me modern Women's attitudes makes it difficult to deal with. I've seen it all being from NYC, some Women truly believe they are Royalty Queens when in reality they are just your average chick. As many times I have been called hot as fvck, sexy, gorgeous, very handsome... I still had my fair share of rejections and what i did was just move on to the Women who did have a mutual attraction towards me. I have been rejected more by 6's and 7's than 8's or 9's and that played with my head from time to time but you just have to brush it off your shoulders. Women are not these innocent wholesome beings that they try to portray on the outside, they are just like us in terms of wanting sex and lots of it. I will say confidently that Women desire sex more than Men and they are much more kinkier than we are. Think about this when you are interacting with them, they absolutely love sex.

Ultimately, Go direct because you have nothing to lose, no time for games or no time to waste.

 

[Spaz]

This seems to be the current state of the forum. Be high value, so that women approach you, women initiate with you, women ask for your number, women ask you out, women take you home to bang, etc. Men no longer do any of those things, men should just sit back and look high value. Men are fed up and now they demand to be wooed. Am I reading this correctly?

Men are not fed up and now wants to be wooed.

It's just men are being stupid enough to be led into doing the numbers game and all those peacock'ing, that's their 'game'.

But that 'game' has always been the domain of the feminine.

Sure there's an element of a 'chase' but it must 1st start off by women, with her 'game' or manipulation of events to get men to notice her, value her, etc.

That's when a man (provided he's attracted) gives an illusion of a chase, it excites her, a challenge which the feminine relishes, she is then finally able to use or bring to fore her femininity (manipulation) to make the man dance to her tune.

If its too easy for her then there's not much of a challenge would there?

The harder the catch the more valuable it is for the feminine.

In the game of seduction or love, women are the predators, remember that.

 

[zekko]

Sure there's an element of a 'chase' but it must 1st start off by women, with her 'game' or manipulation of events to get men to notice her, value her, etc.

I'm not asking about frame here, I'm interested in the actual chain of events. Because there seems to be a sea change here lately in what I'm reading. Trump has noticed it too. I seem to be reading more guys saying don't approach, show up, be high value, and the girls will chase you. Corey Wayne endorses a similar approach.

This idea isn't new exactly, but it seems to be becoming the predominant view here. With OLD, maybe guys aren't picking up girls anymore, it sounds like they are wanting to be picked up. A combination of more aggressive women and men not wanting to validate them anymore?

You say it starts with the woman manipulating. You mean like dressing to look good and such? If a woman makes eye contact, does that mean she is chasing you? Or are guys literally sitting back waiting for the girls to pick them up? Because that's what a lot of posts sound like.

Mind you, my current girlfriend initiated our getting together, she was the one interested in me. I find relationships work best whem the girl is high interest. So maybe that idea is taking over the seduction community now.

 

[Spaz]

I'm not asking about frame here, I'm interested in the actual chain of events. Because there seems to be a sea change here lately in what I'm reading. Trump has noticed it too. I seem to be reading more guys saying don't approach, show up, be high value, and the girls will chase you. Corey Wayne endorses a similar approach.

This idea isn't new exactly, but it seems to be becoming the predominant view here. With OLD, maybe guys aren't picking up girls anymore, it sounds like they are wanting to be picked up. A combination of more aggressive women and men not wanting to validate them anymore?

You say it starts with the woman manipulating. You mean like dressing to look good and such? If a woman makes eye contact, does that mean she is chasing you? Or are guys literally sitting back waiting for the girls to pick them up? Because that's what a lot of posts sound like.

Mind you, my current girlfriend initiated our getting together, she was the one interested in me. I find relationships work best whem the girl is high interest. So maybe that idea is taking over the seduction community now.

The art of seduction has never been the domain of the masculine, its always was, has and will be the domain of the feminine.

It's a cat and mouse game.

The female being the cat.

The mouse will go about his business whilst the cat will want to 'catch' him within her paws to play.

Now if the mouse is readily available and approaches the cat, she might just be bored for lack of mouse and plays a little but will dismissed him outright when a more challenging mouse appears, or the cat totally ignores it. Either way it's not a good idea since it's not natural to her and this is what many in Sosuave are actually doing, thinking they are master seducers, how wrong they are and how naive to show their lack of expertise or experience.

Hence the reason why women talk to each other that they got a good 'catch' or her husband/boyfriend was a damn good catch.

They are the cats.

But don't take my word for it, I challenge everyone here to go ask ur girlfriend or any women you know in real life if this is how seduction in real life should be.

Come back and report ur findings.

Then tell me I'm wrong.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Ultimately, Go direct because you have nothing to lose, no time for games or no time to waste.

Mode 1 allan Roger Cury. Flash game.

I highly disagree with "rarely happens." Women on some nights got resting ***** face. There's a London bar. After Chelsea plays, women show up, and you can spot the type. They are their dolled up but are ****s soaking up attention + their to get rejections flyered around.

I saw hotter girls and i paraded them in front of the ****s with the resting ***** face. I stole a fat girls vovo zella and i got the hot girls funneling beer from it. One puked on the ****s table.

I was then kicked out with the drunkards.

If you are attracting women (physical appearance, social skills, confidence, social status) then why do you need direct game if they are coming to you?

Low(er) value men need direct game. Higher value men dont.

Now I will 100% be direct in what I want in communication with women, but I dont think I use direct game that often.

Coming across too direct kills the mystery imo. Dont use it if you dont have too.

If you have to use direct game then you should be focusing on more self improvement to attract more women to begin with.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Direct game is directed at the most promiscuous women. It's actually men lowering their standards to the lowest quality women.... even if these women happen to be a '10' in the looks department.

Men are also leaders in the wider sense, so when this becomes normalized in the next generation, along the lines of say RSD, it's ruinous of the culture. Everything gets lowered to the lowest common denominator... the urge to have sex.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

This seems to be the current state of the forum. Be high value, so that women approach you, women initiate with you, women ask for your number, women ask you out, women take you home to bang, etc. Men no longer do any of those things, men should just sit back and look high value. Men are fed up and now they demand to be wooed. Am I reading this correctly?

I think an element of the MGTOW subculture is exerting its influence without the extremities of it - men should be centered and grounded within themselves, and women should be a peripheral concern... as opposed to an ultimate concern.