Anyone else feel that certain advice given by PUAs is incongruent with your personality?

[Oatmeal31]

I watch videos from pickup artists from time to time to see if their advice could improve my game. There's always room for improvement, which is why I'm even here in the first place. But I sometimes feel the advice given there is something that is very forced.

"Texting guides" to text a girl a certain way. It comes across as a script that was molded by someone else and very fake. I tried texting their way and got ghosted lol. I have more success just setting up a date instead of trying to game more through text. If I did that **** in person, why should I continue gaming through text

Or how about the guys that tell you to persist when she doesn't respond after a couple texts. I have too much pride for that. I can't see myself continuing to text a girl if she doesn't respond back. These guys would say I'm missing out on a lotta shots and it wouldn't hurt to persist! But I've done that in the past and it feels degrading. Hey, I might be missing out but I still have my self-respect intact!

And the advice that you should be talking to people left and right when you first enter a bar or venue. What if I don't feel like talking to some dudes I would have nothing in common with? Have a conversation with the bouncer? I'm not attracted to the bouncer and I don't want to befriend him, why would I force conversation past "how are you" if there's no agenda? I'm there to pick up girls not play footsies with some dudes at the bar.

That's not to say I'm anti-social or anything. There's a bar I frequent and I LOVE talking with anybody there, for instance. They play boxing fights on the screens and I can drag someone into my world and have a great time that way. Sometimes I go up to a guy sitting alone and strike up conversation.

I've spoken to people in all kinds of venues, and I never have to force it. I'm seen as very social in some places and reserved in others. Forcing conversation for the sake of "social proof" seems a bit silly to me.


Some advice has definitely helped me break past plateaus but some is given as a one size fits all method. I think that many of us are here because we weren't born and raised as bubbly extraverted personalities and we've had to learn things a different way. Forcing things doesn't sit right with me unless it has to do with facing your own fears or improving.

There are probably 1% of men on the planet that actively participate in the seduction community. Probably even less. Imagine if 40% of men did. You'd have a bunch of robots talking the same way, using the same methods, and you'd have a bunch of canned personalities on hand.

 

[BPH]

The failure of PUAs and red pill gurus is what led me to this site.

A lot of those guys talk a big game, and some even have success like they claim - but when you dig a little deeper you find that sometimes these women are paid actresses, sometimes paid escorts, and sometimes the guys just suck at talking to women but it doesn't matter because they're wealthy or have social proof online.

The framework to follow is the one that aligns with your goals and works for you. I discovered that through the exposure therapy known as cold approaching. You might discover it some other way.

You've posted with a lot of questions over the course of the last month or so, but you're also frustrated often. I think you need to realize that this takes time and often doesn't have some sort of epiphany moment. You will most likely slowly get better with women because you'll interact with them enough to see patterns and know how to respond to X situation because you've been in it before.

Just relax and enjoy yourself while you learn. There's no rush.

 

[Oatmeal31]

The failure of PUAs and red pill gurus is what led me to this site.

A lot of those guys talk a big game, and some even have success like they claim - but when you dig a little deeper you find that sometimes these women are paid actresses, sometimes paid escorts, and sometimes the guys just suck at talking to women but it doesn't matter because they're wealthy or have social proof online.

The framework to follow is the one that aligns with your goals and works for you. I discovered that through the exposure therapy known as cold approaching. You might discover it some other way.

You've posted with a lot of questions over the course of the last month or so, but you're also frustrated often. I think you need to realize that this takes time and often doesn't have some sort of epiphany moment. You will most likely slowly get better with women because you'll interact with them enough to see patterns and know how to respond to X situation because you've been in it before.

Just relax and enjoy yourself while you learn. There's no rush.

True. I had questions on my mind in the backburner before I discovered this site, so I've been dropping them.

It's true I've been frustrated. I take things personally, which I should work on and I also feel like I have to do this much by a certain time. I'm 26 and have the feeling it'll only get harder as I get older, so I've been going full steam ahead

 

[Bingo-Player]

Quite simply you can't systemise attraction its a complex formula that can't be bottled and sold

Some women will not find you attractive no matter what you do , that is the reality

Women do generally respond well to masculine personality traits, but that isn't going to guarantee you sex

The best course is to find out what type of girls are into you and go from there , too many guys assume they can learn some routines and get any girl they want

It doesn't work like that start with the low hanging fruit

 

[Clockwerk50]

I think the whole dating and attraction environment can be simplified into three key areas: who you are (your character-looks, personality, status, wealth), how you court (timing, escalation, logistics, flirting, planning dates), and what happens after sex (maintaining, deepening, or ending the relationship).

There are definitely techniques that help you maintain leverage. For example, the spinning plates strategy prevents oneitis, and declining a "let's be friends" offer keeps you from getting friend-zoned while subtly reinforcing that you're only interested in a romantic dynamic.

But at the end of the day, it's your identity that attracts women. And often, they'll subtly guide you on what to do to keep things progressing toward their natural climax-sex.

One big mistake I made early on was blindly applying advice without considering context. As an example, a lot of dating content teaches you how to text, but often, they're demonstrating what to text after sleeping with a woman (how to get women hot by texting her videos). I naively followed those same patterns with women I hadn't even met yet, which backfired. That's the problem with a lot of Youtube advice-it leaves out the nuances and context that actually make the difference.

 

[zekko]

Some advice has definitely helped me break past plateaus but some is given as a one size fits all method.

It's all one size fits all. This is something that has always bugged me about PUA gurus. They basically instruct you how to be a specific "type" of guy - the bad boy cad. I think it's because it's the easiest one to teach. But there are many types of guys. I've always thought that to really help someone who struggles with women, you have to know them, and get down to the specific reasons where they are failing, and what they can do to fix it.

Some guys might change just one little thing they're doing wrong and bam! they're having crazy success. Other guys might need entire personality makeovers, but in a way that they can be congruent with. Some guys have serious issues that need to be dealt with. Some guys are just boring, and need to learn how to be more fun. Some guys are jackasses, and not in a good way.

One guy who used to be here, @Atom Smasher used to like to say that you have to take all the advice, draw out what works for you, and discard the rest. A lot of truth in that.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The problem is your mindset. Get your head in the game.

 

[Mike32ct]

It's all one size fits all. This is something that has always bugged me about PUA gurus. They basically instruct you how to be a specific "type" of guy - the bad boy cad. I think it's because it's the easiest one to teach. But there are many types of guys. I've always thought that to really help someone who struggles with women, you have to know them, and get down to the specific reasons where they are failing, and what they can do to fix it.

Some guys might change just one little thing they're doing wrong and bam! they're having crazy success. Other guys might need entire personality makeovers, but in a way that they can be congruent with. Some guys have serious issues that need to be dealt with. Some guys are just boring, and need to learn how to be more fun. Some guys are jackasses, and not in a good way.

One guy who used to be here, @Atom Smasher used to like to say that you have to take all the advice, draw out what works for you, and discard the rest. A lot of truth in that.

Absolutely. And some guys will actualy do worse if they follow advice from a PUA guru that is TOO incompatible with their natural personality.

I tried the c&f back in the day, and it did not “land” at all. I’m not a “ball buster” in real life, so I could not pull it off. It came across insulting even though I was joking. I improved after I dropped it from my game.

Another one is telling a nice guy to be more aloof/DGAF because that is what the bad boy does. This can be problematic because the nice guy might already be coming across as naturally aloof due to shyness, introversion or being on the spectrum. So now the PUA advice doubles down on his aloofness and makes him come across as cold, which doesn’t land either.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Yeah, because anyone who promotes being a "pick up artist" is the equivalent of a martial arts instructor who claims he can turn you into an unbeatable fighter ala. Bruce Lee and Steven Segal in one of their FILMS(reality is often much messier*)... This isn't an especially fresh revelation, and it's one that was noticed looooooooooooong before anyone was babbling about Red Pills and the like https://www.askmen.com/entertainment/austin/the-future-of-the-pua.html Note the date that article was written


*https://espowyn.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/bruce-lee-bullshido/

Quote: "Bruce's success — or lack thereof — in actual practical martial arts will never go away no matter how much the diehard Bruce Nuthuggers wish for it. Theoretics only goes so far, you can’t swim unless you get into the water and get wet. You can’t really do martial arts unless you actually fight" Same is true of most self-proclaimed PUAs and preachers of Red Pill Theology

The legendary story of Steven Seagal and 'Judo' Gene Lebell

The legendary story of Steven Seagal and 'Judo' Gene Lebell. Is it truth or fiction? Ronda Rousey certainly says that it is completely true and defended Lebell.

faroutmagazine.co.uk

 

[zekko]

Another one is telling a nice guy to be more aloof/DGAF because that is what the bad boy does. This can be problematic because the nice guy might already be coming across as naturally aloof due to shyness, introversion or being on the spectrum. So now the PUA advice doubles down on his aloofness and makes him come across as cold, which doesn’t land either.

You are spot on about the being aloof stuff. That was me to a tee, that was the last thing I needed to hear. I grew up painfully shy, with poor social skills, and I realized a lot of people thought that I was snobby. When nothing could have been further from the truth. I was already coming off as too cold. I didn't need to be told to be aloof, I needed to get out there and practice socializing, and trying to develop some "warmth" in my personality. Warmth is something you never hear about. But if you will observe, people who have warmth draw people into them and are able to make every person feel like they are special.

Quote: "Bruce's success — or lack thereof — in actual practical martial arts will never go away no matter how much the diehard Bruce Nuthuggers wish for it. Theoretics only goes so far, you can’t swim unless you get into the water and get wet. You can’t really do martial arts unless you actually fight" Same is true of most self-proclaimed PUAs and preachers of Red Pill Theology

I love the Bruce Lee scene in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, one of my favorite movies.

 

[Mike32ct]

You are spot on about the being aloof stuff. That was me to a tee, that was the last thing I needed to hear. I grew up painfully shy, with poor social skills, and I realized a lot of people thought that I was snobby. When nothing could have been further from the truth. I was already coming off as too cold. I didn't need to be told to be aloof, I needed to get out there and practice socializing, and trying to develop some "warmth" in my personality. Warmth is something you never hear about. But if you will observe, people who have warmth draw people into them and are able to make every person feel like they are special.

Thanks, I struggled with that too and still do to an extent. My “blue pill” friend kept telling me to smile and be more “warm.” He kept warning me that I was coming across as cold. (I’m a warm person at heart, but it’s not obvious unless somebody gets to know me in person.) I kept resisting his advice (for years) because it went against my PUA or early RP “education.”

Aloof is ok if a guy is super good looking and/or maybe has a solid strong/silent bad boy image. But it’s not good advice for other guys.

The gurus have this misconception that all nice guys are super clingy, overbearing, “simps.” But, many are the complete opposite. They need to show some warmth, even at the risk of getting friendzoned sometimes. Aloof won’t get them anywhere.

 

[zekko]

The gurus have this misconception that all nice guys are super clingy, overbearing, “simps.” But, many are the complete opposite. They need to show some warmth, even at the risk of getting friendzoned sometimes. Aloof won’t get them anywhere.

It's a matter of balance. You have to find the right balance so you're not too cold but not overeager either. I went through all this long before I had heard about the Red Pill - I don't even think we had internet back then, so it was trial and error. I would think "I was too clingy with her, it turned her off", then with the next "I was too aloof with her, it turned her off", bouncing back and forth until I found the right mix. That's what they call "calibration".

 

[Serenity]

From the moment I was exposed to PUA material over 10 years ago I have approached the subject trying to understand why someone would say it works. It's easy to discount it thinking they're talking out of their ass, but by default I give it the benefit of doubt and try to consider how.

I have benefitted greatly and learned a lot from seeing it like that.

Back when I was essentially clueless I went at it experimentally. I tried it, I tried the opposite and I tried something else entirely. What I seek is understanding and curiosity is what I apply to get it, eventually at least.

I discovered another effect relevant to this. Someone could do something and it works, I could do the exact same and it doesn't work. The inverse also applies, I can do something and it works, someone else doing literally the same thing doesn't work. So what the fvck is going on with that? Again, I needed to understand and now we're digging deeper into the seduction.

There's something beneath the surface. It's not as simple as do A to get B on a surface level. It might look like that if you observe someone in action, but these small moments that work are always just a tiny part of a much larger context. I act within a wider context, that's why I can do crazy sh!t and it works because the context enables it. Someone else doing the same thing without setting up the same vibe beforehand is going to make it weird 100% of the time.

PUA advice is surface level. It's not worthless, but only if you manage to understand where it's coming from. Knowing the source is what's valuable because then you can be an infinite source, not reliant upon the inner source of others.

It's like when I started thinking about the nature of happiness. I could rely on sources of it external to myself, which is how most unhealthy habits are formed, or I could learn to be a source of it within myself. I chose the latter because if others can be a source of it then I sure as fvck can be one too, we're literally born with the ability and it's just a matter of figuring out why it's not working if it doesn't.

I remember "canned material/openers" back in the day. There someone is providing me with some line to use, but where the hell did that line come from? Someone had to come up with it at some point and likely out of seemingly nothing. I've seen guys who just make brilliant sh!t up on the spot, so it's definitely possible. So what am I gonna do? Learn a finite amount of lines that someone else came up with or learn how to generate infinite amount of lines for myself? If I pick the option of learning finite lines, what do I do if I don't have a line that fits the situation? I'm just fvcked if that happens, so I need to know how to adapt in the moment, I need to be a source.

The surface level sh!t taught by PUA's is not where it's at, it's analyzing how they come up with it in order to make up your own stuff. I think this is my greatest takeaway from watching the free RSD videos back in the day, I didn't just merely copy their examples, I dug down deep to understand how they think and see the world in order to do as they do. These guys clearly had some pull and on the surface it was really hard to see how they could do the crazy sh!t they did and it would still work. So crazy that copying it and inappropriately applying it in situations would have very negative consequences, but that's the thing, it's applied in the right context at the right time and they know when that moment hits because of the way they perceive the moment and the context around it.

PUA teachings is basically guys who get it explaining their experience from their own perspective. It feels fake and doesn't make sense because the guys trying to learn it is very far from having that perspective and is lacking the experience. I didn't get it either if I look far enough back, but I totally get it now.