Anybody here have their concealed carry permit?

[Gears of Led Zep]

'm all for 2nd amendment rights]

surprise surprise

and I think if more people were trained, and carry conceiled, there would be less crime. The criminals do have the advantage, in the fact that they don't care about the laws.]

I have no fvcking clue why you think that if im a criminal im going to be put off by your gun. i can get my own gun w.e.

I don't even need a gun to function as a criminal. Are you going to go around and shoot drug dealers cause they're criminals, or prostitutes for that matter? Either be less vague in what our trying to say, or else actually think through the implications of what youre preaching.

Further, I think that in this day and age criminals for the most part don't commit large scale crimes in public places. yes there is still date rape, kidnapping for ransom, etc. But there is no FVCKING way you are going to convince me with a logical argument that people carrying concealed guns is going to somehow deter this... if you enjoy carrying a gun that is your business, dont act like its something its not. We have moved beyond the days of bank robberies and casino heists, our crime is very different now. You act like youre going to be a vigilante or some sh!t "im preventing crime with mah concealed gun"

Understand that the crimes you think you may prevent, things like mass shootings, or w.e, these acts are more often then not carried out by people who are mentally unstable first, and criminals second. Is a crazy person necessarily going to be deterred by more people carrying guns?

However, keep in mind, that if you have to draw your firearm, you must be prepared to shoot. A lot of people could not, or should not, put themselves into that type of situation. Don't pull it, unless you are willing to take another life. You could be challenged on that.

You're just a citizen out to do good. You're a fvcking nobody. I get it, taking the responsibility for public safety into your own hands because the plebes can't protect themselves. I agree that a lot of people should not draw their firearms, but thats a separate issue. and hope that anyone who does ever draw a firearm has more sense than this.

A lot of times, it may just be better to not get involved. But, you will have to make that choice if/when you are needed.

Also, carrying concealed comes with it a sense of duty, to others, that is important to understand.

It's a big responsibility, and congrats to taking ownership of that responsibility.

Im sorry this is just too funny, I really can't take this seriously. is there a shortage of security personnel where you live? I used to live a block away from Compton (you know where the gang violence happens?), and I never actually felt the need for a gun (I'm white maybe that made a difference), I doubt where you live is more dangerous, unless you live in a border town run by cartels, but then my advice is to leave, not stay and buy a gun.

 

[user43770]

surprise surprise


I have no fvcking clue why you think that if im a criminal im going to be put off by your gun. i can get my own gun w.e.

As a criminal, wouldn't you prefer to rob someone who was unarmed? Don't you think that the possibility of getting shot might be a deterrent?


I don't even need a gun to function as a criminal. Are you going to go around and shoot drug dealers cause they're criminals, or prostitutes for that matter? Either be less vague in what our trying to say, or else actually think through the implications of what youre preaching.

There have been studies that show that an increase in legal firearm ownership correlates with a drop in violent crimes (rape, robbery, etc).

Further, I think that in this day and age criminals for the most part don't commit large scale crimes in public places. yes there is still date rape, kidnapping for ransom, etc. But there is no FVCKING way you are going to convince me with a logical argument that people carrying concealed guns is going to somehow deter this... if you enjoy carrying a gun that is your business, dont act like its something its not. We have moved beyond the days of bank robberies and casino heists, our crime is very different now. You act like youre going to be a vigilante or some sh!t "im preventing crime with mah concealed gun"

Date rape and kidnapping for ransom? Where the hell do you live? In my state we worry about knife to your throat rape and armed robberies. Casino heists? hahaha

Understand that the crimes you think you may prevent, things like mass shootings, or w.e, these acts are more often then not carried out by people who are mentally unstable first, and criminals second. Is a crazy person necessarily going to be deterred by more people carrying guns?

Perhaps not, but the threat that they pose may be neutralized sooner.

You're just a citizen out to do good. You're a fvcking nobody. I get it, taking the responsibility for public safety into your own hands because the plebes can't protect themselves. I agree that a lot of people should not draw their firearms, but thats a separate issue. and hope that anyone who does ever draw a firearm has more sense than this.

I'm no vigilante. I know this. They actually teach you this in concealed carry classes. You aren't supposed to pull your weapon unless you fear for your life. If you happen to stumble upon a violent felony (e.g. rape) you can also use deadly force. I have no intentions of stopping a bank robbery.

Im sorry this is just too funny, I really can't take this seriously. is there a shortage of security personnel where you live? I used to live a block away from Compton (you know where the gang violence happens?), and I never actually felt the need for a gun (I'm white maybe that made a difference), I doubt where you live is more dangerous, unless you live in a border town run by cartels, but then my advice is to leave, not stay and buy a gun.

Violent crimes can happen anywhere at any time. Nobody knows if or when they are going to be a victim. All we can do is be prepared. Personally, I've never had a law enforement officer follow me around to protect me. There isn't a cop sitting outside of my house keeping watch. What are you going to do if your luck runs out? Are you going to just lay down and let it happen?

Responses in bold. And I know you weren't talking to me.

 

[Drdeee]

Guns don't kill people, defenseless gets people killed.



Would you believe that ever since I moved to Russia I've been stacking on guns and ammo and own a big bad ass arsenal of military weapons. I can stop a column of tanks if need be, and shut down a plane. I carry knife with me, Boker automat Kalashnikov 101. If I have to drive out of krai I carry 9mm PYa.

 

[Gears of Led Zep]

--sorry, flew off the handle a bit--

 

[Mr.Positive]

You're just a citizen out to do good. You're a fvcking nobody.

I thought this ^ was pretty damn funny. Where do you live Gears, btw, where "citizens" are nobodies? Communist China?

Here in America, citizens are individual people that can and do count, and make a difference in making the world a better place.

Don't blame folks for exercising their rights to gun ownership here. It's our freedom and we love it.

Here's a joke, since you gave me a laugh..hopefully this will give you one back. Cheers!

A guy makes a rolling stop at a stop sign, and gets pulled over by a local policeman.
The guy hands the cop his driver's license, insurance verification, plus his concealed carry permit.
"Okay, Mr. Smith," the cop says, "I see your CCW permit. Are you carrying today?"
"Yes, I am."
"Well then, better tell me what you got."
Smith says, "Well, I got a .357 revolver in my inside coat pocket.
There's a 9mm semi-auto in the glove box. And, I've got a .22 magnum derringer in my right boot."
"Okay," the cop says. "Anything else?"
"Yeah, back in the trunk, there's an AR15 and a shotgun. That's about it."
"Mr. Smith, are you on your way to or from a gun range...?"
"Nope."
"Well then, what are you afraid of....?"


"Not a damn thing..."

 

[Gears of Led Zep]

I thought this ^ was pretty damn funny. Where do you live Gears, btw, where "citizens" are nobodies? Communist China?

Here in America, citizens are individual people that can and do count, and make a difference in making the world a better place.

Lol, I live in norcal, my idea of making the world a better place is volunteering at a free needle and condom distribution clinic. I'll remember to bring my own gun if i every decide to commit a crime in florida or texas, and the south shall rise again...

When I posted what you found so funny...


I meant to be funny...

Im making fun of you because the attitude you portray to me indicates that you think you have to paternalistically protect people. Guess what? normal people do just fine without your protection ty very much

I for one believe that the Constitution is a bit dated itself and we probably shouldn't need to follow it to this exact T anymore, especially about the gun laws. Actually basically only about the gun laws, those should most likely be removed in this day and age.

EDIT:
that's also not a very good joke

well thank god that wasnt an awkward post or anything like that...

 

[Mr.Positive]

Im making fun of you because the attitude you portray to me indicates that you think you have to paternalistically protect people. Guess what? normal people do just fine without your protection ty very much..

So...why do you volunteer at the free needle and condom clinic then?

Your contradictions are very confusing, if people do fine without any help or protection....why do you volunteer? They don't need your help, right?

You volunteer because you know you make a difference in the world around you. You need to expand your thought process on that a bit...

BTW, I don't carry conceiled. But, I support it. I hope if I ever get attacked and I have my life threatened...some good man nearby is carrying conceiled and damn well knows how to handle a firearm.

I own guns to protect myself and those I care about. If some bastard breaks into my home with the intent on hurting me or others, laugh all you want from behind a keyboard. I'll meet that bastard standing tall. IE..I've got the tool to protect myself instead of being a victim.

It happens. I've seen it firsthand, with my own eyes. Too many times. That is the world we live in. Predators prey on victims and take from others. That is a fact. The wolf/sheep dynamic. Attacking GOOD people who own guns is not the right fight.

Numbers don't lie. Where there is a heavily armed population, the number's show that crime is lower. If you are actually in NorCal, you should know that.

 

[Gears of Led Zep]

Numbers don't lie. Where there is a heavily armed population, the number's show that crime is lower. If you are actually in NorCal, you should know that.

Ok.!!!!

Carrying a gun around like some wannabe Rambo might help you, IF YOU'RE TRAINED. And by trained I don't mean that you regularly shoot clay birds or 'live' at the range. The ability to hit a can at 40 yards doesn't do **** if you're not used to being in an extremely tense situation where words aren't the only thing flying. I pulled a few points from a documentary I watched a while back, which is in no way infallible but as I stated it has a few valid premises.

Average Citizens Not Prepared to Handle a Gun in an Emergency
Opponents also point out that most people are ill-prepared to handle a gun. Only six states, for instance, require any kind of training before issuing a routine permit to own a gun, according to the San Francisco-based Legal Community Against Violence. Of the 48 states that allow concealed-carry permits, less than half require people to "demonstrate knowledge of firearm use and/or safety," and even fewer require an actual training course.

Such a lack of training sends up red flags for people like investigator Benton and firearms instructor Glen Dorney.

"Rounds are coming back at you," Benton said. "You've got outside environments, people are screaming, running. It's too much for a normal person who's never been trained to deal with. It's overwhelming."

If you're untrained you're more likely to freeze or fumble getting yourself hurt, you're more likely to misfire and possibly maim/kill innocent bystanders and probably most importantly you're going to escalate the situation; something you're (most likely) not trained to deal with let alone instigate.

You bring up points about defending yourself from undesirables, addicts and whatnot on the street or even your own home. You pull a gun on them, what's going to happen? Sure, they could bolt. But the bottomline is you have no ****ing idea what they could do, they're criminals for a reason, they're unstable and generally violent. They could just as easily pull a gun on you and they probably have less to lose than you, they probably wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger like you and instead of losing your wallet and keys you've lost your life.

http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2009/04/if-i-only-had-gun-abc-attempts-to-make.html

That's the only clip I could find of the documentary and I repeat I do not think it unbiased, infallible evidence. It could have been done much more fairly but I'm just adding this so you trolls don't attack my source instead of dealing with the argument.

The armament of the general public probably deters the common thugs of the streets but more importantly it encourages the armament of criminals, which encourages more guns to be used in policing in some cascading cycle of negative reinforcement. Which is a ****ing dilly of a pickle America has gotten ITSELF into. Obviously there is not short term or even viable moderate long term solution for the problem without putting many people at risk so the argument isn't going to end any time soon.

I've got friend's in New Zealand with murder and burglary rates wayyyy lower than America, even though their police force as a whole isn't armed with anything more than a taser. But if we Americans are so set on arming ourselves I urge that the only way to help reduce deaths is mandatory training not only in ranges but consistent defensive combat training in a similar (but obviously less intense) manner to the police. Because without it, every Joe, Bob and Randy is going to stroll the streets with a colt in their jeans thinking they are untouchable and people are still going to die.

 

[Gears of Led Zep]

So...why do you volunteer at the free needle and condom clinic then?

Your contradictions are very confusing, if people do fine without any help or protection....why do you volunteer? They don't need your help, right?

You volunteer because you know you make a difference in the world around you. You need to expand your thought process on that a bit...

BTW, I don't carry conceiled. But, I support it. I hope if I ever get attacked and I have my life threatened...some good man nearby is carrying conceiled and damn well knows how to handle a firearm.

I own guns to protect myself and those I care about. If some bastard breaks into my home with the intent on hurting me or others, laugh all you want from behind a keyboard. I'll meet that bastard standing tall. IE..I've got the tool to protect myself instead of being a victim.

It happens. I've seen it firsthand, with my own eyes. Too many times. That is the world we live in. Predators prey on victims and take from others. That is a fact. The wolf/sheep dynamic. Attacking GOOD people who own guns is not the right fight.

Numbers don't lie. Where there is a heavily armed population, the number's show that crime is lower. If you are actually in NorCal, you should know that.

Are you serious, i volunteer at needle exchanges because it helps me just as much as everyone else, do you think I want more people who arent safe to have sex with because they have AIDS?
You are trying to act like I think that people cant make a difference in the world, wrong I know they do, what I dont believe is that having more guns concealed or otherwise is going to lower crime rates. you are reading a point of view into my posts that does not exist.

basicaly you're a a vigilante with a self-imposed sense of duty and arbitrary idea of justice carrying a gun

 

[Mr.Positive]

basicaly you're a a vigilante with a self-imposed sense of duty and arbitrary idea of justice carrying a gun

Vigilante? I just want to be left alone. If my freedom is compromised, I'll fight for it. I'm not going to let some turd take my freedom away.

Gears, it's obvious you feel very passionately against guns and folk's right to own and carry them. I don't think you should make assumptions about people though. Why do you think I have not been trained? Actually, I was a cop for bit. The firearms training I went through would rival any training in the country, better than the FBI, or military. My beat was a bad one, every night I had to pull a firearm on someone who was threatening my life.

I feel as comfortable with the firearm I trained with as most folks do with a screwdriver, or a hammer, or any tool. Muscle memory.

The reason I don't feel the need to conceal carry right now, is that I don't want the responsibility of it. With the responsibility, comes the duty to act if/when needed. Few folks understand that. The ones that conceal carry do, and I respect their decision to take that responsibility. I do keep that firearm handy to protect myself in my home, and will use it if my life is threatened.

Trust me on this one, the bad guys have the guns and will use them regardless of the laws. Trying to take guns away from the good guys will only cause more crime, more victims "out gunned". Go take a walk in the ghetto and count the number of gunshots you hear on a given night. That needs to change, not the gun laws.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Mr. Positive and Danger are both spot-on.

Imagine the chaos that would ensue if criminals knew beyond a doubt that nobody was armed except for them.

Our founding fathers ensured the right to bear arms specifically to avoid a dictatorship taking root in our country. The first thing a rising dictator needs to do is to disarm the population. This thread has inspired me to go for my full carry permit. I've been thinking about for a while now.

 

[5string]

Danger is right, as always.

I have a right to be armed, guaranteed by the constitution (which is not outdated in my opinion). I have a right to protect my family and my property.

Anyone who does not excersize this right, well, that's their right and I respect that.

Respect mine.

And as far as the constitution is concerned, think about this. We had many intelligent men, patriots if you will, who came together at one point in time, with one common purpose who wrote the constitution. A document which guaranteed our freedoms and saved us from tyranny.

The stars were truly alligned.

And yea, I carry a Glock 19 in my truck and have a S&W 1911 .45 at home to defend myself and my family.

 

[Gears of Led Zep]

You think the Constitution is outdated??? I cannot believe anyone would say such a thing.

Plenty of things in the US Constitution have been found to be outdated (or missing) and subsequently amended over the years, most non-Americans are even aware of this.

Little things like Women Voting, Slavery, Blacks Voting, and Presidential Term Limits were all totally missed in the original Constitution. So lets not be saying it's totally infallible and cannot become outdated, because it has already been shown to have flaws on several occasions.

The US Constitution isn't perfect or timeless, thus why Article 5 exists - even the founding fathers themselves knew it wasn't going to be a perfect and timeless document.

Danger, ladies and gentlemen, with the most ignorant post of 2011

 

[KarmaSutra]

"This is my rifle (holding the butt of my Winchester 30-30 )," This is my gun (grabbing my balls and junk)."

I think Gears and Danger both have very valid perspectives on this issue. I think the glue to put the two together is a combination of temperance and common sense.

I have guns. I own them. They don't own or define my masculinity. I have guns because of what they provide as protection against those ruffians who would prefer to take from me, or cause me harm. I don't have big guns to shove in my pants and flaunt around.