Anti-Dump Still Sucks

SexPDX

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I don't post much anymore and even spend very little time lurking. However, showing up and seeing an Anti-Dump post on the main page of the site is frustrating nonetheless. I realize that you guys who post on the forum don't decide what articles go on the main page of the site, Allen does. Also, I don't read what is posted here enough to know how much Anti-Dump's ideas influence this place anymore.

To reiterate my main disagreements with Anti-Dump there are two main ones. First is that his whole approach appears to be aimed entirely at finding the "most interested woman" you can possibly find. I believe guys should definitely want to find a woman who is interested in them but her interest in you is just part of it. What about YOUR interest in HER. Since Anti-Dump was mostly focused on finding a woman to marry this is really important. I definitely think that most of us have certain qualities we look for in a woman besides just how interested she is.

What we learn in this community (in my interpretation) has always been about making ourselves more interesting to women in general. Assuming we come to be successful at this, there will actually be MANY women who are interested in us. Due to this increased general female interest in us, we will be in a position to see which of these women WE are most interested in. In short, that the woman's interest in us, which is nonetheless important, should be some sort of prime directive seems silly.

Second, because Anti-Dump's approach is all about finding this postulated "most interested woman" his methods for interacting with women seem to involve a lot of tests to see how interested she is in you. There is nothing wrong with testing a woman's interest but there is the issue of CREATING the supposed interest that is being tested of which Anti-Dump's approach seems destitute. He seems to believe that a woman's interest in you comes from seeing you for the first time and nothing else. Based on my experiences, I don't consider this an accurate description of the facts of life. Maybe if you are a boxer brief model it is closer to the truth but for the rest of us a woman's interest in us depends largely on our communication, and by improving our skills in that respect we are able to interest more women.

Having said all that, the article which now sits on the front page of sosuave.com is as flawed as any of Anti-Dump's ideas, if not more so. The idea that a woman will be think you are "in demand" as Anti-Dump puts it because you carry a paper and pencil is off base. Just because you are prepared to get phone numbers says nothing in the world about whether or not you are getting laid. I have done A HELL of a lot of PU and the times in my life when I was getting the most phone numbers were not when I was getting laid the most, not by a longshot. If your conversation skills suck and you don't create solid rapport and attraction she is not going to be suddenly attracted to you because you whip out a pencil and paper to get her phone number. On the other hand, if you have an awesome conversation with you that fascinates her and draws her deeply into you she isn't going to be totally appalled when you finally ask for her number and say, "gee, I don't have a pen, let me get one."

Anti-Dump also says in this article that there are two kinds of women who will not like you for carrying a pencil and paper for numbers and one of them is one with emotional problems who "can't stand the thought of competing with others." First of all, the idea that she is going to believe she is competing for you based on your having a pencil and paper has no basis in reality, even in a woman's mind. Most women have seen many guys who carry such things and many of them aren't getting laid and women are able to tell that is the case. Second, most women have emotional problems, it is more a questions of which ones you can deal with and which ones you can't than it is finding a woman with none whatsoever. If you know which emotional problems you simply can't deal with there better ways of finding if she has THOSE problems. That topic is beyond the scope of this post but those tools exist. The notion that carrying writing utensils is some sort of screening mechanism for emotional health is laughable.

None of this is to say that carrying a pencil and paper to write down numbers is a bad idea. Only that Anti-Dump reads way too much into the message it sends to women and how they will react to it. At best, to say you should carry a pencil and paper is a nuts-and-bolts tip. It is convenient to do so, and it goes no deeper than that.

This is another example of how he focused on the wrong things. The quality of your interactions with women are where you want to focus your energy. That is where attraction is created and you learn about her, whether you are even interest in her and if you are, what you have to do to make it happen (whatever "it" is).

-PDX
 

Roobs

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are you happy? is he happy? where is the problem
 

The Bad Ass Canadian

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Nice to see you back around, SexPDX.... and I agree 100%.

I don't carry a pencil or paper around... ever. I rarely ever grab a girls number, unless I'm 100% sure I'd be interested in taking her out.. Usually, if I'm out at a bar or a party, I can escalate and get some action within a few hours (with very few rejections) so there's never any real need to grab her #. And second of all, I find it an incredibly geeky thing to do, for me, anyways. I'm not the type of guy who just so happens to have a notepad and pencil kicking around in his pocket.

If i am interested in seeing her again, I'll put her # in my cell phone.

and there's no way in hell that showing her you carry a pen and paper to write numbers on will send the right message. In my mind, it sends the opposite message. You are way too concerned with fishing for phone numbers that you actually need to be prepared in case you do get one. Don't seem right to me.
 
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I think I have to go read that article again... are you sure there was NOTHING there along the lines of "this is in addition to"?
 

Desdinova

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Nice to see you posting SexPDX!

I've had problems with many of Anti-Dump's theories as well (especially waiting to call her). I didn't find this tip on the main page (oh well) but I have to agree with you:

On the other hand, if you have an awesome conversation with you that fascinates her and draws her deeply into you she isn't going to be totally appalled when you finally ask for her number and say, "gee, I don't have a pen, let me get one."
Rapport is extremely important. Conversation is extremely important. Although a simple idea, these two are MAJOR contributing factors to attracting a woman. A pen and paper is a convenience. You would get the same result from memorizing her phone number.

The physical appearance is NOT how a woman makes her decision on a man, and most of us here know this. A man could be wearing his tattered work clothes and still attract a woman with his personality. A man could be wearing a goddam speedo to the bar, and he can still be rejected if he comes off as needy and desperate.

I believe guys should definitely want to find a woman who is interested in them but her interest in you is just part of it. What about YOUR interest in HER.
The way I worked things was to attract as many women as possible, and then pick which one(s) I wanted to date. The whole thing works on the process of elimination. The best woman (not necessarily the most interested upon first meeting) is the winner of the man.

Women's interest can fluctuate. The feeling of "love" can also fluctuate. It is purely foolish to assume that once she's interested, it's set in stone. I've proven this to be false many times.

Second, most women have emotional problems, it is more a questions of which ones you can deal with and which ones you can't than it is finding a woman with none whatsoever.
Very, very true. However, as I'm discovering for myself, her emotional problems aren't set in stone either. They can change and fluctuate as well. Tolerance of her little imperfections and her emotional charges (and discharges) definately come into play. But in the end, it all boils down to how well the woman treats you, and how much she respects you. This is what will make you tolerate her imperfections and emotional problems, or cause you to move on.
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

skip2mylou781

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wtf is this pencil and paper talk??? dont EVERYONE use cell phones these days to take girls #s?? paper and pencil is like sooo 10 years ago. this is RIDICULOUS that we even talk about "paper and pencil". If you are over teh age of 18 and DONT have a cell phone, then ur a LOSER. Everyone knows that u get a girls # by typing her name and # into ur phone. WOW
 

Mr_knowit_all

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I was thinking the same thing. While I don't think you're a loser if you don't have a cell phone, I think the concept of writing a number down with a pencil and paper is a bit out dated.

There's another point I'd like to address. I think a lot of you guys UNDERESTIMATE the importance of looks. Sure women will be attracted to charm and humor, but it's looks that keep her.

I'm not sure who said this, but I think it sums things up nicely. "If a woman is physically attracted to you, there's very little you can do wrong on a first date. If she's not attracted to you, there's very little you can do right"

It's absolutely possible for an ugly guy with game to win out over a better looking guy, but the truth is, the better looking guy already has his foot in the door, and you'll be playing catch up.
 

Vulpine

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If you have a house phone and not a cell phone, you are brain dead.

Pay for long distance? Uh... long distance on the end of a cord? Pay for long distance that you cant walk outside with? Soon "paying for long distance" will be another antique idea like the "rotary phone".

Get a cell phone first, then a house phone, but you never need a house phone.
 

skip2mylou781

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i see soooo often guys who r over the age of 21 posting about having paper and pencil, getting a girl to write her # on a napkin, and bs like that.....im from boston, and around here when u go out, u ALWAYS have a cell on u, this has been the cast for the last 5 years at least.....if u get a girl's # using a paper and pencil, like if u actually GET OUT a paper and pencil from ur pocket, she will flat out think ur a fool.....welcome to the 21st century
 

Desdinova

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If you are over teh age of 18 and DONT have a cell phone, then ur a LOSER.
Personally, I enjoy leaving the phone at home when I go out. I have no use for a cell phone, so why should I pay for one? So I can cater to other people's impatience? Forget it.

There's nothing THAT important where I need to carry a cell phone. They can leave a message on my voicemail if they need to get ahold of me.
 

DJDamage

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A couple of things.

Anti-Dump wrote most of his stuff at the late 90's early 2000. It is obvious that after 6-8 years people would figure out through the knoweldge of field reports of other posters that you can do better. This is what the evolution of what a DJ is all about. Anti-dump paved his way to Pook and Pook paved his way to Senor fingers and so on....

What you are arguing against is irrelevent. Were there alot of posters with a DJ mentality when Anti-Dump wrote his stuff?? No there was barley a community back then. He was able to filter out most of the supplicating sh1t that doomed men and brought them faliure over the years and therefore he needed a simple starting point. Once you achieve success its up to someone else to carry the tourch and expend it.

Lets look at a few things you mentioned.

1) "Finding the most interested woman" - What is wrong with this tip??! He never said take an ugly woman just because she is interested. I am sure that it is obvious that he refers to finding the "most interested woman whom appeals to you" other wise you wouldn't need his tips because it ain't so difficult to hook up with a hippo even if you are an AFC.

2) The whole Paper and pen - Don't forget the quality and size of cell phones back then. I remember the first cell phone I bought was in 1998. That thing was a little bit bigger then today's cell phones but a whole lot bulkier. You couldn't really get away with putting it in your pants because you either look like you have a tail or have a huge bonner (pending where you put it). When I went out I always left that cell phone in the car. Getting a piece of napkin and a pen from a bartender was not such a difficult task. Today's cell phones are much lighter and thinner and can easily be placed in your pocket, hance all you need to do is punch in the number and it saves automatically. Today also everyone uses an e-mail but in the late 90's in was a new technology and not a whole lot of women cared for it.


SexPDX said:
This is another example of how he focused on the wrong things. The quality of your interactions with women are where you want to focus your energy. That is where attraction is created and you learn about her, whether you are even interest in her and if you are, what you have to do to make it happen (whatever "it" is).
I agree with you there. However that is why there are hundreds of names in the DJ Bible because people expended on a small concept and created a much more complex knowledge base.

DJD
 

Vulpine

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Desdinova said:
Personally, I enjoy leaving the phone at home when I go out. I have no use for a cell phone, so why should I pay for one? So I can cater to other people's impatience? Forget it.

There's nothing THAT important where I need to carry a cell phone. They can leave a message on my voicemail if they need to get ahold of me.
Uh, that is the other side of the coin. I find that I too leave my cell at home a lot. A phone is a huge lump in my pocket... all that cargo messes up the "line" of my pinstripes.
 

The Bad Ass Canadian

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lol at the guys who are arguing about the cellphone thing. Your argument is irrelevant to what SexPDX is talking about. Yup, the cell phone is how it goes, nowadays but like Desdinova, I leave my phone at home, alot. I'm not about to have some goofy thing hanging on my waist on a gay-assed belt clip (the modern man's pocket protector, IMO) and I don't like having it in my pocket... especially when there could be a coat check at the club.. then I'm stuck with either leaving it in my coat or carrying it around. Both of which aren't options.

How bout having the chick write her number on your chest as a little game? I've done that before. Good way to get some proximity with her.. (assuming you've built enough rapport)
 

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Oh yeah, the pen and paper thing.

I have a sharpie mini on my keychain. Sharpies are great because you can write on a shot glass, coaster, shoe, hand, bathroom wall, chest, swizzle stick, whatever... much fun. Since the phone is in the car or at home, the sharpie has been a life saver. But, BAC, Des, and I are pretty old-fashioned I would say. There is just something about the written phone number that has a special "Tah-Dah!" like a trophy won that a cell phone number exchange can't duplicate.
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

The Bad Ass Canadian

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Vulpine said:
Oh yeah, the pen and paper thing.

I have a sharpie mini on my keychain. Sharpies are great because you can write on a shot glass, coaster, shoe, hand, bathroom wall, chest, swizzle stick, whatever... much fun. Since the phone is in the car or at home, the sharpie has been a life saver. But, BAC, Des, and I are pretty old-fashioned I would say. There is just something about the written phone number that has a special "Tah-Dah!" like a trophy won that a cell phone number exchange can't duplicate.
Here's my true view on getting a number, wether it be written down or entered in the phone. I prefer being written on by a girl. Get her to sign your chest or something.... it's flirty

It takes all of 2 seconds to write her name and number down and bang, it's done.

With a cell phone, it can take up to a minute to enter the girls name and number... pretty lame, if you're "supposedly" in a rush. plus she's just standing there watching you and it gives her time to size you up and POSSIBLY second guess her decision to let you call her.

And on the other end, if the chick turns out to be a flake, you can crumple up the number and chuck it (or wash it off)... the other way you gotta go into the phone and scroll through menus and crap to delete it.

My cell phone is for real friends and girls I deem worthy of being in my phone. I.E the ones who have made it past the first few dates.
 

skip2mylou781

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ur automatically stupid if u have a cell phone and dotn take it when u go out, thatg is plain idiotic!!!

its there for many purposes:

1)in case of emergency, u just pull out ur cell and call 911 or the cops or w/e.
2)if u need to call up a friend to see if theres a party goin on or w/e
3)if a chick flakes, u need the phone to call to make other plans
4)if someone important calls when ur out, do u just wanna miss the call???

i mean cmon wtf if u got a cell phone, u dont leave it at home....and the #1 reason u have to take it with u no matter where u go is because u never kno when there will be an emergency where u would need to call someone.

getting chikcs #s is a whole other thing....u need ur cell to make calls cuz u never know when u'll need to make one.
 

Doggystyle

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skip2mylou781 said:
wtf is this pencil and paper talk??? dont EVERYONE use cell phones these days to take girls #s?? paper and pencil is like sooo 10 years ago. this is RIDICULOUS that we even talk about "paper and pencil". If you are over teh age of 18 and DONT have a cell phone, then ur a LOSER. Everyone knows that u get a girls # by typing her name and # into ur phone. WOW
I was just going to say this.....apart from loser part!
On my drunken nights out I always wake up with strange numbers in my phone that I dont know who they are!
 

The Bad Ass Canadian

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skip2mylou781 said:
ur automatically stupid if u have a cell phone and dotn take it when u go out, thatg is plain idiotic!!!

its there for many purposes:

1)in case of emergency, u just pull out ur cell and call 911 or the cops or w/e.
2)if u need to call up a friend to see if theres a party goin on or w/e
3)if a chick flakes, u need the phone to call to make other plans
4)if someone important calls when ur out, do u just wanna miss the call???

i mean cmon wtf if u got a cell phone, u dont leave it at home....and the #1 reason u have to take it with u no matter where u go is because u never kno when there will be an emergency where u would need to call someone.

getting chikcs #s is a whole other thing....u need ur cell to make calls cuz u never know when u'll need to make one.
I'm having a hard time imagining how i ever got by, a few years ago, when cell phones weren't all that common, judging by how you guys are reacting. What happens if there's an emergency? WTF is that? If there's an emergency, the right people will track me down, or leave a message on my voicemail. I'm never away from a phone for very long. And someone usually knows where i am.

You guys make it seem like you can't live without your phone.

Must be the slight generation gap.

I grew up without ever having a cell phone. We got along just fine.
 

Desdinova

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ur automatically stupid if u have a cell phone and dotn take it when u go out, thatg is plain idiotic!!!
Does that mean I'm completely braindead for having time on mine?

1)in case of emergency, u just pull out ur cell and call 911 or the cops or w/e.
If there's an emergency, I'll use someone else's cell phone or a pay phone. 911 calls are free on pay phones. There's always the phone at the bar or a neighbor's house. Phones aren't hard to come by. I'll put time on my phone if I'm travelling or I'm expecting an emergency to happen (dying relative).

2)if u need to call up a friend to see if theres a party goin on or w/e
Most of my friends don't "party".

3)if a chick flakes, u need the phone to call to make other plans
I make spontaneous plans for myself. I don't need to phone people to alter my plans, nor do I need a friend to accompany me.

4)if someone important calls when ur out, do u just wanna miss the call???
I have voice mail and caller ID. I'll get back to them when I get home.

These are all your reasons to carry a cell phone. Everyone's needs and situations are different. We have survived without cell phones for centuries. It's not a necessity, but a convenience. If my situation isn't necessarily altered by the use of a cell phone, why should I pay for something I'm not going to use?
 

Channel your excited feelings into positive thoughts and behaviors. You will attract women by being enthusiastic, radiating energy, and becoming someone who is fun to be around.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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