An Old Story with NO Ending...

[Bobman]

Hello, SoSuavers. First-time user, first-time writer here. I have a bit of a problem which I'm SURE is hardly a new one here, but no one anywhere else can tell me anything that is either constructive or not painfully annoying.

First a little background on me. First and foremost, I was raised for the last 2 decades to believe that sex should not happen before marraige because it basically screws up whatever relationship you're in (and despite the efforts of my non-virgin friends to educate me otherwise, they have nothing to back up their beliefs). I don't have as many friends as others might, but the few friends I DO have are more worth it. I was always something of a social outsider, yet it is a unanimous decision that when I am in a large group of people, I'm an absolute joy to be with. I'm a great conversationalist who is usually more often than not very adept to getting a laugh out of whomever I'm talking to. Now, HERE is the problem. I have absolutely NO trouble talking to women, THAT can be established right off the bat. The problem is reciprocating. Why is it that I'm a wonderful person to be with until I give even the SLIGHTEST inkling that I may or may not be attracted to a lady, then she's either got a boyfriend (a fact which NEVER surfaces until said inkling), or they lie about it to get away from me?

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Bobman
Hello, SoSuavers. First-time user, first-time writer here. I have a bit of a problem which I'm SURE is hardly a new one here, but no one anywhere else can tell me anything that is either constructive or not painfully annoying.

First a little background on me. First and foremost, I was raised for the last 2 decades to believe that sex should not happen before marraige because it basically screws up whatever relationship you're in (and despite the efforts of my non-virgin friends to educate me otherwise, they have nothing to back up their beliefs). I don't have as many friends as others might, but the few friends I DO have are more worth it. I was always something of a social outsider, yet it is a unanimous decision that when I am in a large group of people, I'm an absolute joy to be with. I'm a great conversationalist who is usually more often than not very adept to getting a laugh out of whomever I'm talking to. Now, HERE is the problem. I have absolutely NO trouble talking to women, THAT can be established right off the bat. The problem is reciprocating. Why is it that I'm a wonderful person to be with until I give even the SLIGHTEST inkling that I may or may not be attracted to a lady, then she's either got a boyfriend (a fact which NEVER surfaces until said inkling), or they lie about it to get away from me?

let me ask you this before I answer... and answer honestly..

do you masterbate? Ever? how often?

 

[Bobman]

A couple times a week. Don't tell me that THAT has anything to do with it. :S

 

[backbreaker]

Okay, now explain the logic in this for me, because I am dying to hear this..

It's not okay to have sex with a woman before marriage, but it's okay to have sex with yourself?

I'm an athiest, however I grew up in a southern baptist church, and from what I gather, sex is sex.

If it's bad, it's bad with yourself just as it is with you and a woman (or man... whatever floats your boat)

Now, the masterbating isn't a problem.. lot's of guys do it.

however the masterbating shows what your problem, at least what I precieve it to be is

Bobman, your problem is that you are an intlectual.. what I mean by that, is you try to "smart" your way into a woman's life.

You seem to think that you are better because you don't need sex to be happy, that you should get women because you are "better than that", you pride yourself on not being a sexual being.

But in reality, you are just as sexual as everyone else, it's just converted and not overted

Now don't get me wrong... inteligence is a very sexy thing if used corretly and is always better than being dumb.

But you are put in the situtation, where you seem as though you try, probably by mistake and not on purpose, to show everyone how "special" you are when you talk to them, and you turn people off, not because they don't like you but because you might make them feel insecure... it's hard for alot of people to be around people who they thnk are better than them.. why I don't have many friends now

All and all, you aren't that far off, you just have a little soul searching to do... what does BOBMAN want?

I would read the DJ Bible if i were you, and try to read all the posts made by Pook.. he has some good advice on this exact subject

 

[Bobman]

You seem to think that you are better because you don't need sex to be happy, that you should get women because you are "better than that", you pride yourself on not being a sexual being.

That's not it at all. I was just brought up that sex complicates matters far worse than if it didn't occur. Most of the time, I don't even tell that to anyone, so how could it be my downfall?

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Bobman
That's not it at all. I was just brought up that sex complicates matters far worse than if it didn't occur. Most of the time, I don't even tell that to anyone, so how could it be my downfall?

I think you are on the right track..

I mean by all means, if that's what you believe in than go for the guesto.. that's great.

However, women are sexual beings when it's all said and down.. you being Non sexual, you are comnig off as androgous, which isn't sexy in the least bit.

Remember, to attract women, a woman has to be ATTRACTED to you.. so there is some sexuality involved..

all in all however, you seem to be a good person.. just understand that if this is the route you want to go, you will just have to find some women that share the same beliefs as you

 

[Bobman]

You're not saying that I should just be myself and be patient, are you?...

And I always thought that women were REPELLED by guys trying to be sexy with them until they've been going out for a while.

 

[Bobman]

Remember, to attract women, a woman has to be ATTRACTED to you..

That doesn't make sense. To put on pants, your pants must already be on. To drive a car, the car must already be going with you in the driver's seat.

To do ANYTHING, it must first start off with that anything not happening yet.

 

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Bobman
That doesn't make sense. To put on pants, your pants must already be on. To drive a car, the car must already be going with you in the driver's seat.

To do ANYTHING, it must first start off with that anything not happening yet.

see, you are doing it right now.. you are trying to bring an intellectual approach to something that couldn't be the farthest from intellectual

You are trying to rationalize sexiness.. attraction is an emitonal state, and not a fact or forumla. Sexyiness is a huge part of what attracts women.. it's great you are smart, and I can tell you are but as often said, intellectuals often don't understand how intelligence can be overrated

Read the DJ bible, it will help alot, and alot of what I am telling you is in there, and you need to read it anyway

 

[Bobman]

I'm sorry. I know you're trying to help me here, but it just ends up sounding like every other piece of advice I've had, which inevitably falls flat. I've reads other books and online help, and they all seem to say the same thing which doesn't seem to apply to me in any way.

Got a link to this DJ Bible? I can't find it around.

 

[Tha Realnezz]

^He's telling you to work on your look.

 

[Bobman]

You can't tell me that it's my look that's turning women off to me, because I've seen some of the groddiest examples of men out their with EVERYTHING I want in a woman clutching onto their arm. This is a frustrating situation for me because everything everyone tells me cannot be backed up with any sort of proof. They say to be patient and let the women come to me. They don't. They say to keep on asking women out, because for every one or two women who say "no", one will say "yes". No one has said "yes" yet. Women all say that they don't like facial hair, but then go on to say that my beard and mustache are some of my more defining, interesting and attractive features.

 

[Bobman]

dont ask about her boyfriend and dont be fazed if she mentions him, just take it onboard that you probably showed too much interest too soon and continue with the sarge as normal!

I DON'T ask. He never comes up. I'f I'm talking to a girl, very often I'm catching "the signals" that just might suggest that she's into me. I ask her out, and she suddenly flees. What the hell just happened? I don't really know what "too soon" means in this case, but I DO know that if she is indeed single, I have to get her before some ******* does. If that sounds self-centered, that's only because there's really no better way of putting, but damn it, why does everyone else I see around me work as fast (if not faster) with a much higher success rate than me??

 

[Bobman]

Might be because you get frustrated easily jk jk

You SOOOOOOO just saved yourself by adding that you're kidding.... *lol*

Calm yourself down!!! Its a woman! Your getting all worked up over a harmless girl!

It's not A girl, it's every girl I've ever talked to. Pardon my coming across as hot tempered here, but this is the result of trying for 5 or 6 years now and having absolutely NO luck whatsoever. I'm seeking help from EVERYONE I know, and they're really just as dumbfounded as I. THe offer advice that has worked so many times before, but they just can't understand why their words of wisdom don't help me. I'm jsut a victim of a bitter history, I suppose.

YOU should also be KINOing straight from the beginning of the convo

Which is what exactly?

 

[ethnomethodologist]

Originally posted by Shezz
The reason women are shirking away from you, telling you they have boyfriends etc is because you are telegraphing too much interest too soon!

When a woman says - "I have a boyfriend", nine times out of ten what she's really saying is - "You just telegraphed too much interest".

Shezz, wanna elaborate on this some more?

You just struck a chord with me. I LOVE applying JKD to my everyday lessons. The tao of JKD is part of my soul now. I still have yet to elaborate it from the effial.

(Alright something is bugging me... why is it when searching and you choose NOT to find something, the number of pages goes up?)

Telegraphing your moves is a key part of confusing your opponent. Your moves have to flow.

To be non-telegraphic is to not show your intentions. You must allow your body to control pauses. The only pauses allowed in telegraphing are meant to create confusion. In no way should there be any amount of telegraphing your moves as even a twist of your foot can tell your opponent that you are going to stirke with the antagonist hand.

How is it that he telegraphed his moves TOO soon? When is a good time to telegraph your interest? Is there such thing as allowing a small amount of interest, and what is the seduction term in use to describe what you are speaking about?
--------------------------
Bobman,

Question before I also decide to try answer your question..

What kind of slight inklings are you giving these girls?

 

[Bobman]

What kind of slight inklings are you giving these girls?

Everything that I'm told is supposed to work. Eye contact, smiling, showing an interest in who they are and what they do, keeping the convo going at any cost, throwing in the occassional flirt here and there... Sometimes they just tell me right away that they're taken without ANY sort of provocation. I'm in the college bookstore once, and I see this cute girl shopping for books for a class I've already had. "Buying books for Mr. So-&-So's class?" I ask, "Sorry, he's a tough one." Then she responds with "My boyfriend already had him and said he's easy," and just when about her business. The PERFECT inane, small-talk college conversation and she just beats it down with "my boyfriend".:cuss:

 

[Bobman]

you sound a little wussy imo. Shoot me if im wrong but thats my view.

You're wrong.

 

[Bobman]

Oh boy, here we go... Do I dare ask what it takes to attract women, or am I only going to get the same advice that I've been getting for the last few years that has been completely ineffective?

Again, pardon my negativity, but I really have a difficult time being positive after all the rejection I've been through. I don't have problems with women saying no to me, I just have a problem with EVERY woman saying no to me

And what is bootcamp exactly?

KINO is Hand Holding, Thumb Wars, High Five, Arm Around Waist etc etc Pretend to brush and eyelash off her cheek - make sure to 'stroke' her cheek.

Aside from the thumb wrestling and high fiving, tht sounds REEEEALLY creepy coming from a guy that isn't the boyfriend. Or am I wrong about THAT too?

 

[backbreaker]

I see your problem now... you seem to be afraid of intmacy.

How many GF's have you had in your life? How did they work out?

 

[Bobman]

How many GF's have you had in your life? How did they work out?

NONE. I've only been on one date in my entire life, and she already had a boyfriend back in Kansas (which I didn't even catch until my borther told me after the date (we were double-dating)). My borther wants me to be happy, so I know he didn't tell me that just to stop me dead in my tracks. THIS is why I'm all in a tif about this. If I can't attract women now, why should I think that I'll be able to later in life? Everyone tells me that there will be others, but there hasn't even been ONE yet.