Aloofness part two

[backbreaker]

About a month ago i made a post about how my aloofness was my go to play. And it is/was. I mean, I don't even try to be aloof I kinda just am In real life backbreaker is a pretty quiet/reserved dude. I talk when I need to say something and I don't when I don't. I don't like to listen to myself talk believe it or not lol.

This has actually happened to me 2 times in the last 2 weeks, but I will use yesterday as an example. There is this chick who I honestly, didn't think was all that in to me. I mean, I don't really care but I generally can get a feel for who I think is into me and who isn't. For the last few weeks she'd find reasons to talk to me about this or that. A few weeks ago I was talking to another girl who I know and she comes up to me and she asks me to help her with something about her phone even though I don't have the same phone as she has. Then she asks me do I know how to get to a certain restaurant another day. Yesterday she comes up to me and asks me do I work on computers and I'm like yeah and she was like well my pc guy is sick and something is wrong with my computer can you look at it. I was like sure, so as soon as i say that she busts out her phone and asks for my phone number.

So we get to talking and she's laughing or what not and she asks me if i have a birthday coming up and I do and she asks how old i am going to be and I tell her. To make a long story short, she asked me if I wanted to go grab something to eat and I of course had to decline being a kept man and all.

But this is what I am getting at. I didn't, honestly, see the **** coming. I really didn't. So after I politely rejected her I asked her.. lol why didn't you just come out and ask me if i were single and if i wanted to go on a date or flirt with me like a normal girl flirts lol. I mean why did you have to beat around the bush like you wanted me to work on your computer or some ****. I mean, I'm just curious. And she told me point blank, "you're intimating"


And this, right here, is why aloofness is 1000% money. AM I intimating? hell no lol. my wife would have cried laughing had she heard that. I'm' the most unimtating person on earth. I have a high pitched voice at that and I'm short." But because I don't put my lift on front and center street, beucase I'm not blabbing about whatever or whoever all the time, because I'm not going out of my way to look like a horn toad, s he doesn't know **** about me.

she's spoken to me before. she makes fun of me squinting all the time because I don't like to put in my contacts sometimes and i have horrible vision and i will squint at evertyhing. she's asked me questions I've answered but I'v eleft it at that. not beucase i'm trying to impress her because I frankly don't have **** else to say I'm not trying to pick her up.

Just go about your damn business, let her wonder. let her imagine. The resturant question for instance, that was a toe in the water move. when she finally built up the courage to ask me for my phone number and i sat there while she smoked a cig and we shot the **** and i was very chill and very cool and even made her laugh, i was a lot nicer / down to earth than she expected me to be.

that's what i am trying to say.

most guys, who game women and try to hard are trying to work their way up from a bottom.

when you are aloof and you wait for her to come to you, she's put you on a pedastal already and when she actually talks to you, as long as you aren't just a prick and you come off as cool you can't **** it up lol. she had made me out to be this arrogant egotistal self centered pretty boy and i'm not. I'm not self centered at all lol. No seriously lol she made me out to be this thing that was unapproachable because of the way I carry myself. and when she found out that i was approachable, had i wanted her, the game was over.

 

[zekko]

I've said this before, but I don't think these girls approach you because you are aloof. They approach you because you are good looking/dress well/in good shape/have some sort of charisma (you wouldn't have been a successful salesperson if you didn't). You've said ourself you have tweaked your weight so that it is in the sweet spot to get the most female attention. I bet you could be more friendly and still get approached just as much, if not more probably.

I also wonder if you aren't sending some sort of signal, maybe even subconsciously, that you are either available, or taken but willing to screw around.

lol why didn't you just come out and ask me if i were single and if i wanted to go on a date or flirt with me like a normal girl flirts lol

This is just what they tell guys not to do here.

I'm' the most unimtating person on earth. I have a high pitched voice at that and I'm short." But because I don't put my lift on front and center street, beucase I'm not blabbing about whatever or whoever all the time, because I'm not going out of my way to look like a horn toad, s he doesn't know **** about me.

she's spoken to me before. she makes fun of me squinting all the time because I don't like to put in my contacts sometimes and i have horrible vision and i will squint at evertyhing.

Sounds like you have some quirks. No one would give advice saying "Be short, talk in a high pitched voice, and squint a lot. That will get you girls". But here we have the real world in action. When you are attractive, people will like your personality quirks and mannerisms. It all becomes part of the package.

most guys, who game women and try to hard are trying to work their way up from a bottom.

Aloof is definitely better than trying too hard.

when you are aloof and you wait for her to come to
you, she's put you on a pedastal already and when she actually talks to you, as long as you aren't just a prick and you come off as cool you can't **** it up lol

The problem is that if most average guys waited until a girl came up and asked them out, they would probably get to have a date about once every ten years.

I'm not self centered at all lol

Lol.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Totally agree zekko. Women are attracted to a guy based on his looks/appearance.

You certainly don't want to appear trying too hard or desperate, so in that sense some aloofness is beneficial. Also often it's better to let her imagination work to your advantage than to screw it up with something you say or do that she interprets negatively. You generally don't want to completely reveal your sexual/romantic interest and attraction in a woman too strong and too soon, but that's different from being generally aloof.

But the aloofness itself is not triggering the attraction per se. Your looks and appearance are. The aloofness is just forcing her hand to act on her attraction, which women on acting on attraction is unreliable. If women are not attracted to your looks/appearance, aloofness doesn't accomplish anything.

I'd say with two men of roughly equal looks/appearance, the more outgoing one would attract more women. Some women like aloof/reserved guys (that are good looking) but most women like men who are more extraverted and outgoing.

 

[yyc12]

^^well I have to agree with the others here.

I think we should all just agree to disagree regarding this. We all have had different experiences. For the rest of us "average" people, this simply doesn't work. Aloof has gotten us NOTHING other than being called socially inept. This (and any other "tactic" for that matter) only works if the person already finds you attractive, in which case, unless you're REALLY inept in every way possible, you really screw it up. Not paying attention to someone who would otherwise be indifferent to you will not get her pvssy wet all of a sudden. They'll just assume you're not interested. I'll concede that the biggest AWs' that are used to being chased all the time by everyone may wonder why you're not also like everyone else but that in and of itself will not get her interested in you.

For most of the people, most of the time, being outgoing and simply approaching the person you're interested in has been the common practice and will continue to be so. No sense saying something that works only for the most attractive among us is what the average guy should be doing.

 

[backbreaker]

the difference between being inept and aloof is the way you preiceve your own behavior.

If you feel like an outcast or wired you will come off as that. if you feel like you being aloof is perfectly normal than it's attractive being the woman has some initial interest in you int he first place

this **** plays out every week in front of my eyes. hell, even pook wrote about it in the DJ bible

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16770

lol you guys act like i'm just pulling crap out of my ass or something this **** is tried and true. it works.

 

[Stagger Lee]

the difference between being inept and aloof is the way you preiceve your own behavior.

If you feel like an outcast or wired you will come off as that. if you feel like you being aloof is perfectly normal than it's attractive.

I would agree that if your natural self is to be aloof or reserved then it would be a mistake to try to act more outgoing or less aloof. And probably vice versa.


However, I'd say the difference between being inept and being aloof is the way women preceive your behavior. Which is based on your looks and appearance.

And If you come off as being an outcast or wierd, then you may start to feel that way despite being aloof is perfectly normal for you. There's plenty of basically normal guys that are naturally aloof but not attractive that experience this from women.

It's a simple matter of attribution or causation of attraction. Good looking+aloof=attractive, Not good looking+aloof=outcast, weird, even "creepy". It's all subjective female perception dependent on one's looks/appearance.

 

[yyc12]

the difference between being inept and aloof is the way you preiceve your own behavior.

I can agree with this.

if you feel like you being aloof is perfectly normal than it's attractive being the woman has some initial interest in you int he first place

This is the point I made, so we're in agreement, lol. For the record, I myself have been described as "aloof" before...I have yet to have someone take an interest in me without me having to make the first move.

I know there have been threads detailing others' experiences regarding this (you stated many times in other threads that you're very attractive)...but for the rest of us that might be 7/10, sitting/standing by the wall looking like the cat that ate the canary simply doesn't work.

 

[disgustipated]

I'll agree with this only when your own perception of what you're doing is your norm. As BB said. I got aloof comments all the time when younger...truth is I.was very shy and was trying desperately not to.come off as wierd. It must've worked at times.

The difference today is I have no problem, feels normal, to go most all.places alone. I feel comfortable dining alone, shopping, whatever. I used to have mini anxiety attacks in my early 20s just going shopping alone...now I prefer it. I could even go to a bar alone now BUT, I'd sit at the bar or play pool because that's natural for me....walking around by myself breaking sets of people is not....so I'd come off wierd doing that. So I expect aloof works if it comes off naturally. Could you really care less if the hot girl at the gym talks to you? Or anyone for that matter? Yeah and being semi attractive but approachable helps, aloof and very very attractive I bet could be offputting.

 

[backbreaker]

I can agree with this.



This is the point I made, so we're in agreement, lol. For the record, I myself have been described as "aloof" before...I have yet to have someone take an interest in me without me having to make the first move.

I know there have been threads detailing others' experiences regarding this (you stated many times in other threads that you're very attractive)...but for the rest of us that might be 7/10, sitting/standing by the wall looking like the cat that ate the canary simply doesn't work.

I mean, you guys make it sound like I'm denzel washington or some ****. Am I good looking? I would rate myself a solid 8. but keep in mind I work out every morning ust about 4 days on one day off. i count every calorie that goes in my mouth on saturday.

When I say I look good I mean, I have a decent enough looking face, it works fo rme, i have the baby face thing going. but i 'm in shape. i have a strong jaw line. my face has very little if any fat on it. my body has very little fat on it. I have muscle tone. i take care of my body.

the only genetic thing that i would say i have an advantage of is my skin completion women love it. but i mean i don't roll out the bed and look like brad pitt or some **** i work at it. if i stopped working at it i'm a pretty avg looking nother****er

 

[yyc12]

I mean, you guys make it sound like I'm denzel washington or some ****. Am I good looking? I would rate myself a solid 8. but keep in mind I work out every morning ust about 4 days on one day off. i count every calorie that goes in my mouth on saturday.

When I say I look good I mean, I have a decent enough looking face, it works fo rme, i have the baby face thing going. but i 'm in shape. i have a strong jaw line. my face has very little if any fat on it. my body has very little fat on it. I have muscle tone. i take care of my body.

the only genetic thing that i would say i have an advantage of is my skin completion women love it. but i mean i don't roll out the bed and look like brad pitt or some **** i work at it. if i stopped working at it i'm a pretty avg looking nother****er

Haha, we did that? YOU did that, lol. Now you're backpedalling, lol.

I'm pretty slender in a muscular way (but somewhat boyish) as i work out as well, I dress well, don't slouch, smile at everyone eye contact is made (especially in a social setting), i'm only 5'10 though so. In all honesty, I've yet to have a woman show difinitive interest in me without me pursuing her.

I've been rated a "7.3" before (i'm black too, in the light skinned side..been told i kinda look like lewis hamilton, FWIW, lol). I find it hard to believe there's that little difference between us if you're an 8, lol, as the reaction from women we seem to get is night and day.

 

[zekko]

lol you guys act like i'm just pulling crap out of my ass or something this **** is tried and true. it works.

I don't doubt that this works for you. I don't doubt that this is your experience. I just think this is one of those things where different guys are going to have very different experiences.

This kind of reminds me of a thread in the regular forum now which points out all the contradictory PUA advice. You can find PUA advice to tell you practically anything under the sun. What works for one guy is not necessarily going to be the experience that someone else has. Life, and the real world, has a whole lot of different variables that can affect someone's experience.

Pook was another guy who was able to draw women just by virtue of his looks/personality/whatever. Despite all that he wrote about approaching, he said most of the time he just sat back and let women approach him.

the difference between being inept and aloof is the way you preiceve your own behavior.

If you feel like an outcast or wired you will come off as that. if you feel like you being aloof is perfectly normal than it's attractive being the woman has some initial interest in you int he first place.

I'm naturally aloof, and I am completely at ease with that. I do believe that being aloof is part of my charm. But although I know women are attracted to me (a certain spectrum of women, anyway), they do not come up to me and ask me out. Well, they do sometimes, but not often enough to support a DJ lifestyle. You seem to come out with a new story like this about every two weeks.

It's interesting, because there are girls I can freaking tell want me, you know. They flirt and stare me down and I can see it in their eyes. But I can wait until hell freezes over, they are not going to make a move.

Bottom line, for the average guy, I don't think that "Do nothing and let the girls come ask you out" is going to be very effective. I will agree that the ones that do are going to be high interest, however. Aside from the inevitable attention wh0res that bite on this stuff. The last several stories like this you told, you weren't even trying to attract these women, or were even paying close enough attention to realize that they were interested.

 

[backbreaker]

yeah who am i kidding i'm pretty hot lol.


i remember one day i asked my wife in the car out of the blue "do you think i'm attractive" and she gave me this violent "yes" head shake like "hell yes" and i thought wow i mean ovbiously i know you think i'm good looking you are my wife but not to that extent

 

[Mike32ct]

I'm with Zekko and Stagger. I totally believe these are your experiences BB. But different guys will have different experiences.

I'm very aloof. I've always been that way. But generally I only had women approach me (once in a while) during my looks peak of say 28 to 31 yo. These days, it doesn't happen. Same personality, just a reduction in the looks department. So I do think it's highly looks dependent.

BB is correct that you shouldn't view your own aloofness as weird. You do have to "own" it, no doubt.

But the other side of the coin, as a Stagger points out, is that how women view your aloofness is important too (although beyond our control).

A guy who isn't good looking is in sort of a double-bind. If he's too quiet/aloof, he's considered a socially inept weirdo by women. His quietness might increase his perceived creep factor, sadly. On the other extreme, if he's too forward and outgoing, he risks being perceived as annoying creeper.

The average or below average looking guy has a bit of a balancing act to follow in this game. He needs to be assertive and smooth but not overly aggressive or too socially outgoing (unless he is naturally that way).

 

[backbreaker]

lol yeah i just had a woman tell me, as in like 20 mintues ago i look like Denzel Washington. you guys might be on to something. I can see how you would probalby have to alter the way you do things depending on what you bring to the table.

if i didn't have game and i had a lot of money i could see how i could be more flashy to attract woman and it would work. i am not flashy because i don't have to be.

if i were fat and out of shape i could see how i would have to probably press the issue more than i do.

but at the same time, i guess you can say this is good looking guy game. nothing wrong with good looking guy game. a lot of good looking guys dont' have game. i didn't have game for a very long time lol.

 

[nismo-4]

I'm with Zekko and Stagger. I totally believe these are your experiences BB. But different guys will have different experiences.

I'm very aloof. I've always been that way. But generally I only had women approach me (once in a while) during my looks peak of say 28 to 31 yo. These days, it doesn't happen. Same personality, just a reduction in the looks department. So I do think it's highly looks dependent.

BB is correct that you shouldn't view your own aloofness as weird. You do have to "own" it, no doubt.

But the other side of the coin, as a Stagger points out, is that how women view your aloofness is important too (although beyond our control).

A guy who isn't good looking is in sort of a double-bind. If he's too quiet/aloof, he's considered a socially inept weirdo by women. His quietness might increase his perceived creep factor, sadly. On the other extreme, if he's too forward and outgoing, he risks being perceived as annoying creeper.

The average or below average looking guy has a bit of a balancing act to follow in this game. He needs to be assertive and smooth but not overly aggressive or too socially outgoing (unless he is naturally that way).

The bold is true as hell and the bulk of what you need to know.

 

[FairShake]

You know what being ugly and aloof gets you? Ignored.

Trust me...I know.

That said if a chick digs you a little aloofness at first helps. Knocks them back for a loss and they have to makeup yardage since they weren't expecting it.

I'm not self centered at all

I disagree with this part.

 

[yyc12]

a lot of good looking guys dont' have game. i didn't have game for a very long time lol.

...and you probably still got poooonnn!! for the rest of us, it seems as if we have to make women a focus of our lives just to something. And yes, I'm bitter and jealous, :crackup: , don't mind me, moving along...nothing more to see here, lol.

 

[backbreaker]

it's funny and it's kinda changing topics somewhat but people act like good looking guys don't have game / girl problems too. I've said this before, if we are talking about, being able to date girls, I never had that problem. But after a while, you take girls for granted. and now you want something better, then just regular ass girls. you want dimes. i wanted dimes. i wanted girls i couldn't get.

I felt just as ****ty not being able to get girls i wanted, as the guy who comes here and couldn't get any girl at all felt. because we both felt rejected. The fact that i was able to get some poon is inconsequential if it's not what i honestly desire.

 

[zekko]

it's funny and it's kinda changing topics somewhat but people act like good looking guys don't have game / girl problems too

There was a poll here awhile back and something 60% of the guys on this forum said they were an 8 or above. I call bullsh!t on that one, because to my mind, 8's are fairly rare, whether they be male or female. An 8 has to be exceptional, looks wise.

Anyway, for what it's worth, you are one of the few posters here that I actually believe is an 8, because the stories you tell match that. Plus your father was a big ladies man, so it's clear you're coming from good genetic stock.

I do think it's a bit disingenuous to do nothing and have girls hit on you, then pat yourself on the back for having good game. How hard is it to do nothing?

Not that I'm saying you don't have good game. I know you're keeping in shape and dressing with style. I think you said you had to be more persistent when you were trying to woo your wife, she wasn't immediately receptive.

But after a while, you take girls for granted. and now you want something better, then just regular ass girls. you want dimes. i wanted dimes. i wanted girls i couldn't get.

I think pretty much everybody who gets into seduction wants a better grade of woman.

 

[Stagger Lee]

it's funny and it's kinda changing topics somewhat but people act like good looking guys don't have game / girl problems too. I've said this before, if we are talking about, being able to date girls, I never had that problem. But after a while, you take girls for granted. and now you want something better, then just regular ass girls. you want dimes. i wanted dimes. i wanted girls i couldn't get.

I felt just as ****ty not being able to get girls i wanted, as the guy who comes here and couldn't get any girl at all felt. because we both felt rejected. The fact that i was able to get some poon is inconsequential if it's not what i honestly desire.

Every guy wants dimes, if anything an unattractive guy wants them more because he never had anything close and to make up for all the crap he's been experiencing.

The difference between being an attractive guy M7+ vs an unattractive guy M5- is the attractive guy gets an occasional F8, some F7s and easily gets F6s. The unattractive guy might very infrequently get a F5-6 but struggles to get 4's and 5's. Or if he is more unattractive maybe 2's or nothing.

But it's even worse than that for an unattractive guy. Like you said, you regularly get approached, but the unattractive guys don't. Even worse, the unattractive guy has to approached and experiences more rejections and much harsher rejections than an attractive guy.

I thought picking up girls was a lot of work for me, until I got a little older and my hair thinner. I don't think I look much different, but under the microscope of looks women go by it had a huge effect.

My rule of thumb is a guy has to be a solid 5 to get any girls at all, even 1's and 2's. A guy has to be M6-7 if he wants better than F4-5's. It's very hard for a guy to get a looks matched girl outside of a social circle and LTR situation. Most men even 8-9's have to date 2 levels down 6's and 7's.

Female 9's and 10's are quasi-celebrities living strictly off their looks. Only a small fraction of the high status, wealthy, powerful, good looking and extraverted guys are getting them.