AFC Female?

[Buddha_Mind]

Such emphasis here is on what males are or are not doing and I was thinking...you know...just as there is no "golden chalice" to anything, women are just as much figuring these things out too...they have their own issues they bring to the table, and every single person [male or female] is entirely different in some ways considering their backgrounds, ect...

Are there AFC Females?

I agree...over-supplication..neediness...some of these are general turn-offs irregardless of gender, sexual orientation, ect -- but who says anyone has the exact answers?

I am finding it useful to take things I read here, from my past experiences, blend these together through trial and error and to really see what works for that particular person I care most about...some things here she would be appalled by...other things here have their positive effects..

I've been working a lot to consider myself as the yin-yang..blending of alpha and beta...sometimes more alpha...sometimes more beta...being bold and decisive..but also being receptive and a listener...there are times for both..probably knowing when to express these characteristics is one of the greater challenges...

Thoughts?

 

[5string]

Good question. The answer is yes.

I have had women simply smother me with attention to the point where my IL headed south and I cut them loose (AFC chicks). They were no challenge whatsoever.

I have said this before. The ultimate dj is a combination of nice guy, confidence and indifference. These are the guys who will score on a regular basis.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Ahhh Yes, The AFC Female. Why yes they do exist. I've gone out with a few. I'd categorize them as easy to lay, overly generous, smothering in gift giving, niceness. Completely looked the other way when I was obviously banging another woman right in front of her (weird dynamic that attracts sane ones as well, but that's another discussion). They will do ANYTHING for you, to the point you lose your respect for them. Basically they have no boundaries, when you DHV, they are simply yours to be molded, crumpled, F-d and chucked. Lets face it, we all like a little chase. The AFC woman once you show her the slightest attention will take any scrap or morsel from your table of male value and worship it.
KC

 

[DMSR76]

There are AFC chicks, but I don't think neediness is as much a factor as it is with men. We want the power dynamic to favor the man - a woman who behaves like she needs a guy is far more attractive than a man who acts the same way toward a woman. So while some women can go overboard with attention and smothering, I believe that "neediness" (quotes because it's such an overused word) is a more naturally effeminate trait - that's why needy men are a turnoff.

AFC stands for Average Frustrated Chump, remember. Frustrated means one is doing the same thing over and over and frustrated with the same results. Women who are legitimately frustrated are the ones who probably behave in more masculine fashion, believing that being strong and independent somehow equals attraction. They're sexually forward, verbally outspoken, sarcastic, bossy, attention-whoooring, etc. These women may give away the cow for free, but they end up with the only kind of men who will put up with them - pushovers. Then they complain that they can't find/keep "real" men - the Alphas who pump and dump them.

This, I believe, is the Female AFC. Unlike men, they're getting sex, but not the emotional satisfaction that most females prize. Just as Male AFCs give away the emotional satisfying way too early and don't get the sex they want.

This is dead-on. Feminism has spawned plenty of AFC women. They just spin their wheels and waste their prime years.

 

[Strelok]

A woman can be AFC as much as she wants as long as she is attractive,in fact a woman as long as she is attractive can do the most stupid things in this world and still get desired from men.

Being so hard to get a girl nowadays for many men,an AFC girl would be like a blessing to many.
The average guy would pray to have a girl whos into him with no games,sh1t tests,nagging and all the rest,getting 10 phone calls from her through the day would even help against jelousy.

Imagine and AFC guy buying gift and behaving needy and get the same back from the girl instead of the common humiliation and abandonment.

There's no way to identify the counterpart of certain male traits in girls,we are different and we value different things,no man get a boner for an aggressive
high status empowered woman who nag or try to win any given argument.

 

[KarmaSutra]

I don't think it's fair to categorize women as AFC's.

Women have completely different motives and desires than we men do, which makes their pursuit of those desires a little more imperative than ours.

Women, for the most part, want children as a life goal. They have a biological inclination to find the carrier of the best sperm to impregnate her, thus giving her a better chance at stronger, healthier offspring from him.

The problem arises when her pvssy does the talking. Similar to when our little head overrides our logical, mammalian brain when we try to fvck (and fix) broken b!tches.

What we talk about and expound on as AFC's are a different dynamic. Our model for the AFC is a skiddish, introverted guy who's afraid to seal the deal. Women, again for the most part, don't have to fret about approach anxiety. They merely go out and someone will talk to them.

Women are the receivers of both our attention and our seed. They take in what we have to offer. Systematically women will pull us in like gravity. That's not a biological or evolutionary mistake.

 

[Lexington]

I think of an AFC as a guy who has the potential to score (i.e. he has around average looks, job, social status etc) but who cannot. On the other hand, there aren't many attractive women that have a tough time getting laid.

Just because of the differences in the dynamics of the dating game for women vs. men, it doesn't really make sense to think of women as "AFCs." Women are either attractive (most men have a fairly similar standard as to what constitutes attractive) or unattractive. And unfortunately for them, there's not a whole lot they can do about it.

 

[DJDamage]

A woman's modus operandi is to find a long term higher value partner/provider for her and her future offspring's.

When she can't/doesn't have it then she is in a sense an AFC.

 

[iqqi]

Of course there are female AFC's. There are plenty of women who are completely frustrated and can't find the man that they want. Many of these women are very attractive and completely fvckable. Saying only unattractive women are AFC's, or that women can't be AFC's because they are still desired by someone male, is ridiculous. Even the biggest AFC here may be desired by a woman, but if she is completely unattractive to him, there is no connection, therefor he is still AFC. Same with women.

And there are also plenty of women who do not understand how to attract a man, and keep one. Many of these women are attractive.

Women and men are so much the same, it is hilarious to me sometimes to see how alien they are viewed here.

The exact same things that work against men, work against women. And the exact same things that work FOR men, work for women.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

These responses are interesting and diverse. I'd have to agree with some of those statements. I do believe however in some ways these definitions can be a bit cold -- I don't think there is inherently anything wrong with gift giving or short and small kisses, ect. I think it only becomes a problem when they are viewed as the conduit to another's heart, as though X number of dollars spent, or X number of soft kisses or butt smacks = higher value. I think some degree of sincerity in concern is important...I disagree with the dominant ethic on this board that people (women) are indispensable...a good nurturing woman who is independent is a positive mix...and maybe the same can be said for a good nurturing man who is independent...

I have met women who too easily threw themselves down on the line and it wasn't much of a challenge. There sure ought to be some power struggle or back-and-forth dynamic occurring. I suppose that's where some of the principles or concepts here come into play...ie, backing off on calls or messages, having them come to you, then giving back..that sort of give and take tug and pull...which isn't a bad thing -- it keeps things interesting. Nobody wants someone who rolls onto their back in submission.

I'd say the best thing to do is keep a *healthy* dynamic occurring. By healthy I mean certain dynamics...ie, no cheating, no verbal/physical abuse, violation of trust, ect...but an argument or exchanging statements about beliefs, ect, can be a positive thing -- even though it causes ripples it creates a challenge, and an expansion through the discussion...

There likely seem to be a great deal of people who are frustrated and "average"...look at our economy, the sorts of jobs that are available to most college graduates, it's hard to make high-paying-good money right now. What is beyond "average"? I am understanding the concepts of carrying oneself with dignity and respect, defending their beliefs, not allowing themselves to be dominated...but being average isn't an exact failure...frustrated however is something nobody wants to be, and this is something we can always work on...

I really think when you boil it down good relationships (long-term), and short-term definitely less relevant -- but really come down to something about good people who try to preserve the trust and respect they are building...and good people are hard to find...as are trust and respect. Being too needy or passive is going to lose respect. Women or male. I've enjoyed these responses..

 

[zekko]

Women and men are so much the same, it is hilarious to me sometimes to see how alien they are viewed here.

The exact same things that work against men, work against women. And the exact same things that work FOR men, work for women.

I don't quite agree with that. The masculine attracts the feminine, and the feminine attracts the masculine. That is inheritently opposite in some respects. How many guys do you know that would get hung up on a "bad girl", or a woman who is a "jerk" or an "@sshole"?

But I do agree that women are more like men than this forum makes them out to be - we're all people after all. And that a lot of the same techniques can work on either gender - things like playing hard to get/being a challenge.

 

[iqqi]

I don't quite agree with that. The masculine attracts the feminine, and the feminine attracts the masculine. That is inheritently opposite in some respects. How many guys do you know that would get hung up on a "bad girl", or a woman who is a "jerk" or an "@sshole"?

But I do agree that women are more like men than this forum makes them out to be - we're all people after all. And that a lot of the same techniques can work on either gender - things like playing hard to get/being a challenge.

Man, you are totally illustrating my point! One of SS's main theories is that you should believe a woman's actions, not her words. And that while she is saying she just wants a nice guy, she is going for the bad boys.

Well, fellas, it is exactly the same. Your brain is telling you that you like a nice girl, but really b!tches always win.

This is all just as shallow as it sounds, but it is true. I think immature people who don't know themselves well, are intrigued by what they can't have, and what is hard to get. This goes for both sexes. This is why women always seem to get heartbroken by the bad boy. And this is why you have so many threads here about some "bpd" chick, or flakey chick.... but the OP is HOOKED.

Think about it.

 

[Gam]

Personally I think female AFCs do exist. They get frustrated because they can't find a man or have the ASSets that other women have and so they torture themselves relentlessly. These are the type of women who eventual hook up with a guy not because she likes him, but because she needs to find someone to cling to who will validate her and make her feel like she's somebody. After she uses you to up her self esteem she might just have mustered up enough self esteem to talk to guys she's ACTUALLY attracted to.

 

[Knight's Cross]

The AFC chicks in my past were kind of like what Buddha and Zekko talked about. They didn't challenge me in any way. As well they were complete doormats to me. I remember both chicks literally begged for my attention. It was as if they had no self respect. Both needed therapy in that respect. They were both attractive, I wouldn't mind my friends seeing them with me. They just didn't believe in themselves as far as I was concerned. Both had good paying jobs. It's as if I held some power over their self esteem. I noticed they could tell other guys to pack sand, just not me. Weird really. I remember one instance that I had one bringing my mail in to my garage while I was on a trip. When I got back (with another woman) AFC girl had left a care package on my back porch with wine and glasses. Needless to say what I and the new woman did with the wine/glasses. The social proof of an orbiter works both ways. It works for women....that night it worked for me.
KC

 

[omkara]

Man, you are totally illustrating my point! One of SS's main theories is that you should believe a woman's actions, not her words. And that while she is saying she just wants a nice guy, she is going for the bad boys.

Well, fellas, it is exactly the same. Your brain is telling you that you like a nice girl, but really b!tches always win.

This is all just as shallow as it sounds, but it is true. I think immature people who don't know themselves well, are intrigued by what they can't have, and what is hard to get. This goes for both sexes. This is why women always seem to get heartbroken by the bad boy. And this is why you have so many threads here about some "bpd" chick, or flakey chick.... but the OP is HOOKED.

Think about it.

Well I just go by looks so I guess I am really mature then

 

[Strelok]

Well I just go by looks so I guess I am really mature then

You beated me on the time

Men care about look,it's not that we're attracted from b1tches it's just that goodlooking girls happen to be b1tches more often,because ugly ones cannot afford it.
All that psychological things about having what we cannot doesnt work for most of the men,we want the hottie cause is hot not cause it's hard to get.

We don't give a damn about character in choosing a partner,it's the girls who have fantasies about the bodyguard,the biker or the thug.
A good looking nice girl is fine for everybody except disturbed people,we don't need drama at all,we want things to go smooth.

Again,men and women are not the same,I wonder what's so wrong in this concept that many people deny it.

 

[zekko]

And this is why you have so many threads here about some "bpd" chick, or flakey chick.... but the OP is HOOKED.

You have a point, iqqi, but here's the difference. Guys are not inheritently attracted to b!tchy behavior (well, a small minority are). If a guy is hung up on a
b!tchy woman, it's usually in spite of her b!tchiness, not because of it. He is more likely attracted to her because of her looks, and she may have hidden her
b!tchiness until he was already hooked. Guys can get hung up on pretty girls very quickly, especially if they have few options. If the guy is not a chump, he is unlikely to put up with b!tchy behavior. One reason that I am with my girlfriend is that she is the least b!tchy woman I have ever known.

Similarly, with BPD women, guys are not attracted to BPD behavior. They are either attracted to their looks, or they are naive and buy into the signals the girl originally sends them, or the woman is just very good at hiding her true nature until it is too late. These types of girls are generally very good at presenting a false front, although I can't say I've ever been attracted to one.

 

[DMSR76]

You beated me on the time

Men care about look,it's not that we're attracted from b1tches it's just that goodlooking girls happen to be b1tches more often,because ugly ones cannot afford it.
All that psychological things about having what we cannot doesnt work for most of the men,we want the hottie cause is hot not cause it's hard to get.

We don't give a damn about character in choosing a partner,it's the girls who have fantasies about the bodyguard,the biker or the thug.
A good looking nice girl is fine for everybody except disturbed people,we don't need drama at all,we want things to go smooth.

Again,men and women are not the same,I wonder what's so wrong in this concept that many people deny it.

Thanks for this. No matter how society tries to spin it, men and women are NOT the same. If only people acknowledged this fundamental fact, male/female relationships would proceed so much smoother.

 

[Jitterbug]

I've met AFC females. They're often okay looking, but not hot enough for me to ignore their clinginess. It's not about the lack of challenge. I prefer easy pvssy. Why work harder if you don't have to?

 

[Tazman]

One thing you won't ever find, is an attractive AFC woman, if you can even catergorize them that way.