A man's response to a woman's problems in the context of a relationship

[ebracer05]

What's the proper role for a man to fill when he is in a relationship and the girl is distressed? I read a post yesterday that I thought made a lot of sense:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=196235

I've divided this post up in to 4 sections... Background/context, the problem, my response, and my questions:

Basically, women have an invisible cup that fills with the emotions they accumulate during a given time. If they get too much emotion, it overflows and they start to cry.

I know that not every time a woman gets upset it's something worth investigating and trying to help with as a man. L But I also feel like that if you are actually invested in to your relationship there are going to be times where that is necessary. So how do you make that determination and what is the best way to manage the woman's emotional state when she gets upset?

My GF took some vacation time this week and went down to a cabin in the woods with her old mother for a few days. Yesterday was her last day. She called me up last night very upset because her manager at work texted her and told her that one of the full time employees put in their 2 weeks. This is an issue because she works at a pharmacy and the lady who quit is the only other person on staff who knows how to work the computer to do the insurance billing. The company is not managed very well because IMO, the manager should know how to do that kind of stuff, but she doesn't and this is just the way things are.

[The following is contextual information is slightly f*cked up, especially to people who do not have any fondness for religion.]

She has been stressed lately because her and her mother don't get along. She still lives at home at 25 and her mother is an old Mennonite woman. She doesn't have a TV in the house because she doesn't believe in it. They don't even have a radio. My GF has a laptop and cell phone, but that's about the extent of the technology they have. Her and her mom get in daily battles because her mom wants her to never wear pants and just wear long skirts and dresses. So she wears dresses and skirts around the house but keeps some shorts in her car or wears them under her dresses. But her mom caught on to this and get's upset about that.

She goes to the park to go running, she gets home and her mom starts asking her if she ran in running shorts.

Or she goes to pool and her mom asks her if she "wore all of her clothes" (ie, not a bikini) while she was there.

Her mom is a very kind, hospitable, and even in a convoluted way is loving (what's really f*cked up is how much leeway she gives me and her son compared to her daughters... she treats me very well and has never called me out on anything... not that it would be her place, but many people like her would). However, it's an obviously extremely restrictive place to live. Her mom got mad because my GF turned on the TV while they were in the cabin.

She doesn't b*tch about this stuff to me normally unless it gets really out of hand, which isn't too often. But this sets up the emotional context for last night.

In addition to that, her father passed away, her 4 other siblings had either already or summarily moved out of the home, and she's basically stuck with her mom to deal with the farm they live on. Her autistic uncle (her mom's brother) lives next door who is a bonafide sexual predator (he molested one of her nieces ) and she buys him groceries every week and has to help take care of him. They have since sold most of their live stock, but they still have 3 horses, a few barn cats, and a dog. There are a lot of responsibilities living there.

Furthermore, I think she is expecting that we're going to get married before I move away next year (and I have not given her any reason to think this, despite the foolish things I may write here from time to time) so she has reduced her work hours so that she can take more classes at school... she also goes to school... so she can finish her degree before I leave.

Her work has given her a pretty raw deal over the 7 years she's been there. They are highering in new employees with the same job classification she has at a pay rate just a little lower than hers after 7 years. She is very submissive, they know this, and so they have progressively overloaded her with more responsibility without a corresponding increase in pay. That's her fault for not being more assertive and letting it happen, but I do like how submissive she is.

[/End context]

So she was all freaked out last night, on the verge of tears a few times, because she's afraid her job is going to expect her to work more hours than she allocated when she changed her schedule for school now that this lady quit. And as I talked to her, I also got her to identify that she becomes very envious whenever people leave because she feels stuck in her life right now and wants to "move on with it"... and she wishes it was her turn rather than someone else's.

So, guys, how do you manage this stuff? She doesn't give me sh*t like this to muddle through too often, but when she does, I always feel like the "right" things to say and do are very AFC/beta things to say. Like, I do believe in her capacity to weather the storm but it just sounds beta to me to say "Honey, I know this has to be a really hard time for you, but trust me, I have absolute confidence in your ability to succeed her. And you know what, when this is all over, you aren't going to believe how much you grew as a result of all of this".

I also feel like that as a man, it is my natural instinct to want to fix the problem. But as a woman, she isn't looking for a solution. She's just got an overflowing cup and wants to let the emotions out. Even supposing it were possible to arrive at a solution to her problem last night, I don't think it would help because that's not going to facilitate the emptying of her cup. If anything, it might just create a dam that bottlenecks the flow of the water and makes her even more upset.

So given the context of an LTR, what is the best way to go when a woman is upset about something? If one of the suppositions on this website is that women generally respond to the same attraction/mating cues, it would make sense that they would also generally respond to the same... I don't know, comforting cues? What is the man supposed to do here?

[How I responded]

Whatever I did last night, I don't feel like I did a good job. She called me after a really sh*tty day of having one obstacle after another from my family keep me from studying. I got so p*ssed in the middle of the day I thought my head was going to explode. I didn't get much done because I just needed to decompress. By the time I was just starting to feel like I was starting to relax and crawl in to bed for the night, I'm responding to a text from her from a while ago I didn't see and as I hit send, it just so happens it coincided with a phone call from her. So I accidentally answered it.

She starts unloading on to me, which is really unusual for her... I don't ever think she's just started a conversation off with a problem. She sounds like she's about ready to cry. And I can hardly think. I felt like my responses were borderline patronizing, "yea, I know that really sucks doesn't it?" or "I bet that's going to cause a lot of problems at work". I sounded like I was half dead and somewhere in the middle of everything I got this unexpected boost of energy and started telling her what to do, basically. I think I just cut her off because I was getting tired.

I told her that this is her life and not the company's, this was never meant to be a permanent job, and they already agreed to a schedule with you that you made other commitments around. It is not your fault the employee left and it isn't your fault the management doesn't have any idea how to run their store. If anything, it makes you a valuable employee and gives you a lot of leveraging power. Stop worrying about this. It was inconsiderate of your manager to give you this information on your vacation, especially when she knows how stressed you've been and especially via text, but you got it and you can't change it or deal with it. You're going to have wasted an awful lot of good things if you let this ruin your time.

And then I started complaining about my p*ssy day for a few minutes.

She didn't sound like I had uplifted her very much when I hung up. If anything, she went from sounded frantic/tearful to tired/negative.

I really don't have time to analyze this anymore. These things don't come up between the two of us very often, this might be the 3rd time at max after 8 months or so. So I figured since it happened, now would be the time to write about it.

[My Questions]

For the brave souls who read everything,

1 - What is the man's role in addressing a woman's problem
2 - What is the best way for a man to manage a woman's negative emotions re: a legitimate problem
3 - Did I handle the situation appropriately and if not, what could I have done differently.

 

[lifeislearning]

Cut to the way you handled it. Way too long.

"yea, I know that really sucks doesn't it?" or "I bet that's going to cause a lot of problems at work". I sounded like I was half dead and somewhere in the middle of everything I got this unexpected boost of energy and started telling her what to do, basically. I think I just cut her off because I was getting tired.

That first part is called active listening. You shut up and reflected her feelings. That's probably the best help you can give a woman or anyone else in a crisis. That is so rare these days and if you can master it, women will love talking to you and think you're miles ahead of other men.

When you started to tell her what to do is when you f*cked up. She knows what the problems are and what she should do. Everyone knows what they SHOULD do, and when is the last time a woman (or anyone else) ever followed advice?

You set a limit for yourself, and that's good, but there are better ways to do that and come off as caring and busy, rather than just an a**hole. If you can master that, you will beheld in high esteem by any woman you talk to.

 

[living-proof]

You handle a woman's problems the same way you handle a child's. She is looking to you for strength when she is weak.

 

[Jitterbug]

"Honey, I know this has to be a really hard time for you, but trust me, I have absolute confidence in your ability to succeed her. And you know what, when this is all over, you aren't going to believe how much you grew as a result of all of this".

That's not beta, that's straight from the player's playbook. It's what you say to make her feel good, while not actually doing anything at all to help.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear EBrace,
Not easy getting tied up with a Country Girl....I once married one,going back to her place was like going back to the hungry thirties...These people were almost completely self sufficient,you would call their small community Hill Billies,they bartered food,equipment and labour,amongst themselves.....Her families weekly groceries,sent out with the mail, would fit in a small cardboard box,15 inch square by six deep,the family once went 18 months without going to Town,60 miles away ...Just be understanding with her,she will be faithful to you I could almost guarantee...Problem is,there is always something missing in a relationship with a Girl having that sort of background.

 

[ebracer05]

Dear Sacara,
Can you elaborate on what you said about there always being something missing in this sort of relationship? I'm curious why you say getting caught up with a country girl isn't easy. Her current situation isn't quite as archaic as you are describing, she lives on a farm and has lots of land, but it's a commercial farm and less than 10 minutes away from me... and I live on the edge of a suburb of a large metropolitan area. They don't grow their own food and have quite a bit of money from her late father's veterinarian business and life insurance, but I suppose visiting her is like stepping back in time, especially since they don't use really any technology other than a refrigerator, washer, drier, oven, and coffee maker.

The biggest issues I have been running in to her the unresolved emotional conflicts she has from her father's early death from cancer and his neglect to fulfill the role of a "good man" in her life. He was a mean spirited person who treated his wife and children very badly. It's amazing that as abusive as he was according to the word of the men and women of their family, even his wife, that his wife still reveres his memory as she does. His obituary is her Bible's bookmark and she talks about him like he's still alive even though he's been deceased for four years. She drives over an hour every Sunday to worship in the church with the cemetery he was buried in and the more comfortable she has become with me, the more she talks of her sadness about his passing. She is always telling me she wishes I could talk to him because I'm one of the only people she knows who could keep up with his intellect. And the last time I saw her, she teared up and said "there are just some days I wish so badly... I could just have one more conversation with that man".

Her mother's allegiance to the man even in his death and the similar allegiance I have seen in her other 2 sisters gives me a good reason to think she will be faithful. However, she is so overburdened with emotional baggage and debt incurred from her father. I have thought about taking her to see a psychologist or a counselor, but the only one I know who I believe functionally understands the proper roles of men and women (ie, would get along with the people on this website) is the counselor I saw for a while, and he is too expensive! I have seen her make progress as we have dated, but I'm reluctant to severely invest myself in to her until I an see whether this represents a temporal change to appease me or a decision to pursue permanent personal growth.

Are these the issues you were alluding to?

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Jitterbug's comment is pretty good honestly. Man, this is a tough spot because you can't fix her problems for her--at some point you have to be there to listen, but just as another poster said, and as my dad always told me, 'women aren't interested in your solutions'.

Men want to find a solution and put our heads together. Women want to vent and talk about their feelings and what's most important to them is that their feelings are verified and justified so that they indeed are 'real' and they feel 'OK' by having them. If you alienate her from her feelings she'll get all turned around in her head, and she won't like what you have to say very much.

I see this with my mother all of the time.

My father does however straight up tell her her illogical faults at times and helps correct her ways of thinking...he doesn't just fold into her...he challenges her...

You were burnt out, in a bad frame of mind when she brought her problems to you. You too were dealing with your own stresses. Forgive the situation, if she brings it up again try Jitterbugs response--but also don't be afraid to say, 'get a grip woman' and help her see what maybe she can't. Honestly to have a real relationship there are going to be issues like this--I have learned from my father that women aren't really interested in your solutions--but if she keeps gnagging and hammering on this problem, you have to give her real feedback. If she's got too many problems and can't handle them and you can't handle them .. well, maybe it's her and not you at that point.

 

[ebracer05]

Buddha, thanks for your insight. Your posts are intelligent and pragmatic. What Jitterbug quoted was actually what I had said. I just said that I thought it sounded beta... I think I tend to judge anything I feel like saying to a girl that is complementary, an expression of my feelings, or anything "nice" like that as AFC/beta because I have a past of pedestalling and supplicating to girls. In the past I would say things like that with an ulterior motive and usually without confidence.

I think there is a big difference between a guy who tells a girl she is beautiful without being able to make eye contact, in a shaky tone of voice, and with poor body language, vs a guy who can say the same thing confidently and because it's what he thinks and he's okay and comfortable with it, not because he thinks it's a key to unlock her pants. That's something I really need to be mindful of, that it isn't bad to say something nice to a girl because I can be an affectionate guy and tend to leave my interactions with my girlfriend feeling like I compromised a part of my masculinity or frame.

I totally agree with you that woman are not interested in your solutions, most of the time. Like I said, they have a cup their daily trickle (or flood) of emotions runs in to and sometimes it spills over. What they want to do is pour some of it on you since you are a man don't have a cup for your emotions. And also like you said, I believe it's fine to allow her to do that, and actually incumbent upon you as a man to be there for her like that, but to a point. A man cannot allow a woman to transform him to a man in to an emotional sounding board or reservoir for her excess emotions. You can absorb some of that from her, but as a man, I think you should also be teaching or leading her to was of dealing with her emotions more responsibly than just unloading them on to you. And besides, if you are a good man, you will not have the time to talk to her on the phone for 1-2 hrs per day, like my brother does nearly every day...

Part of being a man is also knowing and being comfortable with saying no and having respect for your boundaries. Like I said, be there for her, but you have to be able to assess the appropriateness of her emotional catharsis and be ready to tell her to stop, get a grip, and perhaps offer a concise solution, explanation, or something to provide a more substantive scaffolding for Jitterbug's "making her feel better without actually doing anything" explanation.

Lastly, part of being a man that I think goes too infrequently mentioned here is that there are some things you can't fix. In particular, as you said, you can't fix her problems. That's why even though I started editorializing to her about the logical conclusions to what she was saying, I tend not to spend a lot of time trying to "fix" a girl's problems. If she wants my advice, she knows to ask for it. When she does I give it to her and she listens. But I can't change her work dynamics. I can't make her feel better about her friends moving away. I can't provide her an alternative place for her to live or get her out of her situation with her mom and the farm. But I can be the man and if I'm doing that right, it should present a sufficient diversion for her when we're together to lessen the emotion tension of those other problems.

I agree with Pook that one of the reasons "real men" are in such high demand is because women are bored and/or they need a distraction from their life. A real man can provide that. A beta is looking for that distraction and completion in a woman and will probably never find it... at least in what I would consider a woman

Thanks Buddha, Jitterbug, and Scara

+1

 

[Jitterbug]

Yeah that's straight from ebracer's own post.

The player's response is the best, even if you're not a player. You really can't fix a woman's problems, particularly ones involving her family.

I just had to counsel a relative who spent decades fixing problems his wife has with her family. Verdict? He wasted two fortunes, a lot of time & effort, got all stressed out etc. In return, nothing has been fixed and he got not much gratitude back either. It really is a loser's game. Don't play Mr Fix It.