2 Things Are ****ing Up My Game. Need your Help.

[Nu Vision]

I've become aware of 2 things that are negatively affecting my game with women. One is that I have a weird/negative attitude when approaching/talking to them. Let me explain. I feel like when I approach and start talking to a woman I'm putting myself down. This may be because I'm an introvert and not very social. It takes effort for me to approach and I'm kind of not very friendly. For instance, I find it stupid when I'm in a public place and hear people talk about stupid stuff like purses, favorite dishes, non-sense talk.

Does anyone else experience this? Like I swear somethings I find myself thinking along the lines of ... I'm good looking, accomplished, etc ... why should I approach and lower my value? I know this is messed up thinking because so far it has led to me not getting with girls in a long time for different reasons. How have some of you who are introverts kind of forced yourself to talk to people and not see approaching as lowering your value?

Another issue is that I think I've followed the advice to let a girl know right away you are interested wrong or I'm being to quick about it. I recently chatted with a girl on FB. I started talking to her normal, some friendly banter, etc. Minutes in I told her we should go out sometime. She had mentioned before that she likes to experiment new things. I told her we should go out and work on "new experiments". I was hinting at us being together. I get the sense that she thought I was too forward. Not sure. The convo died down after that. This girl is a family member of my brother's wife . So we've talked some before but not much.

 

[gravityeyelids]

I feel you my friend. Myself (and I imagine many people on this forum), I am an introvert. My default state is keeping to myself and i need time to recharge away from people. I also find the common small talk that people do on a daily basis completely nonsensical and arbitrary. At least you're coming from a place of higher value.

However, keep this in mind. Social intelligence is very very valuable from a mating perspective. Especially in this day in age where things like assault and murder are both illegal and rare for the common person, often times dominance is established mainly by the man who is more socially in tune. This is not an age in which we club each other over the head or dual with pistols to fight over women. In many ways, embarassing another man is almost worse than hitting him. Sure things may come to blows now and then, but a woman often chooses far before that point based on how socially respected a man is, both within his own social circle, and within the group of a public place, like a bar or club.

You simply have to accept that socializing is a necessary evil in getting girls and that it is a powerful, powerful weapon. Think of it as a skill that can be improved upon, because it is. Especially for introverts, there is a long period of time to become good at socializing and recognizing social cues. Stuff that extroverts recognize naturally, we have to actually learn and put into practice. The up side of things is that introverts are commonly more analytical and focused when it comes to these types of things, so with enough practice you will learn to "see the matrix" and be able to pick apart what is going on in any given social interaction and exploit it to your benefit. This seems Machiavellian, because it is. With enough practice you will be able to walk into a room and begin to pull the unseen strings that most people don't even know exist, and have people (read:girls) eating out of the palm of your hands while the "extroverted" people wonder what the hell is going on and blow themselves out.

A big part is faking it until you make it. You will be uncomfortable at first but after a while the anxiety will fade and you will learn to calibrate properly until you seem even more natural than the "natural" extroverts.

And yea, the "new experiences" thing was a bit too forward and probably came off as a bit creepy in her mind for a guy whom she just started talking to, seeing as how "experimenting" often has a sexual connotation. Oh and NEVER ask a cute girl out on Facebook. As a matter of fact, dont even be friending her or talking to her at ALL on FB until you've banged her. If you're hollaring at her via FB chat that puts you right in with all the orbiters.

 

[Nu Vision]

I feel you my friend. Myself (and I imagine many people on this forum), I am an introvert. My default state is keeping to myself and i need time to recharge away from people. I also find the common small talk that people do on a daily basis completely nonsensical and arbitrary. At least you're coming from a place of higher value.

However, keep this in mind. Social intelligence is very very valuable from a mating perspective. Especially in this day in age where things like assault and murder are both illegal and rare for the common person, often times dominance is established mainly by the man who is more socially in tune. This is not an age in which we club each other over the head or dual with pistols to fight over women. In many ways, embarassing another man is almost worse than hitting him. Sure things may come to blows now and then, but a woman often chooses far before that point based on how socially respected a man is, both within his own social circle, and within the group of a public place, like a bar or club.

You simply have to accept that socializing is a necessary evil in getting girls and that it is a powerful, powerful weapon. Think of it as a skill that can be improved upon, because it is. Especially for introverts, there is a long period of time to become good at socializing and recognizing social cues. Stuff that extroverts recognize naturally, we have to actually learn and put into practice. The up side of things is that introverts are commonly more analytical and focused when it comes to these types of things, so with enough practice you will learn to "see the matrix" and be able to pick apart what is going on in any given social interaction and exploit it to your benefit. This seems Machiavellian, because it is. With enough practice you will be able to walk into a room and begin to pull the unseen strings that most people don't even know exist, and have people (read:girls) eating out of the palm of your hands while the "extroverted" people wonder what the hell is going on and blow themselves out.

A big part is faking it until you make it. You will be uncomfortable at first but after a while the anxiety will fade and you will learn to calibrate properly until you seem even more natural than the "natural" extroverts.

And yea, the "new experiences" thing was a bit too forward and probably came off as a bit creepy in her mind for a guy whom she just started talking to, seeing as how "experimenting" often has a sexual connotation. Oh and NEVER ask a cute girl out on Facebook. As a matter of fact, dont even be friending her or talking to her at ALL on FB until you've banged her. If you're hollaring at her via FB chat that puts you right in with all the orbiters.

You make a very good point. Ask any guy when was the last time he got into a fist fight and more likely than not he will say he doesn't remember or that it was a long time. Being socially dominant has become increasingly important. Looking at it from this angle will push me to become better at it.

The advice is to talk to all people one encounters in everyday life and make small talk with them. I've been doing that more lately but again I often start thinking in my head what we are talking about is a load of crap. I'll have to fake it until I make it like you suggest and just go through with it.

It was definitely a mistake to chat her up on FB. I now see that. So lesson learned. I think that I've gotten away too much from the building comfort component of game. Because I was very beta before I may be trying too hard to not be that way again and shooting myself in the foot. A girl needs comfort and emotional connection and that takes some time.

What approach has worked for you guys better: Talking to girls in a friendly way and sort of putting them in the friend zone at first where you are not really pushing space boundaries or doing much kino or the opposite of being direct from the get go, letting her know you are interested verbally/physically?

Thanks for the advice gravity.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

I have these problems to, but I don't consider myself an introvert...somewhere in between intro and exo. I do hate engaging in small talk of any kind. I get nervous overthink about what to say or how to end a coversation. Holding these thoughts in ill just cloud your mind circuits just be you and say to yourself "ahhh what the hell" I had a nice conversation with a grandmother at Starbucks for an hour and a half. Didn't even know that much time passed

 

[Nu Vision]

I'm not really 100% introvert either. I like going out. Just don't like having to put myself out there and talking to people. In my experience, many people act cold when you try to talk to them. Women especially. Not all of course but many and so I don't like approaching. You can sense that they feel like they have higher value.

Another question: What's the proper way to look at women when walking outside to get their attention. I always feel weird doing this at the gym or when walking towards a chick. I read once that it's dominant to get into stared owns and see who turns away first. The advice is to be friendly and talk to everybody and say hello as you pass strangers. A guy at my job does this and I find it weird and clownish. I don't know.

 

[gravityeyelids]

I'm not really 100% introvert either. I like going out. Just don't like having to put myself out there and talking to people. In my experience, many people act cold when you try to talk to them. Women especially. Not all of course but many and so I don't like approaching. You can sense that they feel like they have higher value.

Another question: What's the proper way to look at women when walking outside to get their attention. I always feel weird doing this at the gym or when walking towards a chick. I read once that it's dominant to get into stared owns and see who turns away first. The advice is to be friendly and talk to everybody and say hello as you pass strangers. A guy at my job does this and I find it weird and clownish. I don't know.

Approaching is not like all those PUA sites make it out to be. Truth be told, cold approaching random strangers in a public place is kind of awkward and lame. It's good to kill your approach anxiety by doing this...but as far as getting leads that will pan out, it's garbage. Ideally you want to at least do some type of indirect opener for girls you've never met during day game. For example..let's say that you see a girl at the mall that is super cute. One way would be to simply approach her when she's at a bench or whatever drinking her mocha. But that's kinda awkward and sets the frame that you're trying to get her attention and get something from her.

What is preferable in my mind is another way: while shopping at JCpenny's or whatever, make it so that you two happen to get within a few feet of each other (act like you're shopping), and then simply say something like "hey, do you mind giving me your opinion on this?" 99.9999% of girls like giving feedback on clothing or related things and it's a completely natural, laidback way to approach a girl in public. You can both play it off as if you just wanted an opinion and leave it at that. However, if you two hit it off and there's some attraction there, it's simple simple simple to chat her up for a few minutes about whatever and proceed to a number exchange or even an insta-date. Whereas if you flat out, blatantly approach a girl at a bench or whatever, she goes "oh crap, this guy is coming up to hit on me..." even if she thinks you're cute...you're putting her in a more awkward position. Girls always love when things "just happen" and it leads to romance. Like "oh i was at the store and it just happened that this cute guy and I started talking and we ended up meeting up". Ideally, you should make it so that she doesn't even FEEL like you were approaching her. it "just happened".

Now night/bar game is a bit different. And frankly it's a giant trap. You are far, far, far better off meeting girls through friends or finding a common connection rather than going up to random girls. If you're going to approach randos, forget the idea of an "approach". Don't chase them, let them come to you. Rather than roaming around with your beer out in front of you like a fvcking shield, like 90% of the chodes do.... simply post up at the bar with your buddy and enjoy yourself. Girls will come to the bar to order and then it's very natural way to start conversation while you're both ordering or drinking your drink. Far better than cold approaching tables where their guards are way up.

Oh another thing people don't realize for bar randoms: GAME THE GUYS. Find groups of people and chat the guys up and ignore the girls for a bit. If you have the respect of the guys in the group, then: A) You've eliminated obstacles or AMOGs, B) You've been accepted into their 'circle' which bumps your status and C) you set yourself apart from all the other chodes by not rushing up to the hot girls with your tongue hanging out. And HEY, maybe you'll meet a cool group of guys that you can party with and next time you're downtown and you run into them, then you're a bada$$ because you now have like a dozen people at the bar you know.

As far as eye contact., Very good question. I'd say in general, don't be afraid to look her right in the eyes. It's very rare that a girl will lock eyes with you in a direct stare longer than a second or two before lookinng away or down at her phone. Don't be staring at her from like 20 feet away, but once you get closer to her, definitely lock eyes and smile slightly. 90% of the time (as long as you're not completely ugly and fat or super creepy looking) girls will probably flash a smile at you or say hey.

If you get those rare girls that lock eyes with you the entire time and truly eye-fvck you and give a flirty smile, then OPEN that girl immediately. If a girl doesn't break eye contact shes probably 1) horny, 2) just finished working out, 3) into you, or 4) all of the above. If you can open do it.

If you're feeling yourself, lightly touch her elbow to stop her and gently run your hand down her arm to her hand and grasp it while you open her. This needs to be done with a direct, confident opener. If you can't think of anything better, then "i thought you looked interesting and I'd be kicking myself afterwards if i didnt stop and meet you. I'm _____."

 

[Nu Vision]

Gravity,

Very good points.

To me it's good to know how to start conversation with people for instances when you meet someone on your day to day life and it's natural to start conversation with them like if you attend a work training and happen to sit next to a hot girl from any department. It's natural and would almost feel awkward to not say hi and ask what department she's from, how long she's been at the company, blah blah blah.

I agree that girls know you are hitting on them right away especially here in NY. I feel guys' game must be at higher level here compared to other cities because girls are very socially minded and have a fine tuned radar.

I once decided I was going to go to a Barnes and nobles that's in a mall close to my house to strike up conversation with random chicks there. I ended up going shopping for new clothes instead. The whole act of going somewhere with that intention felt weird and robotic/creepy.

When I'm walking ok the streets and a cute girl is walking towards me I like to look at them when they are getting closed but it's not a good feeling when they pass by without looking or noticing you.

My game plan moving forward will be this ... let me know what ya think.

Go out alone or with friends and have fun

Put myself in situations where women will be in and look for interest signals. If a girl looks at me I'll approach her or the group. I like the sitting at the bar move where you let girls come to order drinks and chat her up.

I'll talk to girls in a normal way just being friendly and not showing interest at first. My first indication of interest will be to say we should hang out and ask for the #.

When I take her out I will remain a mystery and limit compliments. I'll be fun and if the situation dictate will make a move on her.

Another thing ... not sure if this happens to yall. But my normal state or facial expression seems to be of someone who's mad. I always go back to that. I catch myself always with this face. I think I got to lighten up and don't take the world so seriously.

 

[BrainDamage92]

I dont think youre an introvert, its more like:

Who is she to approach her is she some kinda bigshot? *but u want that pvssy* Why shall I be nice and make compliments who is she somekinda bigshot? *but you want that pvssy* Who is she to talk down to me like Im some random idiot? *but you want that pvssy* Why am I wasting my precious time trying to explain to this mentally handicapped thingy that shee could be doing much better things with her mouth rather than talk **** *couse you want that pvssu* etc etc

 

[Nu Vision]

Brain damage,

What you say makes a lot of sense. Just need a to get done because bottom line is I want that pvssy. Lol

 

[hockeyfreak79]

A big part is faking it until you make it. <------- Gravity nailed it.

Pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations can help you grow leaps and bounds. In my 20's I leaned more towards the intro side but still got plenty of p*ssy. As I became more self aware & started to consider myself in the middle, it's refered to as Ambivert.

It sounds like you might be struggling with outcome dependence & fear of rejection. Give less f*cks about the outcome & just have a good time! Google it if you need too.


As for your hard face (like some woman with resting b*tch face, my ole favorite! when I see b*tch like that I f*ck'em until they smile.) I'm the same way, I typically revert to comedy. Mix it up alittle bit, not dancing monkey but funny topics etc, that way you are smiling having fun showing off dimples if you have them. B*tches love dimples, don't ask me why I haven't a clue.

I've married & f*cked many intoverted b*cthes, I prefer extro chicks but IME they end up being pains in the ass. I've used it as an ice breaker many times, especially with "shy" broads, tease them, bust on them they will eat it up! Psychology 101 etc.

The key is less f*cks given plain & simple, you'll get there some day you just have to pratice it.

 

[Nu Vision]

Hockeyfreak,

Yea man. I've been rejected a lot in the last 12 months. I don't go for 5 or 6s always go for real good looking girls who have many options and I've messed up in some areas. Game in NY is hard. The Latinas always know what you up to and white girls I feel don't pay us Latin guys attention here. It's different in places like Rhode Island where I've gone and caught girls looking at me because they are not used to seeing many Hispanics over there.

I'm short guy 5'5 and that's on my mind when I approach. I think I'm good looking though but I don't catch girls looking at me. Sometimes I do but usually fat ugly girls lol.

I just gotta keep trying and not let past defeats prevent future success. Outcome independence .