Do you open the car door for girls?

[sevbucmash]

By the way, if you open the door for another girl, your chick will twist on you. Especially if the other girl is hotter than her.

 

[Clockwerk50]

The need to control is a feminine trait, controlling others is fear of abandonment.

This is also a covert contract, if you were in MRP, you should know that: If I do all of these, I get control, therefore I'll get X. Doesn't work like that my friend.

Control isn't about fear, it’s about influence. It's not manipulation but creating a dynamic where she wants to follow. Control comes from choice, not coercion. A man with options doesn't make covert contracts; he leads and naturally attracts. You see control as fear, I see it as direction. You see details as submission, I see them as tools of influence. Just because something doesn't fit your approach doesn't make it wrong, it just means you don't understand how it works.

Again, details are everything. Think of a concert, monster truck jam, or political rally —it's not just the message but how it's delivered. The music, lighting, fireworks, and symbols create an atmosphere that overwhelms the senses, making people feel rather than think. Seduction works the same way. The right cologne, a glass of wine, an oil massage, candlelight, opening the door for her - these details draw her in and keep her there. People don't fall for logic; they fall for feeling.

Details aren't covert contracts; they aren't done with an expectation but to shape the experience itself.

PS:Many traditional masculine ideals emphasize decisiveness, leadership, and control over one’s environment. It is not a female trait.

 

[Sophisticator]

Another covert contract, If I do this, I'll be liked.

That's your covert contract, pal.

I don't have to behave different from how I prefer to behave in order to get liked. I'm doing just fine.

 

[Sophisticator]

Watch a couple tango. The man leads. The woman is the flashy bling accessorizing his lead as she follows him. The result is mesmerizing.

Not just that. If you actually tango, you learn that as the lead, what you do is that you create a space for the follower to shine. Tango is actually a great way to test your relationship dynamics. You cannot lead if she doesn't follow, she cannot shine if you don't lead properly.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Me and my girl had a row because I didn’t open her the car door. Well, I panicked. I opened mine, then swam to the surface

Is your name Ted Kennedy?

 

[Sophisticator]

Control isn't about fear, it’s about influence. It's not manipulation but creating a dynamic where she wants to follow. Control comes from choice, not coercion. A man with options doesn't make covert contracts; he leads and naturally attracts. You see control as fear, I see it as direction. You see details as submission, I see them as tools of influence. Just because something doesn't fit your approach doesn't make it wrong, it just means you don't understand how it works.

I think the guy you're talking to sees any type of behaviour different from his own as not being as masculine as he purports to be. And any man who treats women with respect as 'servile'.

You can't win an argument with bottom feeders.

By the way, if you open the door for another girl, your chick will twist on you. Especially if the other girl is hotter than her.

That's why you should move on from dating insecure 'chicks' and move on to women who don't feel threatened by their more beautiful peers because they know you're not that shallow.

 

[BeExcellent]

Not just that. If you actually tango, you learn that as the lead, what you do is that you create a space for the follower to shine. Tango is actually a great way to test your relationship dynamics. You cannot lead if she doesn't follow, she cannot shine if you don't lead properly.

Precisely. I tango.

 

[Sophisticator]

Precisely. I tango.

Anyone who tangoes knows it takes two. If someone tends to be a good dancer, most of that dynamic also goes into the personal relationship dynamic.
Most of my lovers in the last decades were dancers. Elegant, feminine, enjoying their role in the dynamic.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I think the guy you're talking to sees any type of behaviour different from his own as not being as masculine as he purports to be. And any man who treats women with respect as 'servile'.

You can't win an argument with bottom feeders.

There’s a Buddhist saying: ‘The identity we create for ourselves is the root of our suffering.’ When someone becomes too attached to a rigid idea of who they are or how things must be, anything outside of that feels like a threat. But sometimes, what we resist the most is exactly what we need to understand.

 

[Sega Genesis]

So guys, if I'm envisioning this correctly, opening the car door for a lady (let's say on date) would require her to, once they reach the destination, her not exiting the vehicle but rather remaining in the passenger seat waiting for you to walk over to her side and open the door for her?

If so, it would seem so awkward to me doing that, like what am I, some entitled princess or something. Lol

I'm ALL for chivalry and appreciate a man holding the door (of a building) for me to enter first or sometimes pulling out my chair as we're about to sit down at a restaurant but...

Unless my getting out of the car myself presents a danger like if I'm wearing super high heels and the car is parked on a sleep slope or cliff where I could fall, I cannot imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for my boyfriend or a date to walk over to my side and open the door for me!

If we're attending the theatre or dining at a high-end restaurant, the valet is typically the person who would open the car door for me.

Honestly, if my boyfriend did, I would just feel silly. Realistically, I would have already opened the door myself and exited the vehicle by the time he reached my side anyway!

I dunno maybe I'm weird, it just seems so contrived to me, right up there with bringing me flowers to a first date to impress me.

I'm not a "feminist" but some of these dating rituals just sound silly in today's dating environment, IMO!

 

[Sophisticator]

There’s a Buddhist saying: ‘The identity we create for ourselves is the root of our suffering.’ When someone becomes too attached to a rigid idea of who they are or how things must be, anything outside of that feels like a threat. But sometimes, what we resist the most is exactly what we need to understand.

I agree.

There's also a saying by Mark Twain: “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

 

[Sophisticator]

Unless my getting out of the car myself presents a danger like if I'm wearing super high heels and the car is parked on a sleep slope or cliff where I could fall, I cannot imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for my boyfriend or a date to walk over to my side and open the door for me!

If we're attending the theatre or dining at a high-end restaurant, the valet is typically the person who would open the car door for me.

Let's say you do go to an event in a gown and heels.
Do you prefer to be walked by your date to the car and him opening the car door for you and making sure your gown and coat are inside before closing the door and walking around to the driver side, or him just sitting impatiently behind the wheel scanning his phone while waiting for you to get out of the house and walk to the car by yourself on your heels, yank open the door yourself and plonking yourself in the passenger seat while he's drumming his fingers on the steering wheel, probably annoyed that you didn't have a valet to open the door for you?

Sure, it's nice if there's a valet to open your door for you, but if there isn't?

And how about having to go into a less affluent neighbourhood where carjacking is a common occurrence, do you also feel it's unnecessary that your man exits the vehicle before you and walks around the car to let you out safely?

You don't need to be a bodyguard for a woman, but some chivalry had more purposes than just being polite.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Let's say you do go to an event in a gown and heels.
Do you prefer to be walked by your date to the car and him opening the car door for you and making sure your gown and coat are inside before closing the door and walking around to the driver side, or him just sitting impatiently behind the wheel scanning his phone while waiting for you to get out of the house and walk to the car by yourself on your heels, yank open the door yourself and plonking yourself in the passenger seat while he's drumming his fingers on the steering wheel, probably annoyed that you didn't have a valet to open the door for you?

This scenario is a bit different from what I posted and yes to what's bolded. Definitely!

In fact even if I wasnt in a gown, us leaving the house together (or wherever we were) and him opening the car door for me first, I would appreciate!

Under normal circumstances, I just couldn't imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for him to walk to my side to open the door once we reached the destination. That's all.

I've seen it happen which is why I presented that scenario.

All in all I really value politeness and good manners. I'm from back east where such things were taught to young men at a very early age.

My brothers are all very polite and "protective" I think women enjoy that feeling - of being protected and "safe" from harm; it's kind of a primal thing imo.

 

[New_Journey]

Control isn't about fear, it’s about influence.

You don't influence somebody by controlling that person, if you resort to control it means they don't follow you willingly.

A man with options doesn't make covert contracts; he leads and naturally attracts.

Exactly, leaders don't need to control anybody.

I see them as tools of influence.

Brother, you are using those tools expecting something (control, they'll want more, they will come back to have fun, they will keep fvcking me, whatever you wanna call it) that by definition is a covert contract. If I do X, I will get Y. If they don't know you're doing it to get control, then the other party is not aware, then the contract is covertly, you should give because you want to, not expecting anything in return.

Just because something doesn't fit your approach

You are 100% on that, that will never be my approach.

The right cologne, a glass of wine, an oil massage, candlelight, opening the door for her - these details draw her in and keep her there.

Or maybe she has baby rabbies and wants to settle down with you or they love the amazing services you provide and not for who you really are.

People don't fall for logic; they fall for feeling.

So you are saying, if I do all of these things "The right cologne, a glass of wine, an oil massage, candlelight, opening the door for her", she will fall for me. Holy fvck man, you are full of convert contracts.

they aren't done with an expectation

You just contradicted yourself, you said, you do all of that to get control, for her to fall for you, you have the expectation of doing all of that to get control, therefore, she will fall for you.

That's your covert contract, pal.

I don't have to behave different from how I prefer to behave in order to get liked. I'm doing just fine.

This resonated with you, because this is actually you, you do all of those things to be liked.

Not just that. If you actually tango, you learn that as the lead, what you do is that you create a space for the follower to shine. Tango is actually a great way to test your relationship dynamics. You cannot lead if she doesn't follow, she cannot shine if you don't lead properly.

In order to dance tango the follower needs to willingly follow you, you don't need any tools to make her follow you, just like seduction, simple as dancing.

I think the guy you're talking to sees any type of behaviour different from his own as not being as masculine

100% agree, using tools to get something is simp behavior and I don't see it as masculine. That's the same as buying gift, so she will have the good feeling, I will have control over her emotions and she will fall for me, same $hit, different name.

Precisely. I tango.

Do men have to use any tools to get you to follow dancing Tango?

were dancers. Elegant, feminine, enjoying their role in the dynamic.

Those are the best women.

There’s a Buddhist saying: ‘The identity we create for ourselves is the root of our suffering

But isn't your identity the guy who uses tools to get control? That's definitely not healthy.

So guys, if I'm envisioning this correctly, opening the car door for a lady (let's say on date) would require her to, once they reach the destination, her not exiting the vehicle but rather remaining in the passenger seat waiting for you to walk over to her side and open the door for her?

If so, it would seem so awkward to me doing that, like what am I, some entitled princess or something. Lol

I'm ALL for chivalry and appreciate a man holding the door (of a building) for me to enter first or sometimes pulling out my chair as we're about to sit down at a restaurant but...

Unless my getting out of the car myself presents a danger like if I'm wearing super high heels and the car is parked on a sleep slope or cliff where I could fall, I cannot imagine intentionally sitting in the car waiting for my boyfriend or a date to walk over to my side and open the door for me!

If we're attending the theatre or dining at a high-end restaurant, the valet is typically the person who would open the car door for me.

Honestly, if my boyfriend did, I would just feel silly. Realistically, I would have already opened the door myself and exited the vehicle by the time he reached my side anyway!

I dunno maybe I'm weird, it just seems so contrived to me, right up there with bringing me flowers to a first date to impress me.

I'm not a "feminist" but some of these dating rituals just sound silly in today's dating environment, IMO!

Those things are great, they created intimacy, my only problem is doing it for a random chick who hasn't earn it, or using it as a tool to get something.

Its like you having sex with a guy who hasn't earn it or having sex to get control, which many women do. So it is a female trait, masculine men don't need any tools to get something, that's like saying I'm a robot, let go to my garage and get some tools to use to get control.

@Clockwerk50 you are exactly what women do to get control by using sex, but with servant behaviors.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Those things are great, they created intimacy, my only problem is doing it for a random chick who hasn't earn it, or using it as a tool to get something.

^^I agree @New_Journey (underlined) it's what I meant by "contrived." It feels forced, disingenuous, manipulative sometimes even.

Same with buying me flowers on a first date. Many women see this as a BIG plus and a man knows this versus something done genuinely from his heart.

His goal is to impress and personally I'm not into that type of impressing.. Not in those types of ways. They seem phony to me.

I'm either impressed by his presence or I'm not. I'm either attracted to him, his being, his essence and energy or I'm not.

 

[zekko]

Yes, I let them sit down first at dinner, give them roses, escort them to romantic places, pick them up in my car smelling nice and super clean, lead them on the dance floor, wear the clothes and colours they like, light up their cigarette/blunt, bring gifts, open the champagne, fresh haircut, etc.

Give them roses? I won't even give them roses for Valentine's Day anymore. I'll give them something else, but not roses.

I will open a door to an establishment, if I happen to reach it first. If she gets there first, she'll usually open the door for me. If there's a lobby, this means there are two doors and we take turns holding the door for each other. I won't pull out the chair at a restaurant, although we usually prefer to sit in booths where possible. Car doors, never. As I said, used to do it when I was younger, but those were different times.

 

[Clockwerk50]

You don't influence somebody by controlling that person, if you resort to control it means they don't follow you willingly.


Exactly, leaders don't need to control anybody.


Brother, you are using those tools expecting something (control, they'll want more, they will come back to have fun, they will keep fvcking me, whatever you wanna call it) that by definition is a covert contract. If I do X, I will get Y. If they don't know you're doing it to get control, then the other party is not aware, then the contract is covertly, you should give because you want to, not expecting anything in return.


You are 100% on that, that will never be my approach.


Or maybe she has baby rabbies and wants to settle down with you or they love the amazing services you provide and not for who you really are.


So you are saying, if I do all of these things "The right cologne, a glass of wine, an oil massage, candlelight, opening the door for her", she will fall for me. Holy fvck man, you are full of convert contracts.


You just contradicted yourself, you said, you do all of that to get control, for her to fall for you, you have the expectation of doing all of that to get control, therefore, she will fall for you.


This resonated with you, because this is actually you, you do all of those things to be liked.


In order to dance tango the follower needs to willingly follow you, you don't need any tools to make her follow you, just like seduction, simple as dancing.


100% agree, using tools to get something is simp behavior and I don't see it as masculine. That's the same as buying gift, so she will have the good feeling, I will have control over her emotions and she will fall for me, same $hit, different name.


Do men have to use any tools to get you to follow dancing Tango?


Those are the best women.


But isn't your identity the guy who uses tools to get control? That's definitely not healthy.


Those things are great, they created intimacy, my only problem is doing it for a random chick who hasn't earn it, or using it as a tool to get something.

Its like you having sex with a guy who hasn't earn it or having sex to get control, which many women do. So it is a female trait, masculine men don't need any tools to get something, that's like saying I'm a robot, let go to my garage and get some tools to use to get control.

@Clockwerk50 you are exactly what women do to get control by using sex, but with servant behaviors.

I think you’re stuck on the idea that any intentional action to shape an outcome is a “covert contract” which is flawed. Influence always involves some level of control - whether through charisma, emotional connection, or setting the right atmosphere. You’re also equating effort with desperation, which is just posturing.

Lastly, I do these things because I want to, without expectations, and I’ve already explained why they work psychologically. I even put a disclaimer in my first post about when they should be used - when the woman is already intrigued and desires me. How could it be a covert contract if she already likes me? By your definition, even making eye contact with a beautiful woman is a covert contract because, heaven forbid, I might hope she looks back.

By your logic, any action with an expected outcome is manipulation. Does that mean a businessman making a deal, a leader inspiring people, or even you arguing your point is a covert contract? Expecting a result doesn’t make something weak - it makes it effective.

Leaders don’t control with force (unless you are a dictator); they guide, set the tone, and create an environment where people want to follow. That’s not manipulation - it’s understanding psychology. And let’s be real, whether in business, politics, or seduction, the ones who master the details are the ones who get results. If ignoring them was truly better, the most successful men wouldn’t be the ones carefully shaping experiences - they’d be the ones doing nothing.

I think you may need to take a step back and re-read masculine-feminine energy and covert contracts since you’ve got it all wrong.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Give them roses? I won't even give them roses for Valentine's Day anymore. I'll give them something else, but not roses.

I will open a door to an establishment, if I happen to reach it first. If she gets there first, she'll usually open the door for me. If there's a lobby, this means there are two doors and we take turns holding the door for each other. I won't pull out the chair at a restaurant, although we usually prefer to sit in booths where possible. Car doors, never. As I said, used to do it when I was younger, but those were different times.

It works for me. Obviously, I don’t do it all the time - only on special nights and not so often that it becomes predictable. And yeah, I give a rose. It’s $6.99 at the grocery store, not exactly a grand sacrifice. Plus, I’ve already said it only works when she’s intrigued and desires me. I’m not just handing out gestures for nothing - I do it because I like the girl and she likes me back.

I have receipts. If you want I’ll PM you.

 

[New_Journey]

when the woman is already intrigued and desires me.

So you are investing a lot of money, time, effort, nice dinners and flowers for girls who only are " intrigued by you or desired you" ? With whom you haven't had sex yet? LOL alright Champ, you got this.

 

[BeExcellent]

In order to dance tango the follower needs to willingly follow you, you don't need any tools to make her follow you, just like seduction, simple as dancing.

Do men have to use any tools to get you to follow dancing Tango?

Tango has well defined roles. Each partner must know their roles.

There are no tools required other than a knowledge of the dance and an ability of the man to lead and the woman to follow the lead; the woman CANNOT lead in tango.