Compliance vs initiation

[FlexpertHamilton]

Seems like a divisive topic that I know has been discussed here before but it's almost 2025 and it's probably time for some more thoughts on this.

For the sake of discussion, let's talk about this within the context of relationships (FWB, LTR, marriage, whatever) instead of the pre/post 1st date range where a man has only just met a woman and is trying to gauge her IL. Yawn.

Let's also define what each term means, if anyone disagrees with the definitions then share your own.

Compliance is an element of submissiveness, basically her agreeing to whatever you tell her to do, not giving any resistance or pushback, basically making it as easy as possible for you to lead. Eg, sticking to your plans and not being late or trying to change things last minute, it can also mean things like doing favors you ask of her, or a myriad of other things that may be more subtle.

Initiation basically means any attempt by her to invest in you/chase, whether it's starting a conversation, asking for your plans to setup a meetup/date, initating sex, texting first, asking for a serious relationship, etc

Like most, I've always thought initiation was more important, but I'm starting to think otherwise. In part because some women are genuinely passive and so waiting around expecting them to initiate is pretty gay. Of course, initiation is important to some degree - as a basic test of her interest you can ask yourself: if i stopped contacting her to meet up, would she reach out to me and set it up, or would the relationship fizzle out? However, initiation isn't enough, as initiation without compliance isn't very indicative. In fact, if the woman is doing a lot of the initiating but not complying, she is probably controlling the relationship.

Agreeableness or "submissiveness" (a word I try to avoid using) is huge and I think compliance, being a major element of this, is something men might be overlooking.

 

[plumber]

it depends on the man. what does he need/want.

when we say low confidence it will bring lots of negative ideas. confidence comes from results. some men never invest enough in failure to get success, results in low confidence. reasons are many and almost NEVER the fault of the man. albeit he is the only one that can improve the situation. usually needs a coach of some sort, think Mr. Miyagi, Uncle Sam, Professor, Sometimes even a father or friend.

man with low confidence wants/needs the woman to initiate because it feels good. this is normal and expected.

man with high confidence will be very ok with only submissiveness.

low confidence man is more likely to get into a ltr, because the girl needs to have high enough interest level to initiate. any woman will initiate when the interest level is very high.

high confidence man is more likely to get much more women with medium interest and often miss out on the "good one" as they are busy with the hot mediums.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

For the sake of discussion, let's talk about this within the context of relationships (FWB, LTR, marriage, whatever) instead of the pre/post 1st date range where a man has only just met a woman and is trying to gauge her IL. Yawn.

In my opinion, it's not Compliance versus Initiation, but Compliance and Initiation.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

In my opinion, it's not Compliance versus Initiation, but Compliance and Initiation.

Of course - though I do wonder if some women simply don't initiate. Some women are simply stubbornly passive, or perhaps more "traditional" and expect the man to lead completely, including intitiation or chasing, which isn't always a bad thing. The point of this is more to determine which one is more important for determining high IL, since there's a lot of variability even if they're doing both.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Some women are simply stubbornly passive, or perhaps more "traditional" and expect the man to lead completely, including intitiation.

Well, that's not 'traditional'. That's just lazy. I'm not carrying when I'm leading.

 

[parabellum]

Of course - though I do wonder if some women simply don't initiate. Some women are simply stubbornly passive, or perhaps more "traditional" and expect the man to lead completely, including intitiation or chasing, which isn't always a bad thing. The point of this is more to determine which one is more important for determining high IL, since there's a lot of variability even if they're doing both.

It seems to me, that some women believe they are initiating by just finding moments of intentional proximity.

 

[The Duke]

The best women I've ever been with were both compliant and would initiate somewhat. There are times she needs to be one or the other. Knowing when to comply or initiate is a great womanly skill.

In my early years of dating I ended up with girls that would initiate often. I think my ego liked the idea of them pursuing me. Later on, I realized they weren't the most compliant as the relationship progressed. They were harder to lead, not as likely to yield. I enjoyed these types for the most part, but was never proud to call them mine. These will try to pay half when doing dating activities. They will usually have higher paying jobs as well. They won't be as likely to have kids either. Seemed like they were more apt to be a borderline/bipolar.

As my confidence grew and I got better at understanding women,(@plumber mentioned this and he's right) I got with more submissive women and thats really what I prefer. They are far easier to lead, more willing, and have a stronger desire to be yours. These types will be more likely to think you hung the moon. They are more nurturing and supporting of their man. The drawback is they are a little more needy, insecure, or jealous and you will probably pay the bill at least 80% of the time. Not every man will get along with these types. If you aren't strong enough, her crazy will come out. These types want an old school traditional relationship as far as male and female roles go.

The girl I date now does initiate from time to time when she feels she needs to, but is mainly submissive. I met her when she asked me to dance(initiated). If you ever want to see how submissive a girl is and how willing she is to let a man lead, just take her out dancing. The women that can't follow your lead on the dance floor, won't follow your lead in a relationship either. She initiates when it comes to cooking meals and always gets all the food to cook with. I pay for 90% of what we do(Concerts, Trips, Restaurants, Drinks.) I have fixed a few things on her car, but she is totally capable of changing her own oil. I always am very cognizant of her desire to submit to me and respect that. We both can be in our natural states( traditional gender roles where man leads/woman follows) and it works really good. I don't have to ague with her. She takes what I say as gospel and values my experience as we are there is a significant age gap.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

If you ever want to see how submissive a girl is and how willing she is to let a man lead, just take her out dancing. The women that can't follow your lead on the dance floor, won't follow your lead in a relationship either.

Exactly. That's why two of my three lovers are former ballerinas who enjoy dancing the tango with me.