The decision of whether to escalate: One of many problems us men face

[GoodMan32]

I watched an old episode of Yellowstone where Jimmy went on a first date with a woman. At the end of the date, the woman says to Jimmy "Now's the hard part. If you don't kiss her, yet she wants you to, she's going to think you don't like her. But if you kiss her, yet she's not ready, you have another problem on your hands. I'd hate to be in your position."

Even though it's a show, the same thing is true in real life. Something as simple as making a decision of whether to kiss the woman at the end of the first date can make or break us.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Personally. Unless the date was really bad, at a minimum. the girls get a kiss at the end of the first date. At a minimum

 

[GoodMan32]

Personally. Unless the date was really bad, at a minimum. the girls get a kiss at the end of the first date. At a minimum

Interestingly, on every first date I went on at the ages of 20-21, I remember kissing her.

Yet on my most recent 2 dates (one of which was at age 32, one of which was at age 26), I didn't kiss her (nor did I even offer). I think the scarcity mindset was at play (of why I didn't even offer a kiss on my 2 most recent dates). By 26 (and certainly by 32), I was so accustomed to my backup method of getting a woman, I didn't want to risk scaring away the rare free broads who've shown interest in me these past 7 years. Yet even without potentially scaring her away with a kiss, I still failed to get a 2nd date with either woman. Just my luck.

Edited to add: Upon further reflection, I remember a mere one broad when I was 20 refusing to kiss me on a date. Still, every other broad I had a date with when I was 20-21 kissed me.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Interestingly, on every first date I went on at the ages of 20-21, I remember kissing her.

Yet on my most recent 2 dates (one of which was at age 32, one of which was at age 26), I didn't kiss her (nor did I even offer). I think the scarcity mindset was at play (of why I didn't even offer a kiss on my 2 most recent dates). By 26 (and certainly by 32), I was so accustomed to my backup method of getting a woman, I didn't want to risk scaring away the rare free broads who've shown interest in me these past 7 years. Yet even without potentially scaring her away with a kiss, I still failed to get a 2nd date with either woman. Just my luck.

‘scaring away’? If a girl goes on a date with you, she’s not looking for a platonic friend. Dates are meant for exploring romantic/sexual interest. If she’s into you. She wants you to kiss her. If she’s not into you, ‘scaring her away’ with a kiss is irrelevant. As she’s not interested regardless.

 

[corrector]

Interestingly, on every first date I went on at the ages of 20-21, I remember kissing her.

Yet on my most recent 2 dates (one of which was at age 32, one of which was at age 26), I didn't kiss her (nor did I even offer). I think the scarcity mindset was at play (of why I didn't even offer a kiss on my 2 most recent dates). By 26 (and certainly by 32), I was so accustomed to my backup method of getting a woman, I didn't want to risk scaring away the rare free broads who've shown interest in me these past 7 years. Yet even without potentially scaring her away with a kiss, I still failed to get a 2nd date with either woman. Just my luck.

In a worst case scenario, she'll just offer her cheek if she doesn't want you to kiss her. It's more unnatural to leave a good date without a kiss, or at least try. That might be the reason you never go the second date. They were you expecting you to kiss, or maybe a good kiss would have redeemed what may have been a meh experience with them and they would have given you a second chance.

 

[GoodMan32]

‘scaring away’? If a girl goes on a date with you, she’s not looking for a platonic friend. Dates are meant for exploring romantic/sexual interest. If she’s into you. She wants you to kiss her. If she’s not into you, ‘scaring her away’ with a kiss is irrelevant. As she’s not interested regardless.

You make a brilliant point (which I hadn't even thought of)

I guess even though I've been out of high school for 15 years, the creepy freak stigma I had in high school impacts me to this day (in the sense that I subconsciously believe every woman views me as a creepy freak, even if they agree to go on a date with me). From now on, however, I'm going to need to remember what you said on the post I'm quoting.

 

[Mike32ct]

Yeah, just look into her eyes and move in slowly. You’re gonna get the cheek, lips or mouth depending on her interest level.

Or you’ll get the friendzone bro hug only. Or she will walk 30 feet in front of you and wave goodbye when she gets to her car lol.

Nothing to worry about either way. You’ll see how it plays out.

 

[GoodMan32]

@Hamurabimbi Right after finishing that post I just made, I remembered a girl I briefly dated in college who covered her mouth when I tried to kiss her (in which case, I take back what I said about every broad I had a date with when I was 20-21 kissing me)

She was 19, incredibly naive, and had never done anything with a guy before. In her case, it could have been a simple matter of not being ready for a kiss (despite being into me). I'd still venture to guess the rule you mentioned (if the broad refuses to kiss you, she's not into you anyway) is true in the vast majority of cases.

It's not like I'm looking to date 19 year olds anymore anyway. No woman in my target age group would be in the "never kissed a guy; not ready to" stage.

 

[GoodMan32]

In a worst case scenario, she'll just offer her cheek if she doesn't want you to kiss her. It's more unnatural to leave a good date without a kiss, or at least try. That might be the reason you never go the second date. They were you expecting you to kiss, or maybe a good kiss would have redeemed what may have been a meh experience with them and they would have given you a second chance.

The date when I was 26, she refused to come over after (at which point, it would have been awkward if I then tried to kiss her). In retrospect, maybe a better approach would have been to attempt the kiss first (and then gauge her reaction before deciding whether to invite her over)

The date when I was 32 (which I have a thread about), the broad badgered me multiple times (after our kissless first date) about how badly she wanted a 2nd date (the 2nd date ultimately never ended up happening...because we had a falling out 4 days after the 1st date)

Failing to offer a kiss could totally cost a man a 2nd date in many scenarios, I admit. In these specific instances, on the other hand, it doesn't appear my refusal to offer a kiss made a difference.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Might as well go for her lips(first those which are attached to her face) at the end of the date, hoss. The worst that could happen is that she reacts with a variation of what Bob says here

"Hold it there, professor... I said I had a nice time tonight, not that I was eager for you to stick your tongue down my throat and out my butthole. I was hoping you'd recognize that we didn't click, and things would just work themselves out organically"

 

[pipeman84]

"Now's the hard part. If you don't kiss her, yet she wants you to, she's going to think you don't like her.

Actually she'll wonder if you like her or not and it will increase her attraction. It's called being a challenge and is the third main ingredient of what attracts women to men according to Doc Love, beside confidence and self control.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

You use kino to set the stage and to see what's up, also reading her energy when the opportunity presents itself.

The bigger point from the OP is that the woman in the show is trolling Jimmy. Regardless he gets the kiss, he's dealing with a female player. No bueno.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

And then he fvcks the sh!t out of her later on that night.

 

[GoodMan32]

Actually she'll wonder if you like her or not and it will increase her attraction. It's called being a challenge and is the third main ingredient of what attracts women to men according to Doc Love, beside confidence and self control.

Yikes. Once again, conflicting information (as far as whether it's a good or bad thing to kiss her)

 

[GoodMan32]

You use kino to set the stage and to see what's up, also reading her energy when the opportunity presents itself.

The bigger point from the OP is that the woman in the show is trolling Jimmy. Regardless he gets the kiss, he's dealing with a female player. No bueno.

Yeah, it's like she was rubbing in the fact men are in a difficult position when it comes to dating.

The fact she (as the relationship goes on) ultimately coerces Jimmy to get on the most dangerous horse on the ranch (despite the fact Jimmy had already had a horse-related mishap before) is yet another illustration of the fact she's bad news.

 

[GoodMan32]

And then he fvcks the sh!t out of her later on that night.

Yeah he does.

He only got the sex because the woman basically asked him to stay for sex though (After the kiss, Jimmy says "I guess it's time for me to ride into the sunset." She then says "Jimmy, the sun has already set")

If she hadn't been as aggressive sexually, Jimmy easily could have missed the opportunity for sex.

 

[DJ Novice]

I’ve been seeing girl that’s had the longest last minute resistance I’ve ever encountered.

I’m talking 3-4 hours of kissing, her crossing her legs, pushing my hand away, stopping the making out and starting conversations about random stuff like the colour scheme in my apartmentbefore she permits me to go below her waist.

By that time it’s like 1:30am and she immediately pulls the pin and leaves.

We have been dating for over two months so it’s not like we’ve only just met.

This has now happened twice in a row. There will be no repeat; if she acts this way the next time we catch up it will be the last time and I’ll be politely asking her to go home very early in the night.

 

[plumber]

One of the old time dating coaches had a handle of "doc love". He had an entertaining book and cd set called "the system".

He addressed this exact question. His answer was; us guys don't know. Only the girl knows the right time. He also would hammer on the idea that it doesn't matter how high our interest is in the girl, it only matters about her interest.

It was long ago, I tried some of the advice in his stuff. Most all of it works, it works well enough to make it. Later the problem is no second season in the book on how to deal with LTR... If I recall right, he also covered how to deal with small talk on a date in case that's not easy for someone.

He didn't really talk about plates, only one by one.

The girls KNOW you want to kiss and they know that's why you are there. If they LIKE you they gonna take care of that.

 

[sevbucmash]

Wait.
If you are at the end of your date, and are thinking to kiss or not to kiss her, you had a crappy date, right?
Because if you had a good date, there'd be touching and kissing during the date.

 

[GoodMan32]

I’ve been seeing girl that’s had the longest last minute resistance I’ve ever encountered.

I’m talking 3-4 hours of kissing, her crossing her legs, pushing my hand away, stopping the making out and starting conversations about random stuff like the colour scheme in my apartmentbefore she permits me to go below her waist.

By that time it’s like 1:30am and she immediately pulls the pin and leaves.

We have been dating for over two months so it’s not like we’ve only just met.

This has now happened twice in a row. There will be no repeat; if she acts this way the next time we catch up it will be the last time and I’ll be politely asking her to go home very early in the night.

Interestingly, when and if I pique the interest of a young woman ever again, I'm thinking of doing something similar to what she's doing (Mess around...yet pull the plug on sex. Only in my case, it would be the man pulling the plug)

I already have a track record of declining sex when a young woman is nude in bed with me.