Keeping the costs of dating down

[viking22]

My experience with modern women on dating apps especially those in their 30s and 40s is they expect dinners, shows, rooftop bars and other kinds of entertainment before they will let a man get anywhere with them. It no longer seems so easy to just take a girl to a cheap bar and sleep with her the same night or invite her over to yours the next date. And that only seems to work on low quality girls who are either desperate/insecure/crazy or some combination.

It used to be the case that women were lonely and needed men. But now they have their single girlfriends they go for brunch with and girls nights out and their physical needs are met by the latest in self pleasuring technology and it does the job better than a one night stand with a random guy. So generally women are warier and opposed to something casual. It probably doesn't help that they get bombarded with messages from men so have lots of options.
So I am resigned to the fact that it is necessary to spend some money to get anywhere with an attractive woman.

And the cost of living in big cities is insane. A meal for 2 including wine sets you back at least $100. A round of drinks in a nice bar will probably run up to $50. And on a night out you'd usually end up having a few drinks. So a typical wining and dining date can set you back $200.

Occasionally girls offer to split or will at least buy a round of drinks. But I have found that if you suggest it things quickly go downhill and they go cold. And the more attractive the girl the less likely she is to be open to splitting or offering to pay.

I have developed a few strategies:

-First date I will usually do a coffee if I am not sure about the girl or a drink after work as it keeps the date short and I can either say I have to meet a friend or have a presentation to prepare for the next day.
-Second date I at least know there is some degree of interest. I know a few ethnic type restaurants where you get an authentic food experience without paying crazy prices.
-If I get the feeling that a woman isn't going to be easy then I sometimes choose cheap cultural events at the weekend such as art galleries or find places with live music where the music starts late so I can meet at the venue and avoid having to pay for dinner on top.

But it seems that women are quite happy to be taken on dates and entertained indefinitely and while they will let you kiss them if they like you they don't let things go too far and will politely refuse any invitation to go home with them. And sometimes after a few dates they just cool off probably because they've met someone else they like better.

It is frustrating as hell. This is the 21st century. Women make as much money as men. And with the cost of living even if a man has a decent salary it isn't enough to budget a couple hundred every week for dating which is pretty typical if you have a few women on the go.

Does anyone else have any strategies or workarounds?

 

[Black Widow Void]

If a woman ever balks at your date suggestions, don’t hesitate to say…” It looks like we’ve established what you are. I suppose we now need to establish the required fee for your company.”

After the coffee/drinks date, I’ll follow up by suggesting a “picnic in the park” date.

Hummus, cheese, fruits from a grocery deli section (and of course, sneaking in a bottle of wine) will only run you about $20-$25.

This not only appears as ‘creative and thoughtful’ but provides less distraction and more intimacy to work your magic.

 

[SW15]

My experience with modern women on dating apps especially those in their 30s and 40s is they expect dinners, shows, rooftop bars and other kinds of entertainment before they will let a man get anywhere with them. It no longer seems so easy to just take a girl to a cheap bar and sleep with her the same night or invite her over to yours the next date. And that only seems to work on low quality girls who are either desperate/insecure/crazy or some combination.

Your biggest problem in this paragraph is using dating apps to meet women in their 30s/40s. Try to meet women of that age range through something in real life. If you are able to approach a woman under 30, that's even better. Last night, one of my approaches was a woman who was 24-25 (she mentioned a 1999 birth year). That was good. Right now, I'm 40 and date women younger than me, though rarely under 30. I have noticed in 2023-2024 than I am approach more women under 27, which I like. I'm not necessarily planning that, it is happening from my approach tactics.

Don't rely on swipe apps to meet women. Meet women through some real life method.

Even if you are meeting women in real life, women 30+ won't be down for a cheap bar and same night sex as a first date. Many 20 somethings won't even be down for that as you're noticing. The ones who are often down for that have the bad trait combination you mentioned.

You will likely need to choose a more upscale bar for your first date, but you can avoid an expensive dinner in a restaurant or other more expensive dates. You don't need to select a dive bar but you don't need to be at your city's fanciest bars either. If your city is reasonably populated, you can find a mid-priced bar with decent ambiance for a first date.

It used to be the case that women were lonely and needed men. But now they have their single girlfriends they go for brunch with and girls nights out and their physical needs are met by the latest in self pleasuring technology and it does the job better than a one night stand with a random guy. So generally women are warier and opposed to something casual. It probably doesn't help that they get bombarded with messages from men so have lots of options.
So I am resigned to the fact that it is necessary to spend some money to get anywhere with an attractive woman.

A lot of women are using self pleasuring technologies and some are using porn with it. These women somewhat resemble men who watch a lot of porn and masturbate but not entirely. Women don't need to self pleasure as much as they are able to obtain sex more easily than men. You are correct that some women will self pleasure if they don't want to get emotions involved due to past emotional pain.

And the cost of living in big cities is insane. A meal for 2 including wine sets you back at least $100. A round of drinks in a nice bar will probably run up to $50. And on a night out you'd usually end up having a few drinks. So a typical wining and dining date can set you back $200.

Occasionally girls offer to split or will at least buy a round of drinks. But I have found that if you suggest it things quickly go downhill and they go cold. And the more attractive the girl the less likely she is to be open to splitting or offering to pay.

Avoid meal dates in restaurants until after you've had sex with her. Even the standard drinks in a mid-priced bar as I mentioned above is getting pricy. In the early to mid-2010s, I was tracking my early stage (date 1-3) costs for a few years. My median first date for a number of years was around $22. In a mid-priced bar or 2 bars in a multi-venue situation (4 drinks total, 2 per person + plus tip) is now likely to be $40-$50. I could half the cost by only keeping it at 1 venue, 1 drink. One solution is to only do a 2nd drink if things are going really well and keep that threshold for 'really well' high.

I agree with your point about splitting date costs and buying a round. If you let a woman do that, you probably won't get a 2nd date with her. Tons of men have no issue with taking on the whole cost of the date, so if you don't do the whole cost, she'll find someone else who will. Only a 90-95th percentile guy can get away with doing a split bill and even a lot of them aren't splitting bills because many of them use money as how they get to be high SMV.

I have developed a few strategies:

-First date I will usually do a coffee if I am not sure about the girl or a drink after work as it keeps the date short and I can either say I have to meet a friend or have a presentation to prepare for the next day.
-Second date I at least know there is some degree of interest. I know a few ethnic type restaurants where you get an authentic food experience without paying crazy prices.
-If I get the feeling that a woman isn't going to be easy then I sometimes choose cheap cultural events at the weekend such as art galleries or find places with live music where the music starts late so I can meet at the venue and avoid having to pay for dinner on top.

Coffee dates are not good dates. It's very difficult to physically escalate and set up a first kiss in a coffee shop. There's no romance in a coffee shop's atmosphere. They are usually dull and sterile. Find a mid-priced bar for drinks for your first dates. The mid-priced bar will the be the majority of your first dates but you might be able to do some sort of activity date if it makes sense for a first date.

No dinner dates in restaurants for your 2nd date. Always remember the rule of no dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. Ditch any form of a dinner date, even a lesser expensive ethnic restaurant. Your plans with cheap cultural events for a 2nd date is a way better idea. Art galleries and post-dinner hour live music are decent plans.

it seems that women are quite happy to be taken on dates and entertained indefinitely and while they will let you kiss them if they like you they don't let things go too far and will politely refuse any invitation to go home with them. And sometimes after a few dates they just cool off probably because they've met someone else they like better.

Yes, this can happen. Physically escalate and you should be able to have sex within 3 dates.

It is frustrating as hell. This is the 21st century. Women make as much money as men. And with the cost of living even if a man has a decent salary it isn't enough to budget a couple hundred every week for dating which is pretty typical if you have a few women on the go.

I used to get frustrated by this. I'm 40 now but when I was 25-32 and making less money, I remember this bothering me a lot more than it does now. There were plenty of times during that time in my life where I was paying for early stage dates with women with higher annual salaries than I had at that time. I have progressed in my career to the point where I am making more money than a lot of women. It is still annoying to have to absorb date costs when a woman makes more than you do or at least makes a decent enough salary to pull her own weight.

Men with stronger earnings levels seem to be less frustrated by this. When I read something like this, it's an indicator that a man isn't making enough money.

Does anyone else have any strategies or workarounds?

I have covered most of my strategies for lowering dating costs above but I'll summarize quickly here.

1. Don't use dating apps and arrange dates through real life methods: This will help with reducing wasteful dates as it is difficult to gauge interest behind an electronic screen. Apps are a great way to arrange many low quality first dates with poor outcomes with low quality people.
2. Don't choose expensive venues and don't do dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex
3. Always Be Escalating. If you're always escalating, you're either going to get laid within 3 dates or the woman will decide she's not open to your advances and she'll end the interaction. Either way, less of your time and money are wasted.
4. The home dinner date is a good 2nd-3rd date where you can get the first instance of sex. It avoids the dinner date in restaurant and less expensive. Logistics are good for sex.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

There's a huge amount of advice and theories here, but I see a major flaw in your approach. You're still making the women 'the prize'. You should make yourself the prize and read your post from that perspective.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

OP get a stack of 20's, 10's, 5's and 1's and try to use cash for your bar rounds

 

[EyeBRollin]

My mindset now is, be brutally honest with them upfront. Tell them they have to pay for whatever they want. It’s that simple. Either she’s with it or not.

That is not a recipe for success with women.

 

[Aristippus]

You could always go to the rooftop bar with a single friend to meet the single women there. They are out with their female friends (or friend) and are buying their own drinks.
At that point if you meet someone you hit it off with, exchange numbers and meet her at the same place another time (or possibly you go some place together that night). Just go out as friends where things could get physical (you can read that in her behavior.....where you are her friend but she's sexually attracted to you).

If you go on a date just pick a venue that is decent but not expensive. No dinner date or light dinner or just for drinks.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

They only expect this if they sense you are a chump that will go for it.

I've never had any issues with this.

 

[Solomon]

They only expect this if they sense you are a chump that will go for it.

I've never had any issues with this.

I use to deal with this, OP's is putting out "Boyfriend" vibes, if a chick really likes you she won't care where you take her
This is where tight game+witty flirting+escalation makes a huge difference it can be done even on a swip app

 

[Giovanni SouthSide]

I take any new chick who is worth her salt to a hidden clandestine park across the Coronado bridge. You get a scenic view of the downtown night skyline with the San Diego bay waves tiding in front of you.
I got the bottle of chilled wine and two glasses in the trunk.
I have a place to sit comfortably by the rocks where they can unwind from the rat race.

Never was the formal dinner date type unless she is a girlfriend and I still pulled some fertile Latina tail.

When I’m feeling on peak, I sometimes hit up a McDonald’s.
I buy my own milkshake.
I offer her a chance to buy a milkshake as well.

I whip out my pack of chewing gum and offer them a free piece.

if they fail to say thank you which has never happened, I don’t reward them with a 2nd date.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I take any new chick who is worth her salt to a hidden clandestine park across the Coronado bridge. You get a scenic view of the downtown night skyline with the San Diego bay waves tiding in front of you.
I got the bottle of chilled wine and two glasses in the trunk.
I have a place to sit comfortably by the rocks where they can unwind from the rat race.

Never was the formal dinner date type unless she is a girlfriend and I still pulled some fertile Latina tail.

When I’m feeling on peak, I sometimes hit up a McDonald’s.
I buy my own milkshake.
I offer her a chance to buy a milkshake as well.

I whip out my pack of chewing gum and offer them a free piece.

if they fail to say thank you which has never happened, I don’t reward them with a 2nd date.

I've been to that same park on a date. Gotta love latinas.

 

[CountSuavula]

Scenic views are like gold for a woman on a first date.