Let's Be Real Here Pt.5 - These Red Pill Principles are OUTDATED

[Smooth_texter]

For the last 3 years I have been exploring the various "manosphere" videos on you tube and other resources.

I think that some of the things that were pushed are outdated, or even outright wrong, and even can do harm if a man follows them. Since I am some random guy on the Internet, I wanted to discuss with all forum members on what their opinion on the below is. Perhaps I am wrong, or perhaps there are many outdated principles?

The biggest things that I disagree with (based on personal experience and what I have seen in real life) are as follows:

1. "The Wall" starts at 25-27 - By "Wall" it I am referring to a lack of attraction and desirability from the opposite sex. From what I have seen, women can have enough suitors well into their 40s (thanks to SM and OLD). So the notion that a 25-27 woman (up to 50) isn't desired, and would settle for a loser, is no longer valid.

2. A man in his 20s can't handle a woman in her 20s. He should chase his purpose, and can start looking for a 20-something woman when he is 35 - This is a very, very harmful advice. Although most men are broke at that age, the requirements towards them are minimal (usually to just be "on the right track"). I would also argue that most men are too introverted and passive, and could have acquired some experience starting from their late teens. Also, the more minor mistakes you make at a younger age, the wiser you are going to be at a younger age. Most men here seem to be late bloomers - having some or minimal experience with women in their late 20s or even early 30s, thus just starting at that age.

3. The older you are, the more attractive you are to women - Women are not attracted to the age difference in itself, they are attracted to the skills and lifestyle that you have acquired. But as said in the previous point, that can be done earlier, at least partially. Also, the older you are, the more things you would need to have to have going for you (you are now judged by your accomplishments and assets, unlike when in your 20s).

Here's a simple example for this - Rich Cooper, one of the RP guys that I have watched 2-3 years ago and respect, makes 1-2k USD per hour of consultations. He also rode a Mclaren 720s (at least 3-4 years ago) and has some you tube clout. However, he is in an LTR with a single mother his age (47+?). So he is a high value man compared to most, yet he is not able to have and LTR with a 20-something woman, even though he has enough earnings, assets and clout.

4. Concrete definition of a 'High Value Man" - nobody has given a concrete definition. Does a certain amount of net worth make you high value? Or is it you lifestyle? We have clearly seen the richest men in the world to be in scarcity with women, and choosing sub optimal women.

The below is genuine burning desire.

This is what a man should aim for. Bezos has 600x the net worth of Di Caprio, and being a world famous entrepreneur, who created a trillion dollar company, should have been the more desirable according to Red Pill.

At the time of this recording, Bezos was the richest man on earth.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

5. Women strive to be in LTRs - True. But only with either her top or nearly best suitors. I believe that the infamous "two thirds of young men are single" shows this. It has been my experience that more and more women chose to be single for a while, even though they can pick between many beta suitors.

6. "GAME" creates physical attraction - If you are at a given moment a woman's best option, no game is needed (unless you are socially awkward. The reverse however is not true. And by "GAME" am referring to the verbal and text methods a man uses to get faster into a woman's pants or heart. Not status, money or looks.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I don’t believe 1, 2, 4 or 6.
3 is maybe. Depends in the girl & you. True enough for me.
5 is true 95%.

 

[Gamisch]

You are (again) cherry picking.

Redpill is about REALITY vs dogmatism. Because every bluepilled man will come to a point where he'll have to admit that the redpill guy was right. The redpill guy can ALWAYS say"told ya so".

Can be 1 month, can be 10 years. RPiller will be right eventually, bluepilled man will cry that he shoulda woulda coulda listen when he was getting schooled.

1.yes..HER wall. She'll notice she went from hb9 to hb8..huge difference. Not for the AFC chasing her..but to Chad it is!!

2.also True. This is @Gamisch his catchphrase: women years are like dog years. Her window to get children marriage and all that good stuff with a TOP CANDIDATE is very small. Perhaps untill 40 . For a man that is easily 55/60.

3 also true. I notice it myself. Mind you,i keep hearing i look like end 20 begin 30 whole i amn hitting 40 almost. I get uncut and raw ioi EVERYWHERE I GO, from ages 15 to 65. Now, with all this experience..I am unstoppable. When i was 20 i bet i was prettier, but also HIGHLY insecure. 100s of women later (dating and sexing) , iam way more confident about the outcome while simultaneously not caring about said outcome. This is my ABSOLUTE prime. Oh, and I ve slept with at least four 19 y.olds after being 32 times 100s of sessions so..

4.well , you could argue that any man with a networth of more than a million = hvm. Or 5 million if you want. At some point its doesn't matter anymore, because leo is the 0,1 % of top men , and Bezos is the 0,01 %of top men. No woman will tell the difference. They van both Eat at the same restaurants drive the same cars ect. Leo tho, is the most sought after bro for almost 30 plus years. Who the heck is Bezos? a average dude with money. Fecking or sucking Leo =status for life ,more than doing that to Jeff.


5. Is you confessing to the rp? A typo?


6.you are NEVER her best nor first option..NEVER. but a woman is also realistic and she might live for the moment. If you play your cards right (GAME) you can definitely create attraction and turn her on.

Bottomline .the redpill is right and you proved it haha. Sleep well my brothers.

 

[SW15]

1. "The Wall" starts at 25-27 - By "Wall" it I am referring to a lack of attraction and desirability from the opposite sex. From what I have seen, women can have enough suitors well into their 40s (thanks to SM and OLD). So the notion that a 25-27 woman (up to 50) isn't desired, and would settle for a loser, is no longer valid.

"The Wall" is a lot more forgiving and a lot less punishing then a lot of red pillers/Manosphere men would like for it to be.

A childless, 35 year old woman who isn't overweight will still generate a lot of interest. The options won't be as good as when she was 25, but there are still enough options for her out there, especially if she lives in a more populated metro area (think 1 million+). Most 35 year old women have more options than most 35 year old men.

The equation changes when a woman has a child. Single moms in their 30s/40s will still be able to get a decent amount of sex, but they will struggle to get commitment. Even a lot of thirsty, beta, average frustrated chumps won't commit to a single mom. Yes, there are thirsty, average frustrated chumps who will commit, but many of them already have children themselves.

2. A man in his 20s can't handle a woman in her 20s. He should chase his purpose, and can start looking for a 20-something woman when he is 35 - This is a very, very harmful advice. Although most men are broke at that age, the requirements towards them are minimal (usually to just be "on the right track"). I would also argue that most men are too introverted and passive, and could have acquired some experience starting from their late teens. Also, the more minor mistakes you make at a younger age, the wiser you are going to be at a younger age. Most men here seem to be late bloomers - having some or minimal experience with women in their late 20s or even early 30s, thus just starting at that age.

When a man is in his 20s, he is well positioned to date women who are in their 20s. This makes sense. It's more difficult for a 35 year old man to get a 23 year old girlfriend than it is for a 25 year old man to get a 23 year old girlfriend. A man needs a social life while he is in his 20s. It makes sense for men to date age appropriate women while in their 20s. It's even possible that some of these relationships can have longevity and maybe even higher quality longevity. However, most relationships have a shelf life of goodness of around 5 years, no matter how long they last.

3. The older you are, the more attractive you are to women - Women are not attracted to the age difference in itself, they are attracted to the skills and lifestyle that you have acquired. But as said in the previous point, that can be done earlier, at least partially. Also, the older you are, the more things you would need to have to have going for you (you are now judged by your accomplishments and assets, unlike when in your 20s).

Here's a simple example for this - Rich Cooper, one of the RP guys that I have watched 2-3 years ago and respect, makes 1-2k USD per hour of consultations. He also rode a Mclaren 720s (at least 3-4 years ago) and has some you tube clout. However, he is in an LTR with a single mother his age (47+?). So he is a high value man compared to most, yet he is not able to have and LTR with a 20-something woman, even though he has enough earnings, assets and clout.

If you're an older man, you will likely need to make a good amount of money and have a solid net worth to date 10+ years younger, something that starts for men in their early 30s.

I know Rich Cooper had dated a single mom in the past but wasn't sure if he is still dating one.

4. Concrete definition of a 'High Value Man" - nobody has given a concrete definition. Does a certain amount of net worth make you high value? Or is it you lifestyle? We have clearly seen the richest men in the world to be in scarcity with women, and choosing sub optimal women.

The critique that "nobody has given a concrete definition of a high value man" is something that black piller Wheat Waffles said when critiquing the red pill.

To me, Game is some combination of looks, money, status, and personality. Guys like Bezos and Bill Gates based their game entirely around money and status. Guys who use Seeking are primarily basing their game on money and possibly status.

5. Women strive to be in LTRs - True. But only with either her top or nearly best suitors. I believe that the infamous "two thirds of young men are single" shows this. It has been my experience that more and more women chose to be single for a while, even though they can pick between many beta suitors.

Agree

6. "GAME" creates physical attraction - If you are at a given moment a woman's best option, no game is needed (unless you are socially awkward. The reverse however is not true. And by "GAME" am referring to the verbal and text methods a man uses to get faster into a woman's pants or heart. Not status, money or looks.

I think looks matter most in seduction, primarily if you are an under 35 guy. Women do consider money and status more for 35+ men. Personality (which is verbal and text methods) usually matter less than looks and money.

 

[corrector]

Agreed with all points with respect to sub 8 guys. I think sub 8s see the world of women differently than chads/chadlites and each point will have a different nuance based on the differing dating realities.

 

[parabellum]

For the last 3 years I have been exploring the various "manosphere" videos on you tube and other resources.

I think that some of the things that were pushed are outdated, or even outright wrong, and even can do harm if a man follows them. Since I am some random guy on the Internet, I wanted to discuss with all forum members on what their opinion on the below is. Perhaps I am wrong, or perhaps there are many outdated principles?

The biggest things that I disagree with (based on personal experience and what I have seen in real life) are as follows:

I commend you for taking the time to write this post.

1. "The Wall" starts at 25-27 - By "Wall" it I am referring to a lack of attraction and desirability from the opposite sex. From what I have seen, women can have enough suitors well into their 40s (thanks to SM and OLD). So the notion that a 25-27 woman (up to 50) isn't desired, and would settle for a loser, is no longer valid.

The way I see it, the biological clock of a woman is ticking and probably in its prime from 18 to 28.

The attraction clock is a different thing, thanks to increasingly high life expectancy, endemic simping behavior, etc.

2. A man in his 20s can't handle a woman in her 20s. He should chase his purpose, and can start looking for a 20-something woman when he is 35 - This is a very, very harmful advice. Although most men are broke at that age, the requirements towards them are minimal (usually to just be "on the right track"). I would also argue that most men are too introverted and passive, and could have acquired some experience starting from their late teens. Also, the more minor mistakes you make at a younger age, the wiser you are going to be at a younger age. Most men here seem to be late bloomers - having some or minimal experience with women in their late 20s or even early 30s, thus just starting at that age.

This is grotesquely wrong. Men with successful role models have a high chance of learnto cultivate body and mind and many how-tos about successfully leading their lives probably from their teenager years. If not even younger. Women is a fun addition to their life’s that comes as a by product of their lifestyles.

People who lacks successful role models needs to realize this as early as possible in their lifes in order to try and even up. Some Men will never realize this and will wander living subpar lives.

important point, you don’t need too much money to be successful with women. You only need enough to be independent and have an exciting lifestyle. But you need to have an exciting lifestyle by default, not because you’re trying to attract women.




3. The older you are, the more attractive you are to women - Women are not attracted to the age difference in itself, they are attracted to the skills and lifestyle that you have acquired. But as said in the previous point, that can be done earlier, at least partially. Also, the older you are, the more things you would need to have to have going for you (you are now judged by your accomplishments and assets, unlike when in your 20s).

Here's a simple example for this - Rich Cooper, one of the RP guys that I have watched 2-3 years ago and respect, makes 1-2k USD per hour of consultations. He also rode a Mclaren 720s (at least 3-4 years ago) and has some you tube clout. However, he is in an LTR with a single mother his age (47+?). So he is a high value man compared to most, yet he is not able to have and LTR with a 20-something woman, even though he has enough earnings, assets and clout.


I would say this is mostly true for late bloomers. In other words, the people who lack role models mentioned in point 2. I believe the reason is almost obvious.


4. Concrete definition of a 'High Value Man" - nobody has given a concrete definition. Does a certain amount of net worth make you high value? Or is it you lifestyle? We have clearly seen the richest men in the world to be in scarcity with women, and choosing sub optimal women.

The below is genuine burning desire.

This is what a man should aim for. Bezos has 600x the net worth of Di Caprio, and being a world famous entrepreneur, who created a trillion dollar company, should have been the more desirable according to Red Pill.

At the time of this recording, Bezos was the richest man on earth.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

This will probably would take some more brain power, but. I’d go for: enough money to be independent and afford your preferred lifestyle, being implied that you are constantly displaying leadership traits in the activities that make up your lifestyle. You know you are a catch. You know, and people around you knows,that if a women goes away, it won’t take much to get the next one.

5. Women strive to be in LTRs - True. But only with either her top or nearly best suitors. I believe that the infamous "two thirds of young men are single" shows this. It has been my experience that more and more women chose to be single for a while, even though they can pick between many beta suitors.

this is true, in my experience. Of course, women will prefer a better than average catch. Top percentile. This is not bad because all DJ masters should be there. However modern times have led some fraction of women to believe that they have infinite time and freedom to pursue and wait for their preconceived catch.


6. "GAME" creates physical attraction - If you are at a given moment a woman's best option, no game is needed (unless you are socially awkward. The reverse however is not true. And by "GAME" am referring to the verbal and text methods a man uses to get faster into a woman's pants or heart. Not status, money or looks.

My view here is that game is not a panacea. Game alone will help, but won’t do much unless you have a healthy dose of status and looks. (I didn’t mention money on purpose)

game, looks and estatus need to be cultivated in a bundle when possible.

the rule of thumb being that you need 3/3 to get the good girl, 2/3 to get a girl.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I don’t believe 1, 2, 4 or 6.
3 is maybe. Depends in the girl & you. True enough for me.
5 is true 95%.

Just to clarify. I am responding to the Red Pill bold text. Not OP’s commentary. So. For example. #5 I’ve found most women want an LTR and are pretty up front and relentless about it.

 

[RazorRambo24]

Nothing is ever that linear or black and white. People who think in those simple terms just haven't experienced enough in life to be able to see how diverse/dynamic things are when it comes to dating, social dynamics, etc.

I feel for alot of people.. I think people are just way more sheltered than they think they are. I think the problem is just the system of being trapped into career, jobs, education, and thes robotic lives that haven't allowed some people to really go out , explore, experience, learn, grow, socialize enough to really have this wide compass.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Agreed with all points with respect to sub 8 guys. I think sub 8s see the world of women differently than chads/chadlites and each point will have a different nuance based on the differing dating realities.

Literally every Chadlite/Chad I know is in a relationship.

 

[CornbreadFed]

1. "The Wall" starts at 25-27 - By "Wall" it I am referring to a lack of attraction and desirability from the opposite sex. From what I have seen, women can have enough suitors well into their 40s (thanks to SM and OLD). So the notion that a 25-27 woman (up to 50) isn't desired, and would settle for a loser, is no longer valid.

I agree, "The Wall" is a just a cope used by butt hurt men that need an escapism from their pitfalls.

2. A man in his 20s can't handle a woman in her 20s. He should chase his purpose, and can start looking for a 20-something woman when he is 35 - This is a very, very harmful advice. Although most men are broke at that age, the requirements towards them are minimal (usually to just be "on the right track"). I would also argue that most men are too introverted and passive, and could have acquired some experience starting from their late teens. Also, the more minor mistakes you make at a younger age, the wiser you are going to be at a younger age. Most men here seem to be late bloomers - having some or minimal experience with women in their late 20s or even early 30s, thus just starting at that age.

50/50, I think spinning plates/chasing tail is a waste of time and should be done at an earlier point in life. I think all men can benefit from a healthy LTR that helps them grow and feeds their sexual desires at the same time.

3. The older you are, the more attractive you are to women -

This I 100% agree with and I love your example. This is another cope used by bitter man as an escapism for their pitfalls.

4. Concrete definition of a 'High Value Man" -

For the red pill to ever be taken seriously again and to adapt to a modern audience, it needs to retire this High Value Man/Alpha & Beta Male nonsense. These terms are stupid and greatly embarrassed the Godfather of the Redpill when he couldn't answer the question himself.

6. "GAME" creates physical attraction -

Agreed, there has to be some form of physical attraction initially.

5. Women strive to be in LTRs -

I disagree with you on this point. I think women strive to be in LTRs with their ideal men and are pickier up front. Mostly novice men or men in scarcity will ignore qualities of women and dive in to LTRs blindly.

 

[corrector]

Literally every Chadlite/Chad I know is in a relationship.

Thanks for sharing this. Are your White incel friends sub 5 or normies? Is your Ethnic incel friends sub 5, normies, or would the ethnic chad/chadlite?

Your chad/chadlite friends that do have a relationship are they serial monogamists or are they in solid LTRs? They have side chicks/side rotations?

The red pill has lost lots of rep points for hyping game too much and not being honest about looks in order to make money selling false hope and getting a feminist backlash. To say its dated is understatement.

 

[pipeman84]

Here's a simple example for this - Rich Cooper, one of the RP guys that I have watched 2-3 years ago and respect, makes 1-2k USD per hour of consultations. He also rode a Mclaren 720s (at least 3-4 years ago) and has some you tube clout. However, he is in an LTR with a single mother his age (47+?). So he is a high value man compared to most, yet he is not able to have and LTR with a 20-something woman, even though he has enough earnings, assets and clout.

I'll counter with a different example, Zan Perrion (look him up, read his book if you haven't already ) who got in a relationship with a 22yrs old when he was 48 ... that was back in 2012, they're still together and married.

The main issue with RP gurus like Cooper or Corey Wayne is that they just talk, they don't walk the walk. My impression of them is that they are just as insecure and butt hurt as a 20s something guy ... so why would a 20s something girl stay with an 'old' guy once the facade is removed? She gets none of the benefits of being in a relationship with a mature guy so why would she stay in it?

 

[Dr.Suave]

The wall starts after 23. There are exceptions.

A man in his 30s usually has better experience to handle a girl in her 20s than a guy in his 20s. Again, there can be exceptions.

The older you are, the more attractive you are to women. This is true, at least with certain type of women. If this wasnt true, the term "daddy issues" would have never existed in the first place.

Chad Thunderc0ck is a High Value Man. Basically, someone who has similar Looks/Money/Status as Chris Hemsworth / Thor

Women want to be in LTRs. Most of them do, at least before they get brainwashed, jaded, pump & ghosted, etc.

Game can create attraction, sometimes. Too many variables at play.

For the most part, I believe these principles are still valid.

 

[zekko]

Here's a simple example for this - Rich Cooper, one of the RP guys that I have watched 2-3 years ago and respect, makes 1-2k USD per hour of consultations. He also rode a Mclaren 720s (at least 3-4 years ago) and has some you tube clout. However, he is in an LTR with a single mother his age (47+?). So he is a high value man compared to most, yet he is not able to have and LTR with a 20-something woman, even though he has enough earnings, assets and clout.

Maybe he likes her? Maybe he relates to her better since she is his own age. Guys here tend to judge other guys' women by what they themselves want, instead of what the other guy wants.

That said, Cooper doesn't strike me as a master seducer type, honestly. He seems like a guy who will have a relationship on his terms, and not tolerate any disrespect, so he's red pill in that sense. But he doesn't strike me as a guy who's particularly concerned about trolling bars on Friday night looking for some 21 year old to have a casual hookup with.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Also, the older you are, the more things you would need to have to have going for you (you are now judged by your accomplishments and assets, unlike when in your 20s).

Obsessing over wealth as defining your own value is blue pill, in my opinion. Guys live their entire lives and never get over that idea. It's the biggest self defeating concept out there. You c0ckblock yourself at a young age, then later end up with a shallow b1tch who only wants you for your money...what a life!

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Thanks for sharing this. Are your White incel friends sub 5 or normies? Is your Ethnic incel friends sub 5, normies, or would the ethnic chad/chadlite?

Your chad/chadlite friends that do have a relationship are they serial monogamists or are they in solid LTRs? They have side chicks/side rotations?

The red pill has lost lots of rep points for hyping game too much and not being honest about looks in order to make money selling false hope and getting a feminist backlash. To say its dated is understatement.

my incel friends are probably 4/10. The guys in relationships (including myself) are, as far as I know. faithful.

 

[The Duke]

Redpill to me is a level of experience and realization that women are what they are. You can accept or stay mad and quit.

I don't get too caught up in the details being hashed out above because everyone will have a different perspective that is true to what they have experienced in life. Just like what RazorRambo said. Get out more and you might broaden your own perspective.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

3. The older you are, the more attractive you are to women - Women are not attracted to the age difference in itself, they are attracted to the skills and lifestyle that you have acquired. But as said in the previous point, that can be done earlier, at least partially. Also, the older you are, the more things you would need to have to have going for you (you are now judged by your accomplishments and assets, unlike when in your 20s).

It's not about being older, it's about maturity that make you attractive to women. A mature man is grounded and has his affairs in order, he knows the world and can show her new things. Most guys her age are not too young, but rather too immature to compete with that.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

I think an important point to raise about the wall is that it does not necessarily reference her age, but rather her behaviour, the age is in association to what time we begin to see a change in behaviour, if we're going strictly based off of age, it would be more associated with when we begin to see drop offs in an ability to produce healthy offspring. I guess it could be a convergence between behaviour and quality of offspring as well.

In terms of being on your purpose, the fact of the matter is that socialization matters most in children; when we are adults, we experience direct consequences of our childhood, most children not socialized by the age of 4 are going to struggle with socialization for the entirety of their lives, to suggest a lack of socialization as an adult will impact your ability to socialize is ridiculous unless your experiencing intense and prolonged isolation, even then you can make a recovery within reason.

 

[corrector]

my incel friends are probably 4/10. The guys in relationships (including myself) are, as far as I know. faithful.

Are they looksmaxxed at 4/10 or can they improve?