Let's be honest: The Game starts from HER.

[manfrombelow]

As the title suggested:

I am convinced that no Game can magically help you seduce a woman that has NO INTEREST for you from the start.

The Game can only be initiated if a woman is attracted to you from the beginning. In other words: The Game starts from Her.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Not really a novel insight. Of course you cannot open a woman if she's not receptive. That's why it's harder to open women in places where they don't come to be seduced (like a park), but if you can make a woman receptive to you, you will have her undivided attention, unlike bars and nightlife where girls are more receptive but where you will have to elbow yourself through the crowd of thirsty puppies.

I tell students to learn how to read body language, so they can see whether women are receptive or not.

 

[corrector]

Water is still wet.

 

[characternote]

of course this is terribly obvious. Water is wet as said above lol

However, i'll cut you some slack because, in fairness, if this thread was made 15 years ago (on this forum or any other PUA forum) everyone would completely disagree with you and be like 'you just don't have 'game'. you can be 55 and fat and broke and short and ugly and still pull 18 year old 10's every night if you learn about negging and dhv stories blablabla'

Basically, the whole community seems to have MOSTLY waken up in the last 10 years or so. Even the coaches themselves don't seem to imply that game is black magic in the same way coaches like mystery and others did back in the day. Maybe the requirement for infields and such made it harder for them to sell the lie. For example, once they weeded out the fake infields (tom torerro and a few others for example) we were left with PUA's who had no more success from a percentage point of view than any other dude off the street. We see the 'pros' get rejected a hell of a lot. People started being like 'Why? Why didn't his 'game' work on her?'
And out of maybe 10 thousand (?) infields that have been released there were basically never any infields where the PUA turned a clear hard 'no' off the open into sex. Basically showing that 'game' is extremely ineffective at what it was marketed as. If you're not her type, it's basically over before it even started.
No PUA in the world would get drastically better results than me if we looked identical and were gaming in the same location. And visa-versa

I'm mildly surprised that the industry is still going with that in mind tbh. Since everyone basically accepts that 'game' is more or less basic social skills that help IF a girl is sexually attracted to you, it's a wonder they're still able to take money from people. It's like selling fresh air

Mark Manson said it best. 'Game' certainly exists, but you can't use it to force sexual attraction in a girl. Game is there to help you amplify EXISTING attraction and to help you lead that sexual attraction into a lay

 

[Bigpapa]

Game starts from you, as it is in your own hands to max out whatever Mother Nature gave to you

Even a guy who was super blessed by Mother Nature if he does not take good care of himself he will not be successful

The women finding you sexy or whatever is just a feedback of the work you put

 

[Millard Fillmore]

It's irrelevant where it starts, whatever that even means. I don't think about it and talk to whomever I want. Not saying I don't read the room. But waiting for "IOIs" is what makes a lot of guys hesitate and chicken out.

 

[Gamisch]

Lets turn it around. Picture a womam thinking the game starts from HIM.

The woman would assume she has no change if he doesn't like...petite brunettes with a B cup ,some azz and blue eyes?

Pretty unlikely huh? Soon as she presents herself, a man MIGHT like her.

Back to us men. I know women dont operate the same. But there "just human " like us...Why we believe that we have ZERO change if she doesn't like...black/white/latin/Asian your-style and type of- men?

Imo game matters A LOT. But as someone just said ,you cant be 55 broke overweight and socially awkward. If you are 55 ripped pocket full of cash and a mouthpiece, i believe you can create attraction on the spot.

The problem is men want one size fits all solutions. That never exists. You gotta be fluid and sharp . IF a woman likes you ,you gotta be able to tell that from how she's responding to you.

 

[Gamisch]

It's irrelevant where it starts, whatever that even means. I don't think about it and talk to whomever I want. Not saying I don't read the room. But waiting for "IOIs" is what makes a lot of guys hesitate and chicken out.

Ioi is a weapon.

You are just "you"( the absolute king, a BEAST of a man whose working his azz of and is the brightest light wherever he goes) .

While you are YOU woman will have no other option but to check you out= ioi.

Ioi's are earned and not given. At some point ioi becomes normal. Ask a hot woman. Ask @BeExcellent how normal ioi is to her. Doesn't mean she'll engage with every man that ogled at her.

Level up and get showered with ioi from woman 15-60. Then YOU can choose which one you wanna approach.

Completely different mindset from a man desperate for p00sy roaming the streets like a predator and begging women for some attention.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

Ioi is a weapon.

You are just "you"( the absolute king, a BEAST of a man whose working his azz of and is the brightest light wherever he goes) .

While you are YOU woman will have no other option but to check you out= ioi.

IOIs are helpful but can be fool's gold. And a lack of indicators does not mean a lack of interest. If you're a high value man a lot of women won't just put themselves out there, believe me. Some will, some won't, they get shy and reserved and weird sometimes. I've sexed very attractive girls who came off disinterested at first. I've been rejected by girls who gave EVERY sign in the book.

Level up and get showered with ioi from woman 15-60. Then YOU can choose which one you wanna approach.

Level up higher and don't wait around for signs. I talk to any girl I want to. Doesn't mean IOI's aren't helpful, they're just not the be all end all of interest. A lot of guys leave good women on the table because they won't take that leap.

Completely different mindset from a man desperate for p00sy roaming the streets like a predator and begging women for some attention.

Ya, I think we agree on that.

 

[Gamisch]

I

IOIs are helpful but can be fool's gold. And a lack of indicators does not mean a lack of interest. If you're a high value man a lot of women won't just put themselves out there, believe me. Some will, some won't, they get shy and reserved and weird sometimes. I've sexed very attractive girls who came off disinterested at first. I've been rejected by girls who gave EVERY sign in the book.



Level up higher and don't wait around for signs. I talk to any girl I want to. Doesn't mean IOI's aren't helpful, they're just not the be all end all of interest. A lot of guys leave good women on the table because they won't take that leap.



Ya, I think we agree on that.

I Like this. A civilized discussion, where we dont agree but can nod the head when reading the counter arguments.

Just wanna add that IF you fecked her while she seemed disinterested, she must've seen you. I mean , as I am growing and getting sight of the top 20% I get more arrogance as well. I now sometimes PRETEND like i dont see certain women.

Best example is the hottest bytch in the gym. Everyone eye goggles her, i pretend she doesn't exist. I can imagine you went through something similar but with the genders reversed.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

I
I Like this. A civilized discussion, where we dont agree but can nod the head when reading the counter arguments.

Just wanna add that IF you fecked her while she seemed disinterested, she must've seen you. I mean , as I am growing and getting sight of the top 20% I get more arrogance as well. I now sometimes PRETEND like i dont see certain women.

Best example is the hottest bytch in the gym. Everyone eye goggles her, i pretend she doesn't exist. I can imagine you went through something similar but with the genders reversed.

Yep I think we are both going off of our experiences, always good to hear a fresh perspective.

That can be a good strategy, ignoring her like she's just another average chick. Though sometimes those girls seem snooty because they don't get approached as often as we think, too many guys are intimidated. (Not saying you are intimidated, but others are.)

 

[Bigpapa]

Yep I think we are both going off of our experiences, always good to hear a fresh perspective.

That can be a good strategy, ignoring her like she's just another average chick. Though sometimes those girls seem snooty because they don't get approached as often as we think, too many guys are intimidated. (Not saying you are intimidated, but others are.)

Women are extremely shy so you will miss IOIs from girls who are introverted or shy in the vast majority of cases

A couple of days ago I was chilling in a sun bed somewhere in the Shade

A decent looking girl comes to me and says hello. I say hello back. She blushes ( her face almost turns full red ), starts looking down and then after a couple of seconds later she smiles and leaves

Like someone said, there is no silver bullet but for sure the more you focus on your looks and being chill, the higher the chances for girls to like you

 

[pipeman84]

Women are extremely shy so you will miss IOIs from girls who are introverted or shy in the vast majority of cases

A couple of days ago I was chilling in a sun bed somewhere in the Shade

A decent looking girl comes to me and says hello. I say hello back. She blushes ( her face almost turns full red ), starts looking down and then after a couple of seconds later she smiles and leaves

Like someone said, there is no silver bullet but for sure the more you focus on your looks and being chill, the higher the chances for girls to like you

So what happened next?
She couldn't have been that shy, otherwise she wouldn't have straight come up to you and say hello. She either would've sat on her sun bed, throwing glances at you or walked by your sun bed and maybe looked at you.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think IOIs are nothing but fools gold. You never know if a girl is just being nice or teasing and some girls just have resting bvtch face or preoccupied with something else.

 

[Bingo-Player]

That can be a good strategy, ignoring her like she's just another average chick. Though sometimes those girls seem snooty because they don't get approached as often as we think, too many guys are intimidated. (Not saying you are intimidated, but others are.)

Theres a chick in my gym who looks extremely intimidating very physically strong with a huge booty

I have never seen any guys talk to her. and for like 2 months I didn't either

then last week I caught a random opportunity to talk to her and took it , she was very nice way nicer than I was expecting

We exchanged instas and a couple of messages back and forth , she left me on read for 3 days then out of nowhere randomly responded to something I said which I found quite weird as generally once you get left on read a low interest girl rarely comes back

I think this was probably the only stage where game came into play because I have a funny feeling she was testing to see if I would chase her with another message

I know I have to ask her out in person and she's either gonna say "yes" , "no" or "maybe" ( which is a soft no )

again at this stage there's really not much game can do the girl has to be interested enough in order too go out with you

Its actually the stages after the first date game comes more into play

Experienced stuff like allowing her to contact you first , teasing her , flirting with her , getting her hamster and imagination going

 

[NoFear]

If both of you where alone in a deserted island, no matter what, you would end up banging her.Period.

Any woman can be seduced, but situation, venue and logistics take an influence and those things are normally out of your control and wont give you any feasible opportunity with her( unless you start taking stalker tactics which if caught can get you in trouble ).
Besides, lets face it, there are girls that require an austistic chess tactical brain being capable of staying 20 moves ahead to be able to game them, and no girl is worth that kind of effort.

What is important and paramount to understand though, is why in the 50,60s period an smv male 6 category in looks could get with a 7,8,9 female much easier than today and as men get together collectively andrevert all the damage feminism has done to get back to that situation.
Pua and game in esrly 2000’s tried to adress this situation but it has ended being a patch, must bigger measures must be taken.

All the blackpill guys, covert feminists,igualitarian soy boys and redpill-(no seduction works) guys clearly dont help the situation. ( some of them take a big presence in this forum, which is a real shame )

 

[RazorRambo24]

I mean it didn't take me more than a second to think of all the examples I know of women who initially had no interest in someone and then fell to their pursuit/advances. Its pretty common man..

I think that you might be thinking from more of a pickup perspective perhaps rather than an overall dating and social dynamics perspective.

But even then, myself and others have had experiences where there were no initial interest but still won over the girl even after much resistance. I've brought up in the past how sometimes you have to "show" a woman that she likes you, --where initially she might have no interest, but something you did or said sparked it.

I think with more experience you'll come to realize this but till then, I hope my perspective helped.