No real motivation to meet/date girls anymore

[corrector]

@BergischerLöwe -- @Canadian_Man and @Learning Curve are correct. This is all a mindset problem. You have a really bad scarcity mentality. You have a bad mentality on all levels.

You probably have enough issues that you need to start seeing some mental health professional, such as a licensed counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist to work through some of your problems. Counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists can only take a man so far in fixing seduction problems. Mental health professionals can help with some downstream relational problems but they can't teach you how to walk up to a woman and start an interaction. You won't learn how to approach from sessions with a mental health professional. They are educated or really equipped in their practices to teach you approaching and arranging the first date. Most male mental health professionals are beta males who are in mediocre marriages. There are also female mental health professionals. To be a female mental health professional, an advanced degree is needed. These women are SJW/feminist/careerist to some extent.

I had a few efforts in therapy before finding a therapist I could work with for 2+ years to address all of my issues. I had some dating trauma issues but I also had issues relating to my parents' divorce and overall unhealthy marriage prior to the divorce, and childhood bullying issues stemming from an ill advised relocation decision that my parents made. My father also said some really pathetic beta male sayings to me as a child that I think hampered some of my teen and early 20s mating environment efforts. I had some mindset issues too. I realized this more as I thought about it and worked through some childhood issues.

You need a combination of mental health therapy, no porn, no masturbation, aerobic and anaerobic exercise, and no eating processed foods. Also no video games either. You need to avoid all the common male sedation tactics.



This is wrong. These men all "simp" online. These are men supporting women on OnlyFans.





"The juice is not worth the squeeze" is a pathetic cope. Every man needs to have sex.

The options are dating conventionally (aka paying indirectly for sex) or paying directly for sex. If you're a lower income man, you're likely not going to be able to afford paying directly for sex frequently enough. Higher income men can pay directly for sex and not have to worry about conventional dating and paying indirectly for sex. If these men wish to pay indirectly for sex, these men do things like buy Rolexes/other luxury watches and luxury brand cars in order to attract women (paying indirectly for sex).

If a man doesn't have the income to pay directly for sex frequently, he has to do a lot of work to improve his looks, money, status, or personality.

You have a quasi cuck mindset if you think its a cope that the juice is not worth the squeeze. You call other guys on apps pvasy beggers and now you are saying those who are not are patheric copers. You have no walk away power.

You also portraying escortcellingn as cost prohibitive? You are again injecting your personal beliefs and bias. How frequently is enough? Some people is good for one or twice per monrh. The rate some people get ONS is less frequently then that and have to settle for whoever likes them. Betas in some marriages is not even once per month. Paying directly can vary in price so someone go with what they can afford. I dont think sex is as much of the issue but more personal female attention and erotic touching.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I am looking at a reddit thread called escort clients and was shocked to see how many people wrote that they helped them meet real women by giving them confidence. 4 years without sex, without intimate touching plays with your mind,.according to those posts. Guys did not realise how touched starved they were and how that was messing up everything as they had that desperation women could smell a mile away. An escort visit fixed all of that. It was an interssting read. Yeah, just look at other reddit threads (which is my actual advice, not the escort bit).. You might find something interesting or even helpful or juat be entertained.

I personally am very reluctant to visit an escort, even if I went back to the Old Country where it's legal. I'm pretty much certain that I wouldn't do that, especially since it's not really what I'm looking for. The only advantage seeing escorts would have in my eyes is that they'd be hotter than the women I'm accustomed to meeting. Even then I wouldn't, I don't really want to be inside a woman who's taken thousands of men already.

 

[corrector]

I personally am very reluctant to visit an escort, even if I went back to the Old Country where it's legal. I'm pretty much certain that I wouldn't do that, especially since it's not really what I'm looking for. The only advantage seeing escorts would have in my eyes is that they'd be hotter than the women I'm accustomed to meeting. Even then I wouldn't, I don't really want to be inside a woman who's taken thousands of men already.

Like I said, I have not directly recommended escorts as its against my religion, and have only brought up reddit threads where that was discussed and thought it was an interesting read. (That being the case, if I went back into the past, by 9 years and it was 2014, I can say that I never actually had sex when I visited an escort (again, it was also against my religion then too). I'm talking about just hugging, dancing, and contact, playing with her hair or talking with her). When I did cross the line with the second escort I visited (ie again no sex, but I let her suck me this time and I thrusted against the OUTSIDE of her vagina until I came and gripped her a$$ very tightly while doing that and was a ball of sweat after I exploded next to her), then yes, I could not mentally process that she's taken thousands of men already and that caused a nervous break-down. I completely understand that nobody wants to have a nervous break-down after visitng an escort because not everyone can process that they've been with other guys once post-nut clarity sets in. Post-nut clarity in such a case is like being hit by a large truck on the highway. Takes about a month to recover. Don't know how other guys are able to process that.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

@BergischerLöwe -- @Canadian_Man and @Learning Curve are correct. This is all a mindset problem. You have a really bad scarcity mentality. You have a bad mentality on all levels.

You probably have enough issues that you need to start seeing some mental health professional, such as a licensed counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist to work through some of your problems. Counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists can only take a man so far in fixing seduction problems. Mental health professionals can help with some downstream relational problems but they can't teach you how to walk up to a woman and start an interaction. You won't learn how to approach from sessions with a mental health professional. They are educated or really equipped in their practices to teach you approaching and arranging the first date. Most male mental health professionals are beta males who are in mediocre marriages. There are also female mental health professionals. To be a female mental health professional, an advanced degree is needed. These women are SJW/feminist/careerist to some extent.

I had a few efforts in therapy before finding a therapist I could work with for 2+ years to address all of my issues. I had some dating trauma issues but I also had issues relating to my parents' divorce and overall unhealthy marriage prior to the divorce, and childhood bullying issues stemming from an ill advised relocation decision that my parents made. My father also said some really pathetic beta male sayings to me as a child that I think hampered some of my teen and early 20s mating environment efforts. I had some mindset issues too. I realized this more as I thought about it and worked through some childhood issues.

You need a combination of mental health therapy, no porn, no masturbation, aerobic and anaerobic exercise, and no eating processed foods. Also no video games either. You need to avoid all the common male sedation tactics.



This is wrong. These men all "simp" online. These are men supporting women on OnlyFans.





"The juice is not worth the squeeze" is a pathetic cope. Every man needs to have sex.

The options are dating conventionally (aka paying indirectly for sex) or paying directly for sex. If you're a lower income man, you're likely not going to be able to afford paying directly for sex frequently enough. Higher income men can pay directly for sex and not have to worry about conventional dating and paying indirectly for sex. If these men wish to pay indirectly for sex, these men do things like buy Rolexes/other luxury watches and luxury brand cars in order to attract women (paying indirectly for sex).

If a man doesn't have the income to pay directly for sex frequently, he has to do a lot of work to improve his looks, money, status, or personality.

I already do a few of the things you suggest. I see a psychologist already and I work out regularly, I don't eat junk food or processed foods or anything containing soy, I almost never play video games, and for the past eight years I've avoided any hardcore porn and have only jerked off to softcore images or no images at all. Any man who gets off to watching footage of women being taken by other men is indirectly a cuck as far as I'm concerned. As far as escorts I've already made up my mind that I wouldn't do that for various reasons. The only time I seriously considered doing so was back when I was like 20 and still a virgin, but when I managed to lose my virginity at 21 I stopped entertaining that notion. I don't believe seeing escorts should be illegal but personally I have religious objections about seeing any myself, thus I personally wouldn't engage in it though I don't hold it against any guy who does. Escorts also just isn't what I'm looking for anyway. I would be sketched out at the prospect of seeing one, and I probably would feel weird about a woman only having sex with me because I payed her to. What I actually want is to have a good relationship with a woman I'm both physically and emotionally attracted to who has things in common with me, but I've long suspected that this notion is a pipe dream in this day and age. Maybe if I were around a few hundred years ago in the Old Country when society was more based on tradition I would have had a much easier time, but in this dark era we live in I'm kinda screwed. Regardless I don't really think I have a good way forward in this area of life and I should probably focus on attaining happiness in other areas.

 

[corrector]

I already do a few of the things you suggest. I see a psychologist already and I work out regularly, I don't eat junk food or processed foods or anything containing soy, I almost never play video games, and for the past eight years I've avoided any hardcore porn and have only jerked off to softcore images or no images at all. Any man who gets off to watching footage of women being taken by other men is indirectly a cuck as far as I'm concerned. As far as escorts I've already made up my mind that I wouldn't do that for various reasons. The only time I seriously considered doing so was back when I was like 20 and still a virgin, but when I managed to lose my virginity at 21 I stopped entertaining that notion. I don't believe seeing escorts should be illegal but personally I have religious objections about seeing any myself, thus I personally wouldn't engage in it though I don't hold it against any guy who does. Escorts also just isn't what I'm looking for anyway. I would be sketched out at the prospect of seeing one, and I probably would feel weird about a woman only having sex with me because I payed her to. What I actually want is to have a good relationship with a woman I'm both physically and emotionally attracted to who has things in common with me, but I've long suspected that this notion is a pipe dream in this day and age. Maybe if I were around a few hundred years ago in the Old Country when society was more based on tradition I would have had a much easier time, but in this dark era we live in I'm kinda screwed. Regardless I don't really think I have a good way forward in this area of life and I should probably focus on attaining happiness in other areas.

You do not fit into the pigeonholed stereotypes that @SW15 and some other people on here has towards incels/borderline incels. In fact, most people don't. Most of us are doing our best but coming up short.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

You do not fit into the pigeonholed stereotypes that @SW15 and some other people on here has towards incels/borderline incels. In fact, most people don't. Most of us are doing our best but coming up short.

Yeah man that's what it feels like. On any forum I've posted on about this issue people have been quick to label me according to some incel stereotype and that's not what I'm actually like at all

 

[GoodMan32]

@BergischerLöwe -- @Canadian_Man and @Learning Curve are correct. This is all a mindset problem. You have a really bad scarcity mentality. You have a bad mentality on all levels.

You probably have enough issues that you need to start seeing some mental health professional, such as a licensed counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist to work through some of your problems. Counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists can only take a man so far in fixing seduction problems. Mental health professionals can help with some downstream relational problems but they can't teach you how to walk up to a woman and start an interaction. You won't learn how to approach from sessions with a mental health professional. They are educated or really equipped in their practices to teach you approaching and arranging the first date. Most male mental health professionals are beta males who are in mediocre marriages. There are also female mental health professionals. To be a female mental health professional, an advanced degree is needed. These women are SJW/feminist/careerist to some extent.

I had a few efforts in therapy before finding a therapist I could work with for 2+ years to address all of my issues. I had some dating trauma issues but I also had issues relating to my parents' divorce and overall unhealthy marriage prior to the divorce, and childhood bullying issues stemming from an ill advised relocation decision that my parents made. My father also said some really pathetic beta male sayings to me as a child that I think hampered some of my teen and early 20s mating environment efforts. I had some mindset issues too. I realized this more as I thought about it and worked through some childhood issues.

You need a combination of mental health therapy, no porn, no masturbation, aerobic and anaerobic exercise, and no eating processed foods. Also no video games either. You need to avoid all the common male sedation tactics.



This is wrong. These men all "simp" online. These are men supporting women on OnlyFans.





"The juice is not worth the squeeze" is a pathetic cope. Every man needs to have sex.

The options are dating conventionally (aka paying indirectly for sex) or paying directly for sex. If you're a lower income man, you're likely not going to be able to afford paying directly for sex frequently enough. Higher income men can pay directly for sex and not have to worry about conventional dating and paying indirectly for sex. If these men wish to pay indirectly for sex, these men do things like buy Rolexes/other luxury watches and luxury brand cars in order to attract women (paying indirectly for sex).

If a man doesn't have the income to pay directly for sex frequently, he has to do a lot of work to improve his looks, money, status, or personality.

When I was in college, I would have gals drive *to me* for free no-strings-attached sex. Maybe it was my youthful looks, maybe it was the location I was in (compact college town where everything was pretty much within a 3 mile radius), maybe a little of both. All I know is, in my current location, at my current age (30s), I could *never* pull this off.

Anyway, back the topic of how most guys either have to pay for sex directly or indirectly. I've been with an escort as cheap as $120. Seeing as I only buy escorts, at most, twice a month, is that really a whole lot more expensive than having a girlfriend?

 

[GoodMan32]

You have a quasi cuck mindset if you think its a cope that the juice is not worth the squeeze. You call other guys on apps pvasy beggers and now you are saying those who are not are patheric copers. You have no walk away power.

You also portraying escortcellingn as cost prohibitive? You are again injecting your personal beliefs and bias. How frequently is enough? Some people is good for one or twice per monrh. The rate some people get ONS is less frequently then that and have to settle for whoever likes them. Betas in some marriages is not even once per month. Paying directly can vary in price so someone go with what they can afford. I dont think sex is as much of the issue but more personal female attention and erotic touching.

To add onto what you said...

Back in college (when I hadn't discovered escorts yet), I wanted sex all the time. I think there are 2 reasons:

1. Being college-aged, I had the sex drive of an animal.
2. Since there's no real rhyme or reason to how often you're able to secure one night stands, I had this feeling of "I *need* to get laid. Because who knows how long it might be before my next chance?"

At my current life stage (30s, escort customer), I have a lower sex drive (so I don't need sex as often). Plus, I have the peace-of-mind of knowing *I* am 100% in control of how often I get laid. All I have to do is contact an escort when I feel like it.

Knowing I have escorts to fall back on drastically reduces the sense of desperation I'd otherwise feel.

 

[corrector]

When I was in college, I would have gals drive *to me* for free no-strings-attached sex. Maybe it was my youthful looks, maybe it was the location I was in (compact college town where everything was pretty much within a 3 mile radius), maybe a little of both. All I know is, in my current location, at my current age (30s), I could *never* pull this off.

Anyway, back the topic of how most guys either have to pay for sex directly or indirectly. I've been with an escort as cheap as $120. Seeing as I only buy escorts, at most, twice a month, is that really a whole lot more expensive than having a girlfriend?

Indeed. Back in 2014 when I had used the escorts, the price was $ 60. Currently, the going rate for a Spanish escort in a Spanish brothel is $ 70-80, but there is one still around for $ 60 (ie but that one has "no blacks/no blacks under 40" which would put it lower on a priority list).

With me a girlfriend would be different than an escort since you can go different places with a girlfriend and have a shared experience and history, and of course, she is exclusive with you so it's not really a valid comparison. However, on principle, I mean to further illustrate its not cost-prohibitive.

However, when I had the mental break-down caused by a spiritual attack after visiting the last escort, there were other expenses:
1) I rented a hotel for a few days, that cost a few hundred dollars.
2) I bought a bunch of herbal medication from the health food store, that could have cost like a couple of hundred dollars, etc...
While I paid $ 60.00 for that escort, I lost a month and spent around $ 500 indirectly to treat myself and was out of commission.
Just because it's cheap doesn't mean its easy on your system after post-nut clarity sits in. I think the cheaper it goes the more your conscience bites you.

 

[SW15]

Knowing I have escorts to fall back on drastically reduces the sense of desperation I'd otherwise feel.

That's true. It might also keep you from simping on Instagram and OnlyFans too.

back the topic of how most guys either have to pay for sex directly or indirectly. I've been with an escort as cheap as $120. Seeing as I only buy escorts, at most, twice a month, is that really a whole lot more expensive than having a girlfriend?

The answer is that it depends.

If you're paying an escort to have sex with you every 2-3 weeks, what you're doing is mimicking the frequency of sex of a married man who has been in the same relationship for 5+ years. That married man likely has 1-2 kids with his wife, a single family house, and 1-2 pets at home (often dogs). That guy likely has a mediocre to subpar sex life.

If you tried to get the same sex frequency as a 30 year old single man in good shape with a girlfriend of less than 2 years or a 30 year old 'Chad' with a rotation, you'd need to pay escorts at least weekly, if not twice a week. A lot of men can't afford an escort that often.

 

[GoodMan32]

I already do a few of the things you suggest. I see a psychologist already and I work out regularly, I don't eat junk food or processed foods or anything containing soy, I almost never play video games, and for the past eight years I've avoided any hardcore porn and have only jerked off to softcore images or no images at all. Any man who gets off to watching footage of women being taken by other men is indirectly a cuck as far as I'm concerned. As far as escorts I've already made up my mind that I wouldn't do that for various reasons. The only time I seriously considered doing so was back when I was like 20 and still a virgin, but when I managed to lose my virginity at 21 I stopped entertaining that notion. I don't believe seeing escorts should be illegal but personally I have religious objections about seeing any myself, thus I personally wouldn't engage in it though I don't hold it against any guy who does. Escorts also just isn't what I'm looking for anyway. I would be sketched out at the prospect of seeing one, and I probably would feel weird about a woman only having sex with me because I payed her to. What I actually want is to have a good relationship with a woman I'm both physically and emotionally attracted to who has things in common with me, but I've long suspected that this notion is a pipe dream in this day and age. Maybe if I were around a few hundred years ago in the Old Country when society was more based on tradition I would have had a much easier time, but in this dark era we live in I'm kinda screwed. Regardless I don't really think I have a good way forward in this area of life and I should probably focus on attaining happiness in other areas.

With what a hard time I have getting laid the traditional way, I've come to accept a woman only having sex because I paid her to.

I know I've made my lays from college sound easy (if you've seen some of my other posts). Even in college though, for every lay I got, I ended up wasting countless hours in the pursuit of a lay. I could count on 2 hands the amount of times I got laid my entire college career.

With escorts, I no longer have to waste countless hours looking for a woman willing to lay me. Money talks.

 

[GoodMan32]

Indeed. Back in 2014 when I had used the escorts, the price was $ 60. Currently, the going rate for a Spanish escort in a Spanish brothel is $ 70-80, but there is one still around for $ 60 (ie but that one has "no blacks/no blacks under 40" which would put it lower on a priority list).

With me a girlfriend would be different than an escort since you can go different places with a girlfriend and have a shared experience and history, and of course, she is exclusive with you so it's not really a valid comparison. However, on principle, I mean to further illustrate its not cost-prohibitive.

However, when I had the mental break-down caused by a spiritual attack after visiting the last escort, there were other expenses:
1) I rented a hotel for a few days, that cost a few hundred dollars.
2) I bought a bunch of herbal medication from the health food store, that could have cost like a couple of hundred dollars, etc...
While I paid $ 60.00 for that escort, I lost a month and spent around $ 500 indirectly to treat myself and was out of commission.
Just because it's cheap doesn't mean its easy on your system after post-nut clarity sits in. I think the cheaper it goes the more your conscience bites you.

Since I fornicate with escorts at home, there's no hotel cost.

You're right, you get an emotional connection (and shared history) with a girlfriend. A girlfriend is also a lot of commitment, however. I don't want to be bothered by a girlfriend after a long day of work. Escorts work best for my lifestyle.

 

[GoodMan32]

That's true. It might also keep you from simping on Instagram and OnlyFans too.



The answer is that it depends.

If you're paying an escort to have sex with you every 2-3 weeks, what you're doing is mimicking the frequency of sex of a married man who has been in the same relationship for 5+ years. That married man likely has 1-2 kids with his wife, a single family house, and 1-2 pets at home (often dogs). That guy likely has a mediocre to subpar sex life.

If you tried to get the same sex frequency as a 30 year old single man in good shape with a girlfriend of less than 2 years or a 30 year old 'Chad' with a rotation, you'd need to pay escorts at least weekly, if not twice a week. A lot of men can't afford an escort that often.

Right, I couldn't afford to mimic the Chad (or at the very least, I'd take quite the financial hit).

Still, the fact I get laid less often than the Chad, but I don't have to be bothered by a girlfriend after a long workday, is a fair tradeoff to me.

A girlfriend doesn't come with an off button. In a way, I pity Chad.

 

[corrector]

Since I fornicate with escorts at home, there's no hotel cost.

You're right, you get an emotional connection (and shared history) with a girlfriend. A girlfriend is also a lot of commitment, however. I don't want to be bothered by a girlfriend after a long day of work. Escorts work best for my lifestyle.

I am hoping subbing with an escort's onlyfans can mimic an emotional connection and shared history. After all you can DM her a day after the session or DM her between sessions.

 

[SW15]

Right, I couldn't afford to mimic the Chad (or at the very least, I'd take quite the financial hit).

Still, the fact I get laid less often than the Chad, but I don't have to be bothered by a girlfriend after a long workday, is a fair tradeoff to me.

It's not just the top tier guys who you aren't mimicking. You're also not mimicking the beta males in the earlier stages of relationships. These might be guys with "7" tier looks but have yet to fall into the trap of marriage, home ownership, and babies. They will eventually. These guys are typically guys who have been with their girlfriends for less than 2 years, don't have children with them, and have yet to move in with them. These guys are getting laid at least weekly with their girlfriends. They might be called 'Greater Betas'. They could also be called higher tier normies.

Some unmarried betas have expensive indirect payments for sex. Some had to buy luxury cars, luxury watches, luxury brand clothes, etc. in order to get attention from women. In a relationship, they are also buying expensive vacations and spending on expensive nights out with their girlfriends.

A girlfriend doesn't come with an off button. In a way, I pity Chad.

That's more of a problem for normie tier guys (even higher tier normie guys). The Chad has a girlfriend that tries to make things easier for him. A woman might even accept being part of a situationship for a Chad.

Normies are less likely to pull situationships and are typically forced into the boyfriend-girlfriend type relationship.

 

[corrector]

It's not just the top tier guys who you aren't mimicking. You're also not mimicking the beta males in the earlier stages of relationships. These might be guys with "7" tier looks but have yet to fall into the trap of marriage, home ownership, and babies. They will eventually. These guys are typically guys who have been with their girlfriends for less than 2 years, don't have children with them, and have yet to move in with them. These guys are getting laid at least weekly with their girlfriends. They might be called 'Greater Betas'. They could also be called higher tier normies.

Some unmarried betas have expensive indirect payments for sex. Some had to buy luxury cars, luxury watches, luxury brand clothes, etc. in order to get attention from women. In a relationship, they are also buying expensive vacations and spending on expensive nights out with their girlfriends.



That's more of a problem for normie tier guys (even higher tier normie guys). The Chad has a girlfriend that tries to make things easier for him. A woman might even accept being part of a situationship for a Chad.

Normies are less likely to pull situationships and are typically forced into the boyfriend-girlfriend type relationship.

Hence the comparison between a girlfriend and escort which you have just validated as being comparable. Well done. If he wanted to he could double the frequency go weekly. An older guys libido is less frequent then that. Like he said, no off switch.

 

[GoodMan32]

I am hoping subbing with an escort's onlyfans can mimic an emotional connection and shared history. After all you can DM her a day after the session or DM her between sessions.

There's this one escort I first met in 2016. While she's not my one and only escort, I've continued giving her business through the years. We even text outside "work" about all sorts of stuff. And she doesn't charge me to communicate with her outside of work (like an Only Fans woman would)

 

[corrector]

There's this one escort I first met in 2016. While she's not my one and only escort, I've continued giving her business through the years. We even text outside "work" about all sorts of stuff. And she doesn't charge me to communicate with her outside of work (like an Only Fans woman would)

Everybody else gets breaks in life except for us. At least there is an option to buy it if you can't get it.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

All this discussion of escorts but I wouldn't go to one myself

 

[corrector]

All this discussion of escorts but I wouldn't go to one myself

I told you not to go because if you cheat on your religion then you might get a nervous break-down, like I did, 9 years ago. The mind doesn't process or assimilate things that go against its core programming. The happy medium I have found between visitng an escort and my state of mind has been OnlyFans. That is because you are just dealing with a screen and you can't get contaminated the same way by a screen.

However, the way I portray it in posts, I would guess its symbolic, poetic, or fits a narrative of that worst case scenario of darkness in terms of gender dynamics. You have to be a true cynic in some ways. However, doesn't it feel good that at least on paper, or theory, that a woman is just a phone call and couple of hundred dollars away if you are that desperate, or in my case, even cheaper? I don't know about you, but it makes me feel like the man, lol! Pure escpaism I guess.