Why women are so " complicated "

[SW15]

Here’s the thing @pipeman84 the first boyfriend I dated who I lost the V card to etc., he cheated on me, because of my inexperience. Ain’t that a thing? Broke my heart too. I left him because I’m not going to be with a cheater.

The five year boyfriend proposed to me very early on (six months into the relationship) and I didn’t feel I knew him well enough at that point to get married. We dated another 4.5 years. I discovered almost 5 years in that he was sleeping around behind my back here & there. He loved me but thought he could get away with it. It broke the trust, and I broke it off, which broke his heart in a major way. His mother, who I was very close with, told me a number of times that he often lamented how he treated me, I was the one that got away.

So nope, those are nowhere near divorces. Those are guys who were not worth marrying in the end.

They both cheated on you ... you're the common denominator here. I don't believe there were no signs these 2 guys were no good ... actually I think they were 'bad boys' and you thought you're going to tame them. And after two relationships, one of 2yrs and the other of 5yrs you married your husband after 6 months of dating. How does that work?! A marriage that unsurprisingly ended in divorce. (of course, his fault, according to you.)

@pipeman84 -- The guy she was in a relationship with for 5 years but never married was a man who proposed marriage to her 6 months into that relationship. Following that marriage proposal, that relationship lingered for another 4.5 years until it failed. That guy cheated on her.

I agree with the general idea here that @BeExcellent carried a bad relationship history into her first marriage. She might have only had a 2 notch count in her late 20s courtship phase with her ex-husband (then a nightclub owner/operator, now a former nightclub owner/operator). It's probable that the guys in these two non-marital relationships were top tier men who ultimately weren't monogamous, as many top tier men aren't. It's possible that @BeExcellent thought she offered enough to keep top tier men monogamous but those top tier men decided monogamy with her wasn't going to be in the cards. It's also possible that these top tier men didn't have great character either.

The biggest mistake that @BeExcellent made in that 5 year non-marital relationship was letting the relationship linger after the failed marriage proposal. That would have been an excellent time to depart that relationship. She wasted 4.5 years of her prime in a bad relational fit. That man also made a bad decision to propose marriage after only 6 months. That's a very short time and her reaction to a proposal at the 6 month mark was reasonable.

It isn't at all surprising that @BeExcellent had a failed marriage after failed non-marital LTRs of 2 years and 5 years where there was infidelity. It's likely she carried the pain of such events into that relationships and it's possible that affected the development of the relationship. When she met the nightclub owner, she was in her late 20s, which would have been the tail end of her prime/past her prime depending upon how you define prime. Peak female attractiveness is ages 18-25.

When @BeExcellent has discussed her marriage, she gives justifiable reasons for why it ended and why she had no choice but to leave. I don't think it's worth arguing that story and I never have done that. However, it is commonplace behavior for women to gloss over or omit some important contributory factors from their own behavior that indirectly caused the marriage to fail. My mom is great example of doing this as she neglects to mention some of her own behaviors that were contributing factors to her divorce from my dad, but not primary factors at all. My mom is less blameless than she makes herself out to be, and it's likely @BeExcellent does the same thing as my mom. The circumstances were a bit different in my mom's failed marriages as compared to the failed marriage @BeExcellent had, but the same theme likely exists. Since I could observe my mom's marriage, I could identify the parts of the story that my mom tends to not fully portray as reality.

Both @BeExcellent and my mom had spotty relationship histories going into marriages that ultimately failed. They both carried that baggage. I think there were selection issues in both situations. With @BeExcellent , a nightclub owner is not an ideal candidate for a marital relationship. These are guys who have abundance and can cheat in an instant. They also are surrounded by drugs, alcohol, and some other things not conducive to a good family life. Those elements are very exciting in the early stages of a relationship, so it's easy to why the attraction was there. Ultimately, it was a situation where both parties probably overstayed the viable life of that relationship. There were also mitigating circumstances such as the failure of the nightclub business.

@BeExcellent and I do not agree on certain topics. That's understandable. I am impressed that she's able to have the emotional composition that she's displayed to have the conversations that she's had on this forum over the years. It's not easy to do.

I'm not sure it is fair to count failed LTRs of 2+ years to be quasi marriages. If we count failed 2+ year relationships as "marriages", the average 30+ year old has more "divorces" to their names.

I think it is, because it shows you what kind of 'expiration date' her relationships have. You're practically forewarned you're dealing with a bomb with delayed firing. So you have a woman who reaches 30yrs old and has had 2 relationships, one of 2 years and one of 5 years. Now you're going to marry her and start a family? Firstly, you're taking on legal responsibilities to get what the other 2 guys got for free so to speak. Secondly, you really must feel lucky or be naive to think you'll happily pass the 5yrs mark.

These are interesting points in general.

It would be common to encounter a 30 year old, never married, and childless woman who has had a failed 5 year relationship, 1-3 failed 2-3 year long relationships, and 1-2 failed 1 year long relationships, plus instances of one night stands, casual sex, and many "one date, no sex, no second date" interactions. This typical 30 year old woman I describe would have a notch count somewhere in the 5-10 range, which doesn't sounds like a lot if she's been trying to date actively for roughly 15 years. That woman likely isn't going to be a good fit for a legal Western marriage with the inherent risks of legal Western marriages and raising children.

Plenty of men out there would pursue the never married, childless 30 year old that I just described.

It would even be difficult to get 5 good years out of that woman in a non-marital relationship with no kids.

 

[Bigpapa]

They are biologically hardwired as the inferior sex this means they will likely never be able to achieve what their male counterpart can

Whilst some try to, by doing so they adopt masculine tendencies and basically become impossible to romantically be with

So any woman who wishes to stay true to her Femininity HAS to stay within her mans shadow, she has to look up to him as her god

Now if you are a female and you are going to select a man , what type of man do you want ?

Do you want one that you can can walk all over ?

Do you want one that lusts after any beautiful woman he sees ?

DO you want one that crumbles under pressure ?

Do you want one that lacks respect ?

Do you want one that lacks control ?

Do you want one that Is scared to even approach you ?

I can tell you now if I was a woman I wouldn't want a man with any of the above
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Women view dating and secks a lot differently to us they have very little choice or control about what types of men approach them , they can't just go be dominant and approach every guy they fancy because that's not a feminine act

We just see a pretty lady we want to sleep with , we don't really care about anything else because if all fails we can just go and find another one we don't really risk much because we can't get pregnant and our wall is a lot later in life

A woman has to check all of the above SIMPLY to maintain her feminine polarity within the relationship and ensure her man is going to be able to maintain his role during their relationship

It's actually very very difficult for women too choose a man and that is why they play all of these games and do all of these tests

And whilst all of this can be very confusing and complicated for men She's just checking to see if your the kind of man she wants

Oh and another thing .....


IF she's checking chances are you aren't doing a good enough job at presenting yourself as the kind of man she should want to be with .

Tinder drove me to freeze my eggs
https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/02/14/tinder-drove-me-to-freeze-my-eggs

women play the field just like guys do, just that online dating and a lot of mantra about “ 30s is the new 20s” and so on prolongs their “ girls just wanna have fun” time ( which is till they find an amazing guy )

it is the easiest times to get laid, but the most difficult to actually find a good relationship

 

[lizardking82]

You are both right .

Misogyny indeed gets you nowhere. A real DJ obviously LOVES women. If you dont love em,better find a way...i always say that it's pointless to chase PRs if you hate the gym
Gotta actually like them.

That being said: Stringpulller is also right that a successful marriage/ltr means the man knows how to ...pull the strings, and give her enough leeway to make it seems like she is in charge. That takes a really real one.

This forum has apparently become much more of a joke since the last time I was here. You wanna make it seem like she's in charge? LOL no, man, you wanna be in charge of yourself and the relationship and not only NOT make it seem like she's in charge, you gotta make it clear you are in charge. Won't last long otherwise or it will last and you will be miserable.

 

[lizardking82]

You guys should just go listen to Black Philipp Show, from 1 to 12, that's all you will ever need to absorb to learn how to deal with women.

Yes, we are better than them as a creature, yes, they are inferior and that's why they are naturally cunning, deceptive, but not in a malicious kind of way most of the time. Just go listen to Patrice, he's the big boss that figured it all out and stop trying to get it from a woman who posts at SoSuave forums LOL that's just ridiculous

 

[Gamisch]

This forum has apparently become much more of a joke since the last time I was here. You wanna make it seem like she's in charge? LOL no, man, you wanna be in charge of yourself and the relationship and not only NOT make it seem like she's in charge, you gotta make it clear you are in charge. Won't last long otherwise or it will last and you will be miserable.

Did you even read what it said before you started fuming?

In a MARRIAGE, long term relationship where you live together. Kudos for you if you managed to have a slave wife for years while actually controlling her. What do you think? That you will completely control her life, choices, taste ect? Gtfo.

But i somehow geuss that's it not the case that you know what's it like to share your life with a woman that is able to hold her own.

You guys should just go listen to Black Philipp Show, from 1 to 12, that's all you will ever need to absorb to learn how to deal with women.

Yes, we are better than them as a creature, yes, they are inferior and that's why they are naturally cunning, deceptive, but not in a malicious kind of way most of the time. Just go listen to Patrice, he's the big boss that figured it all out and stop trying to get it from a woman who posts at SoSuave forums LOL that's just ridiculous

i agree that Patrice is the absolute KING of any redpill shyte or coach ever. Still anyone will have his own experience,vision and things to say. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[lizardking82]

Did you even read what it said before you started fuming?

In a MARRIAGE, long term relationship where you live together. Kudos for you if you managed to have a slave wife for years while actually controlling her. What do you think? That you will completely control her life, choices, taste ect? Gtfo.

But i somehow geuss that's it not the case that you know what's it like to share your life with a woman that is able to hold her own.

You sperg with your limited understanding of the world. So the only two levels you know in this aspect are "you let her think she's in charge" or "she's your slave wife and you control everything", right?

I never control any woman or man or person, no time or interest in doing that. Any woman or man or person will test to see if they can abuse you or not, no matter what kind of relationship you have with them. These are the cases you show them they can't abuse you and that you are in charge. This is a more complicated topic, but main point is: have yourself as your own point of origin although every woman will try and push you towards taking action and decisions that benefit her narrative, but not just women per se...everyone. Ain't gonna go deeper, you're already swimming in the blue sea of the blue pill, need to get out of there first to then come around here and maybe we can talk. Till then...keep swimming, bud.

 

[lizardking82]

Did you even read what it said before you started fuming?

In a MARRIAGE, long term relationship where you live together. Kudos for you if you managed to have a slave wife for years while actually controlling her. What do you think? That you will completely control her life, choices, taste ect? Gtfo.

But i somehow geuss that's it not the case that you know what's it like to share your life with a woman that is able to hold her own.

i agree that Patrice is the absolute KING of any redpill shyte or coach ever. Still anyone will have his own experience,vision and things to say. Nothing wrong with that.

You don't understand Patrice or else you wouldn't be talking the way you are LOL you can have your own experience, but that's basically sth like women say "my truth, your truth", there are no truths of yours of theirs, some things are objectively one way or another and that's about it. The mindset of "let her think she's in charge" unless you're doing it in a clearly joking way...reeks of blue pill mentality and that's just sad.

 

[BeExcellent]

You know @SW15 I don’t mind you breaking down my history through my 20s. It doesn’t bother me. But understand that I was there, you weren’t and some of your assumptions are wholly inaccurate, which is to be expected of course.

The first boyfriend felt entitled to cheat, and to be honest, in my innocence I expected him to be more faithful, to display character and loyalty as I was. We did not value the same things I came to understand and the relationship was not tenable.

The 5 year boyfriend did propose within 6 months. It kinda freaked me out. I liked him but we were still early on and getting to know one another in depth. What I really think happened was that he actually felt rejected at that time, and he also had a hard time saying no to female attention although he was not plating other girls & he did in fact love me; was emotionally attached to me. So those two things contributed to his behavior.

I carried zero pain from those interactions into my first marriage (not kidding) and chose a man who was extremely loyal. So loyal in fact that I’m the only woman he’s had sex with since 2000 even til today. I wish he’d meet someone and get involved. Apparently I’m a tough act to follow. Our issues were elsewhere in the relationship, and I’ve spoken openly about those things here for benefit of the community. My first husband was from a good family that valued monogamy; his parents were happily married until his father died, his mother was a virgin on her wedding night, the values we had were the same in that sense. I worried only slightly about his work environment, and I traveled all over for work myself, neither of us ever cheated the entire time we were together, despite the marriage eventually failing.

Frankly all the men described in this thread came from monogamous happily married parents with multi decade unions. So they all had that in common.

Each of the men I have been involved with have been highly desirable men, and I will certainly allow that when I was young & quite innocent I did not understand game or how to manage a relationship. By the time I married I did understand that and how it affects the interaction in the context of other options (mine and his), and my understanding has grown over time.

Really it’s normal for people to have failed relationships leading to the marriage relationship. It’s unusual for the very first romantic interest to turn into a lifelong partner. It’s good when it happens but it’s quite rare these days.

 

[BeExcellent]

They both cheated on you ... you're the common denominator here. I don't believe there were no signs these 2 guys were no good ... actually I think they were 'bad boys' and you thought you're going to tame them. And after two relationships, one of 2yrs and the other of 5yrs you married your husband after 6 months of dating. How does that work?! A marriage that unsurprisingly ended in divorce. (of course, his fault, according to you.)

Both men pursued me hard. I did not chase men (not how I was raised) under any circumstances and I expected character because that was what I brought to the table (beyond attractiveness, pleasant personality, and intelligence). I was too naive with the first guy, no doubt. The second guy I knew deeply loved me. His mother thought he was just sowing oats until we actually got married (which the entirety of both our families fully expected would happen), I just couldn’t accept his dishonesty, once discovered, and found that to be an objectionable character flaw that constituted a deal breaker. He did NOT expect me to drop him over it, and he misjudged my value and my ability to pull the plug (I didn’t tolerate him bedding other women - why should I)….his mother chewed him out after I broke up and said “I told you so. You cannot treat a girl like that the way you did & expect her to stay.”

Dating is about mate selection at the end of the day from my perspective. Otherwise why bother? But it takes two to tango. The way you see if someone is worth it is by dating for a period of time & observing their behavior. People cannot hide who they are forever.

 

[SW15]

it’s normal for people to have failed relationships leading to the marriage relationship. It’s unusual for the very first romantic interest to turn into a lifelong partner.

Most romantic relationships fail at some point in time. Some fail faster than others. That's why I've been a proponent of the idea of the "shelf life of monogamy". One of the key contributions to this forum that I've had is my idea that monogamous relationships have a shelf life of goodness of approximately 5 years and that's with a good frame (see Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 defined below). A lot of beta males don't even have a good enough frame to get 5 good years. Longevity of a relationship is no indicator of quality.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #1

Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of whose frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are.

in my innocence I expected him to be more faithful

It is somewhat challenging for me to see your point on that based on my own experience. Your experiences are different from mine. You're from the generation prior to my generation. You were in college almost 15 years before I was in college and it was a slightly different time. By the time I reached college in the early to mid-2000s, women of college age were rarely innocent. I can't think of any interactions I had while in college where the woman displayed traits of innocence.

The 5 year boyfriend did propose within 6 months. It kinda freaked me out. I liked him but we were still early on and getting to know one another in depth. What I really think happened was that he actually felt rejected at that time, and he also had a hard time saying no to female attention although he was not plating other girls & he did in fact love me; was emotionally attached to me. So those two things contributed to his behavior.

His mother thought he was just sowing oats until we actually got married (which the entirety of both our families fully expected would happen), I just couldn’t accept his dishonesty, once discovered, and found that to be an objectionable character flaw that constituted a deal breaker. He did NOT expect me to drop him over it, and he misjudged my value and my ability to pull the plug (I didn’t tolerate him bedding other women - why should I)….his mother chewed him out after I broke up and said “I told you so. You cannot treat a girl like that the way you did & expect her to stay.”

It would be more concerning if you weren't freaked out by a proposal within 6 months. It wasn't enough time. A case can be made that the guy proposed too soon and it likely ruined the relationship. If he had proposed around 2 years into the relationship, you might have said yes then. However, there's a decent chance that there would have been infidelity within that marriage. I don't buy the "oat sowing" hypothesis as I have seen men pass on sowing oats for an LTR. Some men I've seen pass on oat sowing would have had no problems sowing whereas others likely would have been vagina beggars with limited SMV appeal.

Each of the men I have been involved with have been highly desirable men

The first two from last century sound that way. That's a part of why they had sex with other women. They were able to do that. Beta Bob the office worker is a vagina beggar in most cases and can't get laid outside of his long term girlfriend or wife, who is typically average looking at best. You weren't dating the Beta Bob type. I have seen Beta Bob types during my career as a white collar worker.

"Women would rather share an alpha male than have a faithful beta male" -Rollo Tomassi

There are top tier men who do commit to women with top tier looks. It happens and it is sometimes successful.

 

[BeExcellent]

Most romantic relationships fail at some point in time. Some fail faster than others. That's why I've been a proponent of the idea of the "shelf life of monogamy". One of the key contributions to this forum that I've had is my idea that monogamous relationships have a shelf life of goodness of approximately 5 years and that's with a good frame (see Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 defined below). A lot of beta males don't even have a good enough frame to get 5 good years. Longevity of a relationship is no indicator of quality.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #1

Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of whose frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are.



It is somewhat challenging for me to see your point on that based on my own experience. You're experiences are different from mine. You're from the generation prior to my generation. You were in college almost 15 years before I was in college and it was a slightly different time. By the time I reached college in the early to mid-2000s, women of college age were rarely innocent. I can't think of any interactions I had while in college where the woman displayed traits of innocence.



It would be more concerning if you weren't freaked out by a proposal within 6 months. It wasn't enough time. A case can be made that the guy proposed too soon and it likely ruined the relationship. If he had proposed around 2 years into the relationship, you might have said yes then. However, there's a decent chance that there would have been infidelity within that marriage.



The first two from last century sound that way. That's a part of why they had sex with other women. They were able to do that. Beta Bob the office worker is a vagina beggar in most cases and can't get laid outside of his long term girlfriend or wife, who is typically average looking at best. You weren't dating the Beta Bob type. I have seen Beta Bob types during my career as a white collar worker.

"Women would rather share an alpha male than have a faithful beta male" -Rollo Tomassi

There are top tier men who do commit to women with top tier looks. It happens and it is sometimes successful.

My point is I don’t share. And I’ll drop a guy for that behavior. Period. And he’s much more replaceable than I am. So short term if a guy is a liar? He may get on for a time, but then when it comes to light? It’s simply not recoverable. He’s blown the trust. NEXT.

There’s too much demand for girl like me and I don’t need to tolerate disrespect such as dishonesty.

I am a top tier woman & therefore I require commitment from a top tier man. Simple.

 

[Gamisch]

You don't understand Patrice or else you wouldn't be talking the way you are LOL you can have your own experience, but that's basically sth like women say "my truth, your truth", there are no truths of yours of theirs, some things are objectively one way or another and that's about it. The mindset of "let her think she's in charge" unless you're doing it in a clearly joking way...reeks of blue pill mentality and that's just sad.

Oh wow look everyone. Lizard king got released from jail or something and is unhappy with the forum...our REDPILL GOD lizardking will explain life and love, so sit back and listen..STFU sivuple.

As if ,because i feel Patrice I HAVE to talk walk and act like him? Wait fellows, Patrice said some dope shyte so shut down the forum, because lizard guy pops up and says so. Besides that who the F is you?

I explained it but your peunut brain can't comprehend it. Yes , when you deal with other people you should make them feel as if they have autonomy over their own choices. Even with children.

Why don't you start by citing examples for starters where Patrice said it or confirmed your statement..let me help you. Partrice had a steady, lovely intelligent and supportive GF before he died,while you make it seem like he was some ghetto azz pimp(like you trying to be).If anything Patrice was a intelligent, funny and charming man ..the opposite of your bytchazz.


Tell me you never spend time with a quality woman without telling me you never spend time with a quality woman. Now go back to prison. And again STFU.

 

[Gamisch]

You sperg with your limited understanding of the world. So the only two levels you know in this aspect are "you let her think she's in charge" or "she's your slave wife and you control everything", right?

I never control any woman or man or person, no time or interest in doing that. Any woman or man or person will test to see if they can abuse you or not, no matter what kind of relationship you have with them. These are the cases you show them they can't abuse you and that you are in charge. This is a more complicated topic, but main point is: have yourself as your own point of origin although every woman will try and push you towards taking action and decisions that benefit her narrative, but not just women per se...everyone. Ain't gonna go deeper, you're already swimming in the blue sea of the blue pill, need to get out of there first to then come around here and maybe we can talk. Till then...keep swimming, bud.

You are extremely annoying. Who the F cares if a member is red ,blue or yellow pilled? Is that a requirement or some? Get of your high horse and say your say.

I dont see any prove you are redpill what you claim and the fact you think in pills as an definite truth is telling. Any experienced man knows that pills ,as opinions and visions of a man are always fluid and can change depending upon the situation. And thats what completely went over your head: if you actually shared your LIFE with a woman you MUST give her the freedom and space to think for herself lol. Even a boss wants to give his employees the feeling they are part of the process. You are stupid and dumb and naive simultaneously.

At least I can admit fault and give credit where its due like with Patrice.

You are one of those wanna be tough guys who adds basicaly nothing.
"Not gonna go deeper" because you are swallow as F and you CAN'T go any deeper than regurgitating cliches from your ghetto azz "dating coaches".

I can tell you never been with a quality woman. You think you said anything new by saying; Any woman or man or person will test to see if they can abuse you or not, no matter what kind of relationship you have with them.
Pathetic and sad if you have to live with your guard up your entire life,and didn't even managed to set your life up in such a way that at least the people in your life and circle are trustworthy. Also expains why you think you must be mr tough guy ALL THE fecking TImE.

Your post reeks of the wrong hoodlum mentality. I have respect for every one in general but domt come at me personally when you dont know me boi. I dont know your bytchazz but if you wanna roll lets roll homeboy. Now stfu please and go read more redpill qoutes so your hoodrats can be somewhat constrained.

 

[BeExcellent]

Yea sometimes I wonder if it is pesticide related or some form of chemical combination.

Lots of estrogenic crap in food these days. Plastics too, which are terrible for you; heavy metals.

What I did (being in healthcare & concerned about such things since my kids were infants) was buy 100% organic groceries, non GMO foods, zero processed foods, and most everything in glass or paper packaging rather than plastics. I was so strict I even sent school lunches daily in wax paper baggies rather than plastic sandwich baggies; and my children were forbidden to eat the food served at school.

Now. This decision is an expensive one. I also did not allow my children to eat beef at all for many years because of all the hormones and the same with dairy. To this day any milk or beef I buy for the home remains organic, as are all other foods, and still in glass.

I also buy bottled still water in glass (also not cheap) for cooking and drinking. That is cases of bottled water in glass every month.

But my results speak volumes. My son is very masculine & all my children are extremely healthy, almost never sick throughout their lives. My health and appearance are also quite good and youthful for my age.

I spent money on the best food rather than vacations or fancy cars etc. My children are very healthy as a result (diet is a tremendous influence on health status as is well known.)