Why I think men struggle with women in modern dating today

[DonJuanjr]

BUT, i think we slowly see a shift. Recently all the women I meet or know absolutely hate OLD. They've been piling up bad experiences, and they long for the good old days when they would dress nice,knowing that some fellow would make a move on them. Nowadays men don't approach. OLD attention isn't as valuable as real life attention.

This to me, sounds like they're longing to be wined and dined after giving out the goods for free to who knows how many dudes...

 

[SW15]

This was a mainly 'water is wet' type post. There were some decent points in it. I'll offer my point of view to each of the points made by @CornbreadFed .

Laziness and Scarcity Mindset

Most men just do not want to put in the work or sweat to raise their smv, dating skills, and market themselves appropriately. In addition, these men probably get at most 3 real shots with a girl and they strike out due to lack of experience and desperation. As a result, these men become black pilled keyboard jockeys that just want to sit on the internet and complain all of the time. Remember a .300 batting average is considered above average in the MLB, so obsessing and crying over that one girl that rejected you is pitiful.

Laziness is a bit of a problem in Western culture. That's seen in a lot of different areas. Dating is one of them.

There are plenty of gym going men who aren't getting enough attention from women.

Self-improvement is a good thing but it can only go so far. There was a recent thread on here about it. Notice that women never talk about improving themselves. Yes, I know "women are, men must become". It is a bit one-sided, but then again most of dating in Western nations is one-sided. It is an accurate observation to say that, and not black pill.

The issue with telling men to work on self improvement

I've been seeing an interesting trend with mainstream media and youtube, where there is a lot of content recently discussing the issues that young men are experiencing with the modern dating market. There was one piece on CNN saying that over 60% of men were single while around 1/3 women were in...

www.sosuave.net

Scarcity is a big problem. The average man feels the scarcity problem. It's difficult to put into words these feelings that many men feel, but most men know that feeling.

The scarcity feeling pops up when you swipe on hundreds to thousands of women, get a less than 1% match rate, and barely arrange any dates from the effort.

The scarcity feeling pops up when you do multiple approach sessions during the day and don't arrange dates. Getting ignored and rejected during daytime approach sessions is a bad feeling.

The scarcity feeling pops up when you go out to a bar, make approach attempts, and end up going home near closing time somewhat intoxicated and pissed off that you didn't get laid or arrange a date/get a number that night.

Scarcity feelings occur when you work hard for prospects, like in the examples above but have prospects ghost and flake.

As women experience more abundance, men experience more scarcity.

Unrealistic expectations-

I know a lot of men that are average or below average in smv and expect to only score hot women. This leads to long dry spells or them being taken advantage over by some hot single mom or some control freak girl/gold digger that values power or money over looks. They choose either pornhub or the short seat in the relationship. Know where you stand in smv and if you are not satisfied by it then improve it. Last, swallow the pill that a 6/10 girl is not on the same level as a 6/10 men. If you want a woman that is remotely attractive with no baggage, you are going to have to work for it.

There's some merit to this. The overall environment has made it more difficult for men to even score with their looks equal though.

Men are very willing to drop their standards, so I don't see this as a major issue.

Logistics-

Plain and simple, you do not live in an area around a lot of single women or you live in your mom’s basement.

Living with parents is going to be a major issue for adult men for a lot of reasons.

There are a lot of men who either live in smaller areas (under 150,000 metro population) or in the suburbs of larger areas near families. Both those situations are more difficult. The guy in the larger metro area in the suburbs might be able to compete a little bit better but that's a weak competitive position.

If you're a man living alone/with roommates in a populated area in the part of that metro area near the most unmarried people, you have passable logistics. Living within walking distance of bars will help you in getting same night lays at bars and possible first date lays if the walking distance bars are good date bars. It's more difficult to get same night lays/first date lays when there's a need to use ride share apps or drive. There are guys with passable logistics but logistics more conducive to in-person approaches, 2nd-3rd date bangs, and relationships.

A lot of men even with passable logistics aren't spending enough time doing approaches in the real world. Approaching strangers to arrange dates is very time consuming and that's a responsibility on top of working, seeing male friends, and doing household tasks.

Do not market to their target market-

A lot of guys buy a supply of umbrellas and attempt to sell them in Phoenix, Arizona instead of Seattle, Washington. I see a lot of this in brown guys that try so hard to get blonde white women that only want Chads. You want to know how uglier guys get hotter girls? They appeal to a certain market. There’s a market literally for EVERYTHING. This 10/10 is a vegan and she will only date another vegan, and it just so happens that your looks are good enough for her to date you anyway. Whatever your interests, personality, hobbies, and etc are, I am sure there is a girl out there that has a strong preference for it. PUAs and gurus have done a great job in brainwashing men in to being fake masculine mindless robots instead of being yourself. I am sure there’s a market of women that like mindless dull men that are obsessed with pill ideology, but it is really small lol. The point is to be putting yourself out there to women that will find you attractive. If you naturally have an introverted/nerdy personality, why are you going out to bars and clubs to find women?

This is a real factor. A lot of men have difficulty conceptualizing the market and which women will find him most appealing. There are plenty of men who waste time pursuing the wrong markets. I think it's more common for a guy not to have an obvious target market. There are guys who are like 5.5-7 or so in looks who are appealing to women to not automatically get rejected but not appealing enough to be women's top choices. Some of those men without an obvious niche are likely to struggle, often getting passed over for 'Chads'.

The marketing issues you identify are up there with scarcity and laziness as 2 of the biggest problems in a lot of cases. Unrealistic expectations are logistical problems are smaller issues as I see them.

 

[CornbreadFed]

To the posters complaining about this post not being unique. Wake up call, 99% of dating advice is the same thing recycled over and over again. The goal of my topics to ensure meaningful discussion that doesn’t revolve around novice level dating issues or the typical help me save my girl thread where I only give you 50% of the situation.

You guys want a lot of night game/day game topics? Sorry, those aren’t my style and I much prefer the convenience of OLD.

 

[HaleyBaron]

To the posters complaining about this post not being unique. Wake up call, 99% of dating advice is the same thing recycled over and over again. The goal of my topics to ensure meaningful discussion that doesn’t revolve around novice level dating issues or the typical help me save my girl thread where I only give you 50% of the situation.

You guys want a lot of night game/day game topics? Sorry, those aren’t my style and I much prefer the convenience of OLD.

You're not the first to come here with this and certainly not the last. The problem with your thread is that you're jumping into the pool of sharks telling us how to find food. It's almost incredibly autistic if not outright egotistical af. As if you are trying to posture that your nuts are bigger than ours. It's cringe.

You also are unaware how stuff goes here because you continue to keep trying to shove your way into the dynamics of this forum. And instead of listening to the warnings, you are just downplaying everyone around you and saying you are right, which just makes you look worse already as a newbie. When I said sit and listen, I meant it to keep you from embarrassing yourself. You may be the biggest player on the planet, but you're not doing any favors acting like a big shot right out the gate.

 

[BadBoy89]

Unfortunately we aren't quite there yet .......men are still idolising them for simply existing

Correction: men idolize hot women under 30 who are fertile with 0 kids and 0 divorces.

No one idolizes a girl over 30. No one idolizes a single mother. No one idolizes a fat woman. No one idolizes an ugly women.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Correction: men idolize hot women under 30 who are fertile with 0 kids and 0 divorces.

No one idolizes a girl over 30. No one idolizes a single mother. No one idolizes a fat woman. No one idolizes an ugly women.

The way it works is that while men do simp for 30+ women, they are doing it in a way that they know that the woman is only good for quick ****s. Which is why most of the men who DM or comment is always saying some sexual compliment. Contrast that with how men talk to a woman that is valuable like young women. They hardly if ever bring anything sexual up cause they know she is a gold standard and could scare her away. Meanwhile, all the women you listed are used goods, sluts, and/ or not worth marrying. Even if you scare them away, you have less care for doing so.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Correction: men idolize hot women under 30 who are fertile with 0 kids and 0 divorces.

Shouldn't be idolising them at all

its not that difficult to have a pu$$y , a pair of T!ts and a decent figure

Yet some men seem to repeatedly treat them as if they are they rarest things on earth

Very bizarre

 

[CornbreadFed]

You're not the first to come here with this and certainly not the last. The problem with your thread is that you're jumping into the pool of sharks telling us how to find food. It's almost incredibly autistic if not outright egotistical af. As if you are trying to posture that your nuts are bigger than ours. It's cringe.

You also are unaware how stuff goes here because you continue to keep trying to shove your way into the dynamics of this forum. And instead of listening to the warnings, you are just downplaying everyone around you and saying you are right, which just makes you look worse already as a newbie. When I said sit and listen, I meant it to keep you from embarrassing yourself. You may be the biggest player on the planet, but you're not doing any favors acting like a big shot right out the gate.

I honestly do not give a flying fvck about what you have to say. Good job wasting two paragraphs or whatever you posted because I ignored 99% of it.

 

[Robert28]

nternet.

Woman use to have to settle, now they can go online and try to get the pick of the litter. And there are predators happy to lean to that. So they experience a lot of bad relationships (but hey the guy was hot at least) and it turns them off from the whole thing.

Others are taught to never “settle” and so they don’t, and remain lonely and single mentally converting it to a win instead of simply relaxing their standards.

On the guy side, we simple cannot compete with the list of physical and mental requirements, disqualified for things beyond control like height, age, hair pattern etc.

So yeah the days of the meet cute, the days of “close enough”, the days of “ticks most but not all the boxes” are gone. It’s tick 100% of the boxes, your opening line better charm me, and do not say the wrong thing for at least the first month worth of dates. Players can hold that standard long enough to get what they want before move on, the rest that do want more make some mistake and it’s over.

Keep in mind that very thing I describe is based either before actually meet or just first month of dating. If can get past first month might have a real chance but getting that far is the hardest part of it all because of everything mentioned above.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Shouldn't be idolising them at all

its not that difficult to have a pu$$y , a pair of T!ts and a decent figure

Yet some men seem to repeatedly treat them as if they are they rarest things on earth

Very bizarre

He obsesses over them in every post haha.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Good stuff, but it's all been said before. I think the big one is laziness. We live in a time where I think the "mid-tier" guys are of lower quality than compared to mid tier guys in times past. This leads even more women to the guys who are in the higher tiers, and reaffirms the idea of scarcity to the lazy guys

I don’t have a scarcity mindset I just know I’m mostly priced out of the market. It is what it is

 

[Robert28]

I don’t have a scarcity mindset I just know I’m mostly priced out of the market. It is what it is

Yeah I don’t get how so many guys on here think you can snap your fingers and have an abundance of women. Most guys struggle to get ONE, how the hell you think theyre going to develop a rotation of women? In theory it works, but the execution of making it happen is the problem.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Yeah I don’t get how so many guys on here think you can snap your fingers and have an abundance of women. Most guys struggle to get ONE, how the hell you think theyre going to develop a rotation of women? In theory it works, but the execution of making it happen is the problem.

Most guys struggle to get THE ONE girl not a girl. If you raise your smv and put yourself out there to women, you will have a much higher success rate at getting a woman. Most guys don’t want to put in the work and want to take 1-5 shots at best.

 

[Robert28]

Most guys struggle to get THE ONE girl not a girl. If you raise your smv and put yourself out there to women, you will have a much higher success rate at getting a woman. Most guys don’t want to put in the work and want to take 1-5 shots at best.

If you get bitten by a snake 1-5 times are you gonna keep picking up snakes or are you going to say “fvck this!”

 

[CornbreadFed]

If you get bitten by a snake 1-5 times are you gonna keep picking up snakes or are you going to say “fvck this!”

A Scarcity mindset makes you more prone to snake bites than anything else. When you just focus on the one girl that gave you a slight IOI, you are investing all of your resources in to one basket that’s not even vetted properly. If this girl screws you over then yes it’s like getting bit by a venom @$$ snake lol.

vs

When you take shots at more than a few women, you do not give them any room to bite you because you are at a safer distance. A girl flaking on you won’t mean shvt because there’s another one to replace her. This will also give you the ability to vet out a girl for LTR potential because you have an active selection of women instead of LTRing the first girl that touches your weenie.

 

[MatureDJ]

A man needs to be tall , he needs to be witty , he needs to be confident , he needs to have money & be wealthy , he needs to have a car , he needs to be fit , he needs to be a pillar of the local community

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It used to be the case that an average woman would settle for 1 or 2 attributes knowing her own value wasn't really high enough to demand more

It's OVER for LessThan3AttributeCels.

 

[Ricky]

T

This to me, sounds like they're longing to be wined and dined after giving out the goods for free to who knows how many dudes...

I think they are. The old model of wine, dine and 69 worked well for me.

i am a foodie so i didnt mind taking women to more interesting restaurants to expand their culinary knowledge

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Women are always throwing hints. A lot of guys don’t pick up on them. Of course, some women are just outright bold. But it’s the subtle hints tgst are often missed.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Women are always throwing hints. A lot of guys don’t pick up on them. Of course, some women are just outright bold. But it’s the subtle hints tgst are often missed.

If a lot of guys don't pick up on them, care to give a couple examples?

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Men struggle with womens expectations not their own

A man needs to be tall , he needs to be witty , he needs to be confident , he needs to have money & be wealthy , he needs to have a car , he needs to be fit , he needs to be a pillar of the local community

Nope. Just be handsome.