The Wheels Came Off

[Macadellic]

6. Be a serial monogamist forever

This option means that you have a constant stream of short-term (three years or less) monogamous relationships, one after the next, for the rest of your life, even well into your old age.

I've enjoyed these the most. About the only thing that would interest me. Keeps it fun and fresh with some level of commitment. The guy still has freedom. The drawback is the time you waste going back and forth between two houses but it could be worse!

My past three LTRs have been this.

 

[The Duke]

My past three LTRs have been this.

Did you live with any of them?

 

[DonJuanjr]

Getting Howie's/Dukes perspective of the current dating market and examples is a plus...

 

[BeExcellent]

I'd feel like I was paying for her, and a provider role is not for me so I never offered it.

Ok well then this is the natural consequence. You cannot expect her to give up her means of meeting her financial obligations to simply founder financially.

You were unwilling to facilitate her prioritizing you. So you are causative. If you facilitate and she submits? Happiness ensues. You cannot reasonably expect her to lessen her ability to look after herself with no assistance from you.

Think about that. You essentially drove her away from that standpoint.

You know I respect you a great deal. Calling it like I see it my friend.

Cheers

 

[Macadellic]

Did you live with any of them?

Yes with all three.

 

[SW15]

I've enjoyed these the most. About the only thing that would interest me. Keeps it fun and fresh with some level of commitment. The guy still has freedom. The drawback is the time you waste going back and forth between two houses but it could be worse!

Option 6 (serial monogamist forever) is an option that many men find appealing. It's an option where there is a committed relationship but avoids the worst elements of Option 1 (Traditional Monogamous Marriage) and Option 2 (Serial Monogamous Marriage).

You are freshly out of a live in girlfriend option that didn't last permanently and you had a marriage end in the 2000s. Most relationships end and when they end, it's not a pleasant ending. Option 6 without living together limits the damage done at the end of relationships.

The most damaging endings to men occur when Option 1 ends and Option 2 ends, especially with children.

Most never married men who are 30+ have a male friend or acquaintance who has had an Option 1 or Option 2 type marriage end. I've already seen this with a few people I know and am likely to see more of this in the next 10 years among my friends and social connections. Almost all my male friends and acquaintances over the years have chosen the Traditional Monogamous Marriage path and many have had kids in their Traditional Monogamous Marriage, putting themselves at great risk in the future or having had already experienced a divorce with children involved. Even a childless divorce is an unpleasant ending. You know from your experience in the 2000s that it is likely to have a monogamous marriage end at some point in the future prior to one person dying.

Even when a Traditional Monogamous Marriage doesn't end, there's a good chance that it isn't a quality relationship and at least one partner has an affair at some point. It would be challenging for a man who values his masculinity to stay in a marriage after his wife has an affair. Plenty of beta males who get criticized on this forum constantly decide to leave marriages when it is discovered that their wives have affairs.

Yes, you're correct that a man will retain some freedom in an unmarried, serial monogamous relationship when he doesn't live with his girlfriend.

Two homeowners dating each other is more difficult to manage in an LTR but is more common in committed relationship when both partners are 30+. When the two partners live apart, some of the challenges of two homeowner relationships are lessened. When two homeowners form a relationships in their 30s and beyond, merging households becomes difficult in serious relationships. One of the homeowners often ends up selling. It's possible for one homeowner to use the house as a rental. One partner turning into a landlord while married or living with a romantic partner creates some challenges.

A lot of women end up as homeowners prior to marriage because they are uncomfortable with being lifelong renters for a variety of reasons. One common reason is that Millennial women have had extremely high pet ownership rates and certain dog breeds are not good fits for apartments. This leads Millennial women into either renting a single family house with a backyard (typically a shorter term solution of 2-4 years) or buying a house. At age 46, older Millennials women are likely a good part of your target market, since older Millennials are 35-41 years old now right now. It's important to understand how these women have typically been living their lives up to this point.

In a serial monogamous relationship model, most of these relationships will fail when the woman realizes that you have no intention of getting married or living with her. The relationships will typically fail around the 2-3 year point. You might be able to get 5 years out of this type of relationship with a strong frame (Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 -- Frame is Everything). Not living together enhances a frame. Even with a good frame, very few women will agree to an LTR that extends more than 2-5 years without living together and/or getting legally married. That's a combination of social conditioning and a biological desire to secure commitment. The women who are more inclined to stay in this type of relationship longer are more likely to be career-oriented women, typically 35+ and childless in many cases. It's difficult to even imagine a career-oriented older Millennial childless woman being in this type of relationship for more than 5 years.

Your frame of not wanting to live with future girlfriends is more likely to attract career-oriented women, similar to your most recent ex-girlfriend. The difference in the future as compared to your present/recent events is that the uncoupling will be less complicated.

With the unmarried serial monogamist path and the likelihood that you will be dating women 35+ in the future, it's likely that you'll be dating career-oriented women, especially if you choose childless women. If you want to avoid career-oriented women, you're likely ending up with some single mom with an unspectacular job of some kind.

You have some interesting choices to make in the near future and I expect that the information in the post can help guide those choices.

 

[Gamisch]

4 year ltr end in your 40s. What the hell?

I expect you to been ahead of the time of your life where you "settle down" and found the person to die with.

Though, what do I know? I hate relationships for the same reason I love them.

Edit: grammar

Yeah you are 21 now. 40 literally is twice your entire lifetime right now, so it seems like its a lifetime away.

But older women (lets say 35+) are perhaps even crazier than the younger ones. As we age we will damage our systems. Love and bonding is closely related to traumatic experiences and stress.

I recently dated a 40 y.o woman and man
..she was by far the most emotional and unstable person I've ever been with. Due her past of failed LTR's her patient was nonexistent. Love bombs from day 1, fed up with my "lack of commitment "on day 7.

In this dating environment you will be 60 and face the same problems a 20 y.o man will face IF you dont understand the game. The Duke's situation shows that there are many, many layers to relationships. Both people must align perfectly, and keep this alignment intact overtime. Nearly impossible to keep this up for a " lifetime".

 

[CornbreadFed]

Yeah you are 21 now. 40 literally is twice your entire lifetime right now, so it seems like its a lifetime away.

But older women (lets say 35+) are perhaps even crazier than the younger ones. As we age we will damage our systems. Love and bonding is closely related to traumatic experiences and stress.

I recently dated a 40 y.o woman and man
..she was by far the most emotional and unstable person I've ever been with. Due her past of failed LTR's her patient was nonexistent. Love bombs from day 1, fed up with my "lack of commitment "on day 7.

In this dating environment you will be 60 and face the same problems a 20 y.o man will face IF you dont understand the game. The Duke's situation shows that there are many, many layers to relationships. Both people must align perfectly, and keep this alignment intact overtime. Nearly impossible to keep this up for a " lifetime".

Older woman can be more dangerous than younger women because they have learned and mastered the skills of manipulation and bait and switching. Usually women get humbled in their mid 20s-early 30s and they come out of it like saiyans do after they have a near death experience.

 

[The Duke]

Option 6 (serial monogamist forever) is an option that many men find appealing. It's an option where there is a committed relationship but avoids the worst elements of Option 1 (Traditional Monogamous Marriage) and Option 2 (Serial Monogamous Marriage).

You are freshly out of a live in girlfriend option that didn't last permanently and you had a marriage end in the 2000s. Most relationships end and when they end, it's not a pleasant ending. Option 6 without living together limits the damage done at the end of relationships.

The most damaging endings to men occur when Option 1 ends and Option 2 ends, especially with children.

Most never married men who are 30+ have a male friend or acquaintance who has had an Option 1 or Option 2 type marriage end. I've already seen this with a few people I know and am likely to see more of this in the next 10 years among my friends and social connections. Almost all my male friends and acquaintances over the years have chosen the Traditional Monogamous Marriage path and many have had kids in their Traditional Monogamous Marriage, putting themselves at great risk in the future or having had already experienced a divorce with children involved. Even a childless divorce is an unpleasant ending. You know from your experience in the 2000s that it is likely to have a monogamous marriage end at some point in the future prior to one person dying.

Even when a Traditional Monogamous Marriage doesn't end, there's a good chance that it isn't a quality relationship and at least one partner has an affair at some point. It would be challenging for a man who values his masculinity to stay in a marriage after his wife has an affair. Plenty of beta males who get criticized on this forum constantly decide to leave marriages when it is discovered that their wives have affairs.

Yes, you're correct that a man will retain some freedom in an unmarried, serial monogamous relationship when he doesn't live with his girlfriend.

Two homeowners dating each other is more difficult to manage in an LTR but is more common in committed relationship when both partners are 30+. When the two partners live apart, some of the challenges of two homeowner relationships are lessened. When two homeowners form a relationships in their 30s and beyond, merging households becomes difficult in serious relationships. One of the homeowners often ends up selling. It's possible for one homeowner to use the house as a rental. One partner turning into a landlord while married or living with a romantic partner creates some challenges.

A lot of women end up as homeowners prior to marriage because they are uncomfortable with being lifelong renters for a variety of reasons. One common reason is that Millennial women have had extremely high pet ownership rates and certain dog breeds are not good fits for apartments. This leads Millennial women into either renting a single family house with a backyard (typically a shorter term solution of 2-4 years) or buying a house. At age 46, older Millennials women are likely a good part of your target market, since older Millennials are 35-41 years old now right now. It's important to understand how these women have typically been living their lives up to this point.

In a serial monogamous relationship model, most of these relationships will fail when the woman realizes that you have no intention of getting married or living with her. The relationships will typically fail around the 2-3 year point. You might be able to get 5 years out of this type of relationship with a strong frame (Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 -- Frame is Everything). Not living together enhances a frame. Even with a good frame, very few women will agree to an LTR that extends more than 2-5 years without living together and/or getting legally married. That's a combination of social conditioning and a biological desire to secure commitment. The women who are more inclined to stay in this type of relationship longer are more likely to be career-oriented women, typically 35+ and childless in many cases. It's difficult to even imagine a career-oriented older Millennial childless woman being in this type of relationship for more than 5 years.

Your frame of not wanting to live with future girlfriends is more likely to attract career-oriented women, similar to your most recent ex-girlfriend. The difference in the future as compared to your present/recent events is that the uncoupling will be less complicated.

With the unmarried serial monogamist path and the likelihood that you will be dating women 35+ in the future, it's likely that you'll be dating career-oriented women, especially if you choose childless women. If you want to avoid career-oriented women, you're likely ending up with some single mom with an unspectacular job of some kind.

You have some interesting choices to make in the near future and I expect that the information in the post can help guide those choices.

My first live in LTR sold her house and moved in with me. She was a single mom, never married. Her son was close to 20 at the time so he was on his own. She made good money put wasn't a career chic. She had a hint of crazy in her so her insecurities caused some issues. Deep down she wanted marriage(still believed in the fairy tale), and when I wouldn't give her that she then wanted her name on my house. That was the final straw. So she went and found herself a guy 10yrs older that bought her a fancy house and put her name on it. He also married her. And guess what???? I still hear from her, and I know her marriage isn't great.

 

[The Duke]

Ok well then this is the natural consequence. You cannot expect her to give up her means of meeting her financial obligations to simply founder financially.

You were unwilling to facilitate her prioritizing you. So you are causative. If you facilitate and she submits? Happiness ensues. You cannot reasonably expect her to lessen her ability to look after herself with no assistance from you.

Think about that. You essentially drove her away from that standpoint.

You know I respect you a great deal. Calling it like I see it my friend.

Cheers

I get where you are coming from. But, I never wanted to be "the" priority. Just some balance. She was getting plenty of financial and physical assistance from me.

Who do you know that gets to live in a $1.2million dollar place for $1800/mo that goes toward ownership and all other bills are paid by yours truly. And she makes $240k/yr. Money isn't the problem.

I guess she can find an apartment for $2000/mo and horse boarding for $2500/mo. She'll be worse off financially.

You don't think that's facilitating enough to at least demand some work/life balance as far as prioritizing goes?

 

[DonJuanjr]

What should have been the canary in the coal mine is her diminishing desire.

Which in my experience, the first thing is lack of interest in djck sucking.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Which in my experience, the first thing is lack of interest in djck sucking.

I remember a previous LTR I had: "I dont like sucking d1ck anymore"

One of the most giant red flags out there, and I missed it (It did strike me as a bit odd but I didnt think much of it back then, the implications).

Oh well. You live and you learn.

 

[Dr.Suave]

What was meant with "she needed a guy that would lay down for her"?

English is not my first language.

 

[Barrister]

I get where you are coming from. But, I never wanted to be "the" priority. Just some balance. She was getting plenty of financial and physical assistance from me.

Who do you know that gets to live in a $1.2million dollar place for $1800/mo that goes toward ownership and all other bills are paid by yours truly. And she makes $240k/yr. Money isn't the problem.

I guess she can find an apartment for $2000/mo and horse boarding for $2500/mo. She'll be worse off financially.

You don't think that's facilitating enough to at least demand some work/life balance as far as prioritizing goes?

What I have found is that women don't often appreciate the passive "providing" that we men (who typically are the breadwinners) do for them. You are approaching this very logically - you provided her shelter, provided her horse shelter, paid the bills for the home, paid the mortgage, etc. which added up to thousands of dollars worth of value each month and which you (logically and rightfully) see as a huge benefit to her. And you did that out of the kindness of your heart without asking her for a dime. You probably expected her to be very grateful and put out as a result.

Women don't care about this. Women care about your overt acts that involve them directly. Your passive benefits you provide mean very little in the day to day management of your relationship with them. It's sad, but unless there is something tangible they can look at it means almost nothing in how they feel about you.

 

[member160292]

Which in my experience, the first thing is lack of interest in djck sucking.

Yup, all my plates should give a bj to completion when I ask for it in the morning

Of course, I would give them tongue/finger to climax when we have sex. Any hesitation to not milk you shows they aren’t putting their man’s interest first and opens the door for him to find it elsewhere. Aka, not LTR material

 

[The Duke]

What I have found is that women don't often appreciate the passive "providing" that we men (who typically are the breadwinners) do for them. You are approaching this very logically - you provided her shelter, provided her horse shelter, paid the bills for the home, paid the mortgage, etc. which added up to thousands of dollars worth of value each month and which you (logically and rightfully) see as a huge benefit to her. And you did that out of the kindness of your heart without asking her for a dime. You probably expected her to be very grateful and put out as a result.

Women don't care about this. Women care about your overt acts that involve them directly. Your passive benefits you provide mean very little in the day to day management of your relationship with them. It's sad, but unless there is something tangible they can look at it means almost nothing in how they feel about you.

Very true, I just brought that point up in regards to BeExcellent's comment. It was more the day to day things I did for her, there was little to no appreciation. Once it became an expectation I pulled away. The 5 Love languages explains a lot of this. Different folks assign different values. One needs to be cognizant of the others if its to ever work long term. It makes it easier when you both speak the same languages.

 

[member160292]

Very true, I just brought that point up in regards to BeExcellent's comment. It was more the day to day things I did for her, there was little to no appreciation. Once it became an expectation I pulled away. The 5 Love languages explains a lot of this. Different folks assign different values. One needs to be cognizant of the others if its to ever work long term. It makes it easier when you both speak the same languages.

People don’t know how good they had it until it’s gone.

Planning on keeping her around as a plate if she comes back?

 

[The Duke]

You maybe happy and moving on but I will view this post like I do the rest. Objective redpill lense.

Should have never had this talk. If a girl becomes a slob, you don't run errands, you don't pick up after her. She gave no time for you. Take responsibility that you were waiting around for her and then had "the chat".

She heard this as "Im not dominate attractive desirable enough to submit too"

Why? Millions of career women worldwide have men in their lives. They still are submitting to someone.

Women dont "work it out" they comply to a desired dominate man. And no that has nothing to do with her career status or money. Everything to do with you.
You stated that this was the most disappointing part of all this tells me you are missing some key fundamentals in your ability to look at this objectively without getting your emotions involved.
This is the opposite of desire.
Expecting a woman to work like this is wrong.
It is easier to deal with a stalker girl then it is to expect a girl to work it out.

I think there is a ton more your not telling us because her behavior points to something else going on and your breakdown of this is all blame on her and not taking responsibility of were you dropped the ball.
Everyone chooses to give a fck about something and you gave a fck more about her then she did you.

Sorry Howie but this wreaks of cope and I have a feeling as positive as you sound your bottom has not yet happened.
You will be drunk texting and emailing her before too long raging about how she picked a career over a great guy like you.
The cycle is the same until we own our shyt.

I appreciate your info and concern, but it has made me cringe because its so misdirected. Thats so not me.

 

[The Duke]

People don’t know how good they had it until it’s gone.

Planning on keeping her around as a plate if she comes back?

No, once I'm done I'm done.

 

[SW15]

What I have found is that women don't often appreciate the passive "providing" that we men (who typically are the breadwinners) do for them. You are approaching this very logically - you provided her shelter, provided her horse shelter, paid the bills for the home, paid the mortgage, etc. which added up to thousands of dollars worth of value each month and which you (logically and rightfully) see as a huge benefit to her. And you did that out of the kindness of your heart without asking her for a dime. You probably expected her to be very grateful and put out as a result.

In a Growing Share of U.S. Marriages, Husbands and Wives Earn About the Same

Among married couples in the U.S., women’s financial contributions have grown steadily over the last half century. Even when earnings are similar, husbands spend more time on paid work and leisure, while wives devote more time to caregiving and housework.

www.pewresearch.org

Pew Research Center published some stats recently about male breadwinning in marital relationships. It's not as common as you think. Men are only contributing 60%+ of total household income in 55% of 2022's marriages. Those are "Husband Primary" and "Husband Sole" breadwinner relationships.



It would be logical for a man to expect more when he does passive providing.

Women don't care about this. Women care about your overt acts that involve them directly. Your passive benefits you provide mean very little in the day to day management of your relationship with them. It's sad, but unless there is something tangible they can look at it means almost nothing in how they feel about you.

Agree with this.