Under What Circumstances Should a Guy Give Up Entirely?

[needimprovement250]

Your deeply limiting yourself by never trying.

I mean, I would probably be more likely to try OLD even though I know that has a lot of downsides too. I just can’t let go of the opinion that as soon as a woman finds out that I have no experience, she’ll instantly lose interest in me. I’ve even read stories where guys around my age that are also inexperienced went out with women who were interested in them and it was going really well, but as soon as they found out the guy had no experience, they turned cold on him right away.

 

[Epicwinguy]

I mean, I would probably be more likely to try OLD even though I know that has a lot of downsides too. I just can’t let go of the opinion that as soon as a woman finds out that I have no experience, she’ll instantly lose interest in me. I’ve even read stories where guys around my age that are also inexperienced went out with women who were interested in them and it was going really well, but as soon as they found out the guy had no experience, they turned cold on him right away.

If you do go on the path of cold approaches, stay away from Fresh and Fit and RSDNation.

 

[corrector]

I'm going to add this to my escort photo fap collection.

Are you really going to do that? I thought the type of photos that go on your collection would be a reasonable prospect you could actually visit the escort. That's called tangibility that she could be yours with a phone call, cash, visit, etc... Otherwise, it's just a photo.

 

[corrector]

I mean, I would probably be more likely to try OLD even though I know that has a lot of downsides too. I just can’t let go of the opinion that as soon as a woman finds out that I have no experience, she’ll instantly lose interest in me. I’ve even read stories where guys around my age that are also inexperienced went out with women who were interested in them and it was going really well, but as soon as they found out the guy had no experience, they turned cold on him right away.

That means you are getting traction on OLD? (ie, likes, messages, exchanges, etc....) You know there is a numbers game for that too? You can't really say that EVERY woman would find your inexperience off-putting. Even if you take that to an extreme and feel that way, then if 1 out of 10 women, who you got to the place that she's interested in you, but instead of being put-off finds it endearing and is further turned-on by your inexperience, then wouldn't it make it worth it in the end? It is more likely you are not generating enough volume in the first place, or it's too tedious to set up one date over time, but then wouldn't that be a look's issue rather than an inexperience issue?

If there is enough volume of women you are meeting, then you are bound to find at least one women eventually who will like you for who you are, or see something in you that's redeeming to whatever you feel is a deficiency.

You had this other thread written the other day of this chap who put up chad-model photos on his OLD profile. He had such a high volume, that when he switched the photos and put his real ones up, he lost a sizable number of them, but then there were some others along that list that still met him after all that anyway. That is an example where just generating the RAW volume can yield results and shows some women just do not care within that volume.

 

[Epicwinguy]

That means you are getting traction on OLD? (ie, likes, messages, exchanges, etc....) You know there is a numbers game for that too? You can't really say that EVERY woman would find your inexperience off-putting. Even if you take that to an extreme and feel that way, then if 1 out of 10 women, who you got to the place that she's interested in you, but instead of being put-off finds it endearing and is further turned-on by your inexperience, then wouldn't it make it worth it in the end? It is more likely you are not generating enough volume in the first place, or it's too tedious to set up one date over time, but then wouldn't that be a look's issue rather than an inexperience issue?

If there is enough volume of women you are meeting, then you are bound to find at least one women eventually who will like you for who you are, or see something in you that's redeeming to whatever you feel is a deficiency.

You had this other thread written the other day of this chap who put up chad-model photos on his OLD profile. He had such a high volume, that when he switched the photos and put his real ones up, he lost a sizable number of them, but then there were some others along that list that still met him after all that anyway. That is an example where just generating the RAW volume can yield results and shows some women just do not care within that volume.

Corrector, you don't strike me as the type to know this much about game, but you really sound like you know what you're talking about right here.

 

[corrector]

Corrector, you don't strike me as the type to know this much about game, but you really sound like you know what you're talking about right here.

I don't post any differently than how I usually post, and there is no specific game mentioned on this post other than a life-fuel that was contributed by another member who did that experiement that was referenced. A numbers game is not a true game anyway. True game would be "faking it until making it", or either downplaying with half-truths (ie "I don't kiss and tell", or say she is the first or you have no experience, but in a jeering / sarcastic tone rather than a sad/timid so it comes like you are joking with her rather than serious but are not factually lying, etc...) or avoiding the subject altogether if she brings that up. That is game. Falling flat on your face and hoping the next girl gives you a break, is not game, but it does work sometimes.

My personal issue is not inexperience. I feel that I have enough experience, it is just very limited experience, but enough that I don't really care about that. You see what happens with people like me is that when you eventually do meet a girl that takes you on, you have a bucket list already sorted out to do things, or take her things and are more focused on building memories and experience that basically outlive the relationship if things to south. If I look at it there is not much left on that bucket list unless I'm either living with someone, or going horseback riding or travelling to another country with them, as allot of check-marks have already been crossed-off from the past relationships I have had in the past.

 

[MatureDJ]

I’m turning 30 this summer and never had a gf and only 1 date 8 years ago. I’m almost at that point now, just feels hopeless.

Wizard

Wizard is generally agreed upon as what to call a guy who's attained thirty years of age and retained virginity. Other terms have gradually become associated with...

incels.wiki

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

@corrector

We do not always agree on things, but you’ve been around consistently and I’ve become familiar with your situations as such.

My statement is : you’re clearly an intelligent man, and you have absorbed so much from this site - the issue is your almost black pill at this point.

My point is that you’re thinking too much now. You have yourself convinced you’re not worthy so it manifests itself in your life. Yes you have some structural issues, but they’re not insurmountable.

Are you seeking female companionship? Or are you analyzing yourself out of doing it? Unless you’re a one legged troll you should be able to get laid. If you do attempt to meet women, are you shooting for looksmatched women? Or shooting so high that it’s impossible based on your SMV?

I’m nowhere near chadlite territory, I’m less than 6’ tall, yet I’m getting laid regularly by women who I find very attractive. I’ve got two decades on you.

You need to snap out of it and start putting yourself out there.

 

[Igetit!]

Never have, don’t believe in its effectiveness. No women want to be a 30 year old guy’s first gf anyway, so it is what it is I guess.

You don't believe in the effectiveness of cold approaching?

Sir..........you said you've NEVER had a girlfriend......and had ONE DATE.....8 years ago. This is what your CURRENT "strategy" has produced. And you feel that is more effective than cold-approaching would be???

I've been here at this forum going on nearly 15 years. Most of the guys who come here seeking advice generally fall into one of two types of categories: 1: The guy who makes a thread seeking advice,discovers some type of idea or council he wasn't aware of,then eagerly goes out to try it. And 2: The misery-loves-company type.......the guy who just wants to vent and complain about his dating woes,who rejects and finds fault with every type of advice people here try to give. You seem to fall into the latter.

You make it seem as if your situation is hopeless. Given your CURRENT method of interacting with women,I'm inclined to agree.


Let me share a grand revelation that came to me years ago,concerning women and dating.....and I'm talking 20 or something more years ago. This one adjustment I made caused me to get more dates with women than anything I'd ever done up to that point. Ready?


I asked women out. Yes......I actually TALKED TO them.....tossed in a compliment....and asked them about getting together sometime. Let me ask you this....... Let's say you wanted a pay raise at your job. Well,when you go into your bosses' office to speak to him,in order for you to get the raise,WHAT SUBJECT WOULD YOU BRING UP? What would you say to him in order to get the raise?

Would you bring up the subject of........oh......I don't know.......PAY RAISES? Sir,if you want a date....you HAVE TO ask women out. There's no getting around that. This is real life. It ain't a porno where you deliver a pizza to a hot chick,and she goes,"well....I don't really have any money on me,but umm.......maybe I can pay you in another way.....wink,wink....(as she grabs your junk).

You yourself ARE WORSE than the women. You were asked about cold approaching,you said "I don't believe in its effectiveness".
You said you would try online dating....but then went,"I can't let go of THE OPINION that women will lose interest soon as they find out I don't have any experience". So you "don't believe"....and you "can't let go of an opinion". YOUR MIND is your enemy.

Girls don't even get the chance to turn you down cause you "not believing" and your "can't let go of an opinion" won't even allow you to speak to women in the first place to even try.

 

[corrector]

@corrector
Yes you have some structural issues, but they’re not insurmountable.

What do you know about my structural issues? There is some universal themes on here, if you are broke, old, balding, obese, ethnic, then you don't have much of a chance. This is taking posts from @Murk, @EyeBRollin and @Jake_Gyllenhaal69, etc.... These people all have very successful businesses and I believe likely if they were in the situation that I am in, then they would be incel too. If they can say that I'm wrong, then I'm really all ears. My mother's intestines stick out sometimes and smells the whole place up. When I saw that the first time then I had an uncontrollable puke session. Trust me, you don't want a woman in this environment.

 

[SW15]

How often do you cold approach?

Never have, don’t believe in its effectiveness.

Swipe apps, social media DMs, and approaching strangers are all difficult paths for a variety of reasons.

Approaching strangers is a low percentage effort and not easy on the ego. If you get rejected a fair amount in stranger approaching, which you will if you do enough quantity of approaches, it's going to bruise. Most in-person rejections are soft if you're at least Normie range in looks. They take the form of conversations lasting 60 seconds or less that fizzle out without you ever asking her out. If a man wants to avoid this, he could go Mode One and open with the ask out on a date. I think the better way to get dates on stranger approaches is to have some sort of somewhat extended conversation first to see a date is realistic. Experiencing multiple conversations fizzling out quickly is going to affect the psyche, and that's not necessarily a sign of a man with bad social skills. Approaching strangers is low percentage, similar to how cold calling is a low percentage play in business development, both in the B2B and B2C spaces.

The rejections in swipe app game and social media DM game are not real time and not done to your face. Those rejections are also tough. It's bad to see a right swipe percentage of less than 1%. The video below explains a typical experience for men using swipe apps. The sort of experience is psychologically negative over an extended period of time.

If a man already has a pre-built social circle, that's going to be the easiest way to get a girlfriend in the short to medium term. A social circle introduction is a higher percentage play than a swipe app interaction or approaching a stranger (either in a bar or non-bar setting). It's a more difficult path and it's not a path I recommend highly. Social circle is better in the shorter to medium term. You can get a solid, medium term (1-4 years) girlfriend via social circles more easily than through approaches or swiping more easily.

The problem is building a social circle from scratch. After one's mid-20s, this becomes more difficult. It's a time consuming activity and not easy to do with an urgent sexual need. Men with social circles tend to be men who live in the same area as they spent their K-12 formative years. Part of that time is before puberty and before urgent sexual need.

As said before, social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year relationship (and counting) relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

The problem with social circles becomes sustainability over a longer period of time (5+ years). Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). This is because most social circles are ideologically blue pill in their approach to romantic relationships. After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for a serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Over time you’ve hinted at several things and yes they are structural.

My post to you was one of encouragement and a message of hope.That you have decided to respond as you have indicates that you’ve misunderstood what was meant which could point at more complex pathology and an inability to gauge social situations properly.

That or you just want to wallow in your misfortunes.

You don’t need to bring a date back to your place, if you stopped and thought about this for a moment you’d get it.

Movement forward for you based on my understanding of your situation would mean even being able to maintain a friendly interactive conversation with women that you encounter in life - I’d bet you struggle with that.

Baby steps, that you’re thinking about where you’re going to bang her is not something you need to worry about right now.

In any case I was trying to throw you a lifeline and give you an encouraging pat on the back.

You seem very invested in justifying your situation, instead of working on forward movement. Inaction and self pity are your biggest enemies right now.

I truly wish you all the best brother. I will no longer address you directly.

What do you know about my structural issues? There is some universal themes on here, if you are broke, old, balding, obese, ethnic, then you don't have much of a chance. This is taking posts from @Murk, @EyeBRollin and @Jake_Gyllenhaal69, etc.... These people all have very successful businesses and I believe likely if they were in the situation that I am in, then they would be incel too. If they can say that I'm wrong, then I'm really all ears. My mother's intestines stick out sometimes and smells the whole place up. When I saw that the first time then I had an uncontrollable puke session. Trust me, you don't want a woman in this environment.

 

[corrector]

My post to you was one of encouragement and a message of hope.

I don't think so. Don't patronize me.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Because he's not "falling forward" with non-pros?

Non pros? Thats a good one. I call them "The Informal Market"

 

[DonJuanjr]

These people all have very successful businesses and I believe likely if they were in the situation that I am in, then they would be incel too.

C'mon corrector.... You're 40% body fat, and will not entertain having sex with a woman who's 35% due to feelng like you're dumpster diving... When you're 40%, you can drop fat easily, and quickly.... Get down to 30% and looks match a fatty.

 

[corrector]

C'mon corrector.... You're 40% body fat, and will not entertain having sex with a woman who's 35% due to feelng like you're dumpster diving... When you're 40%, you can drop fat easily, and quickly.... Get down to 30% and looks match a fatty.

For the record, I'm not above subbing fatties on OF, at least in the past.

 

[Gamisch]

Because he's not "falling forward" with non-pros?

I said that because a lotta men will think it will make them feel better but it might be more detrimental than they'd think.

Similar to taking drugs to feel better. The aftermath is where the real pain is at. Thing is , a woman always =a woman. Whether it's the princes or the hooker around the corner. A desperate man is unattractive, period. Dont get me started about the cost. It's an expensive hobby.

This is all.my personal take on it. I can understand visiting hookers might sound appealing to a lotta men. But when a hooker is your only option, it's time to start grinding harder and pull some women from " the informal market".

 

[Epicwinguy]

I said that because a lotta men will think it will make them feel better but it might be more detrimental than they'd think.

Similar to taking drugs to feel better. The aftermath is where the real pain is at. Thing is , a woman always =a woman. Whether it's the princes or the hooker around the corner. A desperate man is unattractive, period. Dont get me started about the cost. It's an expensive hobby.

This is all.my personal take on it. I can understand visiting hookers might sound appealing to a lotta men. But when a hooker is your only option, it's time to start grinding harder and pull some women from " the informal market".

Thing is I don't know what to grind at. There are plenty of uglier men than me with crappier jobs who get women. So I either wait however many years it takes for me to have a good career or I need to be like those men.

 

[Whydomyeyeshurt]

Never give up. Period. Your rate of growth is your own. If you compare it to others on some kind of graph you're just dooming yourself.

 

[Stanley]

I don't think so. Don't patronize me.

It didn't come across to me as patronization at all.
It sounds like words of encouragement to improve and leave victimhood behind and take on accountability alongside a willingness to change for the better. We suffer more in imagination than in reality and you do have the capacity to make changes in your life. There are things we cannot control, but there are numerous facets of life you have full dominion over.

Your mindset is your biggest enemy. Don't self deprecate and talk yourself out of confronting growth. Don't blame external factors in excess. Accept where you are at, then make the necessary changes to move you towards your goals. Many would rather commiserate and stew in their bitterness then undertake the mantle of improvement. Yeah, you can't suddenly shape your genetics and become some 'chad', but there is so much more than just looks. And I already know someone is gonna come chime in with their swipe app statistics to rationalize not even trying, but swipe apps are not the end all be all.

Absolutely not trying to bring you down in anyway man.