Under What Circumstances Should a Guy Give Up Entirely?

[SW15]

More is certainly better. But I do think that 5.0 is the final “make or break” point. It’s the threshold of low tier normie (LTN).

Wheat Waffles also thinks a rating of 5.0 is the final make or break point. See video below.

Wheat Waffles breaks down differences in sub 5 treatment, Normie, and Chad treatment. I would say that Wheat Waffles would call a guy a Chad if he rates 8.0+.

 

[Mike32ct]

Wheat Waffles also thinks a rating of 5.0 is the final make or break point. See video below.

Wheat Waffles breaks down differences in sub 5 treatment, Normie, and Chad treatment. I would say that Wheat Waffles would call a guy a Chad if he rates 8.0+.

Will take a look at these. But I do generally agree with WW.

5 will at least get you into friend category (going by the second thumbnail) where you can interact with people.

 

[corrector]

Will take a look at these. But I do generally agree with WW.

5 will at least get you into friend category (going by the second thumbnail) where you can interact with people.

Most of the problems are still with sub8s and that overlaps with sub5s. That includes the possibility of getting in trouble at work if you make a pass or even innoscent remark or compliment, a woman calling the police because you cold approach her, having a generally miserable time cold approaching. The majority of negative threads are from sub8s as sub8s are feeling invisible to women. At the end of the day, do you really see allot of male and female friends in 2023 hookup culture? You dont see any threads complaining about being friendzoned as it is very rare in 2023. Women dont need to string guys around for emotional support if they get tonnes of online validation.

 

[Mike32ct]

Most of the problems are still with sub8s and that overlaps with sub5s.

Agree.

That includes the possibility of getting in trouble at work if you make a pass or even innoscent remark or compliment, a woman calling the police because you cold approach her, having a generally miserable time cold approaching.

You have to be very careful at work. But I do think that it's worth having one at least female friend/ally at work. She is more likely to cut you some slack if you accidentally say the wrong thing than if she's not your friend.

I didn't mean that male 5s should cold approach. They should try to get to least 6 if that is possible. Getting to 5 is the bare minimum just to function in a social circle or work circle.

The majority of negative threads are from sub8s as sub8s are feeling invisible to women. At the end of the day, do you really see allot of male and female friends in 2023 hookup culture? You dont see any threads complaining about being friendzoned as it is very rare in 2023. Women dont need to string guys around for emotional support if they get tonnes of online validation.

You are probably right about the young crowd, but I'm not in their circle.

Notwithstanding, the friendzone (FZ) redddit* is still very active.

Also, YT videos on FZ and how to get out are still being made by different gurus and get a lot of views.**

I would self-report as a low 5 right now because I can interact with some women in a friendly way (only) in social or work circles. I talked to a "6" at a work conference for almost an hour last week. I didn't sense any attraction per se, but she kept talking and didn't eject for quite a while.

*Intentional misspell.

**We know there is no escape from FZ, but gurus still get views on FZ videos.

 

[SW15]

5 will at least get you into friend category (going by the second thumbnail) where you can interact with people.

How important are friends? We've talked about the limitations of social circle game over an extended period of time.

There's a point to be made that male friends can offer some quality of life benefits not related to sex/romantic relationships.

A bachelor (either unattached or marginally attached) will see less of his male friends after age 30 due to his social circle getting married and having kids. The bachelor must find other men in similar places in life, which can be challenging after age 30.

 

[corrector]

How important are friends? We've talked about the limitations of social circle game over an extended period of time.

There's a point to be made that male friends can offer some quality of life benefits not related to sex/romantic relationships.

A bachelor (either unattached or marginally attached) will see less of his male friends after age 30 due to his social circle getting married and having kids. The bachelor must find other men in similar places in life, which can be challenging after age 30.

They can be your best man or groomsmen for an eventual wedding. Imagine how lopsided it would be if the bride has all the social connections and all you know is her.

 

[Mike32ct]

How important are friends? We've talked about the limitations of social circle game over an extended period of time.

There's a point to be made that male friends can offer some quality of life benefits not related to sex/romantic relationships.

A bachelor (either unattached or marginally attached) will see less of his male friends after age 30 due to his social circle getting married and having kids. The bachelor must find other men in similar places in life, which can be challenging after age 30.

Good question. I not even saying that one MUST have a social circle or friends. I just fear that a sub-5 guy could be more or less ostracized and treated like a creeper even though he's a decent, harmless dude. And his social skills could further atrophy and lead to more awkwardness.

All that aside, I think having ONE good guy friend is important, though not absolutely essential. Just somebody you can talk to fairly openly. Blue collar workers can talk fairly openly to other guys on the job, but white collar guys can't. So, it's important to have an outside friend that you can be yourself around and blow off steam on the phone or over a beer.

Female friends...that's another thread lol.

 

[SW15]

Good question. I not even saying that one MUST have a social circle or friends. I just fear that a sub-5 guy could be more or less ostracized and treated like a creeper even though he's a decent, harmless dude. And his social skills could further atrophy and lead to more awkwardness.

All that aside, I think having ONE good guy friend is important, though not absolutely essential. Just somebody you can talk to fairly openly. Blue collar workers can talk fairly openly to other guys on the job, but white collar guys can't. So, it's important to have an outside friend that you can finally be yourself around and blow off steam on the phone or over a beer.

I like your point a lot about blue collar men vs. white collar men.

White collar men need more blue collar men as friends.

I would say that it is more difficult for white collar men to find friends because a lot of white collar workplaces are filled with spineless beta males. The white collar work environment is lousy and not conducive to true masculine energy anymore. It's a shame because in the "Mad Men" era, white collar work could have been considered masculine. It was a different masculinity than blue collar work but it was acceptable in the white collar space for men to be men. The white collar worker male needs to find men who value their masculine energy in places outside of work.

I like having male friends. One of my male friends went from being a strong seducer to a classic beta male whose wife wears the pants. That's a disappointment. However, it doesn't mean we can't drinks beer or liquor together at times. I have some other beta male friends who are okay people. I have some men I know that I'd consider more Alpha/Sigma too.

When I think about my friends, I have not had good experiences with them as wings. It's possible for someone to be a decent friend but not a good wing. Since I've never had a good wing, that's part of why I prefer non-bar approaching to bar approaching. While it's possible to roll solo to nightlife venues, non-bar approaching is better suited for someone who wants to do approaches solo.

 

[Mike32ct]

I like your point a lot about blue collar men vs. white collar men.

White collar men need more blue collar men as friends.

I would say that it is more difficult for white collar men to find friends because a lot of white collar workplaces are filled with spineless beta males. The white collar work environment is lousy and not conducive to true masculine energy anymore. It's a shame because in the "Mad Men" era, white collar work could have been considered masculine. It was a different masculinity than blue collar work but it was acceptable in the white collar space for men to be men. The white collar worker male needs to find men who value their masculine energy in places outside of work.

I like having male friends. One of my male friends went from being a strong seducer to a classic beta male whose wife wears the pants. That's a disappointment. However, it doesn't mean we can't drinks beer or liquor together at times. I have some other beta male friends who are okay people. I have some men I know that I'd consider more Alpha/Sigma too.

When I think about my friends, I have not had good experiences with them as wings. It's possible for someone to be a decent friend but not a good wing. Since I've never had a good wing, that's part of why I prefer non-bar approaching to bar approaching. While it's possible to roll solo to nightlife venues, non-bar approaching is better suited for someone who wants to do approaches solo.

My dad and bro are in the trades, so I've known some blue collar guys socially. They are cool MF'ers and fun to talk to. I end up being the "uptight" one initially because I'm used to super strict white collar office policies/politics. It takes me a few minutes to adjust lol.

Agree completely about wings vs friends.

 

[corrector]

Good question. I not even saying that one MUST have a social circle or friends. I just fear that a sub-5 guy could be more or less ostracized and treated like a creeper even though he's a decent, harmless dude. And his social skills could further atrophy and lead to more awkwardness.

But if you have no social skills then you wont care about this or that since you can be mentally plugged into other things. Why be in a place mentally where you would feel bad?

All that aside, I think having ONE good guy friend is important, though not absolutely essential. Just somebody you can talk to fairly openly. Blue collar workers can talk fairly openly to other guys on the job, but white collar guys can't. So, it's important to have an outside friend that you can be yourself around and blow off steam on the phone or over a

You can also make a viral video. There are lots of parasocial options that this is not necessary. You have reddits, youtube vids, and other more controverial stiff like bitchut, etc...

 

[Mike32ct]

But if you have no social skills then you wont care about this or that since you can be mentally plugged into other things. Why be in a place mentally where you would feel bad?

Understood. You don't have to. It's a personal choice. I'm introverted af, but I still like talking to people sometimes as long as it's one on one.

You can also make a viral video. There are lots of parasocial options that this is not necessary. You have reddits, youtube vids, and other more controverial stiff like bitchut, etc...

Fair enough. It's exactly what we are doing here. It's a place to "talk" fairly openly.

 

[corrector]

Wheat Waffles also thinks a rating of 5.0 is the final make or break point. See video below.

Wheat Waffles breaks down differences in sub 5 treatment, Normie, and Chad treatment. I would say that Wheat Waffles would call a guy a Chad if he rates 8.0+.

Wheat Waffles likely rates a chad as over 9 and a chadlite over 8. Normies range 5-7. Sub8s struggle on apps and pretty much everywhere.

 

[SW15]

Wheat Waffles likely rates a chad as over 9 and a chadlite over 8. Normies range 5-7. Sub8s struggle on apps and pretty much everywhere.

Women only swipe right on 4.5% of men. The top 20% of men are acceptable.

I'd call a top tier guy an 8.5+. The 7.5-8.4 range could be consider "Chad Lite" and Normie would be 5-7.4. I've had my photos rated online and gotten in the upper 6's/low 7's range. I'd be an upper level normie.

 

[Epicwinguy]

Just dont expect women like this will be 100 % receptive to you if you are a smelling fat old fart. You gotta work on yourself regardless. And yes, she is attractive but once you've paid she doesn't have to be nice or whatever anymore. I am just saying don't expect prostitutes to "bring back some type of faith in women " because regardless how they look, inside they're BROKEN people.

Why do you wanna fall back on prostitutes? Is there a specific reason?

Woah woah woah! Where did I say anything about having faith in women? Not an interest of mine. And do you really need to ask why a guy would sleep with prostitutes?

 

[MatureDJ]

It's a thin line between love and hate. First thing that comes to my mind is you should go back to actually loving women for what they are. This is different for each man. Women can pick up on a misogynist.

About prostitution. Never forget, any interaction with a woman needs some form of connection and seduction . The more she is into you, the better this will make YOUR experience . Also remember that these women are broken. They won't give you the "love " you might be looking for. You sound like the type of guy that would have to become a regular visitor to one or two specific prostitutes to mimic real attraction. But believe me , to find these you'll also have to weed out the bad ones. And that will take a lot of money and time.


if you are willing to take the plane to Europe you might find women like her and feck them for 50 bucks.. View attachment 9659 View attachment 9658
Just dont expect women like this will be 100 % receptive to you if you are a smelling fat old fart. You gotta work on yourself regardless. And yes, she is attractive but once you've paid she doesn't have to be nice or whatever anymore. I am just saying don't expect prostitutes to "bring back some type of faith in women " because regardless how they look, inside they're BROKEN people.

Why do you wanna fall back on prostitutes? Is there a specific reason?

I'm going to add this to my escort photo fap collection. There's something about a woman with such ample breasts that they overflow the shirt that gets me going.

 

[MatureDJ]

Why do you wanna fall back on prostitutes? Is there a specific reason?

Because he's not "falling forward" with non-pros?

 

[needimprovement250]

I’m turning 30 this summer and never had a gf and only 1 date 8 years ago. I’m almost at that point now, just feels hopeless.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I’m turning 30 this summer and never had a gf and only 1 date 8 years ago. I’m almost at that point now, just feels hopeless.

How often do you cold approach?

 

[needimprovement250]

How often do you cold approach?

Never have, don’t believe in its effectiveness. No women want to be a 30 year old guy’s first gf anyway, so it is what it is I guess.

 

[Travel memoir21]

Never have, don’t believe in its effectiveness. No women want to be a 30 year old guy’s first gf anyway, so it is what it is I guess.

Your deeply limiting yourself by never trying.