Rational Male Relevancy

[Mase]

Just recently reread the popular Rational Male book by Rollo Tomassi and realised it was published in 2013! Just wondering what you guys think about the relevancy of it now in 2023 and how long it will stay relevant for ?

 

[Stanley]

It is more relevant now then it was back in 2013. Rollo has made comment on this before, but If I recall correctly he has a 10th anniversary edition coming out this year.

 

[startstrongtoday22]

The concepts apply more than they did at that time. Due to the advent social media and dating apps, it’s even more important to be red pill aware

 

[Mase]

The concepts apply more than they did at that time. Due to the advent social media and dating apps, it’s even more important to be red pill aware

I was thinking the exact same thing about also how the female narrative how feminism and the woke culture is becoming more and more prevalent.

 

[RazorRambo24]

ppl will hate me for saying this but those are for dudes who don't naturally develop skills at getting women.. Its almost cringe to me that people have to read books about women.. but ofc, not everone has had the same circumstances as some of us to meet and interact with lots of diff women since a young age

game is not to be told nor sold.. everyone has to learn the hard way.. hate to break it to ya. the dudes who write the books you read are not even pulling as much as some of us on at our worst moments and certainly not spinnin plates like we are

 

[Stanley]

ppl will hate me for saying this but those are for dudes who are not naturally good at getting women.. Its almost cringe to me that people have to read books about women.. but ofc, not everone has had the same circumstances as some of us to meet and interact with lots of diff women since a young age

It pertains to women at times, but the Rational Male is so much more then a book on getting chicks. In fact the book has very little to do with getting chicks period aside from Plate Theory, but even then that isn't about getting girls, it's about understanding men's possible sexual strategies.

The book focuses on shedding light on societal conditioning and unplugging you from mental schema that have been forced upon you, primarily those of a gynocentric or feminine imperative. Thus the term Red Pill from the matrix. It is worth reading regardless of your success with women in my opinion, but you likely already have a lot of the concepts ingrained in you so your mileage may very. It is a book that is challenging to read due to the content and message, but also Rollo's style of writing is very empirical and 'rational'. I attempted to read it and then gave up saying "I don't need this" or "this is bull" and rejected it. I had no problems attracting women, but eventually I came back and read it in full and took some things away from it that really changed my perspective. This seems to be a very common experience with guys "taking the red pill".

my 2 cents

 

[BadBoy89]

Its almost cringe to me that people have to read books about women.

What should they do?

 

[RazorRambo24]

It pertains to women at times, but the Rational Male is so much more then a book on getting chicks. In fact the book has very little to do with getting chicks period aside from Plate Theory, but even then that isn't about getting girls, it's about understanding men's possible sexual strategies.

The book focuses on shedding light on societal conditioning and unplugging you from mental schema that have been forced upon you, primarily those of a gynocentric or feminine imperative. Thus the term Red Pill from the matrix. It is worth reading regardless of your success with women in my opinion, but you likely already have a lot of the concepts ingrained in you so your mileage may very. It is a book that is challenging to read due to the content and message, but also Rollo's style of writing is very empirical and 'rational'. I attempted to read it and then gave up saying "I don't need this" or "this is bull" and rejected it. I had no problems attracting women, but eventually I came back and read it in full and took some things away from it that really changed my perspective. This seems to be a very common experience with guys "taking the red pill".

my 2 cents

Hey, thats great to know.. Thanks for sharing that.. I often forget thats the case as I haven't read the book myself but I do recall people saying it's much more dynamic than what some might praise it for or recommend it for. and man I remember when the red pill thing was a full swing... alot of terrible attitudes came out during that time.. some that are almost borderline dangerous.. But, I understand.. alot of guys come from a place of lack, frustration, anger towards the opposite sex.. I'm glad I was never there.. though I did always hold some values from redpill naturally just being a stand out /confident male who grew up thinking women were less than men naturally and jsut not taking **** from anyone , and being a badass by nature/environment. but ultimately I aligned more with Blue Pill than anything else..

and its funny becuase you look at the red pillers in your life and the blue pillers and the proof is in the pudding.. my blue pill friends all getting laid, no problems with women, also have women as friends, able to keep plates, redpill more or less always blaming women for their lack of success, not keeping plates in their life or girlfriends, always bitter or resentful about situations with women...

ofc i cant say i fully understand the whole red pill/blue pill thing because i never really took a deep dive into it..to me its just internet culture.. and not as important to me.. because i feel things are much more dynamic than just 2 polarized sides

What should they do?

I would imagine if you're trying to become good at connecting with women that 1) you'd become good at socializing in general, going out, involving yourself in places where u can meet women and 2) talking to the and interacting with women, 3) connecting with other men and women who can give u insight and advice either by seeing and learning from their experiences or simply asking questions

For me i just grew up in an environment and influence that naturally grativated me toward women.. My praents always watched romantic flicks growing up so id watch with them and think that a big part of life was about women.. and i used to think about girls as early as age 4.. not even joking. In my neighborhood/ all the older kids were all about girls and talked to us about picking up girls.. I grew up in an environment where cat calling and picking up girls in the street was as common as eating pizza.. But, regardless of my upbringing, i think most dudes are naturally inclined to grow up and talk to women..

we learn more of our games from movies and tv shows naturally and without trying to.. i think.. and from just interacting with women than ever thinking about picking up a book..

its like basketball.. do u pick up a book to learn about basketball or do you simply just play and learn and watch others at the park play, etc.. when u get good at it, at that point u never think about picking up a book, because u know how far u got just by trying

 

[Divorced w 3]

Hey, thats great to know.. Thanks for sharing that.. I often forget thats the case as I haven't read the book myself but I do recall people saying it's much more dynamic than what some might praise it for or recommend it for. and man I remember when the red pill thing was a full swing... alot of terrible attitudes came out during that time.. some that are almost borderline dangerous.. But, I understand.. alot of guys come from a place of lack, frustration, anger towards the opposite sex.. I'm glad I was never there.. though I did always hold some values from redpill naturally just being a stand out /confident male who grew up thinking women were less than men naturally and jsut not taking **** from anyone , and being a badass by nature/environment. but ultimately I aligned more with Blue Pill than anything else..

and its funny becuase you look at the red pillers in your life and the blue pillers and the proof is in the pudding.. my blue pill friends all getting laid, no problems with women, also have women as friends, able to keep plates, redpill more or less always blaming women for their lack of success, not keeping plates in their life or girlfriends, always bitter or resentful about situations with women...

ofc i cant say i fully understand the whole red pill/blue pill thing because i never really took a deep dive into it..to me its just internet culture.. and not as important to me.. because i feel things are much more dynamic than just 2 polarized sides



I would imagine if you're trying to become good at connecting with women that 1) you'd become good at socializing in general, going out, involving yourself in places where u can meet women and 2) talking to the and interacting with women, 3) connecting with other men and women who can give u insight and advice either by seeing and learning from their experiences or simply asking questions

For me i just grew up in an environment and influence that naturally grativated me toward women.. My praents always watched romantic flicks growing up so id watch with them and think that a big part of life was about women.. and i used to think about girls as early as age 4.. not even joking. In my neighborhood/ all the older kids were all about girls and talked to us about picking up girls.. I grew up in an environment where cat calling and picking up girls in the street was as common as eating pizza.. But, regardless of my upbringing, i think most dudes are naturally inclined to grow up and talk to women..

we learn more of our games from movies and tv shows naturally and without trying to.. i think.. and from just interacting with women than ever thinking about picking up a book..

its like basketball.. do u pick up a book to learn about basketball or do you simply just play and learn and watch others at the park play, etc.. when u get good at it, at that point u never think about picking up a book, because u know how far u got just by trying

Almost had me until the basketball analogy. If you play pickup basketball and you suck, and continue to go play anyway, someone at the park is going to show you how to use your outside hand for a layup or ways to position yourself on defense. That guy in this analogy is Manosphere writers and informed community members here.

 

[CyrusTheGreat]

ppl will hate me for saying this but those are for dudes who don't naturally develop skills at getting women.. Its almost cringe to me that people have to read books about women.. but ofc, not everone has had the same circumstances as some of us to meet and interact with lots of diff women since a young age

game is not to be told nor sold.. everyone has to learn the hard way.. hate to break it to ya. the dudes who write the books you read are not even pulling as much as some of us on at our worst moments and certainly not spinnin plates like we are

Most men in this forum aren't here because they're naturals and are getting too much p*ssy. Rather the other way around. Also the whole purpose of this forum is for men to share and learn from each others experiences.

Also the Rational Male book isn't just for success with women. It's a book that gives the readers a perspective about the intersexual dynamics of the society.

 

[RazorRambo24]

Almost had me until the basketball analogy. If you play pickup basketball and you suck, and continue to go play anyway, someone at the park is going to show you how to use your outside hand for a layup or ways to position yourself on defense. That guy in this analogy is Manosphere writers and informed community members here.

But thats the thing, you never meet someone who has played alot of basketball and practiced and sucks.. You only get better as you try. To think that you can suck, and then read a book and become better, instead of continue to learn and try and ask others who play basketball for tips, is quite silly.

Most men in this forum aren't here because they're naturals and are getting too much p*ssy. Rather the other way around. Also the whole purpose of this forum is for men to share and learn from each others experiences.

Also the Rational Male book isn't just for success with women. It's a book that gives the readers a perspective about the intersexual dynamics of the society.

Sadly i came to Sosuave hoping things would be diffeerent.. you're absolutely right though. I think im on the wrong forum. Ofc, idk if theres any other places that exist where men who ARE doing well with women hang out.. but its aite..

 

[Divorced w 3]

Most men in this forum aren't here because they're naturals and are getting too much p*ssy. Rather the other way around. Also the whole purpose of this forum is for men to share and learn from each others experiences.

Also the Rational Male book isn't just for success with women. It's a book that gives the readers a perspective about the intersexual dynamics of the society.

I needed a refresher, I was in a bad situation of my own making for over a decade. This place helped breathe life back into me and my entire frame has gotten exponentially better in short order. There’s no level of therapy available that can take the place of a man being given the tools to truly be confident in his own skin

 

[Divorced w 3]

But thats the thing, you never meet someone who has played alot of basketball and practiced and sucks.. You only get better as you try. To think that you can suck, and then read a book, instead of continue to learn and try and ask others who play basketball for tips, is quite silly.

I don’t know where you’re playing ball my friend but there’s not a court in the New York area that doesn’t have regulars that will take you aside and show you. You get good because someone shortens the curve and fixed your mechanics. That’s anything in life. You learn your job because someone showed you. You get good anywhere because methods have been shortcut for you in writing, in person or both. No man is an island. You didn’t develop your skills strictly on your own, someone was dribbling in front of you one day and you tried to copy it. Otherwise you’re essentially saying you invented the sport.

 

[RazorRambo24]

I don’t know where you’re playing ball my friend but there’s not a court in the New York area that doesn’t have regulars that will take you aside and show you. You get good because someone shortens the curve and fixed your mechanics. That’s anything in life. You learn your job because someone showed you. You get good anywhere because methods have been shortcut for you in writing, in person or both. No man is an island. You didn’t develop your skills strictly on your own, someone was dribbling in front of you one day and you tried to copy it. Otherwise you’re essentially saying you invented the sport.

If you're really trying to argue that picking up a book is better than learning by actually trying and practicing, then you and I are not on the same level of thinking ... I'm not knocking reading books in general.. But when it comes to women, your personality and who you are is unique and the books you're reading are written by men who have had their own unique experiences.. Its nowhere the same as basketball or any other mechanic and system driven sport because personalities are a big part of it, looks, and so many other dynamic variables.

I feel like you are trying to defend this because you are one of those guys who had to read books to learn about women.. and if that's the case, im glad it worked for you if it has.. But, for some of us, we simply haven't needed to. I still read books though.. just not necessarily about women. To each their own.

 

[zekko]

To me, a lot of the Red Pill is simply about having self respect.

But, regardless of my upbringing, i think most dudes are naturally inclined to grow up and talk to women..

I agree with that. I think the problem comes for some guys when they start talking to women (maybe they do this clumsily) but find that they don't get the results they are wanting or expecting. That can cause self doubt and confidence problems, and a negative feedback loop.

As for your basketball analogy, I agree you have to get out there on the court. I used to play a lot of tennis, and you have to go out and hit balls. But I also used to read Tennis magazine, and there would be tips and strategies in there that I would try out, and a lot of them were helpful. Not all of them, but many of them.

I don’t know where you’re playing ball my friend but there’s not a court in the New York area that doesn’t have regulars that will take you aside and show you. You get good because someone shortens the curve and fixed your mechanics. That’s anything in life.

I think there's a big difference though between someone working with you and showing you how to do something, and simply reading about it in a book. I've always thought the biggest problem with pickup advice is that it's too one size fits all. Seems like it would be a lot more helpful if someone knowledgeable could observe your interactions and give tailor made advice for your personality and approach. Someone who could see the actual mistakes you're making. I don't think there are a lot of people who would be able to do that skillfully though.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If you're really trying to argue that picking up a book is better than learning by actually trying and practicing, then you and I are not on the same level of thinking ... I'm not knocking reading books in general.. But when it comes to women, your personality and who you are is unique and the books you're reading are written by men who have had their own unique experiences.. Its nowhere the same as basketball or any other mechanic and system driven sport because personalities are a big part of it, looks, and so many other dynamic variables.

I feel like you are trying to defend this because you are one of those guys who had to read books to learn about women.. and if that's the case, im glad it worked for you if it has.. But, for some of us, we simply haven't needed to. I still read books though.. just not necessarily about women. To each their own.

What you’re trying to do is take a broken argument and reframe it and I’m not going to bite. I’m more natural than anything else, I put in my share of the work in the field, and there’s no harm in coming in here once in awhile, developing a community and getting some thoughts on a situation.

 

[RazorRambo24]

What you’re trying to do is take a broken argument and reframe it and I’m not going to bite. I’m more natural than anything else, I put in my share of the work in the field, and there’s no harm in coming in here once in awhile, developing a community and getting some thoughts on a situation.

Broken argument? what.. you lost me, get a grip man .. you are literally defending reading books to get women and claim you're a natural.. doesnt add up to me.. its ironic at best

 

[RazorRambo24]

I agree with that. I think the problem comes for some guys when they start talking to women (maybe they do this clumsily) but find that they don't get the results they are wanting or expecting. That can cause self doubt and confidence problems, and a negative feedback loop.

As for your basketball analogy, I agree you have to get out there on the court. I used to play a lot of tennis, and you have to go out and hit balls. But I also used to read Tennis magazine, and there would be tips and strategies in there that I would try out, and a lot of them were helpful. Not all of them, but many of them.

You make valid points for sure , and I was never knocking reading books to learn about women.. I simply find it cringe because I never had to. My point was more or less that I believe they would be more helpful for those who aren't naturally good with women. ofc, even someone who is probably good with women can probably learn a thing or two by reading those books.. but I don't believe anything is as good as practice / experience which should be pretty obvious.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Broken argument? what.. you lost me, get a grip man .. you are literally defending reading books to get women and claim you're a natural.. doesnt add up to me.. its ironic at best

So what are you doing here my man? Not here for help, not here to help…

I don’t wanna get too mean but….were you proud of what you posted yesterday? That was you with that gnarly Spanish chick right? You said ‘you get what you get at 2am…’

I would never go home with that. Ever. I do a lot better than that under identical conditions. I’m not posting a photo, don’t have to. Much hotter, much younger.

Oh and go tell Phil Jackson and Shaq that they weren’t influential in the life and development of Kobe Bryant. Fvcking clown.

 

[threeforfree]

Look, the subliminally matriarchal society we are in, where the women STILL continue to play victim to keep men "in their place"... is constantly wearing on you and influencing you. It really helps sometimes to read the right kind of literature and expose yourself to the thoughts you should be exposed to, rather than constantly hearing the drumbeat of today's society.

I had a kid that, when younger, was a real handful. It took a lot to turn him around. I did a lot of reading, and even got the CD course for "The Total Transformation" program (Yeah, that was a long time ago). There were a lot of things in there that gave me new perspective, new methods, and a sensible path to straightening out my kid. Every so often I'd find myself drifting back to my old habits and techniques, though I didn't mean to. Revisiting the material helped bring it back front and center in my head, and re-centered me.

To me, these books and such are the same thing. It's great support for us... because we sure as hell ain't gonna get it from anywhere else.