Why the Scarcity Mindset is the worst thing a man can catch

[Dr.Suave]

#2 is the most problematic for a few reasons. You make a good point about the boner test.

Thanks bro, I also thought I made some good points but I dont think @BeExcellent "gets me", even though Im agreeing with most of what she said. You made some great points as well.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Thanks bro, I also thought I made some good points but I dont think @BeExcellent "gets me", even though Im agreeing with most of what she said. You made some great points as well.

I think that @BeExcellent brings a reminder of what Pook that ‘rules’ or ‘guidelines’ are simply models. You absolutely have to have a core understanding and some sort of basis to make decisions, in other words you have to evaluate situations based on something. But not everything is so hard and fast.

For example the advice given with the girl I'm banging like rabbits with now was that I was her backup, the reality was that she wasn’t ready to take an overnight with me (which really, circles back to basic game and I should never have offered) - but I had enough awareness to take my own gut on it as well as just being willing to fail and get experience.

on the other hand, had I stuck to the ‘Manosphere’ and not been a little more open and vulnerable as she recommended, I would have waited too long and she would have been off as an option. She’s old fashioned and I completely understand why for reasons I won’t get into here.

bend, don’t break so to speak. But definitely have a playbook, set of mental models, however you want to put it. You have to be able to compare relatively in the moment, it’s the only way to make good decisions

most of all- have fun!

 

[pipeman84]

the average woman wants nothing to do with the average man.

And the reverse isn't true? Why in the world would a regular Joe want to put up with all the baggage and issues of the average woman just for the chance of some mediocre sex? Is it really worth it when you have all kinds of porn at your fingertips, free?

the women that are on his own level want nothing to do with him.

Like attracts like, water seeks its own level.... this ancient wisdom is true and immutable, just as gravity.
If a guy thinks he's an 8 yet he doesn't find (or isn't able to hold on to) a female 8 then he most probably made some mistakes in the self assessment...in other words, the packaging might be an 8 but the content is only a 4. Depending on how perceptive the woman is, she could spot it within the first date or after a couple of months.

 

[SW15]

And the reverse isn't true? Why in the world would a regular Joe want to put up with all the baggage and issues of the average woman just for the chance of some mediocre sex? Is it really worth it when you have all kinds of porn at your fingertips, free?

The reverse is not true. Men are extremely thirsty. Men are lacking both sex and emotional intimacy. Male loneliness is a problem too. Porn does not solve a lack of emotional intimacy, female companionship, and the ability to bring a woman to social functions that are likely going to be all couples if the social circle is age 30+.

Men will lower their standards for sex and for the ability to have a girlfriend.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Men will lower their standards for sex and for the ability to have a girlfriend.

Yes, men will lower standards to a point. She still has to pass the boner test

 

[Divorced w 3]

I realize your "she" was referring to your girl and not me, however I am glad to see that my words (below quoted from the "need texting advice" thread) had a positive effect around here for a change.



IOW, vulnerable. Open up a bit, stop being so guarded, and "gasp" afraid. It's not gonna kill ya as you've just discovered.

Good luck with your girl, at this point I think she is exactly the type of girl you need.

I used she twice in that paragraph for different people, I was referring the first time to @BeExcellent

 

[Divorced w 3]

The reverse is not true. Men are extremely thirsty. Men are lacking both sex and emotional intimacy. Male loneliness is a problem too. Porn does not solve a lack of emotional intimacy, female companionship, and the ability to bring a woman to social functions that are likely going to be all couples if the social circle is age 30+.

Men will lower their standards for sex and for the ability to have a girlfriend.

Porn is so, so bad for you. Can’t stress it enough.

 

[Gamisch]

I think the Roman story is a good story with a basis in reality.

In that story, Roman's day-to-day activities stink. In terms of his day-to-day life, he's not putting himself around enough women. That's neither a problem with scarcity mentality nor is it a necessarily a problem with being a "nice guy" or beta male.

Roman could be approaching at the grocery store, at the mall, his gym, etc. With daygame, a guy like Roman would need to use multiple forms of it.

You'd also have to consider his social circle. Does he have a local younger sister or local similarly aged female cousins to help him out with introductions? I've known guys with girlfriends who would have been incel/borderline incel without sister introductions. Could he do a weak social circle option and join a co-ed sports league?

A guy like Roman would really need to examine his day-to-day activities and make significant changes. He'd need to run multiple game streams too.

This Roman dude deserves his own thread. I think every man at some point been a Roman. That's when you wake up and decide to do thing differently.

Nevertheless, a Roman type of guy should always be prepared and open to meet women. Chest up, head high. Well dressed and groomed at any time. Be fit. Antennas must be fully operational at all times . Force interactions by going to festivals with a bunch of cool people. Visit other city's and events and be at places where people gather. Play sport in the park with friends. Greet people and do small talk when possible. Ofcourse be active on OLD.

The mythical Chad and Tyrone somehow always manage to be there where all these women are. The Roman type of guy sits at home too much , stuck in his routine and should have a critical look in the mirror and see if he shouldn't say " yes" more often.

 

[pipeman84]

The reverse is not true. Men are extremely thirsty. Men are lacking both sex and emotional intimacy. Male loneliness is a problem too. Porn does not solve a lack of emotional intimacy, female companionship, and the ability to bring a woman to social functions that are likely going to be all couples if the social circle is age 30+.

Women are much thirstier (biologically/evolutionary driven) for emotional intimacy than men. So I don't see how women have the upper hand in the dating space ... a theme I've noticed repeatedly in your messages.

Porn is so, so bad for you. Can’t stress it enough.

Well, it depends on the context...if one is in a relationship, I agree that porn is counterproductive. If one is wasting his time and damaging his mental health on dating apps/cold approach in the street/at the mall, then porn is a solution. The guy unloads in a safe and enjoyable manner in the comfort of his own home and on his own timetable spending a fraction of the time he'd otherwise waste on apps/dating that goes nowhere.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

It has to do with marketplace dynamics truly. In a place that is warmer - think cities in Texas/Arizona/Florida/SoCal there will be more fit women, why? Because it’s warm and you end up wearing skimpier clothing, often these cities also just are fitter and more affluent.

In these areas women tend to adjust their expectations - elsewhere, where a good looking fit woman is an anomaly even 4’s think they’re 9’s. (49’er syndrome)

I’ve seen this as I’ve traveled to the locales listed from my home base for years - where suddenly I go from being London Broil to Filet Mignon for the locals (much higher quality than my home base provides) literally the moment I step off the plane.

Again market economics are at play, things that are plentiful are not as valued.

Ok. Fair. But there ARE women who will take an interest in the guy. Oh wait, he doesn’t like those women?

Beer bellied bald guys or socially awkward incel types are not going to suddenly end up with a Victoria’s Secret model. But that seems to be the expectation around here. That’s the fantasy the adult entertainment industry has successfully sold, and there are many average women who are just as invisible as the average man.

Water seeks its own level. If a man is not pulling what he wants he has 3 options:

1. Take stock objectively and level up himself
2. Take stock objectively and accept the options he does have
3. Leave the game entirely

That’s it really. That is true for any man or woman. Some people have more options. It is what it is.

 

[BeExcellent]

@Dr.Suave and others: Guys. I’m trying to help here. Seriously.

The single biggest issue with men or women? Not being honest enough or self aware enough of what everyone else around you experiences as objective reality.

Example: I have a girlfriend of many years who lives in another state (one mentioned by @Pierce.Manhammer and I live in another of those states). He is right. There are more fit people who value looking good and have healthy lifestyles. She is 5’9” and I would guess weighs 165. She has a big bust, a pretty face, long healthy hair, and she is witty and intelligent. She is also quite traditional and believes women are supposed to be submissive to the man. She has children at home (ages 10 and 14), is a home owner who is financially self reliant. Her husband cheated with an old high school gf, which facilitated their divorce and he is now married to her.

She is a bit heavy set for her frame & wants a very tall handsome man who is as successful as she is. She is being completely unrealistic. The men she wants can pull thinner, fitter, younger, childless women! So guess what? They don’t pick her, and she turns her nose up at men who do pick her (they are more like her-middle aged, not in great shape, carrying some extra pounds, etc.

If she lost 30-40 pounds the landscape would change immensely for her.

If that is the type man she wants? She’s got to become a better version of herself that will appeal to that type man. Simple. Not easy.

It’s the same for invisible men. You want a certain type woman? You’ve got to honestly take stock and observe who takes an interest in you. And you can’t complain about things you are unwilling or unable to change.

I don’t talk much to my gf I noted above. She is bitter and jealous about men (she thinks my guy is hot), and she doesn’t understand that for years I have made lifestyle choices that allow me to appeal to the sort of man I desire. I don’t over eat, I work out, I go out socially and meet people, etc. My gf is unwilling to make those lifestyle changes. So she goes dateless and sexless. Like some of the men around here.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

The other thing that happens to upper tier men in my metro is guys that are 7-9’s in good shape, attractive, smart, successful is that women who are our looks match or even a point lower do not trust us, because they’ve been pumped and dumped so many times by chad/lites.

It just happens, the only way to avoid this is to snag a gal right out of an LTR.

 

[Stanley]

I feel like Roman is a new word to the Sosuave vernacular @sangheilios.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Roman

The everyman who is by all accounts normal, but lacks social interaction with women. He isn't ugly. He isn't poor. He isn't a psychopath. He isn't incompetent. He is normal and is dealing with the typical experiences had by most adult men in the western world. At some point Roman will hopefully remove the wool from his eyes and give himself a kick in the a** to accept the way things are... then adapt and change around them to better serve himself. No one will help Roman but himself. Roman isn't necessarily AFC, Incel, black pill, MGTOW or any variation but he very well could be... All it takes is the desire to change and make a concerted effort to level up and break out of his comfort zone and Roman is no more. Roman exists on the precipice of success and failure in a volatile state teetering between the two. On one side there exists the chump who bemoans how horrible the modern dating world is and gives up in his pursuit of the other sex. The other side accepts the nature of things and embraces reality and faces it head on. He who accepts the trials and tribulations of the modern era with a smile moves to greater things and leaves Romanhood behind.

Roman must recognize and take inventory of himself. What is he good at? What are his skill sets? How does he look? How does he stack up? He must also ask himself with painful honesty, Where do I lack? What don't I have that others do? Am I using my time efficiently? Am I being incongruent with the man I want to become??? And so forth. Inward self reflection is the catalyst for growth and change for better or worse. Perhaps Roman realizes on paper that he isn't so bad? Heck! to some he might even be a catch... but the problem lies in that Roman has no exposure to the opposite sex. He spends his days diligently working his male dominated 9-5 where his social interaction pertains to what Netflix show the guys are watching around the water jug. He then goes about his normal routine and goes to bed only to repeat again the following day. Roman is stuck in the prototypical cycle that many men naturally plug into after academia. He's on board the rat race which only serves to solidify his 'normal-ness'. One day Roman reaches the conclusion that things aren't what they 'should' be and he needs to enact change. (This often comes after trauma or getting his head played with.) It is from that point forward Roman must decide what he wants out of life and what he wants out of women.

Does he want some curvaceous babe who's 'out of his league'? Well then perhaps Roman needs to take inventory and see what he can do to level himself up to get that HB. Learn game? Absolutely! Make more money? Certainly! Money is freedom and with freedom comes options. Put on some muscle and dress to impress? Why wouldn't Roman do that! Such an easy thing like elevating your wardrobe only seeks to serve you and steeling yourself in the gym through iron discipline is a win-win in every facet of a man's life! Roman is surrounded by men all day, yet he wants the ladies. Logistics! First step in getting the ladies is being around them! Breaking down social barriers and being comfortable in one's own skin comes with a concerted effort. If Roman is to overcome his FEELINGS of scarcity he must surround himself in an abundance of women regardless of his relationship with them. He could resort to fishing the OLD pond, but unless he's got the top gear and is a naturally accomplished fisherman he's wasting his time. Roman isn't an angler! He spends his days working in an office! He might catch a couple bluegill, but he wants a trout!

Roman is a muted off white subway tile. You do not notice him, he is not seen. He remains in line with all the other subway tiles firmly held in place by the grout... The grout which holds him in place is society and its expectations of men. Roman decided like many to do what's expected of him and always do the 'right' thing. Roman was sold a lie which led him to where he is now. He "did all the right things", yet he is unhappy and invisible to most people, not only women... Roman is surrounded by numerous other Romans who look just as he does. However, there exist subway tiles with other attributes which make them noticeable. The tile with chips and cracks. The pristine and pearly white tile far out of reach. That one tile with the 7 year old gum stuck to it... There are outliers and there are qualities that set them apart both good and bad.

The man with scorn directed towards women and society feels as though he has been dealt a bad hand is a man easily seen. He wears a proud chip on his shoulder and spends his time whining about how 'bad' things are and personalizes it. This man will place blame on everything and everyone but himself. He 'interprets' statistics and uses them as a tool to illustrate and rationalize the way he feels. A woman of quality and self esteem does not want him. On the other hand we have the man that recognized how things are, accepted them and then adapted to them! This man leveled himself up in every way possible and took the hand he was dealt and owned it. This man views comfort as a cage and is in an ever constant state of self improvement which people find attractive. He is not a whiner.

Roman COULD be any degree of these men.... or he could remain a Roman for the rest of his life. It is up to Roman to think independently, critically and honestly about who he is and who he wants to become. Most men are at some point in their life a Roman and have yet to accept or even acknowledge the burden of performance.

How about a pertinent quote from the greatest Roman from two millennia ago?

“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”
-Marcus Aurelius

 

[BadBoy89]

The single biggest issue with men or women? Not being honest enough or self aware enough of what everyone else around you experiences as objective reality.

That is not the biggest issue.

The biggest issue is the sexual revolution. Hot women sleep with the top Alpha Men when they are the most attractive and most fertile in their 20s, and they brutally reject ALL other men. Then when the women are less attractive and less fertile in their 30s, they want the guys who are in their 30s who they rejected in their 20s.

That is the BIGGEST issue.

If that is the type man she wants? She’s got to become a better version of herself that will appeal to that type man. Simple. Not easy.

It’s the same for invisible men. You want a certain type woman? You’ve got to honestly take stock and observe who takes an interest in you. And you can’t complain about things you are unwilling or unable to change.

The problem is you believe men and women think alike and are attracted to the same things. Women don't have to put in 5% of the work men do. Generally, as long as the woman is not overweight, has long hair, no kids, and pre-menopause, and man will either sleep with her or have a relationship with her. It doesn't work the other around. For an average women to have sex with or be in a relationship with a man, she wants alot alot more, and its her preogorative.

You keep mentioning guys want Victoria Secrets models when they are nothing themselves. They don't. Most average guys just want a nice average girl they can get along with and be intimate with, who won't destroy them financially, or abuse them emotionally.

In 2023, most guys have to be SUPERMAN to get an average girl, while most girls who are average can easily get SUPERMAN guy.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

In 2023, most guys have to be SUPERMAN to get an average girl, while most girls who are average can easily get SUPERMAN guy.

Adding “for sex, not commitment” to the end of your sentence. They figure it out after a few years of getting pumped and dumped aka the epiphany stage.

 

[SW15]

The biggest issue is the sexual revolution. Hot women sleep with the top Alpha Men when they are the most attractive and most fertile in their 20s, and they brutally reject ALL other men. Then when the women are less attractive and less fertile in their 30s, they want the guys who are in their 30s who they rejected in their 20s.

That is the BIGGEST issue.

When I was in my 20s and pursuing some hot women in their 20s, I experienced a bit of this. I am above average in looks. I've had my pics rated around the high 6s/low 7s range. That's good.

A lot of the most attractive women in their 20s age well when they reach their 30s. Most marry and have kids. They aren't actively testing their market value. A lot of the most attractive women from my university got married.

A lot of attractive 20 something women end up getting longer term commitments before they turn 30.

Yes, there are some attractive, never married 30 somethings that are available. These women in their 30s are still fussy,

When you hear an average looking or even slight above average 30 something woman wondering "Where Have All the Good Men Gone?", it's a sign that they are still too fussy. They have options. They are often unwilling to settle for those options. Sometimes a 30 something woman will seek out a 30 something beta male and they can usually get one. Some women do realize that having a beta male is better than holding out for an alpha's commitment.

Women don't have to put in 5% of the work men do. Generally, as long as the woman is not overweight, has long hair, no kids, and pre-menopause, and man will either sleep with her or have a relationship with her. It doesn't work the other around. For an average women to have sex with or be in a relationship with a man, she wants alot alot more, and its her preogorative.

You keep mentioning guys want Victoria Secrets models when they are nothing themselves. They don't. Most average guys just want a nice average girl they can get along with and be intimate with, who won't destroy them financially, or abuse them emotionally.

In 2023, most guys have to be SUPERMAN to get an average girl, while most girls who are average can easily get SUPERMAN guy.

This is mostly true.

Adding “for sex, not commitment” to the end of your sentence. They figure it out after a few years of getting pumped and dumped aka the epiphany stage.

Average women can easily have sex with top tier men. The problem becomes when they become entitled and expect only top tier men despite themselves ranging from a 5-6.5.

A woman who is in the 5-6.5 range either realizes that she'll have to settle a bit or decides to ride the carousel forever. The ones who settle don't have it too badly. Male thirst is an actual epidemic/pandemic so even these women tend to do ok even when settling. The ones who can't get LTRs are the ones who bought into the feminist idea of "Never Settle!". They don't settle and they do tend to get more ignored by top tier men but still chased extensively by their SMV equals even at ages 35-44.

 

[BeExcellent]

That is not the biggest issue.

The biggest issue is the sexual revolution. Hot women sleep with the top Alpha Men when they are the most attractive and most fertile in their 20s, and they brutally reject ALL other men. Then when the women are less attractive and less fertile in their 30s, they want the guys who are in their 30s who they rejected in their 20s.

That is the BIGGEST issue.



The problem is you believe men and women think alike and are attracted to the same things. Women don't have to put in 5% of the work men do. Generally, as long as the woman is not overweight, has long hair, no kids, and pre-menopause, and man will either sleep with her or have a relationship with her. It doesn't work the other around. For an average women to have sex with or be in a relationship with a man, she wants alot alot more, and its her preogorative.

You keep mentioning guys want Victoria Secrets models when they are nothing themselves. They don't. Most average guys just want a nice average girl they can get along with and be intimate with, who won't destroy them financially, or abuse them emotionally.

In 2023, most guys have to be SUPERMAN to get an average girl, while most girls who are average can easily get SUPERMAN guy.

I disagree. Most people, men and women both, expect the opposite sex to accept them as they are, whether it’s gamer nerdy, beer belly, socially inept, overweight, unruly kids, sloppy, messy, poorly dressed and on and on and on. But then they reject people just like them but the opposite sex.

If you look at who you attract you’ll see a reflection of who you are. That is good news or bad news depending on you.

The pump/dump thing is why character is the most important thing to screen for. Women who have character don’t end up pumped & dumped.

Hot women always have options. Period. I never just slept with the Alpha guy. Nope. I never needed to use sex to attract men. I always had options and didn’t get pumped/dumped. So perhaps for that reason I hold a more traditional view. But I also have always been more cautious too, and have become very good at reading intent. Why? Because every man wants sex. Duh. So a wise woman who has standards learns to understand intent and screen out the pump/dump types through a combination of patience and observation. As a hot woman you are prey, quite literally. So you develop heightened awareness of people and situations around you because everyone wants something off you.

So no, it’s not like that for Karens or less attractive women. And it’s generally not like that for men either UNLESS they are famous or very VERY physically attractive or very wealthy or some combination thereof. Both my fiancé and I experience this and we both understand it. He is gorgeous and looks like a rock star. Strangers will come up to him and gush about his hair or clothes and want to know who he is, what band he’s in. He finds this groupie ish behavior off putting. I get hit on all the time and/or I get women who want to latch onto me because of the attention men pay me (like they want scraps or a hand off since I’m taken….) it’s a weird landscape and most people don’t have to navigate it, but it’s day in day out for us. Last night we went two places we haven’t gone for months (and we’ve never frequented really)….staff at both places knew us on sight. I’m actually happy to be older now. I’m much more invisible to the horniest age subset of men. Hallelujah. They are too young anyway.

I like being able more now not to be gawked at going about my day. And I forego makeup at work and during my typical day in large part to downplay my looks. I still get approached but less than if I was done up. I still have very attractive energy, I dunno why.

Some men here need an attitude check. Negative attitudes and beliefs breed the scarcity mindset. Who cares if most women do X, Y, or Z. You are looking for one; or maybe several depending on your sexual strategy. Keep an abundance mindset, which comes off as positive and inviting in your vibe, rather than a scarcity AWALT negative mindset, which comes off distrusting and creepy in your vibe.

Your vibe is everything, and your attitude (scarcity versus abundance) determines much about your results. I can tell you who has abundance versus scarcity mindset in the thread based on content posted. And both sides of the continuum are represented here, and then you have some trying to figure out & logic through where they fall. Those guys fall toward scarcity because they do not believe in abundance for THEM, which is self defeating.

Give that a think.

 

[pipeman84]

The pump/dump thing is why character is the most important thing to screen for. Women who have character don’t end up pumped & dumped.

100%

Negative attitudes and beliefs breed the scarcity mindset. Who cares if most women do X, Y, or Z. You are looking for one; or maybe several depending on your sexual strategy. Keep an abundance mindset, which comes off as positive and inviting in your vibe, rather than a scarcity AWALT negative mindset, which comes off distrusting and creepy in your vibe.

Your vibe is everything, and your attitude (scarcity versus abundance) determines much about your results.

100%

 

[Divorced w 3]

I disagree. Most people, men and women both, expect the opposite sex to accept them as they are, whether it’s gamer nerdy, beer belly, socially inept, overweight, unruly kids, sloppy, messy, poorly dressed and on and on and on. But then they reject people just like them but the opposite sex.

If you look at who you attract you’ll see a reflection of who you are. That is good news or bad news depending on you.

The pump/dump thing is why character is the most important thing to screen for. Women who have character don’t end up pumped & dumped.

Hot women always have options. Period. I never just slept with the Alpha guy. Nope. I never needed to use sex to attract men. I always had options and didn’t get pumped/dumped. So perhaps for that reason I hold a more traditional view. But I also have always been more cautious too, and have become very good at reading intent. Why? Because every man wants sex. Duh. So a wise woman who has standards learns to understand intent and screen out the pump/dump types through a combination of patience and observation. As a hot woman you are prey, quite literally. So you develop heightened awareness of people and situations around you because everyone wants something off you.

So no, it’s not like that for Karens or less attractive women. And it’s generally not like that for men either UNLESS they are famous or very VERY physically attractive or very wealthy or some combination thereof. Both my fiancé and I experience this and we both understand it. He is gorgeous and looks like a rock star. Strangers will come up to him and gush about his hair or clothes and want to know who he is, what band he’s in. He finds this groupie ish behavior off putting. I get hit on all the time and/or I get women who want to latch onto me because of the attention men pay me (like they want scraps or a hand off since I’m taken….) it’s a weird landscape and most people don’t have to navigate it, but it’s day in day out for us. Last night we went two places we haven’t gone for months (and we’ve never frequented really)….staff at both places knew us on sight. I’m actually happy to be older now. I’m much more invisible to the horniest age subset of men. Hallelujah. They are too young anyway.

I like being able more now not to be gawked at going about my day. And I forego makeup at work and during my typical day in large part to downplay my looks. I still get approached but less than if I was done up. I still have very attractive energy, I dunno why.

Some men here need an attitude check. Negative attitudes and beliefs breed the scarcity mindset. Who cares if most women do X, Y, or Z. You are looking for one; or maybe several depending on your sexual strategy. Keep an abundance mindset, which comes off as positive and inviting in your vibe, rather than a scarcity AWALT negative mindset, which comes off distrusting and creepy in your vibe.

Your vibe is everything, and your attitude (scarcity versus abundance) determines much about your results. I can tell you who has abundance versus scarcity mindset in the thread based on content posted. And both sides of the continuum are represented here, and then you have some trying to figure out & logic through where they fall. Those guys fall toward scarcity because they do not believe in abundance for THEM, which is self defeating.

Give that a think.

Well said. You can only achieve if you dare to fail

 

[sangheilios]

That is not the biggest issue.

The biggest issue is the sexual revolution. Hot women sleep with the top Alpha Men when they are the most attractive and most fertile in their 20s, and they brutally reject ALL other men. Then when the women are less attractive and less fertile in their 30s, they want the guys who are in their 30s who they rejected in their 20s.

That is the BIGGEST issue.



The problem is you believe men and women think alike and are attracted to the same things. Women don't have to put in 5% of the work men do. Generally, as long as the woman is not overweight, has long hair, no kids, and pre-menopause, and man will either sleep with her or have a relationship with her. It doesn't work the other around. For an average women to have sex with or be in a relationship with a man, she wants alot alot more, and its her preogorative.

You keep mentioning guys want Victoria Secrets models when they are nothing themselves. They don't. Most average guys just want a nice average girl they can get along with and be intimate with, who won't destroy them financially, or abuse them emotionally.

In 2023, most guys have to be SUPERMAN to get an average girl, while most girls who are average can easily get SUPERMAN guy.

There's definitely a lot of truth to this.

Very few men legitimately will only go for super hot women well beyond their actual level, this does happen but it's fairly rare. Most men would be totally fine going for their looks match or even dating down, sometimes by quite a bit. In fact, there are many men who have virtually no standards at all. Very unattractive women will have options, if a woman is chronically single or struggles to land men for a relationship there is something wrong with HER. Most guys are willing to put up with a lot if there is a chance at a relationship, this will vary depending upon the overall desperation of the man and/or the degree of attraction he has towards the woman in question.

The dating market is also substantially different now than it was for men of generations past. Many baby boomer men that ended up getting married and having children would quite literally be incels in today's world. The expectations that men need to live up to are far loftier now than what they went through. Back then, if you were a normal guy that had a job you could land a woman that was roughly your looks match. There are tons of men in this "average and normal" category that struggle in the dating world. Yes, some of this could be due to poor "game" or life circumstances but it's also heavily due to the standards women have and the overall dating market.

I use myself as an example. I've said this a million times, but I'm 6'4" and 235-240 and one of the fittest guys at any gym I'll go to naturally. I'm easily in the top 5% of men, for my actual age it's even more unusual. Anyway, I've had women tell me I have a "dad bod" or criticize my appearance. I've been rejected by average women many times and had no success on dating apps or sites. The vast majority of men are not 6'+ or in really good shape, so what does this say about the overall dating market as a whole and how women often view men? Are all women like this, absolutely not, but enough of them are where it's both directly and indirectly an issue. Lets' say 25% of women have this mindset, this renders even more men incapable of finding a match and the normal women that are available are either locked up or become entitled due to the sheer amount of desperation from men that have gone months or years with no success.

We can debate this all day long, but this is the reality of the modern dating market. I really think the only thing to do is accept it for what it is and learn how to navigate it to the best of your ability. I believe that the market is hyper competitive and that you need to have a lot going for you to have success, or at the very least pretend that you do lol. This could involve being on point with fitness, finances, etc. but there is only so much you can realistcally achieve here. I also beleive that it may be better for men to simply check out all together or just put very little thought into the dating market and just living life. I actually see this latter option becoming more and more the norm.