In your honest opinion..... is it really worth it ?

[Bingo-Player]

over the last 10 years ive met a lot of women i can categorically say only a handfull have added any kind of value to my life

Lets look at the benefits of having a woman first

1) companionship - this for me is probably the only reason i still bother even entertaining them it is nice to have someone to come home too

2) sex - Obviously for a lot of men having regular sex is essential

3) economy - in theory it is usually cheaper to live when you have a stable partner

4) Children - depends where you stand on this but generally yea if you want your own family you gotta have a woman involved

5) status - SOME people view being in a relationship as a status symbol


That is all i can think of
---------------------------

Now the negatives

1) Quality - in 2023 most women will have been tainted by social media in some shape or form i have noticed it tends to bring the worst traits out in them frankly i find this very unattractive

2) The rigmarole of the talking / dating stage - as a man i am quite happy to go out on a date with a new woman i like at a moments notice decide wether we like each other if we do move forward if not we leave it there ...... women seem to enjoy the back and forthing and all the nonsense that comes with it

We largely refer to this as "game" in the manosphere because that is literally the only way to describe it

I am not going to sugar coat it i find this ^^^^ perhaps the biggest of waste of my time on planet earth it frequently leads to absolutely nothing and takes a hell of a lot of mental energy to endure

3) Cheating - who cheats more women or men !?! i suspect the answer is equal

problem is when you invest a lot of time and energy in someone the last thing you want to do is find out they have been seeking attention elsewhere yet it happens every single day , the abuse of trust is a real breaker of men


4) Hypergamy - As a man you are almost forced to date below your value otherwise due to their nature women will usually want to "trade up" this almost means a man constantly needs to be levelling up to keep his woman interested ( not always the case but very common ) this can be very tiring

5) Drama - Women do usually love drama and can and will bring it into your life

6) drain on financial resources - some women can clean you out if your not careful

7) divorce - looking at the statistics this is a lot more common than we would like to believe but again the fallout from a failed marriage can be absolutely catastrophic


------------------------
Conclusion:


Appreciate i may have missed some dynamics out but for me at 30 i am starting to see very little benefit in actively pursuing women in 2023 , if one i like drops into my lap i will follow it up until i feel it's become a chore but overall i am going to focus on enjoying being alone and the peace that comes with it

Interested to hear other members perspectives......

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Once I figured out I had the ability to spin plates/have multiple GFs, I completely stopped doing it. It seems cool when you are struggling to get one girl and haven’t done it before. However, the wasted time, energy, and money I spent soon caught up and I would much rather use it for something else. Plus, there’s more things/developed connections you get when you spend time with one person vs juggling multiple women around.

 

[DreamAgain]

In an ideal world, your girlfriend or wife would enhance your life quite a bit. You would have an interesting companion to talk to, a person to love, someone to share life's nice experiences with, conversely someone to go through hardships with as well. Someone to raise a family with, to bring children into the world and have them excel and perhaps do the things you were never able to do.

Sadly as you pointed out, in 2023 the chances of this are so slim, in my opinion one must come to peace with the fact it is just an idealist illusion, and be comfortable with this never occurring in their lives. If you date down, like you suggest, perhaps this is the best option to be treated with respect and to have the most balanced relationship, however, the nagging thought of not being attracted to your girlfriend or wife will gnaw at you, it will eventually break the deal no matter how good everything else is.

 

[jaymbrs]

OP, you may just need to take a break. I did this year and now I'm literally refreshed. I'm back on the scene and doing well because I developed a patience for the BS that comes with women. It's like a cycle.

 

[Gamisch]

over the last 10 years ive met a lot of women i can categorically say only a handfull have added any kind of value to my life

Lets look at the benefits of having a woman first

1) companionship - this for me is probably the only reason i still bother even entertaining them it is nice to have someone to come home too

2) sex - Obviously for a lot of men having regular sex is essential

3) economy - in theory it is usually cheaper to live when you have a stable partner

4) Children - depends where you stand on this but generally yea if you want your own family you gotta have a woman involved

5) status - SOME people view being in a relationship as a status symbol


That is all i can think of
---------------------------

Now the negatives

1) Quality - in 2023 most women will have been tainted by social media in some shape or form i have noticed it tends to bring the worst traits out in them frankly i find this very unattractive

2) The rigmarole of the talking / dating stage - as a man i am quite happy to go out on a date with a new woman i like at a moments notice decide wether we like each other if we do move forward if not we leave it there ...... women seem to enjoy the back and forthing and all the nonsense that comes with it

We largely refer to this as "game" in the manosphere because that is literally the only way to describe it

I am not going to sugar coat it i find this ^^^^ perhaps the biggest of waste of my time on planet earth it frequently leads to absolutely nothing and takes a hell of a lot of mental energy to endure

3) Cheating - who cheats more women or men !?! i suspect the answer is equal

problem is when you invest a lot of time and energy in someone the last thing you want to do is find out they have been seeking attention elsewhere yet it happens every single day , the abuse of trust is a real breaker of men


4) Hypergamy - As a man you are almost forced to date below your value otherwise due to their nature women will usually want to "trade up" this almost means a man constantly needs to be levelling up to keep his woman interested ( not always the case but very common ) this can be very tiring

5) Drama - Women do usually love drama and can and will bring it into your life

6) drain on financial resources - some women can clean you out if your not careful

7) divorce - looking at the statistics this is a lot more common than we would like to believe but again the fallout from a failed marriage can be absolutely catastrophic


------------------------
Conclusion:


Appreciate i may have missed some dynamics out but for me at 30 i am starting to see very little benefit in actively pursuing women in 2023 , if one i like drops into my lap i will follow it up until i feel it's become a chore but overall i am going to focus on enjoying being alone and the peace that comes with it

Interested to hear other members perspectives......

Most of the negatives are as old as mankind. We as men are biologically driving to be attracted to women. It's a burden of nature, similar like women will bleed every month .

You gotta find a way to give all of this a positive spin.

1. The quality is indeed subpar these days. But let's face it, so is the quality of men. Perhaps you should move the goal post. Dating and serious relationships? Low quality. Hooking up and having fun? Great times to be alive!

2. Let's say dating is a muscle you have to train. Every date adds to your total experience. The more women you'll date, the better you'll get at it.

3. I agree

4. The most important one. The leveling up willl always benefit you as a man. Not only does it helps to keep your current woman in check, it also allows you to monkeybranche more easily to the next. Once you enter the "always level up " stage, you'll create the right amount of abundance. You level up for you ,not for her. She'll benefit if she's smart. Remember, standing still = going backwards.

5. Again, we would be better of loving women for what they are. She is emotional, we are rational.

6 and 7. Again, move the goal post. If marriage ain't on your mind, than this isn't a problem.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Most of the negatives are as old as mankind. We as men are biologically driving to be attracted to women. It's a burden of nature, similar like women will bleed every month .

You gotta find a way to give all of this a positive spin.

1. The quality is indeed subpar these days. But let's face it, so is the quality of men. Perhaps you should move the goal post. Dating and serious relationships? Low quality. Hooking up and having fun? Great times to be alive!

Yes men are also in decline i don't disagree BUT men generally have to improve themselves in every single aspect of their lives if they want to achieve anything

this in itself automatically forces most men who are fit too date 7's and above into a higher quality bracket by default

Women i just sense have this modern attitude whereby its like

" i am a pretty woman and therefore i deserve the best quality man i can find and even when i find him i will continue to see if can get any better"

They rarely have to do any introspection or self building of any kind and so they become entitled as you do with anything you don't really need to work for

its also why as women get older they become so bitter , the new models replace them and all the attention and validation dries up

 

[Bingo-Player]

OP, you may just need to take a break. I did this year and now I'm literally refreshed. I'm back on the scene and doing well because I developed a patience for the BS that comes with women. It's like a cycle.

I am planning too but that wasn't really the question

It was a question about wether the work we as men put in with women is worth the reward

Personally i would love to see a world whereby all men just stopped chasing women for a week and watched how quickly everything would change (for the better )

 

[EyeBRollin]

Women are a huge liability. IMO only worth it if you want children and older age companionship. The other things- sex, chores, etc. can be outsourced.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I agree


It's going to be very interesting to see how these current generations of social media women age

The cannot have their cake and eat it forever , the level of attention and validation they have become accustomed too will not easily be replaced in their 30's and 40' s

i am noticing women i know who are turning 30 now and are already past their expiry they can't get away with posting the christ traps or making sexy tiktoks because they are too old

the SIMPS have started to move onto the next generation of younger models......

 

[manfrombelow]

A relationship with a woman, as painful as it sounds, takes more than it brings, both in terms of physical and non-physical stuff.

 

[pipeman84]

The word 'handful' you used in OP reminded me of this post from @guru1000 which left an impression in my mind because he had the aura of a successful player. Yet there he was making that admission in bold.

For you younger guys, there's no LTR rush. Enjoy your time, and should one come along leagues ahead of the harem, then give her the gift of your exclusivity should you desire. I can tell you out of all the women I have dated, less than one handful left an impression on me. You'll know when you find her and it's not very often, so enjoy the dating process in the meanwhile and no need to actively seek, as she will come when you least expect it just by plowing through the numbers.

IMO, as long as you're doing something you enjoy, it's worth it. The problem starts when you're doing something foreign to who you are (be it OLD, cold approaching, settling with a woman, etc) just because society, 'experts' family, whoever tells you that's the way things should be done.

 

[Gamisch]

Yes men are also in decline i don't disagree BUT men generally have to improve themselves in every single aspect of their lives if they want to achieve anything

this in itself automatically forces most men who are fit too date 7's and above into a higher quality bracket by default

Women i just sense have this modern attitude whereby its like

" i am a pretty woman and therefore i deserve the best quality man i can find and even when i find him i will continue to see if can get any better"

They rarely have to do any introspection or self building of any kind and so they become entitled as you do with anything you don't really need to work for

its also why as women get older they become so bitter , the new models replace them and all the attention and validation dries up

That's why we as men must level up constantly. Let me give you a honest and personal example.

I am a ADHD light version. Creative ,but at times a chaotic mind. My ex was the opposite. Non flexible and organized like crazy. Imo HB8.

At some point we clashed due our differences. But I had to admit to MYSELF, that I wasnt leveling up enough and refused to work on my weak points. This became especially apparent when I met my next ex, and faced similar challenges. Moral of the story; I HAD TO level up to be able to keep pulling HB8/7 and higher. It were these women that made it clear to me I had to keep going. There's always another "you" in town who is motivated and keeps leveling up, leaving you look meek in contrast. External motivation.


But at some point the external motivation became internalized. Now I understand that women must compliment my life and nothing more. I am way more organized, clean ect. I hit the gym for health reason, I eat better. Mainly because I believe I am worth it, with or without a woman on my side I am the king in my fecking castle amd emperor in my world. Sp I should act accordingly and treat myself best at all times.

Don't underestimate yourself. The harder you grind, the bigger the change that you are her absolute best option. Like I said, most men feel entitled to get a " good" woman , while their own life amd character is shyte. Most men gave up on women. Leaves more meat for us.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Men in long term relationships typically have longer lives than single guys. That probably is the most important pro.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I’ve done a lot of cool things. Been to amazing places. Had some awesome adventures. Great career. Families & friends. But Nothing. Nothing compares with being with a woman.

 

[Serenity]

5) status - SOME people view being in a relationship as a status symbol

I want to expand on this with my view. I wouldn't place that fully in the benefit category, it can be a double-edged sword depending on the type of people you desire respect from. Some people as you say view it as a status symbol, but to some it's the opposite if the superficiality of it is visible. Personally I wouldn't respect a man merely for being with a woman and I would think they're stupid if they're particularly proud of it as if it somehow elevates their status, in my eyes they are of lower status for their dependency on a woman to get respect from others. I view it as weak. Other men of their own level will probably still high five them and view them more positively for having a woman, I don't care about the respect of any of these men. I do have a wife and I know who these men are in my life, because they all started treating me better, I despise it, they don't get it.

4) Hypergamy - As a man you are almost forced to date below your value otherwise due to their nature women will usually want to "trade up" this almost means a man constantly needs to be levelling up to keep his woman interested ( not always the case but very common ) this can be very tiring

Hypergamy is a buzzword in the manosphere, typically with negative connotations. I don't think this is entirely a negative, unless the woman in question is relentlessly branch swinging to "level up" with no disregard for anything or anyone, I don't think this is most women. Maturing, developing, learning, staying ahead, living is tiring, this is natural. This is not really tied to women at all, it's something we should be doing anyways. Becoming stagnant is bad even without a woman in our life. They're doing men a favor giving them a wake up call and a kick in the ass by packing their bags and leaving.

I've been in a relationship since 2015, I wouldn't expect lasting even half as long without developing or learning. I understand that it's a lifelong process, this is what it is to live. I can choose not to, but that's equivalent to choosing suffering. I can only hope my wife leaves me if I ever become that stagnant, I would need it.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I want to expand on this with my view. I wouldn't place that fully in the benefit category, it can be a double-edged sword depending on the type of people you desire respect from. Some people as you say view it as a status symbol, but to some it's the opposite if the superficiality of it is visible. Personally I wouldn't respect a man merely for being with a woman and I would think they're stupid if they're particularly proud of it as if it somehow elevates their status, in my eyes they are of lower status for their dependency on a woman to get respect from others. I view it as weak. Other men of their own level will probably still high five them and view them more positively for having a woman, I don't care about the respect of any of these men. I do have a wife and I know who these men are in my life, because they all started treating me better, I despise it, they don't get it.


Hypergamy is a buzzword in the manosphere, typically with negative connotations. I don't think this is entirely a negative, unless the woman in question is relentlessly branch swinging to "level up" with no disregard for anything or anyone, I don't think this is most women. Maturing, developing, learning, staying ahead, living is tiring, this is natural. This is not really tied to women at all, it's something we should be doing anyways. Becoming stagnant is bad even without a woman in our life. They're doing men a favor giving them a wake up call and a kick in the ass by packing their bags and leaving.

I've been in a relationship since 2015, I wouldn't expect lasting even half as long without developing or learning. I understand that it's a lifelong process, this is what it is to live. I can choose not to, but that's equivalent to choosing suffering. I can only hope my wife leaves me if I ever become that stagnant, I would need it.

While I agree with you that my respect for a man has nothing to do with his relationship status. Much of the World doesn’t agree. A man is judged by many if they determine he is either in relationship or able to easily get one.

 

[Stanley]

I like the thrill of the hunt

 

[Serenity]

While I agree with you that my respect for a man has nothing to do with his relationship status. Much of the World doesn’t agree. A man is judged by many if they determine he is either in relationship or able to easily get one.

I am aware and upon further thought there is some sense to it. The ability of a man to land a woman does signal he might have some inherently desirable qualities which is worthy of respect. The real status does not directly come from the fact that he has a woman, but rather indirectly through having some qualities that would make a woman want to be with him. There's no guarantee there though.

Some men don't understand this, chase women thinking it will solve everything and give them status. Not stopping to consider why and discovering they've got it all backwards, that the woman comes from having the qualities that would already grant the status. They often end up frustrated alone or with a woman who's more trouble than it's worth, just to gain some status, but they'll be right back at square one eventually with no woman and no status.

It's why I scoff at the PUA ways of faking status by being seen with another woman by the primary target or similar tactics. It's just pointless deception, without the actual qualities internalized as a foundation to stand on it will all fall apart shortly after.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Men in long term relationships typically have longer lives than single guys. That probably is the most important pro.

No. 1 rule of statistics: correlation is not to be equated with causation. It may very well be that healthier men are more likely to go end up in long term relationships to begin with.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

No. 1 rule of statistics: correlation is not to be equated with causation. It may very well be that healthier men are more likely to go end up in long term relationships to begin with.

I believe they normalized it and found it still held.