Two different kinds of cultures I have noticed women to be from over the years. (long controversial post warning)

[Jesse Pinkman]

This is a controversial topic which may offend people and something I have talked to about with @BillyPilgrim, @SW15, and to a degree even @Jake_Gyllenhaal69 as well. Over the years, after having interacted with a ton of women, I have noticed that you can pin women down into two different cultures and it is tough to really give them a name. However, I will do my best to give them a name so I can best make the point I want to make on this thread.

I can also be completely wrong here because my experience in life is only so limited.

Within these cultures, you will also notice overlap when it comes to her city, ethnic group, ancestry, and all that but it isn't all black and white (pun somewhat intended). For example, a woman can be from X city or X ethnic group and even though most women from her group fall into one bucket, she does not. Here is how I will identify the two cultures:

1. Natural/beautiful (think of them as the "old rich")
2. Artificial/sexy (think of them as the "new rich")

Because I have no other way to really identify them but in each one, I will break it down more.

Natural/beautiful

I describe women from these kinds of cultures are the types you can have a in-depth conversation with. A lot of them tend to have strong opinions on things and are ready to debate with you on those opinions. When it comes to looks, they are not exactly the types to doll themselves up heavily and their beauty tends to be more of a natural beauty. These are the women who have that model build and are naturally attractive so they don't try that hard to look good.

I also notice that these women do not bleach or dye their hair a lot, they keep it natural.

One traits that strictly differentiates these women from plastic women is that they do not seem wowed by sports cars or any of the flashy things in life. It is almost like they see through the facade and if they are going for a guy, they go more for either the genetics or his vibe. I notice that girls who were raised in wealthier old money type of families are in this category to where their parents had so much money that these girls never really cared as much for the finer things in life.

In terms of behavior, these are the kinds of women who might even hear out a guy running game but if it isn't tight, she is going to let him know she is not interested. Their rejections tend to be classy and a more "thank you but I am not interested" sort of a way.

For them, it is more about learning new things, exploring new places, and newer kinds of adventures because they love to explore them. I have known naturally beautiful girls with this kind of a look who usually have private Instagram accounts (or barely have much of one) and almost prefer not to be seen even if they are hot. They tend to be more low-key and might go for a guy who is making a lot of money but is not flashing as much.

Some of these girls are more of the free spirit type that are wandering through life but a lot will go to a good school, have a nice paying job, and can support themselves as well through that.

Artificial/Sexy

Now I think of these as more of your club girls and dolled up type of girls. My southern brother @Jake_Gyllenhaal69 is all too familiar with the type of Southern Belles that predominate in SEC schools and how some of them fit the mold. With these women, it is more of the opposite where plastic surgeries and a host of other things become the norm. Koko Beaute who @SW15 brings up often fits this mold.

You are most likely to find these girls in any of the popular bars and nightclubs in your city. Fake blonde hair, dolled up look, and you name it. However, I want to point out that regardless of how they look naturally, a lot of work is put in by these girls to look good. Sure gym is one thing but they will often get surgeries and alter their look in a major way to scream to men that they want attention. Think of it as a newly rich guy telling you that he owns a Lambo and he wants to flash it aggressively. These girls are the female equivalent of that guy in the game world.

Even though these women can be attractive as well, you will notice that they might not have the model looks as often. Their looks are sexy but they might be short or might have their imperfections they are very insecure about. In many ways, they try to make up for that insecurity. It is not uncommon for these women to have been an ugly duckling that may have even been plain average in high school or during her formative years before growing into her looks. Even if these girls are not genetically gifted enough to be fashion models, they will obsess over that world like Koko Beaute does.

In terms of behavior, these women are colder. They will intentionally act rude and mean towards any guy who is not top tier as way to show to others how harsh she can be. From their actions, they will give harsher rejections at bars and even in public to show that a guy is not worth their time. They want to let others know that they rejected a guy and some even get a kick out of it.

As for what they do, it is all driven by validation and wanting to fit in. What this mean is trying to go to the fanciest spots, having a public Instagram with a ton of followers, and keeping up with the trends. They want to always be seen as popular so they go out of their way to make it happen. It isn't uncommon for these women to try and bartending jobs and you will often find them in the Service Industry as bottle girls and bartenders.

However, you can still find these women in the corporate world as they will try to get the job at the flashiest company because they want to show that off.

The common underlying theme at times is "I didn't have this validation and status growing up, I must make up for it now and show it off to the world". It is a way of overcompensating for something.

 

[SW15]

Artificial/Sexy

I have tended to interact with this type of woman based on @Jesse Pinkman's descriptions more often than the other type. I perceived a lot of truth in that description. Koko Beaute is definitely a part of it. Sorority gals in the traditional SEC schools are often a part of it. That description also applies to women in a lot of the larger Sun Belt universities that aren't in the SEC as well. Post college women in their 20s/30s in bigger metro areas often fit this description. Dallas has many of these women because there's a big bougie/yuppie scene in Dallas among White college graduates. Superficiality and pretentiousness are big things in this subgroup of Dallas residents. It's part of why Dallas is a tough mating environment.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I have tended to interact with this type of woman based on @Jesse Pinkman's descriptions more often than the other type. I perceived a lot of truth in that description. Koko Beaute is definitely a part of it. Sorority gals in the traditional SEC schools are often a part of it. That description also applies to women in a lot of the larger Sun Belt universities that aren't in the SEC as well. Post college women in their 20s/30s in bigger metro areas often fit this description. Dallas has many of these women because there's a big bougie/yuppie scene in Dallas among White college graduates. Superficiality and pretentiousness are big things in this subgroup of Dallas residents. It's part of why Dallas is a tough mating environment.

Even in Greek Life, I feel like there is a leveling off. I will make an example out of two schools I am familiar with the Greek Life of.

The SEC school I went to had a lot of people in Greek Life that came from Old Money. In them, you noticed a bit of class and just the way they carried themselves was worth respecting. Sure, you had some guys who were rowdy but they were more of an exception to the rule. Same with the sororities, the girls were cool and a lot of them did big things with their life after college. I met a few of them again in NYC and they were great people to hang out with. They were not about the flash and had the substance to them.

Now this is a southern school where a lot of people in Greek Life come from generations of wealth. A lot of their ancestors were amongst the first to come to the US so you had the class you did.

Then, when I lived in NYC, I ran into a lot of people that came from Penn St. I didn't know it at the time but Penn St is a popular school for kids from places like Long Island to end up in. It's laughable that they are so football when their team isn't on par with the SEC's finest. Needless to say, there was a lot of guido trash that ended up at that place.

I interacted with the people from there and it was overcompensating Greek Life. The guys went out of their way to act scummy and act out the worst frat bro stereotypes. As for the women, the quality was sub-par compared to a southern school and they had a bit of trashiness to them.

 

[SW15]

To me, Greek Life becomes irrelevant a few years after graduation, if not immediately after graduation. Some women in their 20s and 30s are still into having the whole ex-sorority sister designation. However, it has been my experience that there is no status in many American cities post college about being Greek Life while in college. I wasn't a member of Greek Life while in college but I can easily date women who were in sororities while in college. If I'm approaching a 24-35 year old woman somewhere in Dallas, it doesn't matter whether they were in a sorority years earlier.

There is a point to be made that ex-sorority sisters would be more of the artificial sexy post college. Also, some of these ex-sorority sister women might have worse attitudes. There are ex-sorority sisters that do end up having to use swipe apps to get attention from men if they haven't paired off by 30.

Artificial/Sexy

Now I think of these as more of your club girls and dolled up type of girls....the type of Southern Belles that predominate in SEC schools and how some of them fit the mold. With these women, it is more of the opposite where plastic surgeries and a host of other things become the norm.

You are most likely to find these girls in any of the popular bars and nightclubs in your city. Fake blonde hair, dolled up look, and you name it. However, I want to point out that regardless of how they look naturally, a lot of work is put in by these girls to look good. Sure gym is one thing but they will often get surgeries and alter their look in a major way to scream to men that they want attention.

Even though these women can be attractive as well, you will notice that they might not have the model looks as often. Their looks are sexy but they might be short or might have their imperfections they are very insecure about. In many ways, they try to make up for that insecurity. It is not uncommon for these women to have been an ugly duckling that may have even been plain average in high school or during her formative years before growing into her looks.

In terms of behavior, these women are colder. They will intentionally act rude and mean towards any guy who is not top tier as way to show to others how harsh she can be. From their actions, they will give harsher rejections at bars and even in public to show that a guy is not worth their time. They want to let others know that they rejected a guy and some even get a kick out of it.

As for what they do, it is all driven by validation and wanting to fit in. What this mean is trying to go to the fanciest spots, having a public Instagram with a ton of followers, and keeping up with the trends. They want to always be seen as popular so they go out of their way to make it happen. It isn't uncommon for these women to try and bartending jobs and you will often find them in the Service Industry as bottle girls and bartenders.

However, you can still find these women in the corporate world as they will try to get the job at the flashiest company because they want to show that off.

I found all of this to be accurate and I agree strongly on the coldness of the interactions. Many ex-sorority sisters in bigger cities will fit this description.

Natural/beautiful

I describe women from these kinds of cultures are the types you can have a in-depth conversation with. A lot of them tend to have strong opinions on things and are ready to debate with you on those opinions. When it comes to looks, they are not exactly the types to doll themselves up heavily and their beauty tends to be more of a natural beauty. These are the women who have that model build and are naturally attractive so they don't try that hard to look good.

I also notice that these women do not bleach or dye their hair a lot, they keep it natural.

One traits that strictly differentiates these women from plastic women is that they do not seem wowed by sports cars or any of the flashy things in life. It is almost like they see through the facade and if they are going for a guy, they go more for either the genetics or his vibe. I notice that girls who were raised in wealthier old money type of families are in this category to where their parents had so much money that these girls never really cared as much for the finer things in life.

In terms of behavior, these are the kinds of women who might even hear out a guy running game but if it isn't tight, she is going to let him know she is not interested. Their rejections tend to be classy and a more "thank you but I am not interested" sort of a way.

For them, it is more about learning new things, exploring new places, and newer kinds of adventures because they love to explore them. I have known naturally beautiful girls with this kind of a look who usually have private Instagram accounts (or barely have much of one) and almost prefer not to be seen even if they are hot. They tend to be more low-key and might go for a guy who is making a lot of money but is not flashing as much.

Some of these girls are more of the free spirit type that are wandering through life but a lot will go to a good school, have a nice paying job, and can support themselves as well through that.

I have had some interactions with this type of woman but these interactions seem less common to me than the Artificial types.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

To me, Greek Life becomes irrelevant a few years after graduation, if not immediately after graduation. Some women in their 20s and 30s are still into having the whole ex-sorority sister designation. However, it has been my experience that there is no status in many American cities post college about being Greek Life while in college. I wasn't a member of Greek Life while in college but I can easily date women who were in sororities while in college. If I'm approaching a 24-35 year old woman somewhere in Dallas, it doesn't matter whether they were in a sorority years earlier.

There is a point to be made that ex-sorority sisters would be more of the artificial sexy post college. Also, some of these ex-sorority sister women might have worse attitudes. There are ex-sorority sisters that do end up having to use swipe apps to get attention from men if they haven't paired off by 30.

I know Black Americans take greek life after graduation WAYYYYY more seriously than the white fraternities.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

@SW15

In Atlanta, they still care even five years after the fact what sorority or fraternity you were in. Those people never move on with that stuff and even boast about it at their workplace. Certain workplaces won't even hire you if you weren't a part of a given fraternity or sorority. Heck, my friend who worked at The Ivy in Buckhead even told me that they don't hire you unless you were an SEC frat guy. Weird weird city yo.

However, in a way you do understand why they do this. A lot of Yankees move down to Atlanta and try to get the social benefits and the locals want to somewhat separate from that. As a result, women kind of keep their distance from some second rate dude from Jersey or Long Island moving down south (for some reason those places send so many people down south).

Once you get past the surface though, you find that some of these people are actually great people. The girls are wife material with a good heart and the guys are good dudes too. Thing is, we get hit with so many trashy Yankees that we decide to become more secluded and to ourselves.

As usual, people from Jersey ruin just about any state they move to, cue South Park episode.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Chase has a really good article about this:

You're Passing Up the Hottest, Coolest Girls

When I first moved to California, I set up a number of dates in advance (thanks, online dating!) so that I’d be able to hit the ground running when I got there. My first date I set up for one week after I’d arrived (I wanted a little time to unpack and make my place presentable first... plus...

www.girlschase.com

"There are some major differences between artificially hot women (who make up the lion’s share of what most men consider “hot”) and naturally (genetically) beautiful women:

1. How flashy they are. If you’ve read (or watched; there’s a new movie out now) The Great Gatsby, you know the difference between “old money” and “new money” – old money is subtle and subdued and regal; new money is flashy and gaudy and in-your-face. Just compare your average rap star who’s recently fallen into wealth with a trust fund baby. The former is suited up in gaudy jewelry and excess, and brags about his wealth obsessively, while the latter is dressed much more conservatively and usually doesn’t mention his wealth. Even though the latter often has far more actual wealth than the former. Artificially hot women vs. genuinely beautiful women? Same deal. The girl who’s born with it is just used to it, and in fact shies away from too much extra attention to it. The girl who’s acquired it, though, wants EVERYBODY to see it.
2. How bitchy they are. With great power comes great responsibility, and women who are born beautiful learn early on to be nice people because they hold a lot of power over men’s hearts. Women who aren’t born this way though often have self-esteem and attitude issues; “ugly on the outside, ugly on the inside” goes the saying. And when they finally figure out how to make themselves “hot”? Get ready for their revenge on men – these are the girls who really DO enjoy rejecting men... because they weren’t in that position for most of their lives. It’s the same any time you give great power to someone who isn’t used to it – abuse goes with the territory.
3. How secure (or not) they are. Deep down, the girl who’s all dressed up knows that, to some degree, it isn’t her all these men want... it’s her makeup, her flash, and her dress. Often these girls have a history of disappointing experiences with men, where their flashiness allows them to snag men who’d normally be out of their reach, only for them to lose those men after a hook up, when the guy gets her clothes off, sees her without the makeup, realizes she’s actually pretty plain, shrugs and has sex with her anyway, then just doesn’t call or, if he does, is uninterested in giving her the relationship she wants. This manifests in, again, much poorer treatment of men than the naturally beautiful girl (who’s often led a charmed life with men) usually exhibits.
4. You don’t get those genes. One of the things I notice happens to a lot of guys when they get a girl who’s significantly more attractive than what they usually get is that they wife her up. Not uncommonly, children soon follow. This includes lots of men who swear until they’re blue in the face that they will be lifelong bachelors. If she’s naturally good looking, of course, you get those genes; if she’s hot, well, since the human body hasn’t evolved to naturally produce makeup in all the right places yet, you can count on having significantly less attractive offspring, all things told. You may not count this among things you need to pay attention to, but these things have a way of sneaking up on you, and if you’re accustomed to having a certain kind of woman around, she’s probably the kind of woman you’ll have around when biology kicks in and blindsides you.

The more she needs to rely on artificial means to boost her beauty score, the more all this applies."


I would say regarding #4, this applies to not only potentially offspring but how well she is going to age.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The girl I got ONEitis over was new money but she was also naturally beautiful, annoyingly competitively opinionated and highly intelligent … I’m always dubious over box A or B… but with that said there’s a lot of truth in it. Nice write up

 

[BadWatermelon]

@BillyPilgrim that article is gold. Lately I've noticed that more attractive women seem to give me nicer rejections than the less attractive ones, and now I know why. FTA:

A bunch of less happy, more likely to be bitter women dressing themselves up as flashy to better compete for high caliber men in the mating/marriage market but ending up disappointed, and ultimately doing a better job fooling the men lower down on the dating totem pole than the men higher up on it, since the men higher up get the chance to sleep with them and see them with their clothes and makeup off and realize they aren’t actually the real deal, while the men lower down never get to realize this and never take them off that pedestal.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Chase has a really good article about this:

You're Passing Up the Hottest, Coolest Girls

When I first moved to California, I set up a number of dates in advance (thanks, online dating!) so that I’d be able to hit the ground running when I got there. My first date I set up for one week after I’d arrived (I wanted a little time to unpack and make my place presentable first... plus...

www.girlschase.com

"There are some major differences between artificially hot women (who make up the lion’s share of what most men consider “hot”) and naturally (genetically) beautiful women:

1. How flashy they are. If you’ve read (or watched; there’s a new movie out now) The Great Gatsby, you know the difference between “old money” and “new money” – old money is subtle and subdued and regal; new money is flashy and gaudy and in-your-face. Just compare your average rap star who’s recently fallen into wealth with a trust fund baby. The former is suited up in gaudy jewelry and excess, and brags about his wealth obsessively, while the latter is dressed much more conservatively and usually doesn’t mention his wealth. Even though the latter often has far more actual wealth than the former. Artificially hot women vs. genuinely beautiful women? Same deal. The girl who’s born with it is just used to it, and in fact shies away from too much extra attention to it. The girl who’s acquired it, though, wants EVERYBODY to see it.
2. How bitchy they are. With great power comes great responsibility, and women who are born beautiful learn early on to be nice people because they hold a lot of power over men’s hearts. Women who aren’t born this way though often have self-esteem and attitude issues; “ugly on the outside, ugly on the inside” goes the saying. And when they finally figure out how to make themselves “hot”? Get ready for their revenge on men – these are the girls who really DO enjoy rejecting men... because they weren’t in that position for most of their lives. It’s the same any time you give great power to someone who isn’t used to it – abuse goes with the territory.
3. How secure (or not) they are. Deep down, the girl who’s all dressed up knows that, to some degree, it isn’t her all these men want... it’s her makeup, her flash, and her dress. Often these girls have a history of disappointing experiences with men, where their flashiness allows them to snag men who’d normally be out of their reach, only for them to lose those men after a hook up, when the guy gets her clothes off, sees her without the makeup, realizes she’s actually pretty plain, shrugs and has sex with her anyway, then just doesn’t call or, if he does, is uninterested in giving her the relationship she wants. This manifests in, again, much poorer treatment of men than the naturally beautiful girl (who’s often led a charmed life with men) usually exhibits.
4. You don’t get those genes. One of the things I notice happens to a lot of guys when they get a girl who’s significantly more attractive than what they usually get is that they wife her up. Not uncommonly, children soon follow. This includes lots of men who swear until they’re blue in the face that they will be lifelong bachelors. If she’s naturally good looking, of course, you get those genes; if she’s hot, well, since the human body hasn’t evolved to naturally produce makeup in all the right places yet, you can count on having significantly less attractive offspring, all things told. You may not count this among things you need to pay attention to, but these things have a way of sneaking up on you, and if you’re accustomed to having a certain kind of woman around, she’s probably the kind of woman you’ll have around when biology kicks in and blindsides you.

The more she needs to rely on artificial means to boost her beauty score, the more all this applies."


I would say regarding #4, this applies to not only potentially offspring but how well she is going to age.

Right on.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Chase has a really good article about this:

You're Passing Up the Hottest, Coolest Girls

When I first moved to California, I set up a number of dates in advance (thanks, online dating!) so that I’d be able to hit the ground running when I got there. My first date I set up for one week after I’d arrived (I wanted a little time to unpack and make my place presentable first... plus...

www.girlschase.com

"There are some major differences between artificially hot women (who make up the lion’s share of what most men consider “hot”) and naturally (genetically) beautiful women:

1. How flashy they are. If you’ve read (or watched; there’s a new movie out now) The Great Gatsby, you know the difference between “old money” and “new money” – old money is subtle and subdued and regal; new money is flashy and gaudy and in-your-face. Just compare your average rap star who’s recently fallen into wealth with a trust fund baby. The former is suited up in gaudy jewelry and excess, and brags about his wealth obsessively, while the latter is dressed much more conservatively and usually doesn’t mention his wealth. Even though the latter often has far more actual wealth than the former. Artificially hot women vs. genuinely beautiful women? Same deal. The girl who’s born with it is just used to it, and in fact shies away from too much extra attention to it. The girl who’s acquired it, though, wants EVERYBODY to see it.
2. How bitchy they are. With great power comes great responsibility, and women who are born beautiful learn early on to be nice people because they hold a lot of power over men’s hearts. Women who aren’t born this way though often have self-esteem and attitude issues; “ugly on the outside, ugly on the inside” goes the saying. And when they finally figure out how to make themselves “hot”? Get ready for their revenge on men – these are the girls who really DO enjoy rejecting men... because they weren’t in that position for most of their lives. It’s the same any time you give great power to someone who isn’t used to it – abuse goes with the territory.
3. How secure (or not) they are. Deep down, the girl who’s all dressed up knows that, to some degree, it isn’t her all these men want... it’s her makeup, her flash, and her dress. Often these girls have a history of disappointing experiences with men, where their flashiness allows them to snag men who’d normally be out of their reach, only for them to lose those men after a hook up, when the guy gets her clothes off, sees her without the makeup, realizes she’s actually pretty plain, shrugs and has sex with her anyway, then just doesn’t call or, if he does, is uninterested in giving her the relationship she wants. This manifests in, again, much poorer treatment of men than the naturally beautiful girl (who’s often led a charmed life with men) usually exhibits.
4. You don’t get those genes. One of the things I notice happens to a lot of guys when they get a girl who’s significantly more attractive than what they usually get is that they wife her up. Not uncommonly, children soon follow. This includes lots of men who swear until they’re blue in the face that they will be lifelong bachelors. If she’s naturally good looking, of course, you get those genes; if she’s hot, well, since the human body hasn’t evolved to naturally produce makeup in all the right places yet, you can count on having significantly less attractive offspring, all things told. You may not count this among things you need to pay attention to, but these things have a way of sneaking up on you, and if you’re accustomed to having a certain kind of woman around, she’s probably the kind of woman you’ll have around when biology kicks in and blindsides you.

The more she needs to rely on artificial means to boost her beauty score, the more all this applies."


I would say regarding #4, this applies to not only potentially offspring but how well she is going to age.

Chase is definitely one of the best voices in the game.

Given that it is you I can speak to about this, I notice how some cultures produce a lot of artificial women and some produce more naturally beautiful ones.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

@BillyPilgrim

I wanted to bump this thread because I caught up with a buddy of mines that works in finance and wealth management. We were out one time and reflected on our time at a restaurant called Swan, basically it was opened by a celebrity and lots of guys roll in there looking wealthy and flashy. Well, when we were out, he was able to point out a lot of his clients. From what he told me, some of them are drowning in debt because they are trying to keep up the appearances.

The guys get wooed by an overly dressed woman that comes off as entitled and are expected to pay hundreds on a first date, kind of like with Koko that @SW15 brings up. Then they continue to chase that keeping with the joneses lifestyle and even take out loans to do it. Soon, you realize that the leased Lambos and weekday nights spent sipping on wine and eating expensive foods add up. A number of these dudes even declare bankruptcy and have to move in with their parents as adults.

However, I wanted to dig more into this since you and I talk about the Catholic complex. I feel like while Protestant societies advanced and learned to value knowledge and experiences, the Catholics for the large part stuck to the flashiness. Even when you look at GDP per capita right now, the Catholic countries are near the bottom. Heck, Italy has a lower GDP per Capita than the EU average and the reason it isn't lower is because the North of the country is crazy wealthy.

GDP per capita PPP - Countries - List | Europe

This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - GDP per capita PPP. This page provides values for GDP per capita PPP reported in several countries part of Europe. The table has current values for GDP per capita PPP...

tradingeconomics.com

But you really see it in the behavior of the people and the women from these cultures. Great emphasis placed on what others think while Protestants try to do the right thing. I have seen it time and time again where Protestants and people from more of that classier wealth background act independently and do what they feel is right. Meanwhile, people of the new wealth worshiping materialism background (namely Catholics) will do whatever is popular, even if they know it is not the right thing to do.

I go back to women here because women of such backgrounds are as you described.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

However, I wanted to dig more into this since you and I talk about the Catholic complex. I feel like while Protestant societies advanced and learned to value knowledge and experiences, the Catholics for the large part stuck to the flashiness. Even when you look at GDP per capita right now, the Catholic countries are near the bottom. Heck, Italy has a lower GDP per Capita than the EU average and the reason it isn't lower is because the North of the country is crazy wealthy.

catholic countries tend to have terrible work ethic and a more feminine (Disneyish/Dreamy) view of life. Only in Catholic countries will you have issues trying to find an open Mcdonalds at 9am lol. I believe it's just the country because a lot of groups from catholic countries will come here and have a good work ethic..(Mexicans, Italians). Lol I know you aren't fond of Italian Americans, but they have contributed a great deal to American society.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

catholic countries tend to have terrible work ethic and a more feminine (Disneyish/Dreamy) view of life. Only in Catholic countries will you have issues trying to find an open Mcdonalds at 9am lol. I believe it's just the country because a lot of groups from catholic countries will come here and have a good work ethic..(Mexicans, Italians). Lol I know you aren't fond of Italian Americans, but they have contributed a great deal to American society.

I will disagree with you there, tbh, I never know why black folks have a fascination with Italians given that Italian Americans hate blacks with a passion and tend to worship the Nordic look. However, move to NYC or live in Jersey one day my friend, you will quickly realize why being near them makes you less fond of them.

However, I will say this. Early Italian immigrants to the US and those who came back in the day had work ethic and some were even cultured. You see it in the likes of Martin Scorsese who grew up during a time when most were not too fond of Italians and often let their creativity, work ethic, and humble demeanor speak for itself. Even then, I think their contribution to America and its culture pales in comparison to other Euro groups. If you are to say Italians have contributed a lot to American society, then you have to say that about most ethnic groups out there. Heck, I'd even say Black Americans have contributed a great deal to American society from the music back in the day (Jazz) to food to literally building the very land we stand on.

Modern day Italian Americans are nothing like their hardworking and humble grandfathers though, at least not in the NY or NJ area. Modern day Italian Americans are those that desperately try to be like the spoiled trust fund WASPs and fail at it because they also bring that cringey backwards ethnic attitude with them (family, being religious, and cliquishness). Modern day Italian Americans from the NY and NJ area are lazy, drama hungry, narcissistic, divisive, bitter, and toxic.

As for Italian Americans elsewhere, to me they are just Americans and nothing else.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

@Jake_Gyllenhaal69 It is interesting you bring up Catholic immigrants too. IMO, overtime, they tend to somewhat ruin the societies that they move to en masse. Case in point, Italians in Southern France. Marseille is an organized crime infested dump solely due to so many Italians moving there. Personally, I will never understand how Italians flood into countries like Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, America, Canada, and Australia but then a generation later, turn into the most Alt Right Xenophobes known to man kind.

I admire the Jews in the northeast USA who moved there, worked hard, made something of themselves, and act with class and decency. It is worth a discussion as to how the Jews in the US still retain that love for their identity and where they came from instead of trying to play lapdog to the old guard. Meanwhile, the Irish and Italians turned full blown Neo Nazis and thought it would make them equal to the WASPs.

I bring this up because Italian migrants literally anywhere in the world are all like this. They leave Italy given the shaky history of the country, settle into whatever land they can, and a generation later become bitter and angry at any other immigrant group that tries to do the same thing. Even in a place like France, the most bigoted people and xenophobic types are found in the south and surprise surprise, they are usually of Italian descent. Same with the northeast of the US, 80% of the genuinely racist "whites" there are of Italian descent.

It is like this short memory they have where in a generation or two, they quickly forget where they came from and act like they are old money WASPs all of a sudden.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

@Jake_Gyllenhaal69 However, I think with Mexicans and Hispanic immigrants, things might be different than they were with the Irish and especially the Italians. I am in Miami and notice that Latinos have formed their own culture that almost competes with Anglo culture rather than trying to cozy up with it. It has shown in the way they act too which is why I find myself liking Hispanic Americans a lot. They still retain the work ethic their grandfathers had and they take pride in the fact that they are different, often retaining their language. I see it in Latino culture being spread across the US in the music we listen to and the food we love.

People might say racial slurs to Latinos but I find that they do not care at all, they embrace being who they are with their culture and often try to challenge the Anglo structure. Compare that with East Coast Italians who tend to worship the old guard and want validation from the Northern Europeans.

Perhaps it goes way back in history where Spain was one of the few countries in Europe that dared to challenge England. Then that carried over to the modern day Hispanic who sees the Anglo Saxon male as a rival rather than his superior.

 

[RJami1]

Catholic nations frequently have a poor work ethic and a more feminine (Disneyesque/Dreamy) outlook on life. You'll have trouble trying to find an open McDonald's at 9 a.m. just in Catholic nations, funny. Since many groups from catholic nations will come here and have a strong work ethic, I think it's just the country (Mexicans, Italians). Although I am aware that you dislike Italian Americans, they have made significant contributions to American civilization.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I will disagree with you there, tbh, I never know why black folks have a fascination with Italians given that Italian Americans hate blacks with a passion and tend to worship the Nordic look. However, move to NYC or live in Jersey one day my friend, you will quickly realize why being near them makes you less fond of them.

Lol my friend asked me that this morning and I said Italians are no different than other groups of people when it comes to racism against black. Show them you aren't a menace to society and their shell usually cracks. Now, the racism I find the worst is racism that stemmed from Anglo-Britain. That type of racism is the only racism that will reject money, safety, and progress to retain it. The UK has dropped this, but you can still see remnants of this type of racism in the Southern USA and South Africa. Shvt like Jim Crow, the one drop rule, and anti-libertarian racial policies in general uniquely existed in Anglo-sphere countries. You want to destroy any pro-capitalist/libertarian argument, give them a history lesson on any former British colony lol.

I don't know much about the modern Italian work ethic, but I know good amount of hard-working well-off ones. I love their cuisine, history, culture, and women. Sure they got some bad apples, but what group of people doesn't lol.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Okay I’m done talking history

 

[BillyPilgrim]

@BillyPilgrim

I wanted to bump this thread because I caught up with a buddy of mines that works in finance and wealth management. We were out one time and reflected on our time at a restaurant called Swan, basically it was opened by a celebrity and lots of guys roll in there looking wealthy and flashy. Well, when we were out, he was able to point out a lot of his clients. From what he told me, some of them are drowning in debt because they are trying to keep up the appearances.

The guys get wooed by an overly dressed woman that comes off as entitled and are expected to pay hundreds on a first date, kind of like with Koko that @SW15 brings up. Then they continue to chase that keeping with the joneses lifestyle and even take out loans to do it. Soon, you realize that the leased Lambos and weekday nights spent sipping on wine and eating expensive foods add up. A number of these dudes even declare bankruptcy and have to move in with their parents as adults.

However, I wanted to dig more into this since you and I talk about the Catholic complex. I feel like while Protestant societies advanced and learned to value knowledge and experiences, the Catholics for the large part stuck to the flashiness. Even when you look at GDP per capita right now, the Catholic countries are near the bottom. Heck, Italy has a lower GDP per Capita than the EU average and the reason it isn't lower is because the North of the country is crazy wealthy.

GDP per capita PPP - Countries - List | Europe

This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - GDP per capita PPP. This page provides values for GDP per capita PPP reported in several countries part of Europe. The table has current values for GDP per capita PPP...

tradingeconomics.com

But you really see it in the behavior of the people and the women from these cultures. Great emphasis placed on what others think while Protestants try to do the right thing. I have seen it time and time again where Protestants and people from more of that classier wealth background act independently and do what they feel is right. Meanwhile, people of the new wealth worshiping materialism background (namely Catholics) will do whatever is popular, even if they know it is not the right thing to do.

I go back to women here because women of such backgrounds are as you described.

People in Catholic countries tend to be more impulsive genetically than ones in Protestant ones (hence not just materialism but corruption). Catholic countries tend to*need* the Catholic church as a control mechanism for the greater good; Protestant countries don't and that's why they revolted. I would say Italy is an exception, they are capable people but when the dudes can't get laid there it will be demotivating.