Careerist/educated women are underrated and get too much hate

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I really don’t get the hate for these type of women in the manosphere community. I hear that they have shvtty attitudes and do not give you enough attention compared to NEET or other types of women. Personally, I find the sex with these women to be way better because they will release all of that build up stress/energy on you in the bed room. Plus, it’s so much hotter to know that this professional girl is a complete sex freak to you in the bedroom. A waitress/bartender tend to look more loose/slutty so you don’t get that factor with them.

First, a shvtty attitude is a sign of low interest in which can come from any women regardless of career status. I do think certain jobs attract different types of women, but her attitude towards you will always be based on her interest level. We are also assuming she isn’t some slut or anything. Second, I’m a grown ass man so I don’t need another human being constantly needing my attention. Third, I’ve dated waitresses and such and they can work just as many or more hours than a career women. Plus, they tend to have habits & standards that conflict with my schedule. For example, I work 9-5, weekends off, and try and be in bed by 11…..TRY. This girl works night shifts, her “weekends” are on Mondays & Tuesday’s and her lifestyle/friends in general are a conflict of interest. You are sleeping on a Tuesday night while she is out smoking weed/drinking with her night shift friends. Did I mention Colby & Jamal are in this group and they are constantly trying to fvck your girl? If you cannot be there with your girl for social outings then you are fvcked my friend lol. No wonder y’all don’t trust women lol.

NEET/student girls are the worst because you have to deal with their dependence on parents and it feels like you are raising a child. Break ups with NEET/student women sting the most because of the amount investment you put In the relationship. It’s an insult to be betrayed by this adult child because she is an immature idiot lol.

The last point I have is that most women in general have a bachelors degree and are chasing some career at most ages. Where and who are y’all dating then if the majority of women are disqualified?

 

[pipeman84]

I think men take issue with careerist women because they're basically a man with breasts and a pvssy and as a heterosexual man you want to be with a woman, not another man. Let's not mix up an educated woman with a white collar 9-5 job where she goes to get a paycheck and pay the bills and if the man makes enough money she's happy to stay at home, to a careerist woman who does overtime and whatever it takes and has a goal to be CEO of the company by the time she's 40. The latter has masculine tendencies which doesn't make her a good prospect for a relationship. That you can have good sex with one is irrelevant...you can have good sex with an escort, that doesn't make her relationship worthy.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Frankly it’s my belief that a lot of us talk about our strict rules about women and that there’s no way you’re going to chase a woman that violates any of those rules. Anyone who thinks about this for a moment and evaluates their choices in women knows that all of us make allowances in almost all circumstances.

We all get blustery about getting exactly what we want but we usually end up with less than what we want and that’s why we’re here trying to figure it all out.

Why not drop the pretense and be real?

 

[kavi]

Career girls with money are always the best girls.

 

[SW15]

I really don’t get the hate for these type of women in the manosphere community. I hear that they have shvtty attitudes and do not give you enough attention

The main issue is that careerist/educated women do not prioritize being a girlfriend as much as women in the following categories

• Women with bachelor's degrees and jobs but not demanding workloads
• Women with less than a bachelor's degree
• Current college students

With career women, you're competing with her job, her extracurricular activities, her dog/her cat, and her friends. Most of those she places in importance above you. Women in the other 3 categories may have some of those, but they seem more willing to prioritize a man and less self-centered.

I think men take issue with careerist women because they're basically a man with breasts and a pvssy and as a heterosexual man you want to be with a woman, not another man.

Yes, this is a big part of it. Also, these women incessantly talk about work, which is annoying. I don't want to talk about workplace topics while out on a date or even when I'm chilling with my male friends.

I’ve dated waitresses and such and they can work just as many or more hours than career women. Plus, they tend to have habits & standards that conflict with my schedule. For example, I work 9-5, weekends off, and try and be in bed by 11.This girl works night shifts, her “weekends” are on Mondays & Tuesday’s and her lifestyle/friends in general are a conflict of interest. You are sleeping on a Tuesday night while she is out smoking weed/drinking with her night shift friends. Did I mention Colby & Jamal are in this group and they are constantly trying to fvck your girl? If you cannot be there with your girl for social outings then you are fvcked my friend lol. No wonder y’all don’t trust women lol.

I would rather have a medium term relationship with a Hooters or Twin Peaks waitress/bartender than a career-oriented woman such as a dentist or an accountant.

The last time I went to Twin Peaks with a male friend, I was looking around the room at the women. I realized that I wasn't meeting any Hooters/Twin Peaks type waitresses in my usual places for meeting women. I think that is common occurrence with white collar men. Service sector females don't seem to run in the same social circles or even go to the same places at the same times on their leisure time as white collar men. Therefore, white collar men are at a disadvantage when trying to meet these women.

If somehow a man can meet one of these service sector women while both he and his target woman are off duty, then there's another major issue.

The biggest problem for most men working white collar jobs is scheduling with women working waitress/retail/bartending/stripping jobs. Monday-Friday office workers want to spend time mid-day Saturdays-Sundays or Friday/Saturday nights with their girlfriends. That's going to be very difficult to pull off with a girlfriend with a service sector job. It would be possible to do with a college student who doesn't have a part time job though. You would want to do that with an undergraduate student rather than a graduate student. A graduate student in a lot of disciplines already has many careerist/feminist beliefs and traits.

Blue collar men with Monday-Friday daytime schedules have the same issues described above as the white collar men. A man has to work in a job with less conventional hours to be well positioned to date a service sector worker with any degree of longevity.

The last point I have is that most women in general have a bachelors degree and are chasing some career at most ages. Where and who are y’all dating then if the majority of women are disqualified?

Let's not mix up an educated woman with a white collar 9-5 job where she goes to get a paycheck and pay the bills and if the man makes enough money she's happy to stay at home, to a careerist woman who does overtime and whatever it takes and has a goal to be CEO of the company by the time she's 40. The latter has masculine tendencies which doesn't make her a good prospect for a relationship.

It's essentially impossible to disqualify women based on a bachelor's degree. Women with bachelor's degrees are wide ranging. There are women with bachelor's degrees who have jobs who can be decent medium term girlfriends (or more for men seeking more) and then there are women who are career above all else women. It can be challenging to filter through this group. There are two ways I've tried to filter and I'll describe them below.

One way to filter through women with bachelor's degree is to consider where they attended school and graduated. Simply put, women who graduated from less prestigious schools are more likely to be better girlfriend material. You're more likely to find a better girlfriend from a basic public university like Colorado State or Auburn as compared to some elitist university like Harvard or Yale. This is somewhat reliable and useful. There are women who go to basic public universities who end up as careerists. Also, I find there's a third category of university. Women who graduate from private schools that aren't top tier privates. Examples of these schools would be Southern Methodist University (SMU), Texas Christian University (TCU), and University of Miami. While I would rather date someone from a basic public school than SMU or TCU, SMU/TCU do produce some dateable women.

The second way is a more reliable filter. If a woman has an advanced degree, then she's more likely to be a career first woman. Plenty of men do eliminate all women with any advanced degree (master's, doctorates, etc).

NEET/student girls are the worst

College students are acceptable in certain cases.

NEET women are quite difficult. I know one guy who dated a NEET during The Great Recession and that was a disaster. Fortunately, he emerged from it without major damage. One of my good friends now wifed up a NEET. That's a ticking timebomb. With NEETs, there are often mental disorders and other assorted problems.

At least waitresses, retail store employees, bartenders, and strippers work.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Personally, I find it attractive when a girl has a bachelors and post graduate degree, but only if I was already attracted to her anyways.

 

[kavi]

Independant women who "dont need a man" will always be the best women and if men want women to behave better and cause less drama and emotional chaos and game-playing then this is what we want women to become.

Most of womens mistreatment of men and sense of value and entitlement comes from traditional patriarchy where women where weak and had to depend on their husband (relationship) for many things. This means women see sex and love ie relationship as an exchange. Men want sex and women want commitment/resources etc. This is very problematic in the modern world and is the root of women behaving badly.

Weak and insecure people always behave the worst and cause the most problems. This is very true for women.

The more money and resources women have and the less men have will incentivise women to behave better and respect men more. Because they wont see men as something to 'play' or manipulate to get commitment, lock a man down or get resources.

Most men just dont understand how much better their lives and the world would be if we just gave all the money and work to women and we just took a backseat. We would have a lot more peace and happiness, women wouldnt be disrespecting us. If women had all the money and resources and jobs they would be kept busy doing all that stuff (which they actually enjoy more than men) and they would just want men for companionship, love, leadership and masculinity rather than trying to manipulating men for commitment and resources.

If women dont have money and jobs and need to exchange relationships for resources ie marriage and traditionalism they are just glorifies prosititutes and then they put this financial value on their vagina which is root of womens ego and insecurities and problems in relationships.

 

[Barrister]

This will be anecdotal, but I dated another attorney for 2.5 years. Here is what I can tell you:

PROS
-Very task oriented
-Intelligent (usually) - they will be able to engage you on a more intellectual level which certainly can spice things up
-They have their own money (usually)

CONS
-Constant frame wars with you/will be very resistant to being "led" by you in any fashion
-Will place less importance on the relationship than the average woman/her "career" is always a game changer as it relates to your relationship
-Tend to have more negative opinions on traditional values as it relates to men which usually is going to clash with a red-pill outlook

What I found was that I constantly had to use dread game on this ex to keep her in line and to keep myself in a stronger position in the relationship than her. But this is exhausting to have to do nonstop. And admittedly, this may not be directly related to her being a careerist, but I think these types of characteristics pop up very often with these types of women more-so than they otherwise do.

I prefer a woman who wants a real man to lead her. Careerist women generally are not going to be programmed to think this way. They are going to be highly independent many times and this makes maintaining a LTR very difficult on a number of levels.

 

[kavi]

In dealing with these types of women it is important to take a back seat. Her career should always be more important than yours. Why? Since women have entered the workforce it is now unmanly to be a career guy cos you are just doing for 8 hours a day the same thing as a woman and you are competing with them.

To deal with career women I think you have to take a backseat and 'lead from behind' ie you are providing the emotional and social support while she goes out and makes money. It is like the Pimp mindset.

Most men will not enjoy a life with a career woman if they are also a career guy. It will clash. The problem isnt women working and having careers it is men working and having careers.

Work and Careers are a feminine thing. At the end of the day most of the money and resources in any society are used up by women cos they are the ones raising children and they are the ones that need materialism more than men. Even in Islam it is said the mans money belongs to the wife, but the womans money is her own.

Let the women work and make the money. Men should take a backseat and just focus on the important stuff like organizing society, military when needed, leadership, helping out etc. It becomes much easier to deal with career women when you yourself dont have a demanding career.

 

[Hal9000]

After dating a bunch of broke women who didnt have two nickels to rub together I found it refreshing to date someone with an actual career, money in the bank, her own home, etc. Since I also have those things it was a more natural fit than dating a waitress or someone who lived off their exes child support. Sure some career oriented women can have issues but I can guarantee you that a woman who is having to eek out a living is going have issues as well. Personally I have no problems with my partner making a lot more than me and being able to pay for their share of trips or whatever. If that means I have to occasionally compete with their job stresses then so be it.

 

[Dr.Suave]

After dating a bunch of broke women who didnt have two nickels to rub together I found it refreshing to date someone with an actual career, money in the bank, her own home, etc. Since I also have those things it was a more natural fit than dating a waitress

This 100%. My previous LTR had no career, only ever finished high school, she had low paying job. Expected me to always pay for food/entertainment when we out. When I initiated sex, sometimes she comply and sometimes she didnt.

My current LTR is younger, hotter, has a career, post gradute degree, her own business, always pays for dinner (hers and mine), has a higher sex drive than mine so she´s always in the mood for sex, she gave me a brand New Xbox Series for my birthday. It was a f0cking gift from the heavens when my previous LTR broke up with me because I traded up in everyway. Guys who been through bad breakups like @Blacksheep should pay attention to my words.

Career girl or not. She has to comply or bye.

 

[KingTurbo]

The main issue is that careerist/educated women do not prioritize being a girlfriend as much as women in the following categories

• Women with bachelor's degrees and jobs but not demanding workloads
• Women with less than a bachelor's degree
• Current college students

With career women, you're competing with her job, her extracurricular activities, her dog/her cat, and her friends. Most of those she places in importance above you. Women in the other 3 categories may have some of those, but they seem more willing to prioritize a man and less self-centered.



Yes, this is a big part of it. Also, these women incessantly talk about work, which is annoying. I don't want to talk about workplace topics while out on a date or even when I'm chilling with my male friends.



I would rather have a medium term relationship with a Hooters or Twin Peaks waitress/bartender than a career-oriented woman such as a dentist or an accountant.

The last time I went to Twin Peaks with a male friend, I was looking around the room at the women. I realized that I wasn't meeting any Hooters/Twin Peaks type waitresses in my usual places for meeting women. I think that is common occurrence with white collar men. Service sector females don't seem to run in the same social circles or even go to the same places at the same times on their leisure time as white collar men. Therefore, white collar men are at a disadvantage when trying to meet these women.

If somehow a man can meet one of these service sector women while both he and his target woman are off duty, then there's another major issue.

The biggest problem for most men working white collar jobs is scheduling with women working waitress/retail/bartending/stripping jobs. Monday-Friday office workers want to spend time mid-day Saturdays-Sundays or Friday/Saturday nights with their girlfriends. That's going to be very difficult to pull off with a girlfriend with a service sector job. It would be possible to do with a college student who doesn't have a part time job though. You would want to do that with an undergraduate student rather than a graduate student. A graduate student in a lot of disciplines already has many careerist/feminist beliefs and traits.

Blue collar men with Monday-Friday daytime schedules have the same issues described above as the white collar men. A man has to work in a job with less conventional hours to be well positioned to date a service sector worker with any degree of longevity.





It's essentially impossible to disqualify women based on a bachelor's degree. Women with bachelor's degrees are wide ranging. There are women with bachelor's degrees who have jobs who can be decent medium term girlfriends (or more for men seeking more) and then there are women who are career above all else women. It can be challenging to filter through this group. There are two ways I've tried to filter and I'll describe them below.

One way to filter through women with bachelor's degree is to consider where they attended school and graduated. Simply put, women who graduated from less prestigious schools are more likely to be better girlfriend material. You're more likely to find a better girlfriend from a basic public university like Colorado State or Auburn as compared to some elitist university like Harvard or Yale. This is somewhat reliable and useful. There are women who go to basic public universities who end up as careerists. Also, I find there's a third category of university. Women who graduate from private schools that aren't top tier privates. Examples of these schools would be Southern Methodist University (SMU), Texas Christian University (TCU), and University of Miami. While I would rather date someone from a basic public school than SMU or TCU, SMU/TCU do produce some dateable women.

The second way is a more reliable filter. If a woman has an advanced degree, then she's more likely to be a career first woman. Plenty of men do eliminate all women with any advanced degree (master's, doctorates, etc).



College students are acceptable in certain cases.

NEET women are quite difficult. I know one guy who dated a NEET during The Great Recession and that was a disaster. Fortunately, he emerged from it without major damage. One of my good friends now wifed up a NEET. That's a ticking timebomb. With NEETs, there are often mental disorders and other assorted problems.

At least waitresses, retail store employees, bartenders, and strippers work.

Your advice is so legit dude.Bookmarked this and will read the rest later.

Career girls have too much going on. Most of them from my experience are locked in anyway. They married got a fiancé when they were younger and popped out kids immediately.

Waitresses and women below you are easier to enjoy as it is.They don’t seem as “serious”

 

[logicallefty]

There are a lot of good points in this thread.

@Hal9000 Your points about dating broke women are spot on. It will be fine at first but eventually they get really tiresome to be around. I've had women say they would love to come over but I would have to give them "gas money" to drive 10 miles. Sometimes they talk non stop about why they are so poor and how it's the rest of the world's fault but their own. Oh and the child support, the entitlement they get for that just blows me away.

@pipeman84 your points were good about not wanting to a woman who acts like a man. I have found this especially true with women who are managers. I've had to set women down before and tell them they need to work on transitioning from work to personal life because once they get to personal life, they don't get to order people (me) around anymore. All women are bossy but I think the ones who are bosses at work can be extra trouble for men. It goes to their heads really hard.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Independant women who "dont need a man" will always be the best women and if men want women to behave better and cause less drama and emotional chaos and game-playing then this is what we want women to become.

Most of womens mistreatment of men and sense of value and entitlement comes from traditional patriarchy where women where weak and had to depend on their husband (relationship) for many things. This means women see sex and love ie relationship as an exchange. Men want sex and women want commitment/resources etc. This is very problematic in the modern world and is the root of women behaving badly.

Weak and insecure people always behave the worst and cause the most problems. This is very true for women.

The more money and resources women have and the less men have will incentivise women to behave better and respect men more. Because they wont see men as something to 'play' or manipulate to get commitment, lock a man down or get resources.

Most men just dont understand how much better their lives and the world would be if we just gave all the money and work to women and we just took a backseat. We would have a lot more peace and happiness, women wouldnt be disrespecting us. If women had all the money and resources and jobs they would be kept busy doing all that stuff (which they actually enjoy more than men) and they would just want men for companionship, love, leadership and masculinity rather than trying to manipulating men for commitment and resources.

If women dont have money and jobs and need to exchange relationships for resources ie marriage and traditionalism they are just glorifies prosititutes and then they put this financial value on their vagina which is root of womens ego and insecurities and problems in relationships.

In dealing with these types of women it is important to take a back seat. Her career should always be more important than yours. Why? Since women have entered the workforce it is now unmanly to be a career guy cos you are just doing for 8 hours a day the same thing as a woman and you are competing with them.

To deal with career women I think you have to take a backseat and 'lead from behind' ie you are providing the emotional and social support while she goes out and makes money. It is like the Pimp mindset.

Most men will not enjoy a life with a career woman if they are also a career guy. It will clash. The problem isnt women working and having careers it is men working and having careers.

Work and Careers are a feminine thing. At the end of the day most of the money and resources in any society are used up by women cos they are the ones raising children and they are the ones that need materialism more than men. Even in Islam it is said the mans money belongs to the wife, but the womans money is her own.

Let the women work and make the money. Men should take a backseat and just focus on the important stuff like organizing society, military when needed, leadership, helping out etc. It becomes much easier to deal with career women when you yourself dont have a demanding career.

Please continue

 

[BillyPilgrim]

These type of women will be less likely to be dtf. But if they're dtf, they're dtf.

 

[pipeman84]

I would rather have a medium term relationship with a Hooters or Twin Peaks waitress/bartender than a career-oriented woman such as a dentist or an accountant.

Let's use dentist to illustrate the distinction between careerist and an educated professional. A careerist dentist will try to get as many patients as she can and/or focus on the most income producing procedures, maybe working for 2 different dental practices with the goal of eventually owning the practice and perhaps expanding it into a chain. An educated professional on the other hand will be satisfied working 3-4 days/week concentrating on the procedures she enjoys the most.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Let's use dentist to illustrate the distinction between careerist and an educated professional. A careerist dentist will try to get as many patients as she can and/or focus on the most income producing procedures, maybe working for 2 different dental practices with the goal of eventually owning the practice and perhaps expanding it into a chain. An educated professional on the other hand will be satisfied working 3-4 days/week concentrating on the procedures she enjoys the most.

I don't know bro. My girl is a dentist with her own práctice and shes the most submissive girl I've had. But it might One of those "Excepcions make the rule" situation

 

[pipeman84]

@Dr.Suave is she the sole dentist there or has 5 more dentists employed plus auxiliary staff and after 7-8 hours of practicing dentistry a day she has to take care of the business as well?

 

[Dr.Suave]

@Dr.Suave is she the sole dentist there or has 5 more dentists employed plus auxiliary staff and after 7-8 hours of practicing dentistry a day she has to take care of the business as well?

Sometimes She's alone. Sometimes she has an assistant. Sometimes a different type of dentist with different specialty comes.

There are about 1-3 days in a week I don't see her because I Got other Things going on. The days I don't plan on seeing her, she stays after closing time doing taxes n taking care of the business.

 

[The Duke]

I've dated every type of woman possible, multiple times.

I see 3 levels:

Level 1: (Waitress, Secretary, Vet Assistant, Clothing Store Worker)
Pro's- they are thoughtful, take care of their guy, submissive, have plenty of time, aren't preoccupied with their job, fun.
Con's- have no money, you pay for most everything, paycheck to paycheck, not a lot of depth.

Level 2: (Nurse, Paralegal, Pharmaceutical Sales Rep, Dental Hygienist, Realtors)
Pro's- make good money, confidence, have good work/life balance, engaging, well rounded, has some sort of degree, thoughtful,
Con's- Very few. Are a little independent at times. These girls get lots of attention. Realtors are always a mess, don't recommend them.

Level 3: (VP, Director, Upper Management Types, Lawyers)
Pro's-make lots of money, will pay for nice trips, turn into your dirty wh0re when they unwind.
Con's- Always stressed out, have a hard time turning off work and male behaviors they have picked up at their job. Bossy, They always want you to lead, but they forget how to follow. They talk about their work all the time. They will walk all over you if you don't stay strong and ignore them every now and then. Lots of silly battles with them. They just don't fall in line. Sometimes they treat you like you are their employee. They all subscribe to "Girl Power" theories and promoting women to some extent. They all feel they have been mistreated by males in the workplace while trying to climb the ladder.

Level 2 has always been the sweet spot for me. They are by far the easiest to get along with and most fun.

My LTR GF is a Level 3. Getting her to shut off her work brain and be a solid submissive girlfriend is always a struggle. I'm very independent and don't require much but its still an issue. Her personality is that of a Level 2, but she is slowly killing herself trying to function in a Level 3 position. I end up picking up the slack with the chores around our place because she is traveling for work or doesn't have time.

There are two types of guys that will be able to date a level 3. Another career oriented, strong personality or a guy that falls in line.