Question for my brothers in the military past and present!

[RangerMIke]

Room, ten-HUT! You're supposed to stand up, as you know, like a Judge just entered the courtroom when an officer enters the room. I unfortunately took an rotc scholarship to go to college in the 90s without realizing that the job was all about kissing superior butt.

When I was a Captain, stationed in Germany, my first Bde commander there was a freaking warrior, we were always training and he was completely focused on getting his brigade ready for war. He didn't care about anything else, he used to laugh at officers that pressed their BDUs and had spit-shined boots suggesting that an officer doing that was wasting time, better spent, doing push-ups.

He was replaced by a pompous jack@ss that only cared about how things looked and was all about the ceremony. When we had an officer's meeting where everyone would come to attention when he walked in the room would say sh1t like "It's good to be the Emperor."

The first guy never was promoted past full colonel, the later guy made MG and commanded a division. I saw this time and time again, this is what happens in the Army during peace time (then in the mid 90s)... What we saw during 20 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan was that senior officers were promoted based on war fighting ability... and it was the political officers that failed. Now that we are a peacetime Army I fully expect we will return to stupidity. This is how it has ALWAYS been int he US Army, we have a peacetime Army, led by pompous idiots, and early on is war we get our @sses kicked... then these idiots are replaced by REAL generals and we start winning.

 

[eli77]

It's because most of the men getting married in the military are young and dumb. There's a huge difference between a 18-20 year old male straight out of HS vs a 25-30 year old male waiting to get married after college.

Agree

 

[eli77]

did it pay off though? I turned down a navy rotc scholarship to go to hot girl U.

Which one?

 

[eli77]

When I was a Captain, stationed in Germany, my first Bde commander there was a freaking warrior, we were always training and he was completely focused on getting his brigade ready for war. He didn't care about anything else, he used to laugh at officers that pressed their BDUs and had spit-shined boots suggesting that an officer doing that was wasting time, better spent, doing push-ups.

He was replaced by a pompous jack@ss that only cared about how things looked and was all about the ceremony. When we had an officer's meeting where everyone would come to attention when he walked in the room would say sh1t like "It's good to be the Emperor."

The first guy never was promoted past full colonel, the later guy made MG and commanded a division. I saw this time and time again, this is what happens in the Army during peace time (then in the mid 90s)... What we saw during 20 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan was that senior officers were promoted based on war fighting ability... and it was the political officers that failed. Now that we are a peacetime Army I fully expect we will return to stupidity. This is how it has ALWAYS been int he US Army, we have a peacetime Army, led by pompous idiots, and early on is war we get our @sses kicked... then these idiots are replaced by REAL generals and we start winning.

I was going to ask how do guys like those last and it seems like they don't how do you feel about that x-ray program heard it has a lot of pros and cons just wanted to know your opinion of it.

 

[Schwing]

Why is it pilots in the military always get the HOTTEST women? Is it partially because when they get out they will typically get a high paying airline job in addition to their 20 plus years of service pensions? Those guys make bank when they get out and become airline pilots or work for Fedex, UPS flying cargo.

 

[RangerMIke]

I was going to ask how do guys like those last and it seems like they don't how do you feel about that x-ray program heard it has a lot of pros and cons just wanted to know your opinion of it.

You're talking about the Q-Course.

This is special ops, Green Berets, that is a totally different thing. I never went through that, but had a lot of friends that did. I worked in special operations, but I wasn't an 18-X (where the term X-Ray comes from). Lots for confusion about what a US Army Green Beret is, mostly from John Wayne's laughable movie and other silly Hollywood productions. SF Teams are mostly used for the training of insurgent forces in other countries, where they stay as advisors. That career path for officers typically do not move past O-5, and chance to advance past O-6 is VERY limited, guys that do re-branch or end up working in functional areas. There just are not that many higher rank assignments in SF, those are joint commands, where Army officers have to also compete with AF and Navy officers.

Men don't join SF to make rank, so they tend not to be political, this really IMO has anything to do with the training, and everything to do with individual temperament they attracts men to SF.

 

[eli77]

You're talking about the Q-Course.

This is special ops, Green Berets, that is a totally different thing. I never went through that, but had a lot of friends that did. I worked in special operations, but I wasn't an 18-X (where the term X-Ray comes from). Lots for confusion about what a US Army Green Beret is, mostly from John Wayne's laughable movie and other silly Hollywood productions. SF Teams are mostly used for the training of insurgent forces in other countries, where they stay as advisors. That career path for officers typically do not move past O-5, and chance to advance past O-6 is VERY limited, guys that do re-branch or end up working in functional areas. There just are not that many higher rank assignments in SF, those are joint commands, where Army officers have to also compete with AF and Navy officers.

Men don't join SF to make rank, so they tend not to be political, this really IMO has anything to do with the training, and everything to do with individual temperament they attracts men to SF.

Thanks for the response but i was under the impression due to the war in iraq special forces was stressed in and instead of giving waivers for older guys 40 and over to go through navy SEAL bus training or special forces they came up with the x-ray program to feel a huge gap in special forces soldiers in the army was that not the intention?

 

[RangerMIke]

Thanks for the response but i was under the impression due to the war in iraq special forces was stressed in and instead of giving waivers for older guys 40 and over to go through navy SEAL bus training or special forces they came up with the x-ray program to feel a huge gap in special forces soldiers in the army was that not the intention?

No more than usual. The Q-course is hard, but not that physically demanding as Coronado (SEAL training). What the DoD has been doing since the Bush administration is outsourcing training of foreign armies to contractors. SF is primarily used for insurgent training, we are not doing a lot of that right now.

Navy SEALS have a different mission. They are more direct action, you send these guys in to kill people and blow things up, or if something underwater has to be done. AF Special Ops rescue downed pilots, help with securing airfields, and supporting aviation missions of Army SF or Navy SEAL operations. BTW there is no such thing as Delta Force... doesn't exist... it is simply the direct action arm of Army SF, they are used when more stealthy or less deadly things have to be done (snatch missions, guarding CIA operatives in covert missions, hostage rescue). Rangers are used when larger scale operations with more troops are needed (seizing Airfields, large scale recon, single point airborne missions, large raids deep behind enemy lines), you use Rangers when you are pretty sure you are going to need a company size element or larger special mission.

When the mission to get OBL went in, and they used Navy SEALS... it was fairly apparent to anyone that knew these sorts of things, that they had no intention of bringing him out alive. If they wanted to capture OBL, they would have used Army SF direct action forces with the CIA.

The Army SF does use special assigned personnel, that come from other branches for support. Having them go through some kind of Q-course probably isn't a bad idea... maybe that is what you are talking about.... but they don't need a full blown qualification course.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Why is it pilots in the military always get the HOTTEST women? Is it partially because when they get out they will typically get a high paying airline job in addition to their 20 plus years of service pensions? Those guys make bank when they get out and become airline pilots or work for Fedex, UPS flying cargo.

I know a pilot with a hot gf. Their life is basically set lol.

 

[eli77]

No more than usual. The Q-course is hard, but not that physically demanding as Coronado (SEAL training). What the DoD has been doing since the Bush administration is outsourcing training of foreign armies to contractors. SF is primarily used for insurgent training, we are not doing a lot of that right now.

Navy SEALS have a different mission. They are more direct action, you send these guys in to kill people and blow things up, or if something underwater has to be done. AF Special Ops rescue downed pilots, help with securing airfields, and supporting aviation missions of Army SF or Navy SEAL operations. BTW there is no such thing as Delta Force... doesn't exist... it is simply the direct action arm of Army SF, they are used when more stealthy or less deadly things have to be done (snatch missions, guarding CIA operatives in covert missions, hostage rescue). Rangers are used when larger scale operations with more troops are needed (seizing Airfields, large scale recon, single point airborne missions, large raids deep behind enemy lines), you use Rangers when you are pretty sure you are going to need a company size element or larger special mission.

When the mission to get OBL went in, and they used Navy SEALS... it was fairly apparent to anyone that knew these sorts of things, that they had no intention of bringing him out alive. If they wanted to capture OBL, they would have used Army SF direct action forces with the CIA.

The Army SF does use special assigned personnel, that come from other branches for support. Having them go through some kind of Q-course probably isn't a bad idea... maybe that is what you are talking about.... but they don't need a full blown qualification course.

In your opinion should they be given more waivers to guys who are 40 45 years old who want to become navy seals green beret army rangers or enlist to marine recons i think 40 is the new 20 when it comes to military training and a lot of endurance endeavors but that just my opinion wanted to know yours i believe snowden wanted to be a army ranger / green beret if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Schwing]

I know a pilot with a hot gf. Their life is basically set lol.

I do hear the pay for commercial pilots has stagnated for years though, that's one of their big complaints along with the long hours now. Seems Fedex, UPS is the way to go. Now there is a severe pilot shortage. Still, the pay is good though despite that.

 

[RangerMIke]

In your opinion should they be given more waivers to guys who are 40 45 years old who want to become navy seals green beret army rangers or enlist to marine recons i think 40 is the new 20 when it comes to military training and a lot of endurance endeavors but that just my opinion wanted to know yours i believe snowden wanted to be a army ranger / green beret if i'm not mistaken.

SEAL training takes a year, BUDS, Parachute, then Qualification. All that is really tough, when I was assigned to Joint Special Operations Command, I had to go through just the 3-week SEAL Orientation, this was when I was 35, and I barely made it though that even though I was in excellent shape, they lose more than half their candidates in orientation. There is almost no chance I would have made it through 7 week physical conditioning phase which followed. There is a reason the SEALS say 30 is the limit. I can not imagine anyone over 40 could do that. The reason is that your body takes longer to recover.

Army SF orientation and assessment is about the same length of time as Navy SEALs, but it is not as physically demanding but it's not easy either. It would be a challenge for anyone over 40 to complete this, I imagine the through put would be very low, as opposed to IMO impossible for SEAL orientation and assessment. After this it's 6 months of language and cultural training, you are assigned a language based on your DLAT score, it's doable, but not if you aren't the type that can study, then depending on your functional area, you additional training could be 3-4 months (weapons) to almost a year (medical). Officer and Warrant Officer training is 6 months (longer if the officers come from a non-combat arms branch)

Then they all go though a culmination exercise that lasts a month. Most make it though this without any trouble,

It would make sense for the Army to open recruitment for soldiers over 40 if they have an aptitude for difficult languages or medical training since these are the hardest to fill, but these people would have to be in VERY good physical shape to get through the early assessment phases.

 

[eli77]

SEAL training takes a year, BUDS, Parachute, then Qualification. All that is really tough, when I was assigned to Joint Special Operations Command, I had to go through just the 3-week SEAL Orientation, this was when I was 35, and I barely made it though that even though I was in excellent shape, they lose more than half their candidates in orientation. There is almost no chance I would have made it through 7 week physical conditioning phase which followed. There is a reason the SEALS say 30 is the limit. I can not imagine anyone over 40 could do that. The reason is that your body takes longer to recover.

Army SF orientation and assessment is about the same length of time as Navy SEALs, but it is not as physically demanding but it's not easy either. It would be a challenge for anyone over 40 to complete this, I imagine the through put would be very low, as opposed to IMO impossible for SEAL orientation and assessment. After this it's 6 months of language and cultural training, you are assigned a language based on your DLAT score, it's doable, but not if you aren't the type that can study, then depending on your functional area, you additional training could be 3-4 months (weapons) to almost a year (medical). Officer and Warrant Officer training is 6 months (longer if the officers come from a non-combat arms branch)

Then they all go though a culmination exercise that lasts a month. Most make it though this without any trouble,

It would make sense for the Army to open recruitment for soldiers over 40 if they have an aptitude for difficult languages or medical training since these are the hardest to fill, but these people would have to be in VERY good physical shape to get through the early assessment phases.

Had a high school teacher who's a Vietnam veteran green beret still alive who's at least 75 years old he managed to survive the whole agent orange chemical situation over over there in Vietnam. Also had at least two coworkers who were marine recons during the reagan administration. Most guys who i've talked to who are special forces say they are plenty of 40 year olds who would run laps around aspiring navy SEAL candidates in their twenties. If you had to do it again would you have change branches or stayed army?

 

[RangerMIke]

Most guys who i've talked to who are special forces say they are plenty of 40 year olds who would run laps around aspiring navy SEAL candidates in their twenties. If you had to do it again would you have change branches or stayed army?

Maybe, but when you start talking about physical limits in military service you have to ask if you would be willing to force men into special forces service. So ask yourself, would you be willing to force 40 year old men to go though Navy Seal training. If the answer is no, then you have your reasons for not doing this. We are not so desperate that we need mid-age men doing something that only a small percentage can get through. If it ever gets to that point where we become desperate, then you would have to ask if the training standards are too high.

If I were to have a life do over, would I do anything different? Well... at 55 with years of service in the Infantry that broke down my body... yeah I'd do things different. I know a lot of fellow officers that served in less physically demanding branches that are in much better physical condition now. Serving in the infantry or special forces really sucks. Seriously, I'm proud of my service but the cost physically and mentally was high.

 

[eli77]

Maybe, but when you start talking about physical limits in military service you have to ask if you would be willing to force men into special forces service. So ask yourself, would you be willing to force 40 year old men to go though Navy Seal training. If the answer is no, then you have your reasons for not doing this. We are not so desperate that we need mid-age men doing something that only a small percentage can get through. If it ever gets to that point where we become desperate, then you would have to ask if the training standards are too high.

If I were to have a life do over, would I do anything different? Well... at 55 with years of service in the Infantry that broke down my body... yeah I'd do things different. I know a lot of fellow officers that served in less physically demanding branches that are in much better physical condition now. Serving in the infantry or special forces really sucks. Seriously, I'm proud of my service but the cost physically and mentally was high.

Some for what i gather you did go to officer candidate school?

 

[RangerMIke]

Some for what i gather you did go to officer candidate school?

I was prior service enlisted, but not OCS. When I joined it was very similar to that movie "Stripes". I had just been dumped by my GF, l kicked out of my University's architecture program (I apparently had no artistic talent, which is true.). My car broke down in a strip mall that contained a Armed Forces Recruiting Center. The Army recruiter was the only one there... I told him I'll sign up for anything but they had to take me TODAY, because if I have to come back I likely won't. That's what he did, joined the Infantry, signed up for specialized communication training, Airborne, Ranger School. I had no freaking idea what I was signing up for... but I was taken right to the MEPS station, medical, testing, passed everything, and they shipped me off the next day. I have no idea what happened to my car or stuff that was in my dorm, or car... the first indication that anyone in my family knew what I did was the postcard I sent to my mom at basic training.

After training, I was sent to a LRSD company in the 5th ID and was a radio sat pack operator for my CO. After a year, my 1SG sergeant convinced me to sign-up for the Green to Gold program, which is a scholarship for active duty enlisted that have college credits. I took his advice and was commissioned through ROTC. I think the best officers graduated from service academies, or ROTC programs at traditional military schools (VMI, Citadel, Texas A&M), after that, OCS. I think what makes them good is that you get a really good view of what it's like being on the bottom of a military sub-culture. My experience as a Private definitely shaped the way I led. At a military school your first year you are treated sub-human. There is something about that experience that effects you in a positive way later. I think that is true with everything, anyone that has to struggle early has a lot more respect for your position later in life. The best business owners are the ones that built their business from the ground up: the worst are ones that inherited their business from their parents.... unless the parents FORCED their children to do the lowly dirty jobs when they were coming up.

 

[eli77]

I was prior service enlisted, but not OCS. When I joined it was very similar to that movie "Stripes". I had just been dumped by my GF, l kicked out of my University's architecture program (I apparently had no artistic talent, which is true.). My car broke down in a strip mall that contained a Armed Forces Recruiting Center. The Army recruiter was the only one there... I told him I'll sign up for anything but they had to take me TODAY, because if I have to come back I likely won't. That's what he did, joined the Infantry, signed up for specialized communication training, Airborne, Ranger School. I had no freaking idea what I was signing up for... but I was taken right to the MEPS station, medical, testing, passed everything, and they shipped me off the next day. I have no idea what happened to my car or stuff that was in my dorm, or car... the first indication that anyone in my family knew what I did was the postcard I sent to my mom at basic training.

After training, I was sent to a LRSD company in the 5th ID and was a radio sat pack operator for my CO. After a year, my 1SG sergeant convinced me to sign-up for the Green to Gold program, which is a scholarship for active duty enlisted that have college credits. I took his advice and was commissioned through ROTC. I think the best officers graduated from service academies, or ROTC programs at traditional military schools (VMI, Citadel, Texas A&M), after that, OCS. I think what makes them good is that you get a really good view of what it's like being on the bottom of a military sub-culture. My experience as a Private definitely shaped the way I led. At a military school your first year you are treated sub-human. There is something about that experience that effects you in a positive way later. I think that is true with everything, anyone that has to struggle early has a lot more respect for your position later in life. The best business owners are the ones that built their business from the ground up: the worst are ones that inherited their business from their parents.... unless the parents FORCED their children to do the lowly dirty jobs when they were coming up.

My story is a little different born in brooklyn raising south Florida class of 2001 high school in miami. Grew up by air force base a lot of air force reserves discovered the site around 2000-2001. Try to join the navy in 2009 could not get in due to weak eyesight try to join the army six months after same thing for me it was always navy marine reserves army national guard. I had no interest in joining the coast guard or air force. Had several classmates joined the military branches with different opinions opinions each about their experience. If i had to do it all over again. I would have dropped out and become an english instructor. Had the privilege of meeting chris pronto who's quite the character i think i told you that. What are your thoughts on private military contractors nowadays?

 

[RangerMIke]

What are your thoughts on private military contractors nowadays?

Most are/were good soldiers, the private contractors don't really hire dirt bags. My problem is with the companies themselves, in many ways they are over paid, with little quality oversite. I saw a lot of misuse in Iraq. They would get hired to do support functions and frequency fell short of what we needed. One example was we hired a contractor to train the new Iraqi army, they failed to do this properly and in the process lost accountably of $150 million. All the stories about pallet loads of cash being sent to Iraq... well it was contractors that mostly handed this out and there is no way to know exactly where this money went.

 

[eli77]

Most are/were good soldiers, the private contractors don't really hire dirt bags. My problem is with the companies themselves, in many ways they are over paid, with little quality oversite. I saw a lot of misuse in Iraq. They would get hired to do support functions and frequency fell short of what we needed. One example was we hired a contractor to train the new Iraqi army, they failed to do this properly and in the process lost accountably of $150 million. All the stories about pallet loads of cash being sent to Iraq... well it was contractors that mostly handed this out and there is no way to know exactly where this money went.

I believe there been some females since you've been in that gone to army ranger training any thoughts on that?

 

[RangerMIke]

I believe there been some females since you've been in that gone to army ranger training any thoughts on that?

Doesn't bother me at all. I know quite a few Rangers that are ticked off about that because the standards were lowered. And they were lowered no matter what you hear, the question is, do the old standards REALLY matter, when it comes to training. IMO no.

The first phase, as it was when I went through, would have been almost impossible for even women in excellent shape could get though, there was a LOT of upper body strength needed that because of biology, women just don't have. Hand to hand combat training would have been rough on a woman if they were paired against a man. The obstacle course would have been horrible for women. When I went through I was in the best shape of my life, and three of those obstacles I barely completed. If you don't have very good upper body strength it would be impossible. It is possible that Amazon fitness freak women could do it, but from what I was told, they no longer make the completion of the obstacle course a requirement, you just have to make it over most of them, and it's no longer timed. The forced march is no longer with 120 lbs of equipment.

Once you get past the first phase it was pretty much just putting up with little sleep and little food, women can do that. Lower the basic load you have to carry, and they can get through the later phases as long as you don't get hurt and don't quit. It used to be 4 phases, now it is shorter with only 3 phases. The women that make it though that achieved something exceptional, the men that graduate now... well it's really not that special anymore, but whose to say the old standards were needed? It all depends on the purpose of Ranger School... it used to be a requirement to serve as a NCO or Officer in a Ranger Battalion, you really can't say that anymore, now it's a leadership school I suppose, and that's fine.

It's the getting hurt part that that washes out most women. Again, it's biology. I think women have just as much mental toughness to get through, but the female body is just not designed to put up with the physical abuse. Don't blame me, blame evolution.