Anyone here from Russia?

[Kotaix]

Are you saying Russia did not invade Ukraine?

This is just like you, to gaslight and straw man anyone who disagrees with you.

What does the housing crises have to do with Russia invading Ukraine?

The invasion of ukraine has nothing to do with the housing crisis other than being something that the corporate media can use to propagandize lemmings into looking at the war instead of the massive disaster this administration has at home. Next thing you know they'll approve another trillion dollars in debt and destroy our savings with more inflation.

Next you'll be telling us that gas prices are high because of the war instead of because the idiots in power destroyed our energy independence.

 

[EyeBRollin]

This is just like you, to gaslight and straw man anyone who disagrees with you.

The invasion of ukraine has nothing to do with the housing crisis

Stay on topic. Putin invaded Ukraine yet you deflect to blaming the US media. Stop defending Russia.

 

[Von]

It's like Putin's Cuban Missle Crisis.

Cuban Missile crisis was a réaction by the Soviet due To the USA ballistic missiles in Turkey.

Since 2008,USA ballistic missiles "the missiles shield" are parked in Poland with targert Kremlin. Add that every nato nation has USA troops... The Russian are being cornered and poked. Thus the réaction.

Would should thèse countries have better options than Nato for sure. Are they angry for being "ex-soviet" definitely.

Putin being leader for 20 years, it's not good for the country due To corruption. What Will happen after his time?

 

[Who Dares Win]

Your both sidesism is pretty clear. And you made a point to compare Stalin and Hitler, two names most reasonable people never bring up in dialogue.

You have an amazing imagination when it comes of creating your own reality too bad you didnt show as much as critical thinking till last week when you have been eating any trash the media tried to feed us.

Oh btw how comes we had german cops measuring the distance between walking citizens last week due to " mandatory distancing" but no control at all only 2 days ago when 100k people protested against putin in Berlin, did the media provided a good explanation for such change or the virus agreed to pause his contagion to help ukraine?

Please let me know, I don't watch much tv.

 

[corrector]

You have an amazing imagination when it comes of creating your own reality too bad you didnt show as much as critical thinking till last week when you have been eating any trash the media tried to feed us.

Oh btw how comes we had german cops measuring the distance between walking citizens last week due to " mandatory distancing" but no control at all only 2 days ago when 100k people protested against putin in Berlin, did the media provided a good explanation for such change or the virus agreed to pause his contagion to help ukraine?

Please let me know, I don't watch much tv.

Its because it was for a good cause.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I don't recall @zekko saying it did; you are starting an argument out of something nobody on this thread said. Explaining something is not tantamount to justifying it.

Disagree. Explaining is justifying. Putin fvcked up when he invaded a sovereign country. This is really cut and dry.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Its because it was for a good cause.

Ok so the deadly virus didnt stop to be deadly, it's just that now running the risk of death it's fine cause the protests are for a good reason?

 

[lgbs2004]

Putin should have just gone No Contact. He could be influencing some vassal state that's into him.

It's over fo WarHungryCels

 

[EyeBRollin]

No, it is not. If you explain to me the rationales Nazi Germany used for invading the rest of Europe, this does not mean you are saying what they did is right. History teachers explain causes for war and injustice to students every day, and students then do the same on exams, without succumbing to fascism.

This is not classroom context. Trying to make us feel sorry for Russia is a justification for their invasion.

 

[logicallefty]

Average people like us don't know for certain what's actually going on yet. We all get our news from the sources we trust and process it and believe it how we think is best. But I've seen some sources I normally follow on world events saying that there is more to the story than what 95% of the average people really know. They are saying that Putin isn't invading the government or country of Ukraine itself, but rather, going after specific targets of interest within the country. Key term "DS".

 

[PRW63]

Putin is on a mass propaganda campaign

So is Ukraine. This all comes directly from the lips of a civilian man in Kiev watching it happen first hand with his own eyes. The Ukraine "Pres" is giving untrained citizens AK-74's, which they will go out and get themselves killed with so that the pictures of their dead bodies can be used for propaganda of "Russian Atrocities". He is also placing artillery in civilian areas like apartment complexes (maybe schools) so that when the Russian take them out they will take out the buildings around them,...then the pictures can be used as propaganda of "Russian Atrocities",...so using citizens as Human Shields. Then they are taking all men age 18-60yo and forcing them into the military against their will,...going as far as stopping city busses, going into them and pulling the men off the bus by force and putting them in the military.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Average people like us don't know for certain what's actually going on yet. We all get our news from the sources we trust and process it and believe it how we think is best. But I've seen some sources I normally follow on world events saying that there is more to the story than what 95% of the average people really know. They are saying that Putin isn't invading the government or country of Ukraine itself, but rather, going after specific targets of interest within the country. Key term "DS".

Agree on that, we all have limited manipulated details about this situation.

I dont wanna sound a cospirationist (altought they got most things right recently) yet I find the timing of this invasion very suspicious.

After 8 years of nothing despite provocations from both sides, Putin decides to invade Ukraine exactly when the covid narrative was getting rejected from the people and inflation reached a point that demanded radical countermeasures to be dealt with.

Now all this extreme measures from the west on russian population seem like done on purpose to radicalize russian citizens against the west and to support their own government which would have not happen in case of lighter sanctions possibly directed only toward wealthy individuals.

There are simply too many things that dont come right here.

 

[PRW63]

It's like Putin's Cuban Missle Crisis.

Exactly. NATO wants Unkraine so that they can place medium ranged missles there,...pointed at Russia. This violates the doctrine/deterant of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). When they are far away (like the US and Russia) the flight time is long enough that the other side has time to return fire,...both sides will die (MAD), so it is a stalemate and nobody fires. But if the missiles are in Ukraine the flight time is less than 5 minutes which is not enough time for Russia to respond,...so it is a death sentence for a nation of millions of people. The missiles won't kill just Putin "personally & individually", they will kill everyone. So Putin had absolutely no choice but to invade Unkraine to stop NATO from moving in,...just like Kennedy in the USA had to stop the Soviet Union when they tried to put missiles in Cuba for the same purpose.

 

[PRW63]

Average people like us don't know for certain what's actually going on yet. We all get our news from the sources we trust and process it and believe it how we think is best. But I've seen some sources I normally follow on world events saying that there is more to the story than what 95% of the average people really know. They are saying that Putin isn't invading the government or country of Ukraine itself, but rather, going after specific targets of interest within the country. Key term "DS".

Yes. They are being surgical about it as much as they can be. That is why the Russians back away when the resistance is heavy. They back away, and then surround. They want to "capture" Ukraine not destroy it. They also want to "capture" the Ukraine military, not destroy them, because they will need them to defend their own country after the corrupt government is deposed by the Russians. That is why they aren't leveling buildings, the electricity is still on, the water system is still clean and functioning, the internet is still working, and any other public facilities and services are still working.

The Ukrain citizens are fairly safe from the Russians as long as they keep their distance. They are more endangered by their own government trying to take all men 18-60yo "into custody" (even stopping city busses and pulling them off the buss) and forcing them into the military,...where they then can be a target of the Russians.

 

[logicallefty]

The Ukrain citizens are fairly safe from the Russians as long as they keep their distance. They are more endangered by their own government trying to take all men 18-60yo "into custody" (even stopping city busses and pulling them off the buss) and forcing them into the military,...where they then can be a target of the Russians.

Yes, exactly. Lets try and kill off as many of the healthy people as we can. Sounds familiar to me, dejavu, from another recent current event. Key term "NWO".

 

[EyeBRollin]

Yes. They are being surgical about it as much as they can be. That is why the Russians back away when the resistance is heavy. They back away, and then surround. They want to "capture" Ukraine not destroy it. They also want to "capture" the Ukraine military, not destroy them, because they will need them to defend their own country after the corrupt government is deposed by the Russians. That is why they aren't leveling buildings, the electricity is still on, the water system is still clean and functioning, the internet is still working, and any other public facilities and services are still working.

The Ukrain citizens are fairly safe from the Russians as long as they keep their distance. They are more endangered by their own government trying to take all men 18-60yo "into custody" (even stopping city busses and pulling them off the buss) and forcing them into the military,...where they then can be a target of the Russians.

Correct me if I am wrong but this reads as Ukraine citizens should just accept a Russian takeover and Occupation.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Nothing in zekko's post said anyone should feel sorry for anybody. Your inferences are your own. You have a habit of inferring and starting straw man arguments with people who are having a civil discussion. Otherwise this thread is going really well.

It seems to me that people are trying to have a nuanced conversation about naked 21st century imperialism.

 

[PRW63]

Correct me if I am wrong but this reads as Ukraine citizens should just accept a Russian takeover and Occupation.

They are already oppressed and occupied by their own government. They are going to be oppressed and occupied no matter which way they go. Pick one. All Putin is going to do is push out the existing corrupt government and replace it with a different corrupt government that is just less pro-NATO and less anti-Russian. Then the Russians will leave and put the Ukraine military back in their place under the new government. Not much different than the US with Iraq but hopefully much less messy. There is no win-win. A win-win doesn't exist for them. There is no "win" in Socialist Regimes and Socialist Regimes is all that part of the world offers anyone. So pick one that will turn on you and kill you less often.

 

[EyeBRollin]

They are already oppressed and occupied by their own government. They are going to be oppressed and occupied no matter which way they go. Pick one. All Putin is going to do is push out the existing corrupt government and replace it with a different corrupt government that is just less pro-NATO and less anti-Russian. Then the Russians will leave and put the Ukraine military back in their place under the new government. Not much different than the US with Iraq but hopefully much less messy. There is no win-win. A win-win doesn't exist for them. There is no "win" in Socialist Regimes and Socialist Regimes is all that part of the world offers anyone. So pick one that will turn on you and kill you less often.

Just wanted to make clear you are advocating civilians to just surrender to an occupying army from an invading country.

 

[corrector]

Ok so the deadly virus didnt stop to be deadly, it's just that now running the risk of death it's fine cause the protests are for a good reason?

Exactly. When you are a man of conviction then you do not worry about dying. You stand up for what is right.