Common Situation I'm in that I Always Screw Up. Let's Remedy That!

[nicksaiz65]

Hey guys! Here's yet another thread from me. I'll probably be posting a lot of these in the future. In this new year, I am determined to get my sh*t together, have that reference experience, and effortlessly know how to handle anything that life throws at me in terms of Game.

So yet again, I find myself in this situation. I am in a social circle(mutual friends) with a girl that I find very attractive. Nice face, cool personality, huge t!tties. We've had some general friendly conversation, but that's about it. I'm not even sure if she likes me or not. Or is sufficiently attracted to me/willing to have sex. We've only talked a bit, and once again, only general friendly conversation. I haven't really been able to overtly show much sexual intent because y'know, it's more of a social circle type thing. I can't just straight up do a Direct Approach. I was able to get the girl's number, and then invite her out to one of my music gigs on New Year's Eve. She said sure, that sounds like fun.

I just don't know how to proceed in this situation, or do the situation at all. Basically, I need a guide from A to Z. This is all I've done with this woman and idk how to correctly move it forward. All I know is that I want to take her back to my house, bend her over and shag her.

From what I can tell, I'm supposed to either directly invite her out with me one on one, or just invite her out to a big group gathering and later isolate/make a move on her from there. But like how do I show intent? Would that be jarring? I'm still a bit unsure on the specifics.

I've failed again and again in this specific type of situation in the past. Some of the girls I've even had over to my house, albeit in a group party type of setting. I've asked some of them out overtly with stuff like "I liked hearing your singing voice. We should jam out together again, when are you free?" Or "When are you free? Let's hit the bar and grab some Modelos together since we drank all of the ones at my place."

Every single time, without fail, I was left on read. It hurt pretty bad tbh. This situation keeps coming up over and over, so it's time to remedy this.

I was basically wondering if any of the members here have been in a similar situation, and wanted to ask if you could walk me through how to handle it, A to Z for Dummies. I don't want to feel that pain anymore. So, what do I do in these situations?

Thanks a ton guys, and Happy Holidays to you all!

 

[SW15]

You must remember all of the your recent successes with getting the bang.

Show intent by asking her to your place for a drink like a Modelo or some hard liquor drink.

 

[nicksaiz65]

You must remember all of the your recent successes with getting the bang.

Show intent by asking her to your place for a drink like a Modelo or some hard liquor drink.

Yes, definitely. I’ve started keeping a game journal and it really helps seeing my weak spots, and plus remembering my past successes.

Roosh says to do that as well.

So I’m just friendly in the social circle, socialize as normal, show intent through my eye contact, and then ask her out for a drink?

And assume that the girls I failed with before simply weren’t interested, yes?

 

[SW15]

So I’m just friendly in the social circle, socialize as normal, show intent through my eye contact, and then ask her out for a drink?

Yes.

And assume that the girls I failed with before simply weren’t interested, yes?

Yes. Many times, it has nothing to do with you. I know that's shocking. Realize that most people are in some sort of relationship at any given time and not looking for something new. You can get a woman in a relationship to monkey branch if you are seductive enough, but that's a more advanced skill set.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Yes.



Yes. Many times, it has nothing to do with you. I know that's shocking. Realize that most people are in some sort of relationship at any given time and not looking for something new. You can get a woman in a relationship to monkey branch if you are seductive enough, but that's a more advanced skill set.

Yeah, like Roosh says, she has to be sufficiently sexually attracted and available.

Speaking of Roosh, he has a section on this in his book "Game." He says that you just show high value within the social circle, and hit her with little flashes of game. By flashes of game, I assume he means showing intent. And then you can either ask her straight out, or make a move at the end of a social gathering if you suspect that she likes you. In this case, it can actually be somewhat helpful to get a Choosing Signal.

I just didn't understand some of the specifics so I was hoping you could explain it to me in different words. Like I was a bit worried that she'd be a bit caught off guard when I escalated. But I'll need to make sure I have reference experience on this too so that my game strategy is full and complete.

 

[Scars]

I think you missed your window of opportunity and have already been friendzoned.

Try to work on being more overtly sexual with woman but NOT this one. It's too late for that now, so give up that thought.

Sexual innuendos that are funny often work best. Forget Twitter cancel culture for just a minute and be your true manly self, and be unapologetic about it. Watch successful guys and take notes. I bet they're making sexual jokes, or borderline sexual jokes. They shrug off rejection and keep it moving.

Nowadays you have to move things quickly to a sexual frame or you will get friendzoned fast. If you don't do it, some other guy will come in right behind you and will. You need to make your intention known from the very beginning even if it means experiencing a rejection.

The best approach is to feel the woman out and take baby steps. Making jokes and see how she reacts. Try touching her playfully on the arm, hips, etc.. hug her for longer than expected periods. Frame the conversation and use any excuse you can to touch her. Make a joke and pat her on the head like she's a dog or your little sister. Pretend or lightly punch her when she makes a joke at you. Come up from behind and mess up her hair and then run away. This is literally elementary/high school flirting, but it works. Compare hand sizes. Hold her hand. Put your arm around her. Make your intention KNOWN!

Pro tip: Once you've made out/had sex, the best kino you can possibly do after that is to smack her ass randomly. I don't know what it is, but girls LOVE this sh!t.

- Scars

 

[nicksaiz65]

I think you missed your window of opportunity and have already been friendzoned.

Try to work on being more overtly sexual with woman but NOT this one. It's too late for that now, so give up that thought.

Sexual innuendos that are funny often work best. Forget Twitter cancel culture for just a minute and be your true manly self, and be unapologetic about it. Watch successful guys and take notes. I bet they're making sexual jokes, or borderline sexual jokes. They shrug off rejection and keep it moving.

Nowadays you have to move things quickly to a sexual frame or you will get friendzoned fast. If you don't do it, some other guy will come in right behind you and will. You need to make your intention known from the very beginning even if it means experiencing a rejection.

The best approach is to feel the woman out and take baby steps. Making jokes and see how she reacts. Try touching her playfully on the arm, hips, etc.. hug her for longer than expected periods. Frame the conversation and use any excuse you can to touch her. Make a joke and pat her on the head like she's a dog or your little sister. Pretend or lightly punch her when she makes a joke at you. Come up from behind and mess up her hair and then run away. This is literally elementary/high school flirting, but it works. Compare hand sizes. Hold her hand. Put your arm around her. Make your intention KNOWN!

Pro tip: Once you've made out/had sex, the best kino you can possibly do after that is to smack her ass randomly. I don't know what it is, but girls LOVE this sh!t.

- Scars

This is great advice. It's really funny that you mention that though, because my "natural" friends who do really well with women are definitely making sexual jokes with women. I see it literally all the time.

You just gave me an idea about the metagame, actually. Is it ok for me to ask my "natural" friends for help for what they do in common situations like this? I used to do that all the time, even before I got into the game. I'm thinking that I could then tweak the strategy to work for me. They do have most of what I want after all, so I'm thinking that I could ask them how they got it.

Or is that, pardon the bad analogy, like a non-enhanced lifter taking advice from a steroid user?

Just thought of that, and I'm thinking it could help out my meta-game a bit.

 

[Scars]

This is great advice. It's really funny that you mention that though, because my "natural" friends who do really well with women are definitely making sexual jokes with women. I see it literally all the time.

You just gave me an idea about the metagame, actually. Is it ok for me to ask my "natural" friends for help for what they do in common situations like this? I used to do that all the time, even before I got into the game. I'm thinking that I could then tweak the strategy to work for me. They do have most of what I want after all, so I'm thinking that I could ask them how they got it.

Or is that, pardon the bad analogy, like a non-enhanced lifter taking advice from a steroid user?

Just thought of that, and I'm thinking it could help out my meta-game a bit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking friends for advice. Just make sure you trust them, and there is a mutual understanding that you both won't try bagging the same chick. This is sometimes where things can get hairy.

I've had several PUA/Natural Alpha friends in the past, and the only ones I am still friends with now are those who learned the unspoken rule:

- Never fvck around with a girl your buddy has crushed on, dated, or is currently pursuing.

Sometimes alphas/chads don't give a fvck and will see you like a girl and then swoop it up right in front of you. You don't need these types of people as friends. If anything, keep them close so you can gather the social benefit and learn how to flirt and deal with women, but keep your approaches on the side and away from them. You should start to build your own social circle, one of people that you can truly trust.

 

[SW15]

Speaking of Roosh, he has a section on this in his book "Game." He says that you just show high value within the social circle, and hit her with little flashes of game. By flashes of game, I assume he means showing intent. And then you can either ask her straight out, or make a move at the end of a social gathering if you suspect that she likes you. In this case, it can actually be somewhat helpful to get a Choosing Signal.

It seems like you understand it well. You always need to be to escalating. Showing intent is a form of escalation. If there's someone in a social circle that you want, ask her out immediately as soon as you realize you want her.

- Never fvck around with a girl your buddy has crushed on, dated, or is currently pursuing.

There were some epic wars for pusssy within my social circle with some women. These incidents happened mainly in the early to mid-2010s. These were not the only incidents but they were the ones that stand out the most.

Woman A: She was a friend of my closest friend's girlfriend (now wife). Multiple men from our social circle tried to have sex with her and went to big lengths to do so. One guy in the social circle when drunk got in her bed and refused to leave it. She ended up sleeping elsewhere and not having sex with him. I was a little subtler in my moves on her but didn't see a lot of interest. Woman A ended up having sex with no men from our social circle, moving away from the city, ceasing her friendship with my closest friend's girlfriend (now wife), and getting married to some other guy in the city where she moved many years later. She didn't get married until her early 30s. Woman A was a height queen as well. Despite being 5'1", she refused all men under 6'0" in this city.

Woman B: In 2013, Woman B went out on 3 dates with one of my friends from his efforts on Match. No sex, only a make out. A fade out happens after date 3. A few months later, this friend moves to a new apartment building. He's walking away from the management office after turning in paperwork related to the move in condition of the apartment when he sees this woman in the building. Since he has already planned a move in party, he approaches her and tells her about the move in party he has planned in a few days. She comes to this party. At this party, no less than 5 men from my main social circle try to hit on her because she has big tits. The friend who had the Match dates with her was expecting to close the deal with her at the party but didn't. He was not happy about that. I didn't get with her. She was very cold and distant in the approach. Dull personality. She ended up getting with one of my other friends (not the guy who had Match dates with her) a few months after this party. They are still together 8 years later.

Woman C: Woman C was a co-worker of my closest friend for many years. Both Woman C and my closest friend have now left that company, which is a large company. Anyway, I saw Woman C on my friend's Facebook as far back as late 2011. I had interest in her as soon as I saw her because she is thin. I told myself that if I ever saw her in-person, I would approach her and run serious game on her. Over a year later, there was a party that she attended. I came at her strongly and with massive intent. She rebuffed my intent, showing no interest. At this party, 3 men from the social circle hit on her. She ended up getting with 1 of them, slightly in part to my closest friend endorsing some other guy in the circle. I was flabbergasted my closest friend would put in a good word for this other guy over me when both of us were single and looking at the time. My closest friend didn't know that I crushed on her from seeing her on his Facebook. Years later, I find out that Woman C tends to be more prudish and likely would have been put off by my quick attempts to escalate and get the bang. The other guy from the social circle who got with Woman C ended up putting a ring on her.

 

[Scars]

It seems like you understand it well. You always need to be to escalating. Showing intent is a form of escalation. If there's someone in a social circle that you want, ask her out immediately as soon as you realize you want her.



There were some epic wars for pusssy within my social circle with some women. These incidents happened mainly in the early to mid-2010s. These were not the only incidents but they were the ones that stand out the most.

Woman A: She was a friend of my closest friend's girlfriend (now wife). Multiple men from our social circle tried to have sex with her and went to big lengths to do so. One guy in the social circle when drunk got in her bed and refused to leave it. She ended up sleeping elsewhere and not having sex with him. I was a little subtler in my moves on her but didn't see a lot of interest. Woman A ended up having sex with no men from our social circle, moving away from the city, ceasing her friendship with my closest friend's girlfriend (now wife), and getting married to some other guy in the city where she moved many years later. She didn't get married until her early 30s. Woman A was a height queen as well. Despite being 5'1", she refused all men under 6'0" in this city.

Woman B: In 2013, Woman B went out on 3 dates with one of my friends from his efforts on Match. No sex, only a make out. A fade out happens after date 3. A few months later, this friend moves to a new apartment building. He's walking away from the management office after turning in paperwork related to the move in condition of the apartment when he sees this woman in the building. Since he has already planned a move in party, he approaches her and tells her about the move in party he has planned in a few days. She comes to this party. At this party, no less than 5 men from my main social circle try to hit on her because she has big tits. The friend who had the Match dates with her was expecting to close the deal with her at the party but didn't. He was not happy about that. I didn't get with her. She was very cold and distant in the approach. Dull personality. She ended up getting with one of my other friends (not the guy who had Match dates with her) a few months after this party. They are still together 8 years later.

Woman C: Woman C was a co-worker of my closest friend for many years. Both Woman C and my closest friend have now left that company, which is a large company. Anyway, I saw Woman C on my friend's Facebook as far back as late 2011. I had interest in her as soon as I saw her because she is thin. I told myself that if I ever saw her in-person, I would approach her and run serious game on her. Over a year later, there was a party that she attended. I came at her strongly and with massive intent. She rebuffed my intent, showing no interest. At this party, 3 men from the social circle hit on her. She ended up getting with 1 of them, slightly in part to my closest friend endorsing some other guy in the circle. I was flabbergasted my closest friend would put in a good word for this other guy over me when both of us were single and looking at the time. My closest friend didn't know that I crushed on her from seeing her on his Facebook. Years later, I find out that Woman C tends to be more prudish and likely would have been put off by my quick attempts to escalate and get the bang. The other guy from the social circle who got with Woman C ended up putting a ring on her.

I think you're confusing my philosophy. That's ok though, I can explain further.

In your examples, you shut down approaching/escalation just because your friend approached her first.

In scenarios like this, we would basically have a "may the best man win" agreement. It wasn't anything out of spite or revenge. Rather we would both approach her, see who she was vibing with more, and then either backed off or turned into a wingman.

All the guys I ran with in my circle were dudes who "just got it", I guess you can say. If a girl wasn't feeling them, they would back off and start hyping me up, and vice versa. This is what a good wing man does.

 

[bat soup]

Hey guys! Here's yet another thread from me. I'll probably be posting a lot of these in the future. In this new year, I am determined to get my sh*t together, have that reference experience, and effortlessly know how to handle anything that life throws at me in terms of Game.

So yet again, I find myself in this situation. I am in a social circle(mutual friends) with a girl that I find very attractive. Nice face, cool personality, huge t!tties. We've had some general friendly conversation, but that's about it. I'm not even sure if she likes me or not. Or is sufficiently attracted to me/willing to have sex. We've only talked a bit, and once again, only general friendly conversation. I haven't really been able to overtly show much sexual intent because y'know, it's more of a social circle type thing. I can't just straight up do a Direct Approach. I was able to get the girl's number, and then invite her out to one of my music gigs on New Year's Eve. She said sure, that sounds like fun.

I just don't know how to proceed in this situation, or do the situation at all. Basically, I need a guide from A to Z. This is all I've done with this woman and idk how to correctly move it forward. All I know is that I want to take her back to my house, bend her over and shag her.

From what I can tell, I'm supposed to either directly invite her out with me one on one, or just invite her out to a big group gathering and later isolate/make a move on her from there. But like how do I show intent? Would that be jarring? I'm still a bit unsure on the specifics.

I've failed again and again in this specific type of situation in the past. Some of the girls I've even had over to my house, albeit in a group party type of setting. I've asked some of them out overtly with stuff like "I liked hearing your singing voice. We should jam out together again, when are you free?" Or "When are you free? Let's hit the bar and grab some Modelos together since we drank all of the ones at my place."

Every single time, without fail, I was left on read. It hurt pretty bad tbh. This situation keeps coming up over and over, so it's time to remedy this.

I was basically wondering if any of the members here have been in a similar situation, and wanted to ask if you could walk me through how to handle it, A to Z for Dummies. I don't want to feel that pain anymore. So, what do I do in these situations?

Thanks a ton guys, and Happy Holidays to you all!

The vast majority of women are cowards. If you put them in an awkward situation and provide an easy way out (e.g. ignoring your message) then they'll take it 99% of the time.

 

[SW15]

In your examples, you shut down approaching/escalation just because your friend approached her first.

I think when the word "you" is used, it means a person and not you referring to me, @SW15. In the examples I gave, all of us men in the social circle were in an all out war for vagina.

In scenarios like this, we would basically have a "may the best man win" agreement. It wasn't anything out of spite or revenge. Rather we would both approach her, see who she was vibing with more, and then either backed off or turned into a wingman.

All the guys I ran with in my circle were dudes who "just got it", I guess you can say. If a girl wasn't feeling them, they would back off and start hyping me up, and vice versa. This is what a good wing man does.

No one was winging for the other person. We were doing what we were doing in self-interest. I can say that my scarcity mentality was too strong in these instances and that was likely true for the other men in my social circle who I was competing against.

Having a full date lined up with some chick you've been talking with on Tinder for 2 weeks is a lot different than some random hood-rat at a bar. It's all fair game.

True. Swipe apps and bars are two of the worst venues for relationships that are more than solely casual sex.

I would say this is more of a younger twenties/bar life thing. Once you get into your thirties, things start to change. This is definitely not my lifestyle now. But when you're younger living the college life, make sure you have a good wingman.

Those social circle wars for vagina occurred when I was in my late 20s and early 30s. I was the first in the group to turn 30 so the other guys were still in their 20s.

I've never had a good wingman, which is why in my late 20s, I became more focused on non-bar approaching where having a wing isn't as necessary. I've even done bar approaching without a wing, but it is easier to do non-bar approaching without a wing because women tend to be more isolated at non-bar venues. You are less likely to get a cocckblocking friend at a grocery store, walking path, or park.

 

[Scars]

I think when the word "you" is used, it means a person and not you referring to me, @SW15. In the examples I gave, all of us men in the social circle were in an all out war for vagina.



No one was winging for the other person. We were doing what we were doing in self-interest. I can say that my scarcity mentality was too strong in these instances and that was likely true for the other men in my social circle who I was competing against.



True. Swipe apps and bars are two of the worst venues for relationships that are more than solely casual sex.



Those social circle wars for vagina occurred when I was in my late 20s and early 30s. I was the first in the group to turn 30 so the other guys were still in their 20s.

I've never had a good wingman, which is why in my late 20s, I became more focused on non-bar approaching where having a wing isn't as necessary. I've even done bar approaching without a wing, but it is easier to do non-bar approaching without a wing because women tend to be more isolated at non-bar venues. You are less likely to get a cocckblocking friend at a grocery store, walking path, or park.

Agreed. It's very hard to do any bar/club approaching without a wing man. Most girls don't go to bars alone, so you need someone to distract the pact leader, which is often times the heavy-set feminist. LOL

 

[nicksaiz65]

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking friends for advice. Just make sure you trust them, and there is a mutual understanding that you both won't try bagging the same chick. This is sometimes where things can get hairy.

I've had several PUA/Natural Alpha friends in the past, and the only ones I am still friends with now are those who learned the unspoken rule:

- Never fvck around with a girl your buddy has crushed on, dated, or is currently pursuing.

Sometimes alphas/chads don't give a fvck and will see you like a girl and then swoop it up right in front of you. You don't need these types of people as friends. If anything, keep them close so you can gather the social benefit and learn how to flirt and deal with women, but keep your approaches on the side and away from them. You should start to build your own social circle, one of people that you can truly trust.

Yeah, for sure. Those are the golden rules of being a good wing. You could even say those are rules for being a good friend in general. I didn’t realize that people were breaking the rules like that, I’ve always had very positive experiences with wings.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I think you missed your window of opportunity and have already been friendzoned.

Try to work on being more overtly sexual with woman but NOT this one. It's too late for that now, so give up that thought.

Sexual innuendos that are funny often work best. Forget Twitter cancel culture for just a minute and be your true manly self, and be unapologetic about it. Watch successful guys and take notes. I bet they're making sexual jokes, or borderline sexual jokes. They shrug off rejection and keep it moving.

Nowadays you have to move things quickly to a sexual frame or you will get friendzoned fast. If you don't do it, some other guy will come in right behind you and will. You need to make your intention known from the very beginning even if it means experiencing a rejection.

The best approach is to feel the woman out and take baby steps. Making jokes and see how she reacts. Try touching her playfully on the arm, hips, etc.. hug her for longer than expected periods. Frame the conversation and use any excuse you can to touch her. Make a joke and pat her on the head like she's a dog or your little sister. Pretend or lightly punch her when she makes a joke at you. Come up from behind and mess up her hair and then run away. This is literally elementary/high school flirting, but it works. Compare hand sizes. Hold her hand. Put your arm around her. Make your intention KNOWN!

Pro tip: Once you've made out/had sex, the best kino you can possibly do after that is to smack her ass randomly. I don't know what it is, but girls LOVE this sh!t.

- Scars

Now that I slept on it and I'm ruminating on it a bit, I think you're absolutely correct. I am letting myself fall into the friendzone in these social circle type situations. I didn't even realize that I was.

What has happened to me literally multiple times is this: I'll be in a social circle with a woman that I find quite attractive. I'll end up hanging out with her in a group setting. I want to make a move on her later on. So I'll text her. I usually text for logistics so that I can't fvck myself over with the text messages. But this time, I'll send a message with some intent.

Some Examples of Messages that I've Sent to Try to Get the Date:
"Had fun hanging out with you at the house the other day. You're cute, we should go out and drink some Modelo again."
(After hanging out at a karaoke bar in a group) "You have a really nice singing voice. I want to hear it again. We should jam and hang out, when are you free?"
(Reacting to her Snapchat story. She works at a bar, so she's always posting up. I had played pool with this girl at the bar before) "Damn, you look cute in that pic." *A little conversation back and forth* "We should play pool again sometime, when are you free?"
"Damn, you look sexy af with the new hair."

Every. Single. Time. WITHOUT FAIL, I get left on read.

It's a little bit hard to tell if I'm getting rejected and left on read because my SMV is too low relative to these girls, if it's the way I'm acting, or if I'm getting rejected because I have a failing game strategy. I imagine it's a combination of all of these.

In the past, I've had girls who have been receptive to me a bit more, and I was able to ask them out and subsequently take them on coffee dates. But then I screwed it up because I wasn't aware of Game and failed to escalate on the date, super platonic. Then I got friend-zoned that way

I've talked to some advanced natural guys, and they were talking about some "I'm honestly just hanging out with the girl platonically, and I didn't even make a move until like 2-3 dates in. Then the girl was literally like I want you to f me right now."

But I would bet you all the money in my pocket right now that their sub-communications and flirtation are extremely strong, due to them being a natural and just having had sex for so long. They don't even notice it or think about it, I'll bet.

I'm pretty invested in learning this Game strategy because I was in a very painful situation involving this recently. Several friends in my social circle were able to fvck a girl that I wanted, and yet I wasn't able to do shyt lol. I was the only one who wasn't able to fvck her. Some of them even had threesomes with her. It was a complete and utter failure on my end. My job is to make sure that a situation like that never happens again, and that I can crush it in the future every single time.

Sorry for this wall of text lol. Just getting some thoughts on the page so that I can make sure these situations never happen again.

 

[nicksaiz65]

It seems like you understand it well. You always need to be to escalating. Showing intent is a form of escalation. If there's someone in a social circle that you want, ask her out immediately as soon as you realize you want her.

There were some epic wars for pusssy within my social circle with some women. These incidents happened mainly in the early to mid-2010s. These were not the only incidents but they were the ones that stand out the most.

Woman A: She was a friend of my closest friend's girlfriend (now wife). Multiple men from our social circle tried to have sex with her and went to big lengths to do so. One guy in the social circle when drunk got in her bed and refused to leave it. She ended up sleeping elsewhere and not having sex with him. I was a little subtler in my moves on her but didn't see a lot of interest. Woman A ended up having sex with no men from our social circle, moving away from the city, ceasing her friendship with my closest friend's girlfriend (now wife), and getting married to some other guy in the city where she moved many years later. She didn't get married until her early 30s. Woman A was a height queen as well. Despite being 5'1", she refused all men under 6'0" in this city.

Woman B: In 2013, Woman B went out on 3 dates with one of my friends from his efforts on Match. No sex, only a make out. A fade out happens after date 3. A few months later, this friend moves to a new apartment building. He's walking away from the management office after turning in paperwork related to the move in condition of the apartment when he sees this woman in the building. Since he has already planned a move in party, he approaches her and tells her about the move in party he has planned in a few days. She comes to this party. At this party, no less than 5 men from my main social circle try to hit on her because she has big tits. The friend who had the Match dates with her was expecting to close the deal with her at the party but didn't. He was not happy about that. I didn't get with her. She was very cold and distant in the approach. Dull personality. She ended up getting with one of my other friends (not the guy who had Match dates with her) a few months after this party. They are still together 8 years later.

Woman C: Woman C was a co-worker of my closest friend for many years. Both Woman C and my closest friend have now left that company, which is a large company. Anyway, I saw Woman C on my friend's Facebook as far back as late 2011. I had interest in her as soon as I saw her because she is thin. I told myself that if I ever saw her in-person, I would approach her and run serious game on her. Over a year later, there was a party that she attended. I came at her strongly and with massive intent. She rebuffed my intent, showing no interest. At this party, 3 men from the social circle hit on her. She ended up getting with 1 of them, slightly in part to my closest friend endorsing some other guy in the circle. I was flabbergasted my closest friend would put in a good word for this other guy over me when both of us were single and looking at the time. My closest friend didn't know that I crushed on her from seeing her on his Facebook. Years later, I find out that Woman C tends to be more prudish and likely would have been put off by my quick attempts to escalate and get the bang. The other guy from the social circle who got with Woman C ended up putting a ring on her.

That's very interesting that you mention directly asking out a woman from the social circle as soon as you realize that you want her.

Based on my previous failures, I'd say that I agree with that you need to do that. To show that intent right away so you don't end up in the ninth circle of friendzone hell lol.

I guess the only point of confusion for me would be against the final tenet of Roosh's Social Circle Philosophy. He says that social circle game can often be drawn out, for weeks and months. And you're just showing value to other people in the circle, then waiting to see if girls select you for romance.

What do you think about that? I imagine that you'd disagree with Roosh in this instance, because as you said, if you like a woman within the circle you need to go about making your intentions clear right away.

I understand the logic, but I'm not sure if I like the idea of waiting for Choosing Signals. Just like @Scars said, if you don't make your intentions clear, then someone else within the group will. And then they'll end up pulling and fvcking her. That's how you end up with epic fails like the one I had with the girl previously. Waiting for Choosing Signals is quite slow, and you can end up with the same problem that I mentioned earlier. Choosing signals also feel limiting, and the whole point of Game is to give you that freedom, in my opinion of course. I want to have this stuff completely under my control instead of simply getting "lucky."

And the other question that I would think of is, is “coming on too strong” a thing at all? Should I be worried about that? It’s very difficult to know where the balance of that, and not ending up in the friend zone while all the other guys in the circle fvck her. Still working on implementing the optimal game strategy for that.

The last thing that I could think of off the top of my head would be the rejections. As I've experienced myself, you definitely get rejected in cases like this. Should I react the same way that I do with Cold Approach? Just say f it and completely move on?

@Scars also mentioned some very good ways of showing intent. What are your favorites? What are your favorite ways of asking a woman out?

So there’s the brain dump haha. Just getting all these thoughts onto the page to be successful later in the future.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I always assume 1)I am an attractive, valuable guy, and 2) she wants to hook up with me and act accordingly. Even when they reject, its a soft rejection of an attractive, valuable guy they like but isnt their type, but they're flattered by the offer anyway. Maybe this doesnt work for everyone. Assuming the sale is a common mindset though. You should not be visualizing failure and rejection so much. In your situation, you are the key to a social scene as a musician. That is bringing a lot to the table. Isolate her a little bit after the show when she is in your element and see what she is down for, either that night or later.

For the women you have had success with, if any, how did that play out? Did you approach and they said yes, or has it been mostly them approaching you?

One of the best things an old poster used to say is to find out which category of male the woman as put you in and comport to that in the short term (assuming its a category that is tolerable). The irony of being put in the beta boyfriend box is that often you have to wait for them to chase you and your value as a boyfriend because their view of your neediness is so elevated that you can't approach at all. Ringo Starr category plays it differently than John Lennon category. However, your mindset should always be that you're John (or at least Paul lol).

Assuming the sale is definitely a solid frame.

So just ask them out on a straight up date, or isolate after a planned social event. It’s just as Roosh V says.

Ive banged 12 women in my life. These were all from either Cold Approach or I received VERY strong choosing signals from a girl in a group I was in. As in, blatant. When the girl is lukewarm, or just being normal and friendly within the circle, I’ve flubbed it quite often lol.

 

[nicksaiz65]

So @Scars and @SW15 ,
I guess a more concise way to put it is.
I always found it more difficult to show the intent, or use the right strategy in situations like this.
In a cold approach, I often go direct. Go straight up and tell her "I thought you were cute."
This eliminates most of the doubt of showing intent. I find that it is more difficult to get the Bang and do this within the social circle.

 

[SW15]

Agreed. It's very hard to do any bar/club approaching without a wing man. Most girls don't go to bars alone, so you need someone to distract the pact leader, which is often times the heavy-set feminist. LOL

Since I never had a good wing man, that led me to being a primarily non-bar approaching guy.

That's very interesting that you mention directly asking out a woman from the social circle as soon as you realize that you want her.

Based on my previous failures, I'd say that I agree with that you need to do that. To show that intent right away so you don't end up in the ninth circle of friendzone hell lol.

I guess the only point of confusion for me would be against the final tenet of Roosh's Social Circle Philosophy. He says that social circle game can often be drawn out, for weeks and months. And you're just showing value to other people in the circle, then waiting to see if girls select you for romance.

What do you think about that? I imagine that you'd disagree with Roosh in this instance, because as you said, if you like a woman within the circle you need to go about making your intentions clear right away.

I understand the logic, but I'm not sure if I like the idea of waiting for Choosing Signals. Just like @Scars said, if you don't make your intentions clear, then someone else within the group will. And then they'll end up pulling and fvcking her. That's how you end up with epic fails like the one I had with the girl previously. Waiting for Choosing Signals is quite slow, and you can end up with the same problem that I mentioned earlier. Choosing signals also feel limiting, and the whole point of Game is to give you that freedom, in my opinion of course. I want to have this stuff completely under my control instead of simply getting "lucky."

And the other question that I would think of is, is “coming on too strong” a thing at all? Should I be worried about that? It’s very difficult to know where the balance of that, and not ending up in the friend zone while all the other guys in the circle fvck her. Still working on implementing the optimal game strategy for that.

The last thing that I could think of off the top of my head would be the rejections. As I've experienced myself, you definitely get rejected in cases like this. Should I react the same way that I do with Cold Approach? Just say f it and completely move on?

What are your favorites? What are your favorite ways of asking a woman out?

Roosh was an approacher more than a social circle guy anyway. His expertise was approaching but not social circle.

As I'll say below, as soon as you identify a woman you are interested in, ask her out. Either for drinks or some mutually enjoyable activity. This does not require a lot of thought. It does not matter whether it is a stranger approacher or a social circle scenario.

With the rejections, say F it and move on. Though in my example above, I'm not all that keen on ever seeing Woman C. I only have to see her at most 2-4 times a year. In 2021, I only saw her at 2 social circle events. It is a reminder of her rejection. However, if I had gotten a date with her, she would not have liked my escalation tactics though. Prudish reputation.

The pusssy wars in my main social group during the early to mid 2010s left some hurt feelings and have made some social interactions more strained.

I guess a more concise way to put it is.
I always found it more difficult to show the intent, or use the right strategy in situations like this.
In a cold approach, I often go direct. Go straight up and tell her "I thought you were cute."
This eliminates most of the doubt of showing intent. I find that it is more difficult to get the Bang and do this within the social circle.

Always show intent. If you find her attractive, ask her out. Women know why men talk to them.

 

[Scars]

So @Scars and @SW15 ,
I guess a more concise way to put it is.
I always found it more difficult to show the intent, or use the right strategy in situations like this.
In a cold approach, I often go direct. Go straight up and tell her "I thought you were cute."
This eliminates most of the doubt of showing intent. I find that it is more difficult to get the Bang and do this within the social circle.

One of the best things I learned to do was the art of guiding a conversation into a direction that benefits me. I could already have a compliment or joke lined up, and I can guide the convo in a way that let's me deliver what I want to say without it being forced or awkward.

I'm trying desperately to think of an example, but I think it's more of an opportunity thing. Taking the current topic and somehow morphing it into another topic that lets you control the frame. This requires a little bit of skill, but can be mastered if you practice it.